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Author Topic: Is Jesus the God himself?  (Read 2645 times) Average Rating: 0
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theotokos
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« on: June 12, 2009, 04:48:05 AM »

Some cults believe that Jesus Christ was the God, but he's not the God himself. what does orthodoxy think about that.
Father: for my Father is greater than I.(joh 14:28)
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 05:19:52 AM »

Some cults believe that Jesus Christ was the God, but he's not the God himself. what does orthodoxy think about that.
Father: for my Father is greater than I.(joh 14:28)
Have you read the Nicene Creed?  That formal statement of faith sums up our doctrine on Christ's divinity pretty well.

From the Creed:
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-Begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God; begotten not made; of one essence with the Father; by Whom all things were made;
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Dan-Romania
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2009, 06:23:48 AM »

Yes , He is.
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 09:11:34 AM »

Fr. Thomas Hopko did a great job on this very thing. You should check out his podcasts on Ancient Faith Radio.






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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 10:21:25 AM »

Fr. Thomas Hopko did a great job on this very thing. You should check out his podcasts on Ancient Faith Radio.






Jnorm888

Indeed!  I'm about halfway through Fr. Tom's "The Names of Jesus" podcasts and just finished the first part of "Jesus-God".  These have been incredibly enlightening.
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2009, 10:28:26 AM »

The Son Jesus Christ is God in Himself. The Father is God in Himself. The Spirit is God in Himself. All three are completely God, and do not need anyone else to make themselves complete. They are not pieces of God, yet all three make up God. This is the mystery of the Trinity.
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2009, 10:40:24 AM »

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2009, 01:28:01 AM »

Some cults believe that Jesus Christ was the God, but he's not the God himself.
I don't know about that. Are you referring perhaps to JW? I thought that JW and Judaism maintain that the Christian Trinity is  both incomprehensible and a violation of the Bible's teaching that God is one.
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ChristusDominus
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2009, 01:44:30 AM »

Some cults believe that Jesus Christ was the God, but he's not the God himself. what does orthodoxy think about that.
Father: for my Father is greater than I.(joh 14:28)
I thinks this sums it up:

Philippians 2:5-8 (New International Reader's Version)

 5 You should think in the same way Christ Jesus does.

 6 In his very nature he was God.
      But he did not think that being equal with God was something he should hold on to.
 7 Instead, he made himself nothing.
      He took on the very nature of a servant.
      He was made in human form.
 8 He appeared as a man.
      He came down to the lowest level.
      He obeyed God completely, even though it led to his death.
         In fact, he died on a cross.

John 14:8-9 (New International Version)

 8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

 9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 01:47:28 AM by ChristusDominus » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2009, 08:34:13 AM »

Some cults believe that Jesus Christ was the God, but he's not the God himself.
I don't know about that. Are you referring perhaps to JW? I thought that JW and Judaism maintain that the Christian Trinity is  both incomprehensible and a violation of the Bible's teaching that God is one.

Maybe Zeinab needs the abbreviation "JW" to be deciphered. Stanley refers to Jehovah's Witnesses, a group founded by C.T. Russell in the 1890-s and currently having its headquarters in Brooklyn, USA. They are, indeed, teaching that the Trinity is a distortion of "true" Christianity. Very much like Arius taught in the 4th century, the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the Logos, the Son of God, is not God himself but, rather, "a god," a being Who has a "heavenly" nature like angels, but is distinct from God in that He was created by God. They also claim that the biblical Archangel Michael and the Logos (Christ) are the same person.

This is a very dangerous heresy because it goes against the very foundation of Christianity, which is the Incarnation. We believe that God Himself became man and lived among us, and STILL lives among us ("to the very end of the age," Matthew 28:20), even though we, because of our sins, cannot "physically" see Him. Our salvation completely depends on this, on the fact that God became man and remains a resurrected man, because Christ in Himself resurrected, and sanctified, and lifted to the very highest Heaven the entire humanity, the very NATURE of the human race. If He is not God, if any person other than one of the three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven, then all our faith is non-sensical. As professor Anton Kartashev writes in his book, "Ecumenical Councils," "if Christ is not God and the mystery of God becoming man is not the truth, then Christianity is superfluous and all we need is a kind of moralistic "reasonable" religion, like the Judaistic or Islamic piety."

