Author Topic: A Fallen World?  (Read 976 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rosehip

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,760
A Fallen World?
« on: June 01, 2009, 11:54:20 PM »
Do Orthodox teach and believe that we live in a "fallen" world-that the reason bad things happen is because of this? Or is it not really fallen, just that bad and good co-exist?
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline John of the North

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,533
  • Christ is Risen!
Re: A Fallen World?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 12:14:19 AM »
Orthodoxy teaches that the Fall of Man has affected all Creationan and that each individual's sin has a cosmic effect.
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline Rosehip

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,760
Re: A Fallen World?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2009, 12:46:56 PM »
But I thought it also taught that Christ came into the world to redeem it-the entire cosmos. So it isn't really redeemed after all (confused)?
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: A Fallen World?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2009, 01:00:48 PM »
Do Orthodox teach and believe that we live in a "fallen" world-that the reason bad things happen is because of this? Or is it not really fallen, just that bad and good co-exist?
Man was meant to rule, not dominate, over the creation and offer the creation back to God. We have failed in this because of sin. This affected all of creation/cosmos:

Romans 8:18-25 ESV

18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

I hope that this clears things up.  ;)

Offline recent convert

  • Orthodox Chrisitan
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,011
  • St.David of Wales pray for us
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Re: A Fallen World?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2009, 01:04:46 PM »
I believe Adam & Eve being deceived brought about death in our bodies of matter and later Cain murdering Abel brought about moral decay culminating in the great flood. Christ has redeemed everything but I believe we are still progressing to that point ourselves (& we must be faithful to do so). "Christ has risen from the dead, trampling down death, by death and to all those in the tombs bestowing life" as we sing until ascension. My 2 cents.
Antiochian OC N.A.

Offline Rosehip

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,760
Re: A Fallen World?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 01:41:47 PM »
Could some suffering be merely fate and not necessarily God's will, or a result of sin? Some people who sin a great deal, for instance, experience many blessings, while others who try to be very conscientious may be destined for terrible deprivation and suffering.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: A Fallen World?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2009, 01:50:30 PM »
Could some suffering be merely fate...

No not if by fate you mean:

a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency.

I do not think that this is an Orthodox way of thinking. Some suffering is a result of sin, yes.

It is completely impossible to understand "why". This is the whole theme of the Book of Job. You want to know the ending of that Book? Basically God says,

GOD: "Hey, Job, were you there when I created the universe?"

JOB: "Uhhhhh.....no."

GOD: "Then don't worry aboout why good people suffer, and bad people prosper."

There is certainly a use for suffering. It helps us on the road to perfection. How can one be humble, if he is not debased? Debasement involves suffering.

Ultimately, we will never know the "why".
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 01:50:59 PM by PoorFoolNicholas »