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Author Topic: Calling all Antiochian members! What would worry you about joining the OCA?  (Read 4372 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tamara
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« on: June 22, 2009, 02:42:34 PM »

I know this topic may be jumping the gun a bit but please share your concerns or worries if the Antiochian
Archdiocese began a process to merge with the OCA?

Be honest and don't hold back. Leaders in the OCA want to know what you think.
Your concerns will be heard and answered in a future conference this year.

Send me a personal message if you don't want your concerns to be made public on the forum.

Thank you, Tamara
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 03:07:55 PM by Tamara » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2009, 02:56:37 PM »

I know this topic may be jumping the gun a bit but please share your concerns or worries if the Antiochian
Archdiocese began a process to merge with the OCA?

Be honest and don't hold back. Leaders in the OCA want to know what you think.
Your concerns will be heard and answered in a future conference this year.

Thank you, Tamara


Now, with Met. Jonah, not much.  I would worry about the WRO vicarate.
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2009, 03:23:25 PM »

I know this topic may be jumping the gun a bit but please share your concerns or worries if the Antiochian
Archdiocese began a process to merge with the OCA?

Be honest and don't hold back. Leaders in the OCA want to know what you think.
Your concerns will be heard and answered in a future conference this year.

Thank you, Tamara


Now, with Met. Jonah, not much.  I would worry about the WRO vicarate.

I agree with ialmysry.
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2009, 03:28:30 PM »

Nothing at all.  May God hasten the day.
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 04:16:31 PM »

I would be very happy if the OCA and AOCONA would merge..I have issues with the Western Rite but that is probably because of my own ignorance.My father was Episcopalian and he quit going to church when they changed the 1928BCP. I wonder if the Western Rite could have been his impetus to convert to Orthodoxy?
Anything has to be better than the foolishness going on now. I must also say if you asked me two or three years ago if we would ever be having this discussion about the OCA I would say that you have inhaled way too much incense.
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2009, 04:32:11 PM »

Honestly, I would miss chanting vespers and Orthros in the Byzantine style.  OCA does everything in Russian style, which, to me, sounds like a typewriter.  Nothing wrong with it, I just think that the hymnography of hte Church is better expressed by Byzantine chant.  Plus, the OCA goes through its services so quickly.  Whereas I celebrate Vespers at my Antiochian parish, it takes an hour, OCA it takes 30 minutes.  I wish I were kidding but I"m not.  I'm just more at home with the Byzantine Liturgies than the OCA style ones.  And that, as shallow as it may seem, is what is going to keep me from bolting.  MHO.
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2009, 04:35:35 PM »

Hopefully those parishes "from" the AOCONA could keep their style of doing Liturgies. I am assuming this deal does not include Metropolitan Phillip with his penchant for demanding uniformity!
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2009, 04:42:19 PM »

Is this actively being pursued? I know nothing about such matters but want to learn more. Google searches haven't led to much for me yet. What is going on? A move toward stronger unity seems wonderful.
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2009, 04:51:56 PM »

Honestly, I would miss chanting vespers and Orthros in the Byzantine style.  OCA does everything in Russian style, which, to me, sounds like a typewriter.  Nothing wrong with it, I just think that the hymnography of hte Church is better expressed by Byzantine chant.  Plus, the OCA goes through its services so quickly.  Whereas I celebrate Vespers at my Antiochian parish, it takes an hour, OCA it takes 30 minutes.  I wish I were kidding but I"m not.  I'm just more at home with the Byzantine Liturgies than the OCA style ones.  And that, as shallow as it may seem, is what is going to keep me from bolting.  MHO.

Even though I'm not Antiochian, I know how you feel about the different styles of Liturgical practices. I too prefer the Byzantine, however I really don't think the OCA would demand the Antiochians give up their tradition. In fact, in Met. Jonah's address, (or maybe it was someone else, or something he said a few weeks ago) that he'd have no problem with having an Arab/Byzantine tradition. Considering he mentioned St. Tikhon a number of times, I wouldn't worry about it. Just from a practical perspective, it would be impossible to impose the OCA style in anything under 20 years, because there are just so many adults for whom it's basically too late to learn anything else with any amount of proficiency.

 Considering the OCA has a plurality of styles as well, (even though they all come from the Russian flavor) it's not something I'd be concerned about in a real merger of the two jurisdictions. Now if the Antiochians were to go "under" the OCA, then that might be different, but Met. Jonah was pretty clear I thought, he was suggesting a "merger". But that's just my take.

