OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 21, 2014, 03:30:48 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Consulations began!  (Read 5896 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« on: June 08, 2009, 04:06:32 PM »

one image from Pentecost DL:



I recognise tho Hierarchs: Serbian Bishop Ireneus of Backa and Polish Bishop George of Siemiatycze.

I have not find any English info yet, though.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 04:07:49 PM by mike » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,436


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 04:21:57 PM »

Not sure I get what your point is? Are you just trying to show us a nice picture of bishops concelebrating, or is there something "more" to this? Maybe you're mad because the one bishop doesn't have on his klobuk? That certainly annoys me Wink (just kidding!)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 04:22:10 PM by Fr. Anastasios » Logged

Check out my personal website with 130+ articles: www.anastasioshudson.com

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 04:28:08 PM »

I posted the nice picture and am waiting for someone to post any English info 'bout this Tongue

That Bishop doesn't wear klobuk, never. He wears a skuphios. He might have forgotten to get it back: http://orthphoto.net/photo.php?id=28564&id_jezyk=1

Oops, I've messed his name.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 04:30:45 PM by mike » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,378


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 06:03:10 PM »

What is this from?
Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 06:06:29 PM »

from an official site of Church of Poland
http://www.orthodox.pl/glowna.HTM
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 06:09:03 PM by mike » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 09:50:31 PM »

What is this from?

It is the liturgy for the Feast of the Holy Spirit at the chapel in the Orthodox center in Geneva Switzerland. I believe this is some sort of pre meeting for the up coming meeting in Cyprus. 
Logged

Joseph
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2009, 05:24:22 AM »

It is the liturgy for the Feast of the Holy Spirit at the chapel in the Orthodox center in Geneva Switzerland. I believe this is some sort of pre meeting for the up coming meeting in Cyprus. 

Indeed it is. The problem, it's touching, it's the Orthodox diaspora. I thought you will have much more info about it than me.
http://coptreal.com/ShowSubjectEn.aspx?SID=20265
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,613



« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2009, 07:48:27 AM »

It is the liturgy for the Feast of the Holy Spirit at the chapel in the Orthodox center in Geneva Switzerland. I believe this is some sort of pre meeting for the up coming meeting in Cyprus. 

Indeed it is. The problem, it's touching, it's the Orthodox diaspora. I thought you will have much more info about it than me.
http://coptreal.com/ShowSubjectEn.aspx?SID=20265

This is interesting:
Quote
He noted that several centuries had passed after the last seventh Ecumenical Council and “there are a lot of questions that need all-church solution for the sake of strengthening unity and avoiding schisms in one Orthodox Church.”

“To settle these questions it is planned to hold the Holy and Great Council of the Eastern Orthodox Church in foreseeable future,” the priest said.

I thought the plan was always for a Pan-Orthodox Synod.  Should it become an Ecumenical Council, it would have several interesting ramifications, inside and outside the Church.  Inside, it could indeed reorganize the patriarchates.  Outside, it would of course silence the taunt of the Vatican's apologists that we can't have such a Council without Rome (the 9th Council not generally recognzied as such), and would no doubt place a wedge between us and the Vatican's Ultramontanism.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2009, 09:23:46 AM »

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&div=73

An interview with Abp Hilarion about it.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 03:08:56 PM »

something in English:
Quote
A beginning of the 4th All-Orthodox Pre-Conciliar Conference  in Chambesy near Geneva was marked with the Holy Hierarchal Liturgy which was led by Metropolitan John of Pergamum on Sunday, on the Feast of Pentecost, at the church of St. Paul The Apostle of the Orthodox Centre of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

A theme of diasporas, about which is going to be discussed, is the seven out of ten themes mentioned in a catalogue of themes of a future Great Assembly of the Orthodox Church. The other three themes left are: a question of ways of proclamation of autocephaly and autonomy, as well as the question of a dyptich, which is a rang of honorary precedence within the Orthodox Church.

The Holy Synod of Bishops brought the decision that Their Graces Bishops Irinej of Bachka and retired Atanasije of Zahumlje and Hercegovina followed by priests Gaja Gajic and Vukashin Milicevic,as a consultant, present the Serbian Orthodox Church.
After the Holy liturgy and holiday evening service, Metropolitan John of Pergamum spoke to the present people and those who take part in consultations recalling the blessing of the Holy Spirit for all the gathered and reminded of the Holy Trinity character of the Church and constitutional action of the Holy Spirit in building and preserving the unity of One, Holy, Collegiate and Apostolic Church.