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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2009, 01:31:54 PM »



Fr. Thomas Hopko on "How we speak about God":


Part 1:
http://audio.ancientfaith.com/hopko/stt_2008-07-10_pc.mp3


Part 2:
http://audio.ancientfaith.com/hopko/stt_2008-07-14_pc.mp3


Part 3:
http://audio.ancientfaith.com/hopko/stt_2008-07-17_pc.mp3


Part 4:
http://audio.ancientfaith.com/hopko/stt_2008-07-21_pc.mp3



And "The Holy Trinity"

http://audio.ancientfaith.com/hopko/stt_2008-07-03_pc.mp3






Jnorm888
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"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2009, 01:33:56 PM »

Fr. Thomas Hopko did a great job on this very thing. You should check out his podcasts on Ancient Faith Radio.






Jnorm888

Indeed!  I'm about halfway through Fr. Tom's "The Names of Jesus" podcasts and just finished the first part of "Jesus-God".  These have been incredibly enlightening.


I agree!





Jnorm888
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http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2009, 02:33:25 PM »

I think theotokos needs simple explanations. Explaining the Trinity is no easy task, but she is a young lady that has now begun taking 'Christian baby steps'. Long, elaborate answers many just confound the situation. Just my opinion Roll Eyes
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2009, 09:22:52 PM »

I think theotokos needs simple explanations. Explaining the Trinity is no easy task, but she is a young lady that has now begun taking 'Christian baby steps'. Long, elaborate answers many just confound the situation. Just my opinion Roll Eyes

Totally agree!!! Ialmisry and the other party(-ies) - guys, could we just hold our horses here..? She asked a simple question... Sad
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 09:23:24 PM by Heorhij » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2009, 09:50:28 PM »

Such is the nature of online forum discussions...Any given issue raised is capable of being approached from different perspectives, at varying levels of depth, with different agendas...I guess there's an implicit agreement that so long as it relates to the general topic in the end, then it's okay.

For the record, I wouldn't have posted anything had this thread been located in the Convert section. The difference, as I see it, between discussing a subject raised in that section to discussing a subject raised in the Faith section is that the focus of discussion in the former should more emphatically revolve around the specific concerns of the one raising the subject.

I hope this does not come across as selfish. I do not mean it that way. I just offer as a suggestion to the moderators that maybe threads like this, even as they relate to matters of Faith, should be kept in the Convert section so long as they feel it appropriate that participants bear in mind an overriding regard to the person and circumstances of the inquirer.

With that said, I am more than happy if moderators would like to delete or move my posts if they think it disrupts the flow of the thread.
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2009, 10:20:42 PM »

I think theotokos needs simple explanations. Explaining the Trinity is no easy task, but she is a young lady that has now begun taking 'Christian baby steps'. Long, elaborate answers many just confound the situation. Just my opinion Roll Eyes

Totally agree!!! Ialmisry and the other party(-ies) - guys, could we just hold our horses here..? She asked a simple question... Sad

LOL. The Trinity is not simple in that sense.

As EA has said, threads are at various levels.  TS can ask if anything is hard or unhelpful.  I've been waiting for another post from her for some direction.
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2009, 10:25:35 PM »

LOL. The Trinity is not simple in that sense.
I know it's not easy, I said so myself. That's why we say, "It's a mystery" Roll Eyes
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There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2009, 01:35:45 AM »

You can find the answer in orthodox prayers like this one:

Oh Good Father, and the Most Holy Son and the Holy Spirit, Oh Most Holy Trinity, Oh God undivided, save me, the sinner.

In the Orthodox confession of faith (creed)

I believe in one God, the Father allmighty,..and in One Lord, Jesus Christ, ..consubstancial with the Father by whom everything was made...and in the Holy Spirit..which proceeds from the Father, and who with the Father and the Son is worshipped...


In the bible:

Whomever has seen the Son, has seen the Father, and whomever denies the Son, denies the Father too.

And in the teachings of some Saints:

"Today we celebrate in the honor of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit – one God in three Persons" St John of Kronstadt, opening words of one of his sermons in the day of Pentecost.


Jesus Christ is our God, the One and only God.
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