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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2009, 04:54:57 PM »

Is this actively being pursued? I know nothing about such matters but want to learn more. Google searches haven't led to much for me yet. What is going on? A move toward stronger unity seems wonderful.

Check the OCA website and ancient faith radio for all the details. Met. Jonah suggested in a speech over the weekend that the Antiochians, if they wished could "join" or merge with the OCA to have a united American Church body, or at least the beginnings of one. And yes, it is a wonderful move, and if it were done, I'd be jumping ship to that new Church body from my own jurisdiction.
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2009, 04:59:35 PM »

Is this actively being pursued? I know nothing about such matters but want to learn more. Google searches haven't led to much for me yet. What is going on? A move toward stronger unity seems wonderful.

Check the OCA website and ancient faith radio for all the details. Met. Jonah suggested in a speech over the weekend that the Antiochians, if they wished could "join" or merge with the OCA to have a united American Church body, or at least the beginnings of one. And yes, it is a wonderful move, and if it were done, I'd be jumping ship to that new Church body from my own jurisdiction.

Thanks for the direction for more info. Googling for current news about it wasn't getting me anywhere. I think this is very exciting. I'm off to read/learn more.
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2009, 05:07:06 PM »

Perhaps I misunderstood the question of the thread.  I thought this was addressed to individuals who may consider bolting the AOCNA and join the OCA, not about a merger of the two bodies, eccleisastical and adminsitrative wise.  I'm sure that if such ever did happen, the Metropolitan, whomever that would be, would allow for Russian Typicon Churches and Greek Typicon churches to exist within the same archdiocese/patriarchate.  But if this question was addressed to individuals who may quit of their own accord, I answered the question already.
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2009, 05:11:49 PM »

Honestly, I would miss chanting vespers and Orthros in the Byzantine style.  OCA does everything in Russian style, which, to me, sounds like a typewriter.  Nothing wrong with it, I just think that the hymnography of hte Church is better expressed by Byzantine chant.  Plus, the OCA goes through its services so quickly.  Whereas I celebrate Vespers at my Antiochian parish, it takes an hour, OCA it takes 30 minutes.  I wish I were kidding but I"m not.  I'm just more at home with the Byzantine Liturgies than the OCA style ones.  And that, as shallow as it may seem, is what is going to keep me from bolting.  MHO.

There is NOTHING shallow about how we worship. Your concerns are very valid. Thank you.
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2009, 05:12:52 PM »


Now, with Met. Jonah, not much.  I would worry about the WRO vicarate.

Good point. thanks Isa!
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2009, 05:18:35 PM »

Perhaps I misunderstood the question of the thread.  I thought this was addressed to individuals who may consider bolting the AOCNA and join the OCA, not about a merger of the two bodies, eccleisastical and adminsitrative wise.  I'm sure that if such ever did happen, the Metropolitan, whomever that would be, would allow for Russian Typicon Churches and Greek Typicon churches to exist within the same archdiocese/patriarchate.  But if this question was addressed to individuals who may quit of their own accord, I answered the question already.

I should have been more clear. The OCA leaders want to know how Antiochian members feel about a merger of the two bodies because individual concerns are important to address if we really want unity. I was just thinking, it would probably be a good idea to ask the same question from OCA member's perspectives.
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2009, 05:38:38 PM »

I know it's been said, but I wanted to be more specific: my concern would be that come of the clergy and laity of the OCA would place ideological barriers between the WRO and the rest of the jurisdiction. That's wouldn't enough for me to completely object to a union between the OCA and the Antiochians though.

I would love for Antiochian parishes to adopt more organic practices that I've experienced in OCA parishes, such as more Litanies of the Deceased by request, adding prayers during the liturgy for immediate situations (for people in financial crisis, for fathers this past Father's Day, etc.), and other acts of spontaneous devotion and piety that roots a parish in the lives of its parishioners.
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2009, 05:48:35 PM »

I would love for Antiochian parishes to adopt more organic practices that I've experienced in OCA parishes, such as more Litanies of the Deceased by request, adding prayers during the liturgy for immediate situations (for people in financial crisis, for fathers this past Father's Day, etc.), and other acts of spontaneous devotion and piety that roots a parish in the lives of its parishioners.

