OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 17, 2014, 11:36:33 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Giving the Deacon the "fans" at a Diaconal Ordination?  (Read 5247 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,364


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« on: June 01, 2009, 02:14:15 PM »

I just received a video from my brother who went to an ordination (which will remain unnamed) where he saw (and I have video) the deacon receive a "fan" or "exapteriga" from the bishop, after he received all of his ordination garments, and the "diakonikon"...so immediately after that.  Everyone said "axios" as with all of the others, and after that they did the final "axios" for the candidate. 

Has ANYONE ever seen this? 

I immediately made the connection to deacons as the order of the angels (b/c of their servitude aspect, etc.).  Any corroboration or thought on any of this?

Although I have seen the word spelled as "deaconate", by far the most accepted spelling is "diaconate".  The thread title has thus been modified to conform to this usage.  Pravoslavbob.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:24:46 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,070


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 02:21:57 PM »

I've never seen it in any of the ordinations I've attended.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:17:07 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,364


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 02:26:31 PM »

I've never seen it in any of the ordinations I've attended.

Me either!  I was so freaked out...i'm gona send you the video via e-mail...you gota see this...
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:17:21 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,070


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 02:27:14 PM »

Ok!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:17:35 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,598



« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 02:29:29 PM »

I've never seen it in any of the ordinations I've attended.

Me either!  I was so freaked out...i'm gona send you the video via e-mail...you gota see this...

LOL.  You shock easy.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:17:48 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,902


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 04:09:12 PM »

That is how it was done at my ordination.  Are you stating that it is not common for the fan to be given?

Fr. Deacon Lance
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:18:03 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,070


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 04:16:04 PM »

That is how it was done at my ordination.  Are you stating that it is not common for the fan to be given?

Fr. Deacon Lance

Not that I've seen.  (I've only seen ordinations to the Diaconate in Greek Orthodox parishes.)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:18:40 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,902


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 04:29:36 PM »

Perhaps this a Slav vs Greek usage thing?  Anybody seen any OCA/ROCOR/UOC/ACROD deacon ordinations?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:19:11 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 04:31:10 PM »

Perhaps this a Slav vs Greek usage thing?  Anybody seen any OCA/ROCOR/UOC/ACROD deacon ordinations?

Even during Hierarchical DLs I hardly ever see fans in use. Never heard of them beeing used in such a way.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:19:24 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,902


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 05:20:19 PM »

Don't misunderstand, this is pretty much an ordination only thing, although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done.  It was the last item given.  I then fanned the Holy Gifts until time for communion.  I haven't done it since.

Fr. Deacon Lance
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:19:36 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,364


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 06:11:16 PM »

I've never seen it in any of the ordinations I've attended.

Me either!  I was so freaked out...i'm gona send you the video via e-mail...you gota see this...

LOL.  You shock easy.

If you only knew my friend...if you only knew. 

Perhaps this a Slav vs Greek usage thing?  Anybody seen any OCA/ROCOR/UOC/ACROD deacon ordinations?

this seems to be a logical assumption, since the ordination was done in the serbian church...I still am not sure it's correct..
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:20:01 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,070


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 06:16:20 PM »

Don't misunderstand, this is pretty much an ordination only thing, although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done.  It was the last item given.  I then fanned the Holy Gifts until time for communion.  I haven't done it since.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Fascinating!  For our ordinations, the Deacon becomes the first-deacon in rank for the day, and so he proceeds out and does the following set of petitions (beginning with "having remembered all the Saints"), and doesn't return to the sanctuary until "The Holy Things for the Holy."
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:20:14 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,364


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 06:21:32 PM »

Don't misunderstand, this is pretty much an ordination only thing, although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done.  It was the last item given.  I then fanned the Holy Gifts until time for communion.  I haven't done it since.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Out of curiosity, which Liturgikon are you talking about?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:20:29 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,902


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 07:08:05 PM »

Don't misunderstand, this is pretty much an ordination only thing, although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done.  It was the last item given.  I then fanned the Holy Gifts until time for communion.  I haven't done it since.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Fascinating!  For our ordinations, the Deacon becomes the first-deacon in rank for the day, and so he proceeds out and does the following set of petitions (beginning with "having remembered all the Saints"), and doesn't return to the sanctuary until "The Holy Things for the Holy."

The first chanting the newly ordained deacon does in our tradition is: "Approach with fear of God and with faith!"  He also chants the Litany of Thanksgiving.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:20:43 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,183


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2009, 07:13:29 PM »

Don't misunderstand, this is pretty much an ordination only thing, although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done.  It was the last item given.  I then fanned the Holy Gifts until time for communion.  I haven't done it since.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Fascinating!  For our ordinations, the Deacon becomes the first-deacon in rank for the day, and so he proceeds out and does the following set of petitions (beginning with "having remembered all the Saints"), and doesn't return to the sanctuary until "The Holy Things for the Holy."

