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Author Topic: 12 pagan greek gods...  (Read 5544 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: June 02, 2009, 05:32:33 AM »

This Greek i Know claims he's orthodox christian ,but he also believes in the 12 greek gods,,its confusing
what does he mean by this.... Huh Huh
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 05:52:38 AM »

link to wikipedia article about "Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenic_Polytheistic_Reconstructionism
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2009, 07:47:56 AM »

This Greek i Know claims he's orthodox christian ,but he also believes in the 12 greek gods,,its confusing
what does he mean by this.... Huh Huh

He might believe the 12 gods are actually angels.
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2009, 07:50:38 AM »

What is meant under "believe in gods?" Is it that he considers these 12 gods real, alive today?
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2009, 09:29:38 AM »

means he has dual membership in a Greek Orthodox parish and maintains a membership here..http://www.ysee.gr/index-eng.php
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 09:41:15 AM »

means he has dual membership in a Greek Orthodox parish and maintains a membership here..http://www.ysee.gr/index-eng.php

Thanks for the link, but I am still not clear: do these Helenists really believe that, say, Zeuss or Apollo or Aphrodite are alive, real beings who sit at a banquet table somewhere on Mt. Olympus and drink nectar and ambrosia? In other words, is that a merely cultural belonging to a "club," or is it religious faith?
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2009, 09:59:31 AM »

I would like to know as well.
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2009, 10:16:47 AM »

This Greek i Know claims he's orthodox christian ,but he also believes in the 12 greek gods,,its confusing
what does he mean by this.... Huh Huh

That he is pagan, pure and simple, and doesn't know what Orthodoxy is.

Hello! (or maybe, Yia Sou!).  Zeus is dead.  And no, not risen, nor will he rise.
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2009, 10:17:38 AM »

That he is pagan, pure and simple, and doesn't know what Orthodoxy is.
Yeah, basically.
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2009, 10:23:22 AM »

This Greek i Know claims he's orthodox christian ,but he also believes in the 12 greek gods,,its confusing
what does he mean by this.... Huh Huh

Oh, that's Hellenism. That's a wonderful thing, crucial to Orthodoxy!

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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2009, 10:24:09 AM »

Oh, that's Hellenism. That's a wonderful thing, crucial to Orthodoxy!
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2009, 10:38:10 AM »

In Ukraine, there are wacos of this kind, too - teach that the "true Orthodoxy" is to believe in Jesus, but also in the ancient Slavic "trinity" of the gods Prav, Slav, and Nav, and in Perun, and Stribog, and Dashdbog, and the whole pantheon of "gods." But the Ukrainian wacos, AFAIK, at least admit that these gods do not really exist, that they are emanations, sort of, of the Slavic "energy of the soul" ("egregor" or something).

There is also a group, based in Kyiv, who call themselves "Perekhid-4" (literally "Transformation Number Four"). They publish a magazine of their own. Their leader, a guy called Ihor Kahanets', published a number of books where he "proves" that Jesus Christ was a true-blue Ukrainian (from Galilee -> a "Galatian" -> same as a Halychanyn, i.e. a Ukrainian from Halychyna-"Galizia"). According to Kananets''s "Christology," the advent of Christ was an Arian revenge to Jews.
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2009, 10:49:09 AM »

In Ukraine, there are wacos of this kind, too - teach that the "true Orthodoxy" is to believe in Jesus, but also in the ancient Slavic "trinity" of the gods Prav, Slav, and Nav, and in Perun, and Stribog, and Dashdbog, and the whole pantheon of "gods."

Isn't there some sort of pagan diety worshipped by some in Russia, that are Orthodox? I remember reading something about it a while back.

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According to Kananets''s "Christology," the advent of Christ was an Arian revenge to Jews.

Could you explain what you mean by this?
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2009, 10:56:59 AM »

In Ukraine, there are wacos of this kind, too - teach that the "true Orthodoxy" is to believe in Jesus, but also in the ancient Slavic "trinity" of the gods Prav, Slav, and Nav, and in Perun, and Stribog, and Dashdbog, and the whole pantheon of "gods."