what are you talking about?  We say trisagions for the departed on the 9th, 40th, 1 year, etc. anniversaries of the departed after we sing "Blessed be the Name of the Lord."  Specific petitions are put in during the Great Entrance.  To go more "organic" as you suggest is to invite chaos and suddenly the service becomes people shouting their petititons from their seats (or standing places) and that is not conducive to good order in the church. 
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2009, 07:07:31 PM »

I know it's been said, but I wanted to be more specific: my concern would be that come of the clergy and laity of the OCA would place ideological barriers between the WRO and the rest of the jurisdiction. That's wouldn't enough for me to completely object to a union between the OCA and the Antiochians though.

I would love for Antiochian parishes to adopt more organic practices that I've experienced in OCA parishes, such as more Litanies of the Deceased by request, adding prayers during the liturgy for immediate situations (for people in financial crisis, for fathers this past Father's Day, etc.), and other acts of spontaneous devotion and piety that roots a parish in the lives of its parishioners.

Funny, the two OCA parishes I've been at didn't do these things, but the Antiochian parish I am at does.

Honestly, I would miss chanting vespers and Orthros in the Byzantine style.  OCA does everything in Russian style, which, to me, sounds like a typewriter.  Nothing wrong with it, I just think that the hymnography of hte Church is better expressed by Byzantine chant.  Plus, the OCA goes through its services so quickly.  Whereas I celebrate Vespers at my Antiochian parish, it takes an hour, OCA it takes 30 minutes.  I wish I were kidding but I"m not.  I'm just more at home with the Byzantine Liturgies than the OCA style ones.  And that, as shallow as it may seem, is what is going to keep me from bolting.  MHO.

Once OCA parish it was a half hour, another it was almost as long as a liturgy (vigil).  And the OCA parished both did some 'Byzantine' (called Greek).
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2009, 07:54:45 PM »

I would think one of the biggest concerns would be: Who would my diocesan bishop be? People in parishes now under, say, Bishop Basil may not like the idea of having a new, unfamiliar arch-pastor.
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2009, 07:58:08 PM »

While we are dreaming.....

There would have to be a reorganization of bishops, so there would be no overlap.  Someone here did a study on that somewhere.

Recently I saw something about a ROCOR bishop who has as part of his title, besides his diocese "defender of the Old Rite" (he is the touchpoint for the Old Ritualists in ROCOR).  There is something like that should be had, as Met. Jonah quoted St. Tikhon in his recent statement.

So St. Nicholas, St. Raphail's see, should be set aside for a bishop who would be "defender of the Antiochian Usage and Arabic tradition."  Said bishop would be the one to approve the Arabic liturgical texts, and serve as the Holy Synod's overseer of Antiochian liturgical usage, stating what was ligitimate and what was liturgical abuse, and speak up and defend the Antiochian customs and tradition.  Said bishop would also advise on relations with the Arab Orthodox abroad in general and Antioch in particular.  Also with the Melkite and Maronites, and the advisor on the issue of reunion with the Syriac Orthodox, here and in Syria.   Said bishop could also be charged with mission to Muslims, here and abroad.

If necessry, and possible, a see can be set aside for the defender of "Jerusalmite usage" can be set up.  I wouldn't recommend Ben Lomand.

In Boston, a see for an Albanian bishop should be set up who would continue the tradition of St. Fan Noli, approve Albanian texts, missions to Albanian Muslims, etc.

In Sitka, the See should be charged with missions to the Amerindians, defender of the use of their languages in the rites, etc.

San Francisco should have a bishop who is the "defendor of the Great Russian Usage and Tradition," a bishop in Pensylvania should be the "defender of the Carpartho-Russian, Rusyn and Ruthenian Usage and Traditions."  This is important: doing this both preserves the place of the Russians and the returnees from the Vatican in the history of Orthodoxy in North America, and cuts the OCA as a whole free to develop organically, and allay fears of the non-slavs, and in the case of the Ukrainians, slavs.

The Romanians can stay put and keep Detroit, and act as defender of the Romanian usage, etc.