A working task of this conference is analysis, eventually a progress and, finally, accepting the suggestions of preparation comissions (1990. and 1993.) on ways of organising life and mission of the Orthodox Church in areas in which Orthodoxy acts in conditions of diaspora.

source
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 03:10:08 PM by mike » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,315


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 04:19:52 PM »

The vestments that the Bishop is wearing are really beautiful. I have never seen vestments with such beautiful flowers on them before.
Logged
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,378


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 05:05:26 PM »

Shouldn't the altar have a tabernacle on it?
Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2009, 05:20:29 PM »

Shouldn't the altar have a tabernacle on it?

Maybe I made a mistake and the picture wasn't taken during the DL but on some another prayer. They might've moved it.

On the other hand, an interesting question it is.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Simayan
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate - GOA
Posts: 816



« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2009, 08:22:54 PM »

The prospect of an 8th Ecumenical Council is interesting, to say the least. Too soon to see how this will come around, but Ill be keeping my eyes open.
Logged

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2009, 08:29:03 PM »

Shouldn't the altar have a tabernacle on it?

Not if it is a chapel.
Logged

Joseph
orthodoxlurker
Supporter & Defender of Fr Ambrose (Irish Hermit) - banned
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian - NOT a phanariote
Jurisdiction: Serbian Patriarchate under siege
Posts: 1,372


al-Saabir yaraa al-Hurriyah


« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2009, 07:05:42 AM »

Photo album of the conference http://picasaweb.google.com/diacre.alexandre/IVConferencePanorthodoxePreconciliaire?authkey=Gv1sRgCPf4k7eppfHY4AE#
Logged

Curse the Pope, for he is the root and cause of these disasters! - St. Nektarios of Aegina

You don't get to circumvent your post moderation by calling out the moderators in your signature. ~Veniamin, Global Moderator
orthodoxlurker
Supporter & Defender of Fr Ambrose (Irish Hermit) - banned
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian - NOT a phanariote
Jurisdiction: Serbian Patriarchate under siege
Posts: 1,372


al-Saabir yaraa al-Hurriyah


« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2009, 09:18:53 AM »

The prospect of an 8th Ecumenical Council is interesting, to say the least. ...

You are quite right.

Quite right it would be interesting to have HMDAH Bartholomew and Mrt. Zlizlous achieve what St. Photius the Great and St. Gregory Palamas haven't managed - to convoke and convene a council that would be classified as an Ecumenical One.

What would be the heresy to combat at that council, I wonder?
Logged

Curse the Pope, for he is the root and cause of these disasters! - St. Nektarios of Aegina

You don't get to circumvent your post moderation by calling out the moderators in your signature. ~Veniamin, Global Moderator
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,613



« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2009, 09:43:26 AM »

The prospect of an 8th Ecumenical Council is interesting, to say the least. ...

You are quite right.

Quite right it would be interesting to have HMDAH Bartholomew and Mrt. Zlizlous achieve what St. Photius the Great and St. Gregory Palamas haven't managed - to convoke and convene a council that would be classified as an Ecumenical One.

What would be the heresy to combat at that council, I wonder?

LOL.  Some be careful of what they wish for, because they might get it.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2009, 09:56:05 AM »

The prospect of an 8th Ecumenical Council is interesting, to say the least. ...
What would be the heresy to combat at that council, I wonder?

It seems like this council will be more along the lines of the Council of Trullo. While no major heresy is addressed it convened to try clarify a number of confusions and questions that where being asked at the time. 
Logged

Joseph
orthodoxlurker
Supporter & Defender of Fr Ambrose (Irish Hermit) - banned
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian - NOT a phanariote
Jurisdiction: Serbian Patriarchate under siege
Posts: 1,372


al-Saabir yaraa al-Hurriyah


« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2009, 10:31:13 AM »

... to try clarify a number of confusions...

Well, you might be right, I am not sure if he looks sad for he hasn't managed to gather more bishops at DL where he served, or he is just plain confused. See:


... and questions that where being asked at the time. 

The only question that comes to my mind is the one having been asked by HG Stylianos (?), GOA bishop of Australia: "Does he think we are all stupid?"
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 10:35:33 AM by orthodoxlurker » Logged

Curse the Pope, for he is the root and cause of these disasters! - St. Nektarios of Aegina

You don't get to circumvent your post moderation by calling out the moderators in your signature. ~Veniamin, Global Moderator
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2009, 08:40:10 PM »


Haven't come across an official English translation yet but the concluding Communique from the IV Pan-Orthodox Pre-Conciliar Commission meetings held in Chambesy, Switzerland this week can be found here in Greek, Russian and French:

http://www.centreorthodoxe.org/index.php?lang=fr&smenu=smenu5&nav=secretariat3

It appears the only major outcome was to call for meetings in various "regions" of all "canonical" bishops for further discussions. Bishops of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in each region get to lead the meetings.