Isn't there some sort of pagan diety worshipped by some in Russia, that are Orthodox? I remember reading something about it a while back.

Yes. I just don't recall the exact names of the Russian "neo-pagans," but I do know some names of these "double-believers" who are Ukrainian.

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According to Kananets''s "Christology," the advent of Christ was an Arian revenge to Jews.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

Kahanets' believes that Galilee was an Aryan "island" inside the Jewish "sea," and Christ and His apostles (all Galileans="Aryans" except Judas) were doing the work of liberation of the humankind from the Jewish (or Judiac, or "Levitic") spiritual captivity. In a way, Kahanets' is an epigone of Douglas Reed (the author of the book titled "The Zion Controversy").
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2009, 11:00:16 AM »

Well....uh.....OK, so the guy is an idiot....apparently.Undecided
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2009, 11:31:33 AM »

Well....uh.....OK, so the guy is an idiot....apparently.Undecided

Well, his intellectual capacities seem to be OK... just the faith is totally different from ous.
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« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2009, 11:42:20 AM »

In Ukraine, there are wacos of this kind, too - teach that the "true Orthodoxy" is to believe in Jesus, but also in the ancient Slavic "trinity" of the gods Prav, Slav, and Nav, and in Perun, and Stribog, and Dashdbog, and the whole pantheon of "gods."

Isn't there some sort of pagan diety worshipped by some in Russia, that are Orthodox?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  Ipso facto, they cannot be Orthodox.

I think you are thinking of the confusion between Perun and St. Elijah.

Well....uh.....OK, so the guy is an idiot....apparently.Undecided

Well, his intellectual capacities seem to be OK... just the faith is totally different from ous.

No, if he thinks that he can believe in the Greek pantheon and the Most Holy Trinity, his intellectual capacities are out of wack.
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2009, 12:20:59 PM »

In Ukraine, there are wacos of this kind, too - teach that the "true Orthodoxy" is to believe in Jesus, but also in the ancient Slavic "trinity" of the gods Prav, Slav, and Nav, and in Perun, and Stribog, and Dashdbog, and the whole pantheon of "gods."

Isn't there some sort of pagan diety worshipped by some in Russia, that are Orthodox?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  Ipso facto, they cannot be Orthodox.

I think you are thinking of the confusion between Perun and St. Elijah.

Well....uh.....OK, so the guy is an idiot....apparently.Undecided

Well, his intellectual capacities seem to be OK... just the faith is totally different from ous.

No, if he thinks that he can believe in the Greek pantheon and the Most Holy Trinity, his intellectual capacities are out of wack.

Then all syncretists are idiots. Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2009, 12:23:16 PM »

In Ukraine, there are wacos of this kind, too - teach that the "true Orthodoxy" is to believe in Jesus, but also in the ancient Slavic "trinity" of the gods Prav, Slav, and Nav, and in Perun, and Stribog, and Dashdbog, and the whole pantheon of "gods."

Isn't there some sort of pagan diety worshipped by some in Russia, that are Orthodox?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  Ipso facto, they cannot be Orthodox.

I think you are thinking of the confusion between Perun and St. Elijah.

Well....uh.....OK, so the guy is an idiot....apparently.Undecided

Well, his intellectual capacities seem to be OK... just the faith is totally different from ous.

No, if he thinks that he can believe in the Greek pantheon and the Most Holy Trinity, his intellectual capacities are out of wack.

Then all syncretists are idiots. Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2009, 12:42:13 PM »

"double-believers"

Dvoeverie: Another source of ancient Slavic beliefs are the people who still practice dvoeverie, or the "double faith," within the Russian Orthodox religion. Dvoeverie is described as "the continuation of pagan traditions after the adoption of Christianity as the state-sanctioned religion due mainly to resistance from women who far preferred matriarchal pagan religions to patriarchal Christianity" (Dixon-Kennedy 78).
http://www.mythicarts.com/writing/Rusalki.html
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« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2009, 12:53:45 PM »


Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  Ipso facto, they cannot be Orthodox.

Duh!  Tongue

Quote
I think you are thinking of the confusion between Perun and St. Elijah.