We would have two bishops in Canada, Bp. (not auxiliary) Alexander should stay in Montreal (or more to Quebec City, it's much better) to serve the French (not only in Canada but in USA), and Bp. Serapim in Ottawa to make sure that Canada is not relegated to an afterthought by the Holy Synod of the new OCA. Speaking of which, the opportunity might be taken to rename it the "Orthodox Church in North America," or to think about autocephaly for Canada  (although I think the guarenteed sees for the French and English Canadians, and, if Ukrainians are enticed to join our common cause, then Vancouver can be restored as a see for the Ukrainians too).

The OCA's exarch in Mexico can serve for the Hispanics, but that would also entail dealing with the seperate Antiochian Archdiocese.

And looking towards the future: Chicago could be set aside of the Serbs: we have the largest number of them here. Or the Orthodox Poles, if they become numerous enough in this country.  We have more Poles than anyone except Warsaw.

The last of course, I expect, would be the Greeks.  They can have New York.

Of course, these assignments to certain thrones are not exclusive.  Just because Brooklyn is the Arab See, doesnn't mean an Arab can't be a bishop to another diocesan see, etc. It just makes sure SOMEONE is doing these tasks, and SOMEONE is looking out for the Arab Orthodox, the Albanian Orthodox, the Romanian Orthodox, etc. and make sure that the Russain Orthodox and CR Orthodox are not too over powering.

As for the WRO, perhaps, if the merger were to happen, Wichita should be groomed as a WRO bishop.


Criticisms?
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2009, 08:00:14 PM »

I would think one of the biggest concerns would be: Who would my diocesan bishop be? People in parishes now under, say, Bishop Basil may not like the idea of having a new, unfamiliar arch-pastor.

LOL.  Do they like the idea of an old, all too familiar Ueber-pastor?
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2009, 08:30:55 PM »

Funny, the two OCA parishes I've been at didn't do these things, but the Antiochian parish I am at does.

Maybe it's geography. The OCA parishes I've attended while visiting home do the things I mentioned, but the religious non-Orthodox around here seem to be pretty traditional and grounded (the rosary on the rear-view mirror and getting tall decorative votives at Meijer types). The Antiochian parishes I've been to at school seem kind of hands-off by comparison, but the non-Orthodox there are very much influenced by the Reformed tradition (or are inter/non-denominational influenced; "minimalistic"). For example, there the closest Catholic parish looks like an auditorium.

Well, my other concern still stands, says me, trying to stay OT.  Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2009, 09:12:30 PM »

While we are dreaming.....

There would have to be a reorganization of bishops, so there would be no overlap.  Someone here did a study on that somewhere.

Recently I saw something about a ROCOR bishop who has as part of his title, besides his diocese "defender of the Old Rite" (he is the touchpoint for the Old Ritualists in ROCOR).  There is something like that should be had, as Met. Jonah quoted St. Tikhon in his recent statement.

So St. Nicholas, St. Raphail's see, should be set aside for a bishop who would be "defender of the Antiochian Usage and Arabic tradition."  Said bishop would be the one to approve the Arabic liturgical texts, and serve as the Holy Synod's overseer of Antiochian liturgical usage, stating what was ligitimate and what was liturgical abuse, and speak up and defend the Antiochian customs and tradition.  Said bishop would also advise on relations with the Arab Orthodox abroad in general and Antioch in particular.  Also with the Melkite and Maronites, and the advisor on the issue of reunion with the Syriac Orthodox, here and in Syria.   Said bishop could also be charged with mission to Muslims, here and abroad.

If necessry, and possible, a see can be set aside for the defender of "Jerusalmite usage" can be set up.  I wouldn't recommend Ben Lomand.

In Boston, a see for an Albanian bishop should be set up who would continue the tradition of St. Fan Noli, approve Albanian texts, missions to Albanian Muslims, etc.

In Sitka, the See should be charged with missions to the Amerindians, defender of the use of their languages in the rites, etc.

San Francisco should have a bishop who is the "defendor of the Great Russian Usage and Tradition," a bishop in Pensylvania should be the "defender of the Carpartho-Russian, Rusyn and Ruthenian Usage and Traditions."  This is important: doing this both preserves the place of the Russians and the returnees from the Vatican in the history of Orthodoxy in North America, and cuts the OCA as a whole free to develop organically, and allay fears of the non-slavs, and in the case of the Ukrainians, slavs.

The Romanians can stay put and keep Detroit, and act as defender of the Romanian usage, etc.