Next up will be further discussions on how autocephaly and autonomy are determined. Might that lead to revocations of or alterations to autocephalies and autonomies bestowed the last few decades?

Logged
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2009, 07:44:59 AM »

Thank you, Father?

Do you notice any OCA Hierarchs there?
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2009, 09:49:16 AM »


Here is a machine translation of the French edition of the Communique.

Communiqué Release

 At the invitation of His Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, following the consensus of the Primates of the beatitudes most holy Orthodox Churches, local communities, expressed at their Summit held in Phanar from 10 to 12 October 2008, the Fourth Conference panorthodoxe preconciliar met Orthodox Center of Ecumenical Patriarchate in Chambésy, Geneva, from 6 to 12 June 2009.

 They were held under the chairmanship of His Eminence Metropolitan John of Pergamon, delegate of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, with the contribution of Secretary for the preparation of the Holy and Great Council of the Orthodox Church, His Eminence Metropolitan Jeremie of Switzerland. Aux travaux de la Conférence ont participé les délégués des Eglises orthodoxes autocéphales, sur invitation de Sa Sainteté le patriarche ocuménique Bartholomaios. In the Conference was attended by delegates of the autocephalous Orthodox Churches, at the invitation of His Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew.

 The Primates of Local Orthodox Churches welcomed participants to the Conference of messages sent or forwarded by their delegates. Members of the Conference have sent letters to all the Primates of the local churches, seeking their prayers and blessings for the accomplish their task.

 In accordance with the wishes of the Primates and representatives of local Orthodox Churches expressed in the message broadcast at the end of their meeting at the Phanar (October 2008), the Fourth Conference panorthodoxe preconciliar was to examine the organization canonical of the Orthodox Diaspora.  The Conference decided that its agenda at the inaugural meeting of its work.

 The Conference reviewed the documents prepared by the Preparatory Commission interorthodoxe at its two meetings in Chambésy, ie that of 10 to 17 November 1990 and from 7 to 13 November 1993 and the document prepared by Congress canonists Chambésy met from 9 to 14 April 1995.  These documents, out, corrected and supplemented, were approved unanimously.

The Conference expressed the common desire of the Orthodox Churches to resolve the problem of organizing the Diaspora canonical Orthodox ecclesiology in PURSUANCE, tradition and practice of the canonical Orthodox Church.  The Conference decided to create new episcopal assemblies in some regions of the world to address the issue of the Diaspora, ie Orthodox faithful settled in areas outside the traditional boundaries of the local Orthodox Churches.  The first bishops in the region of the Ecumenical Patriarchate are of Assemblies and Presidents in their absence, the bishops in accordance with the following order of dyptique churches.  All the bishops of the Orthodox Churches who exercise their ministry within the communities existing in these regions are members of these Assemblies. Episcopal Assemblies are mandated to demonstrate and promote the unity of the Orthodox Church, to exercise pastoral diakonia all the faithful of the region and make the world their common witness.  The decisions of the Episcopal Assemblies are made in accordance with the principle of unanimity of the churches represented in these assemblies by bishops.

 After amended and supplemented, the Conference also approved the Draft Regulation Episcopal Assemblies of defining the fundamental principles of organization and operation thereof.

 The remaining topics of the saint and great Council, ie the method of proclaiming the autocephaly and autonomy, and the order of Ditpyques will be discussed in future meetings of the Commissions interorthodoxes history and will be submitted for Conferences approval panorthodoxes preconciliar following.

 Done in Chambésy on 12 June 2009.

 The President of the Conference
? John of Pergamon
.................................
Logged
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2009, 11:02:43 AM »

I would like to know how many "some regions of the world" will be created.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
AntonI
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Of the Bulgarian variety
Posts: 43

OC.net


« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2009, 12:09:42 PM »

By the awesome power of Orthodox bling, per chance?!