No it was something to do with a horse demon/god that the farmers paid homage to for good crops, and safety for their livestock. This is a recent phenomenon too.

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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2009, 01:00:54 PM »

This Greek i Know claims he's orthodox christian ,but he also believes in the 12 greek gods,,its confusingwhat does he mean by this.... Huh Huh
That he is pagan, pure and simple, and doesn't know what Orthodoxy is.

He just sounds bored to me.
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2009, 01:33:45 PM »

He just sounds bored to me.
No, he probably feels, as many Cradles do, that Orthodoxy is simply a family tradition, and nothing more.
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« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2009, 02:10:32 PM »

Heorhij, not exactly on topic, perhaps, but since you mentioned it...I have some questions about "energy". Many of my Ukrainian friends would talk constantly of "energy". An apartment could have "good" or "bad" energy, and one could literally "feel" it. The prots thought this was a satanic, evil way of thinking. I remember one of my friends, though she converted to the Prots, once told me about this "bad energy" which existed in her flat (I personally never sensed it, but she claimed it did all kinds of weird things to her-her building was located on a former battle site). She told me once it will never do to tell a Protestant pastor about it-it can only be a matter for an Orthodox priest (only he would have the power to rid her flat of this "bad energy"-I thought that interesting despite the fact that she did not believe in Orthodoxy).

After a time, I too became sort of a believer in this "energy" business. In certain places I've lived I've felt something is wrong-nothing thrives-not even my plants. They wither and do not flourish. A person feels heavy and unwell much of the time. Or could simply be that the person is actually ill and hasn't yet been diagnosed? But then, how would that affect plantlife?
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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2009, 04:30:36 PM »

Heorhij, not exactly on topic, perhaps, but since you mentioned it...I have some questions about "energy". Many of my Ukrainian friends would talk constantly of "energy". An apartment could have "good" or "bad" energy, and one could literally "feel" it. The prots thought this was a satanic, evil way of thinking. I remember one of my friends, though she converted to the Prots, once told me about this "bad energy" which existed in her flat (I personally never sensed it, but she claimed it did all kinds of weird things to her-her building was located on a former battle site). She told me once it will never do to tell a Protestant pastor about it-it can only be a matter for an Orthodox priest (only he would have the power to rid her flat of this "bad energy"-I thought that interesting despite the fact that she did not believe in Orthodoxy).

After a time, I too became sort of a believer in this "energy" business. In certain places I've lived I've felt something is wrong-nothing thrives-not even my plants. They wither and do not flourish. A person feels heavy and unwell much of the time. Or could simply be that the person is actually ill and hasn't yet been diagnosed? But then, how would that affect plantlife?

In all honesty, Rosehip, I don't know much about it. Yes, I, too, heard from people that this or that place has "good energy" or "bad energy." But I do not know what it is. I am an emotional and sometimes even passionate person, but in matters like this I am kind of "down to earth" - am sceptical about all this "extrasense" business. Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2009, 04:39:40 PM »

I had never heard much about it before I lived in Ukraine. Over there, it seemed to be a natural part of nearly every conversation...
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2009, 05:32:16 PM »

I had never heard much about it before I lived in Ukraine. Over there, it seemed to be a natural part of nearly every conversation...

In China, it's believed that different geographical locations have different patterns and flows of energy, or "chi". Thus, "Feng Shui" is the art of building houses and offices in a way that takes advantage of the patterns and flows of energy.

In India, the energy is called "prana", and the art is called "Vastu".

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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2009, 06:08:15 PM »

I had never heard much about it before I lived in Ukraine. Over there, it seemed to be a natural part of nearly every conversation...

It was not all that popular when I was growing up. I guess it started some time in the late 1980-s, when a man called Kashpirovsky became a popular TV personality. He talked at length about the energy of water, air, soil, etc. Last time when Lesya and I were in Ukraine, we met one woman who showed us some places in Kyiv where, according to her, the soil has some special energy and it is very good for you to walk barefoot (she even took off her shoes and made a few steps barefoot).