We would have two bishops in Canada, Bp. (not auxiliary) Alexander should stay in Montreal (or more to Quebec City, it's much better) to serve the French (not only in Canada but in USA), and Bp. Serapim in Ottawa to make sure that Canada is not relegated to an afterthought by the Holy Synod of the new OCA. Speaking of which, the opportunity might be taken to rename it the "Orthodox Church in North America," or to think about autocephaly for Canada  (although I think the guarenteed sees for the French and English Canadians, and, if Ukrainians are enticed to join our common cause, then Vancouver can be restored as a see for the Ukrainians too).

The OCA's exarch in Mexico can serve for the Hispanics, but that would also entail dealing with the seperate Antiochian Archdiocese.

And looking towards the future: Chicago could be set aside of the Serbs: we have the largest number of them here. Or the Orthodox Poles, if they become numerous enough in this country.  We have more Poles than anyone except Warsaw.

The last of course, I expect, would be the Greeks.  They can have New York.

Of course, these assignments to certain thrones are not exclusive.  Just because Brooklyn is the Arab See, doesnn't mean an Arab can't be a bishop to another diocesan see, etc. It just makes sure SOMEONE is doing these tasks, and SOMEONE is looking out for the Arab Orthodox, the Albanian Orthodox, the Romanian Orthodox, etc. and make sure that the Russain Orthodox and CR Orthodox are not too over powering.

As for the WRO, perhaps, if the merger were to happen, Wichita should be groomed as a WRO bishop.


Criticisms?


Excellent ideas all. Although I would prefer setting a phase-out date in the future for bishops responsible for ethnic groups (+WRO), I imagine we could revisit this issue in a decade or two.
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2009, 09:35:30 PM »

Honestly, I would miss chanting vespers and Orthros in the Byzantine style.  OCA does everything in Russian style, which, to me, sounds like a typewriter.  Nothing wrong with it, I just think that the hymnography of hte Church is better expressed by Byzantine chant.  Plus, the OCA goes through its services so quickly.  Whereas I celebrate Vespers at my Antiochian parish, it takes an hour, OCA it takes 30 minutes.  I wish I were kidding but I"m not.  I'm just more at home with the Byzantine Liturgies than the OCA style ones.  And that, as shallow as it may seem, is what is going to keep me from bolting.  MHO.

An hour ?? I left the OCA for Rocor. We go from 5:00 pm to about 8 pm on Sat.... [Bunch of sisies   Wink ]

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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2009, 11:14:43 AM »

Just for perspective, in my experience and region the OCA parishes seem to be the most traditional as far as services and Liturgies go, in all cases they're are usually the longest. I think it just varies from parish to parish and region to region and I don't think between the Antiochians and the OCA either is more Liturgically traditional. Although, just speaking from my personal experience I'd say the OCA is. But I think that just shows they're probably pretty even as far as statistics go. Again, just talking about length and not cutting services down, not about Byzantine vs Russian style, just "time" wise, the OCA always seems to be the longest. But obviously that's not across the board.
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2009, 11:36:56 AM »

I attended an OCA parish in NJ a few times just after Christmas. The services were much shorter than what I'm used to here, despite the fact that the silent prayers were read aloud.
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 11:47:50 AM »

I doubt I would worry about anything. I will always want to be Antiochian but OCA will always be strongly considered......Having now read the thread in more depth, a merger may be a good thing but both liturgical traditions should be respected.
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2009, 11:57:46 AM »

Thanks Isa, I copied your suggestions about organizing the sees.

Rowan, it sounds like, depending on where one lives, this type of prayer may be happening in both churches from the remarks posted here. I have never heard of these types of prayers happening in Orthodox parishes. If I were to hazard a guess, I would suggest they happen in parishes with many former evangelicals regardless of jurisdiction. I think the synod of bishops would have to decide if they were appropriate part of Orthodox services.