There is a brilliant website (sadly in Bulgarian) which deals with both national and international Orthodox issues.  Will add the link but as am guessing not many Bulgarian speakers, will translate the articles dealing with the meeting or any other interesting stories I find.  The site is www.dveri.bg
Logged

Some of us must be sacrificed if all are to be saved

- Ambassador Kosh Naranek
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,613



« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2009, 12:27:44 PM »


Haven't come across an official English translation yet but the concluding Communique from the IV Pan-Orthodox Pre-Conciliar Commission meetings held in Chambesy, Switzerland this week can be found here in Greek, Russian and French:

http://www.centreorthodoxe.org/index.php?lang=fr&smenu=smenu5&nav=secretariat3

It appears the only major outcome was to call for meetings in various "regions" of all "canonical" bishops for further discussions. Bishops of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in each region get to lead the meetings.

Next up will be further discussions on how autocephaly and autonomy are determined. Might that lead to revocations of or alterations to autocephalies and autonomies bestowed the last few decades?



Given his Chief Secretary's recent misstatements, and the uncanonical conclusions he derives from them, this ought to be dealt with.  Otherwise, you pretty much might as well rubber stamp their revision of Canon 28.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Simayan
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate - GOA
Posts: 816



« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2009, 06:43:58 PM »

The prospect of an 8th Ecumenical Council is interesting, to say the least. ...
What would be the heresy to combat at that council, I wonder?

Lack of unity, IMO, with the OOs, Catholics, etc. I'm not speaking of hardcore ecumenism, but it would be nice to at least get some stuff hammered out (and honestly, what better time than at an Ecumenical Council?)
Logged

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,171



« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2009, 03:56:41 PM »

Looks like what is being proposed is a continuation of the mother churches continuing to control their exarchates. The assemblies don't seem to be anything but whitewash--SCOBA in another name, with their activities limited to innocuous subjects by the requirement for unanimity between each church represented on the assemblies.

This may be a done deal as there already has been lots of mentions of regional assemblies. Also a done deal may be the issue of who heads up the assemblies: Canon 28 or not, it looks like a representative of the Constantinople Patriarchate will be the head, with representatives of the other churches (not residing in the barbarian lands) falling in line behind him in accordance with their seniority.

If actually agreed to and implemented, this plan will set back the establishment of a North American Orthodox Church for another century. If the Great Council agrees to this, the Orthodox people of North America may have to start thinking of alternatives. I can think of one alternative: the only autocephalous church on this continent--the Orthodox Church in America.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,843


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2009, 04:05:19 PM »

*The sky is falling!*
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,171



« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2009, 07:54:53 PM »

^
Actually, the sky may have already fallen. The Orthodox in the United States have remained at 1% for decades. The Orthodox Church in North America has failed to accomplish the Great Commission, even though only 40% of the population is Church-going (leaving the remaining 60% available for evangelization and conversion).

We have failed the primary mission. And, we are planning to continue on a failed course. You know, if we know that we are continuing on a failed course and insist on continuing our course--is this not the definition of insanity?
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,613



« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2009, 08:30:43 PM »

Looks like what is being proposed is a continuation of the mother churches continuing to control their exarchates. The assemblies don't seem to be anything but whitewash--SCOBA in another name, with their activities limited to innocuous subjects by the requirement for unanimity between each church represented on the assemblies.

This may be a done deal as there already has been lots of mentions of regional assemblies. Also a done deal may be the issue of who heads up the assemblies: Canon 28 or not, it looks like a representative of the Constantinople Patriarchate will be the head, with representatives of the other churches (not residing in the barbarian lands) falling in line behind him in accordance with their seniority.

If actually agreed to and implemented, this plan will set back the establishment of a North American Orthodox Church for another century. If the Great Council agrees to this, the Orthodox people of North America may have to start thinking of alternatives. I can think of one alternative: the only autocephalous church on this continent--the Orthodox Church in America.
...who of course is the only one not invited.

As the EP has an agenda on this "assembleis," which his chief secretary has tipped his hand, any cooperation with them would be the furtherance of this uncanonical novelty.

A noticible difference between the Ecumenical Councils and the Pan Orthodox Councils of the Fathers and this get together the EP is envisioning: the Fathers invited ALL Orthodox bishops.  The EP thinks he can only send the invites to whom he wants.  How ultramontanist.

I hope no cooperation will come of this.  It can't lead to anything good.  If I want an Ultramontanist Pope, I know his address and can get the original.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
observer
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 546

Vivre die Raznitsa!


« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2009, 10:22:22 PM »

What would be the heresy to combat at that council, I wonder?  That would be the council itself. 7 days of creation, 7 councils and that's all. Read the verses for Matins for the commemoration of 7th council.
Logged

Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,171



« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2009, 10:29:31 PM »

If this pans out as indicated in the communique, it would mean that Moscow has cut a deal with Constantinople. I have the suspicion that this is related to Russian national ambitions and pretensions rather than for ecclesiastical reasons. This means that the top two honchos of he Orthodox world are operating like Mafiosi or the European colonialists carving up the world for themselves!

I was never a fan of folks whose position seemed to consist mostly of "no foreign bishops!" Right now, in my dismay and anger, this position sure seems the right one.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2009, 11:31:38 PM »

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=6118

15 June 2009, 13:32

"Anti-monopoly" proposals of the Moscow Patriarchate are taken into
account in Chambesy


Moscow, June 15, Interfax - The Fourth Pan-Orthodox Pre-Council
Conference in Chambesy (Switzerland) has agreed in its final decision
to the need of equal management of the Orthodox Diaspora which was
highlighted by the representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate before
the meeting.

The Conference decided to create new bishop assemblies within the
regions of Diaspora (Orthodox communities living outside of the area
of local Orthodox churches) to include all canonical Orthodox bishops
governing the communities of such regions.

"The decisions by such bishop assemblies will be made in conformance
with the consensus of the Churches represented therein. The powers of
Episcopal assemblies neither allow the interference into the
eparchial jurisdiction of each bishop, nor limit the rights of his
Church," the official website of the Moscow Patriarchate reports of
the decisions of the Pan-Orthodox Pre-Council Conference.

Before the Conference meetings, the Moscow Patriarchate Diocese of
Korsun and Movement for Local Orthodoxy in Western Europe (OLTR)
expressed their concern with the work of the Assembly of Orthodox
Bishops in France (AEOF) officially headed by the Metropolitan of the
Constantinople Church.

According to the Korsun Diocese and OLTR, the work of AEOF
"inevitably raises tension and discontent", as its head is "more
concerned with interests of the Church which he represents".
Therefore, his election "by the total assembly of AEOF bishops would
provide him more legitimacy."



Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,439



« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2009, 12:16:48 AM »

What would be the heresy to combat at that council, I wonder?  That would be the council itself. 7 days of creation, 7 councils and that's all. Read the verses for Matins for the commemoration of 7th council.

The meeting of the primates already announced that the purpose is to combat the heresy of phyletism
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,613



« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2009, 01:15:01 AM »

What would be the heresy to combat at that council, I wonder?  That would be the council itself. 7 days of creation, 7 councils and that's all. Read the verses for Matins for the commemoration of 7th council.

The meeting of the primates already announced that the purpose is to combat the heresy of phyletism

Physician, heal thyself.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Simayan
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate - GOA
Posts: 816



« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2009, 12:00:31 PM »

I'm sorry, but regardless of how many times I read the decision, I still don't quite understand.

What exactly do they mean, "new bishop assemblies"? That people living outside of an ethnically based Orthodox country will fall under a council of bishops rather than the respective patriarch?

I don't know, it just all seems rather convoluted to me. Are we really thinking of wasting an Ecumenical Council just so we can argue over who has what jurisdiction? Seems like there are MUCH more prudent things to be discussing at this day and age...
Logged

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,613



« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2009, 01:55:21 PM »

I'm sorry, but regardless of how many times I read the decision, I still don't quite understand.

What exactly do they mean, "new bishop assemblies"? That people living outside of an ethnically based Orthodox country will fall under a council of bishops rather than the respective patriarch?

If they are outside an Orthodox country (and some non-Orthodox countries) they are ipso facto not under a Patriarch.

But your point is taken: what exactly is the point of these assemblies, except for the EP to assert, as his Chief Secretary did, that per canon 28 the EP runs everything?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 01:56:56 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Simayan
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate - GOA
Posts: 816



« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2009, 02:41:55 PM »

I'm sorry, but regardless of how many times I read the decision, I still don't quite understand.

What exactly do they mean, "new bishop assemblies"? That people living outside of an ethnically based Orthodox country will fall under a council of bishops rather than the respective patriarch?

If they are outside an Orthodox country (and some non-Orthodox countries) they are ipso facto not under a Patriarch

So then instead of it automatically falling under the EP (as Ive been told the GOA does), it would instead be deferred to a group of bishops with the EP as its head?

If that's the case, I think an internet memo may have sufficed. Lol.
Logged

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,613



« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2009, 03:37:40 PM »

I'm sorry, but regardless of how many times I read the decision, I still don't quite understand.

What exactly do they mean, "new bishop assemblies"? That people living outside of an ethnically based Orthodox country will fall under a council of bishops rather than the respective patriarch?