Again, I don't know... perhaps I am just too old to learn about these "extra-sensual" things. Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2009, 06:21:19 PM »

^^  laugh
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2009, 07:48:35 PM »

An apartment could have "good" or "bad" energy, and one could literally "feel" it.

Well, I believe that the Holy Scriptures speak of God "energizing" us, and the the Energies/Essence distinction is foundational for Orthodoxy.  Elder Maximos of the Holy Mountain has talked about demons in terms of negative energy in the book The Mountain of Silence, so perhaps his wisdom in that book would be more helpful to you.
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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2009, 07:55:44 PM »

An apartment could have "good" or "bad" energy, and one could literally "feel" it.

Well, I believe that the Holy Scriptures speak of God "energizing" us, and the the Energies/Essence distinction is foundational for Orthodoxy.  Elder Maximos of the Holy Mountain has talked about demons in terms of negative energy in the book The Mountain of Silence, so perhaps his wisdom in that book would be more helpful to you.

Sounds interesting. I've heard about this book, but never read it.
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« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2009, 08:46:15 PM »

This Greek i Know claims he's orthodox christian ,but he also believes in the 12 greek gods,,its confusing
what does he mean by this.... Huh Huh

Seems to me that it's best not to jump to any conclusions about this man's faith or lack thereof given the lack of details in your question. He could well be confused, but he could also mean something that you're not understanding. For instance, does he actually accept the reality of the Greek Gods and worship them along with the One True God, or does he merely accept their place in history as some kind of precursor to the revelation of the One True God the Greeks would eventually receive - a vague general revelation of the Divine? I know there are neo-pagans in Greece, but from what I have read they seem to worship the old gods exclusively. Your question really is too vague to give an answer. Ask your acquaintance to explain what he means exactly.

Edited for clarity.
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« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2009, 09:32:33 PM »

This Greek i Know claims he's orthodox christian ,but he also believes in the 12 greek gods,,its confusing
what does he mean by this.... Huh Huh

Seems to me that it's best not to jump to any conclusions about this man's faith or lack thereof given the lack of details in your question. He could well be confused, but he could also mean something that you're not understanding. For instance, does he actually accept the reality of the Greek Gods and worship them along with the One True God, or does he merely accept their place in history as some kind of precursor to the revelation of the One True God the Greeks would eventually receive - a vague general revelation of the Divine? I know there are neo-pagans in Greece, but from what I have read they seem to worship the old gods exclusively. Your question really is too vague to give an answer. Ask your acquaintance to explain what he means exactly.

Edited for clarity.

Exactly what Riddi said. What does it actually mean, to "believe" in whatever number of whatever "gods?"
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« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2009, 10:16:41 PM »

He keeps preaching these 12 Greek gods every time i see him...I think he slipped a cog in his head...the only mythology  i know about them is by watching the Hercules films or even the films young Hercules ...They seemed to have  human failings..pettiness ,jealousy vengeful .lustful possessive...Thank God The true one they don't exist....
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« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2009, 10:25:37 PM »

He keeps preaching these 12 Greek gods every time i see him...I think he slipped a cog in his head...the only mythology  i know about them is by watching the Hercules films or even the films young Hercules ...They seemed to have  human failings..pettiness ,jealousy vengeful .lustful possessive...Thank God The true one they don't exist....

Some say that the Greek deities, and their troublesome behavior, are actually symbolic of the movement of the planets and stars. Thus, Zeus copulating with various women, might symbolize various planetary conjunctions (such as Jupiter conjunct with Saturn) in the heavens. Our ancestors needed to have knowledge of the stars, in order to create their calendars and plant their life-giving crops.
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« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2009, 10:40:26 PM »

He keeps preaching these 12 Greek gods every time i see him...I think he slipped a cog in his head...the only mythology  i know about them is by watching the Hercules films or even the films young Hercules ...They seemed to have  human failings..pettiness ,jealousy vengeful .lustful possessive...Thank God The true one they don't exist....