As far as lengths of services, I bet this point varies widely within the OCA itself, but I will mention it.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 12:01:47 PM by Tamara » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2009, 12:01:44 PM »

Honestly, I would miss chanting vespers and Orthros in the Byzantine style.  OCA does everything in Russian style, which, to me, sounds like a typewriter.  Nothing wrong with it, I just think that the hymnography of hte Church is better expressed by Byzantine chant.  Plus, the OCA goes through its services so quickly.  Whereas I celebrate Vespers at my Antiochian parish, it takes an hour, OCA it takes 30 minutes.  I wish I were kidding but I"m not.  I'm just more at home with the Byzantine Liturgies than the OCA style ones.  And that, as shallow as it may seem, is what is going to keep me from bolting.  MHO.
Perhaps it's just the parish near you. Mine has about half Byzantine, half Russian, and we prefer to use music written by Americans whenever possible.
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2009, 12:52:10 PM »

Honestly, I would miss chanting vespers and Orthros in the Byzantine style.  OCA does everything in Russian style, which, to me, sounds like a typewriter.  Nothing wrong with it, I just think that the hymnography of hte Church is better expressed by Byzantine chant.  Plus, the OCA goes through its services so quickly.  Whereas I celebrate Vespers at my Antiochian parish, it takes an hour, OCA it takes 30 minutes.  I wish I were kidding but I"m not.  I'm just more at home with the Byzantine Liturgies than the OCA style ones.  And that, as shallow as it may seem, is what is going to keep me from bolting.  MHO.
Perhaps it's just the parish near you. Mine has about half Byzantine, half Russian, and we prefer to use music written by Americans whenever possible.

Could be, though I think part of it for our parish is also that the choir is not a consistent entity.  Even those who don't have conflicts in work schedules or prior commitments often have other distractions (one of the four altos is also something akin to church secretary and she often has administrative things to do while I end up having to cart a screaming one year old out into the bookstore for the umpteenth time).  Because our choir has a core of maybe four people who are consistently there and all but one of us is an American convert, we tend to lean toward Russian-styled music because it's easier to learn.  I love the haunting beauty of the Byzantine style, though, and I'd love to see our parish use it more often.
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2009, 01:11:41 PM »

Or the Orthodox Poles, if they become numerous enough in this country.  We have more Poles than anyone except Warsaw.

That's pretty funny. Luckily you don't have any Diocese of CoP in your country. Actually the great majority of CoP's members are Belarusian/Ukrainian/Lemko nationality or have such roots. There are a few true Poles. The former Polish citizens feel good in Belarusian/UOC/OCA/ACROD and even GOA Parishes and they do not need any Bishop for defending their rite if such a thing exists.
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2009, 08:19:21 PM »

If I were to hazard a guess, I would suggest they happen in parishes with many former evangelicals regardless of jurisdiction.

The OCA parish I've gone to that pray as such is an old, established parish with mostly cradle Orthodox. In my experience with a parish full of former Protestants/Catholics, it would seem that they are less likely to do such a thing (more likely to mention Father's day in the homily, for example). Whether this attitude is a good (and therefore really traditional*) or not is arguable to me (and I converted).

*By "traditional" I mean "full of traditions", not a movement or something.
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« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2009, 06:25:01 AM »

My only worries would be politcal - who would be the leaders, because you know there'd be a war over this issue which, I might add, is in direct contrast to Jese' life of humility and servanthood. May the Lord have mercy!
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« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2009, 06:58:14 AM »

Or the Orthodox Poles, if they become numerous enough in this country.  We have more Poles than anyone except Warsaw.

That's pretty funny. Luckily you don't have any Diocese of CoP in your country.

You have your hands full with Brazil.  Talk about neo-pagan mission fields.

Quote
Actually the great majority of CoP's members are Belarusian/Ukrainian/Lemko nationality or have such roots. There are a few true Poles. The former Polish citizens feel good in Belarusian/UOC/OCA/ACROD and even GOA Parishes and they do not need any Bishop for defending their rite if such a thing exists.

LOL. I didn't want to pontificate on who is a "real Pole."

As I think has been discussed, there had been a few WRO Polish Churches.  It would be nice is the Polish National Catholic Church could be induced to go that route.
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« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2009, 07:21:12 AM »

You have your hands full with Brazil.  Talk about neo-pagan mission fields.

So your dreamed Church of America wouldn't be only in the USA and Canada but in South America also?


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LOL. I didn't want to pontificate on who is a "real Pole."

There are some who try to. They don't accept EO Christians as Poles. It won't make sense to create a Polish Byzantine Bishop's See.

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As I think has been discussed, there had been a few WRO Polish Churches.  It would be nice is the Polish National Catholic Church could be induced to go that route.

Yes, there had been. One went to the MP and switched to Byzantine Rite and several went to a branch of Nestorians. I think that PNCC's believers would have better relationship with WR Antiochians or Russians that with the Byzantine Bishop from Poland.
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