If they are outside an Orthodox country (and some non-Orthodox countries) they are ipso facto not under a Patriarch

So then instead of it automatically falling under the EP (as Ive been told the GOA does), it would instead be deferred to a group of bishops with the EP as its head?

No, his rep. bishop.

Come to think of it, what would the ranking be of the rest of the bishops?  All the Greek bishopss, then the Arabs bishops, then the Russian bishops....of course there in North America you have three primates, the OCA Metropolitan and ROCOR's primate, and the PoM representative bishop who is here but by terms of his office, doesn't have his see her but in Russia.


Quote
If that's the case, I think an internet memo may have sufficed. Lol.

Can't burn that, or put it to other purposes Shocked
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2009, 02:43:31 PM »

I don't know, it just all seems rather convoluted to me. Are we really thinking of wasting an Ecumenical Council just so we can argue over who has what jurisdiction? Seems like there are MUCH more prudent things to be discussing at this day and age...

Name one.


What exactly do they mean, "new bishop assemblies"? That people living outside of an ethnically based Orthodox country will fall under a council of bishops rather than the respective patriarch?

No, they won't. I suppose that meetings will coordinate less theological things, but that more practical. Like cooperation of prison/hospital/military chaplains, charity works done together, making joint statements on various things (political, moral...) and something like that.

Bishops will stop became alien to each other and it is the main purpose of the idea.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 02:47:30 PM by mike » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2009, 02:46:51 PM »

empty post
I'm sorry
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 02:48:17 PM by mike » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,171



« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2009, 03:18:47 PM »

But, who is going to grow the Church? You know, the inconvenient commandment of our Lord (sometimes called the Great Commission): "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19.

This is the main mission of the Church. So how are we coming along?

60% of the people in the United States are unchurched. Only 1% of the people in the United States are Eastern Orthodox. Neither one of these figures have changed significantly for decades. I don't know about you but my guess is that we are a failed church.

Yet, our mother churches in far away lands are moving the goal posts once again. They are using smoke and mirrors to give the illusion of forward movement. The do not care about us. They do not care about the Great Commission. Like colonial powers of the 19th and early 20th Century, they are too busy carving up the world for themselves. Or, in the case of Churches in dhimmitude under the Muslim yoke, they are trying to survive as they have been trying for a millennium.

Is it not about time to look forward honestly and with purpose?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 03:20:47 PM by Second Chance » Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Simayan
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate - GOA
Posts: 816



« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2009, 05:09:21 PM »

I don't know, it just all seems rather convoluted to me. Are we really thinking of wasting an Ecumenical Council just so we can argue over who has what jurisdiction? Seems like there are MUCH more prudent things to be discussing at this day and age...

Name one.

As I said previously, the major problem I see is an inherent lack of unity with other Christians. Now, I'm not proposing we drop everything and run to the Catholics, but I definitely do not think it's impossible to overcome our differences with both them and the Orientals. From what I see, people are disillusioned with Christianity because of its overwhelming fragmentation. People aren't apart of the Church because they see the Orthodox as an ethnic club (whether that is true or not, it's generally, "Oh, that's the Greek/Russian church"). Catholicism has the opposite problem, lacking the rich tradition following Vatican II yet being seen as more inclusive to new members.

Therefore, what is needed (from my perspective), is a combination of the two. Aiming to reunite a fractured Christianity is what should be the purpose of this Council, and the rest can be sorted out later.
Logged

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,613



« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2009, 07:22:46 PM »

I don't know, it just all seems rather convoluted to me. Are we really thinking of wasting an Ecumenical Council just so we can argue over who has what jurisdiction? Seems like there are MUCH more prudent things to be discussing at this day and age...

Name one.

As I said previously, the major problem I see is an inherent lack of unity with other Christians. Now, I'm not proposing we drop everything and run to the Catholics, but I definitely do not think it's impossible to overcome our differences with both them and the Orientals. From what I see, people are disillusioned with Christianity because of its overwhelming fragmentation. People aren't apart of the Church because they see the Orthodox as an ethnic club (whether that is true or not, it's generally, "Oh, that's the Greek/Russian church"). Catholicism has the opposite problem, lacking the rich tradition following Vatican II yet being seen as more inclusive to new members.

Therefore, what is needed (from my perspective), is a combination of the two. Aiming to reunite a fractured Christianity is what should be the purpose of this Council, and the rest can be sorted out later.

That include ECUSA?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.135 seconds with 71 queries.