Some say that the Greek deities, and their troublesome behavior, are actually symbolic of the movement of the planets and stars. Thus, Zeus copulating with various women, might symbolize various planetary conjunctions (such as Jupiter conjunct with Saturn) in the heavens. Our ancestors needed to have knowledge of the stars, in order to create their calendars and plant their life-giving crops.


I don't know ,,But to me its like demons that were deified....hateful ,spiteful....im sure people did fine in other places around the world in discovering things about Gods creation ,and they may never of heard of the greek gods...
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« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2009, 08:57:40 AM »

He keeps preaching these 12 Greek gods every time i see him...I think he slipped a cog in his head...the only mythology  i know about them is by watching the Hercules films or even the films young Hercules ...They seemed to have  human failings..pettiness ,jealousy vengeful .lustful possessive...Thank God The true one they don't exist....

Some say that the Greek deities, and their troublesome behavior, are actually symbolic of the movement of the planets and stars. Thus, Zeus copulating with various women, might symbolize various planetary conjunctions (such as Jupiter conjunct with Saturn) in the heavens. Our ancestors needed to have knowledge of the stars, in order to create their calendars and plant their life-giving crops.


I don't know ,,But to me its like demons that were deified....hateful ,spiteful....im sure people did fine in other places around the world in discovering things about Gods creation ,and they may never of heard of the greek gods...
But did they not create their own mythology? It sounds like a plausible theory. Epistemology fascinates me.
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« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2009, 09:09:24 AM »

I think you are thinking of the confusion between Perun and St. Elijah.

Actually you are right. I remembered that it was Perun.
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« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2009, 09:32:10 AM »

Greetings, everyone! I just joined and I thought that I might be of some help concerning Greeks who believe in the existence of these gods. I'm a Greek Christian Orthodox myself.
Here in Greece, we were always full of authors involving Epsilonism. Most of them tried to convince us that we are the ones that God has chosen and we're descendants of the Elohim, while Hebrews are descendants of the Nephilim, which makes them our deadly enemies. According to them, the Elohim where Watchers who were taken as gods in all over the world (e.g: Zeus, Apollo etc.), but their true descendants are only the Greeks; in whom the sacred Greek blood (Ichor) flows. The concept isn't really far from Hitler's Aryan race, I guess...
So they brainwashed the people and convinced many of them that the Greek gods are God-sent (but live in Sirius, for the time being) creatures who will help the world defeat Satan and the Nephilim (who are supposed to be still alive, dwelling somewhere underground).
I used to believe that too, but I soon realized that the Greek gods are no different than the rest gods that manipulate the world, they're just demons.

Nevertheless, many Greeks still believe all of the above. They claim that one day (aroynd 2012?) Ichor will be activated and the Greeks will conquer again, while Apollo etc. will aid them in their battles...

Anyway...
As a Christian, I truly accept that Zeus is real. Of course, we cannot compare an inferior demon being like Zeus to our never-ending and perfect Holy Trinity.
I see other gods as demons, beings that create illusions and try to lead people away from the true God. I do not worship them nor I see them as a way to Salvation, on the contrary...
Now, allow me to end my post with the following verse.
Quote
1 Corinthians 8:4-6
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Cheers!
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« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2009, 09:35:44 AM »

Welcome to the forum! Thanks for the info, very helpful.  Smiley
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« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2009, 09:40:12 AM »

Epsilonism...wow. Uncharacteristically, I am rendered speechless.
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« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2009, 09:44:17 AM »

Epsilonism...wow. Uncharacteristically, I am rendered speechless.
Thank God for that.  Wink
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« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2009, 08:18:57 AM »

I am one who believes that the various pagan pantheons probably started out as ancestor worship. After enough generations went by, the stories of those ancestors became embellished to the extent that they became gods to their descendants.

"Energy" in a house? I don't know. Maybe certain places have demonic activity going on... maybe there are other explanations... maybe there is nothing at all...
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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2009, 12:08:46 AM »

Can you be a good Roman Catholic and believe in the little people?
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« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2009, 10:23:14 AM »

Can you be a good Roman Catholic and believe in the little people?
Why not? You can be a Christian (of any denomination) and easily attribute all pagan miracles and such to demons.
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