The first chanting the newly ordained deacon does in our tradition is: "Approach with fear of God and with faith!"  He also chants the Litany of Thanksgiving.

This is also what is done in the OCA.  And in the OCA, they are also given the fan at their ordination, at least in my diocese.  So it looks like it could well be a "Greek VS Slav" thing.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 12:06:42 AM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,902


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2009, 07:28:21 PM »

Don't misunderstand, this is pretty much an ordination only thing, although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done.  It was the last item given.  I then fanned the Holy Gifts until time for communion.  I haven't done it since.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Out of curiosity, which Liturgikon are you talking about?

Specifically the Greek Catholic Ruthenian Recension Liturgikon.  But the fanning of the gifts is called for in the OCA books as well:
http://www.biserica.org/Publicatii/ServiceBook/sjcli.htm
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 12:04:14 AM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,364


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 08:52:10 PM »

Don't misunderstand, this is pretty much an ordination only thing, although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done.  It was the last item given.  I then fanned the Holy Gifts until time for communion.  I haven't done it since.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Out of curiosity, which Liturgikon are you talking about?

Specifically the Greek Catholic Ruthenian Recension Liturgikon.  But the fanning of the gifts is called for in the OCA books as well:
http://www.biserica.org/Publicatii/ServiceBook/sjcli.htm

Thanks!!  This is so fascinating...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 12:03:57 AM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,364


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2009, 08:53:26 PM »

Quote
Although I have seen the word spelled as "deaconate", by far the most accepted spelling is "diaconate".  The thread title has thus been modified to conform to this usage.  Pravoslavbob.

LOL!  No problem Bob!  I only did it that way b/c of the way we say "deacon" in the church.  I was not aware that there was a distinction.  Learn something new every day! 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2009, 11:12:13 PM »

I am sorry that I was at work while this discussion was going on...

Giving the newly ordained Deacon a Liturgical Fan is a practice that I would not define as Serbian, Greek, Russian or whatever but more of one of those Bishop's choice things. I have seen in done in every practice and also not done in every practice. It really just depends on what the Bishop's wish is.

As for the litany before the Lord's prayer, it is typically assigned to the Second Deacon. As many of us know the permanent diaconate is making a comeback and there was a time when the only deacon serving would be the newly ordained one. There is also the desire for the new Deacon to do something that the people can see after he is ordained and so even when the Litany before the Lord's prayer is eliminated in the local practice it is said by the new deacon at his ordination.

Hope this helps.
Logged

Joseph
Elpidophoros
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: OX
Posts: 292



« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 04:13:08 PM »

although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done. 
The modern style of liturgical fan as a design of processional use is quite cumbersome for fanning Gifts.But using the Aer to fan the Holy Gifts still be commom,isn't it?
Logged
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,902


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2009, 11:08:12 PM »

although the Liturgikon does call for the deacon to fan the Holy Gifts, it is almost never done. 
The modern style of liturgical fan as a design of processional use is quite cumbersome for fanning Gifts.But using the Aer to fan the Holy Gifts still be commom,isn't it?

In my Archeparchy we have an "ordination" fan that makes the rounds of all diaconal ordinations.  It is smaller than your typical processional fan so fanning the Holy Gifts at the ordination Liturgy is not cumbersome.  The Aer is used by the priest during the Creed, but the Typicon also specifies that deacon fan the Holy Gifts during the Anaphora and this is almost never done unless at an outdoor Liturgy and flies are about.  In this situation one of the veils is used.

Fr. Deacon Lance
Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Subdeacon Michael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 195



« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2010, 09:32:54 AM »

Christ is risen!

The rubrics do call for the gifts to be fanned by the deacon during part of the Anaphora.  However, this rubric is really something of an archaism and is usually no longer followed in our times except on the day of ordination.  (Some churches do still follow the traditional practice whenever  deacon is serving at the Liturgy but they are few and far between.) It had never occurred to me that some churches might not do this.
Logged

'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,364


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2010, 05:21:23 PM »

Christ is risen!

The rubrics do call for the gifts to be fanned by the deacon during part of the Anaphora.  However, this rubric is really something of an archaism and is usually no longer followed in our times except on the day of ordination.  (Some churches do still follow the traditional practice whenever  deacon is serving at the Liturgy but they are few and far between.) It had never occurred to me that some churches might not do this.

I would say the vast majority (over 90%) of churches do NOT do this.  In our Liturgics class we discussed how a lot of these things changed during the Turkish Occupation...so that's the usual time-frame given for the change.  Not sure what your experience has been...
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
franthonyc
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA Metropolis of Detroit
Posts: 84


WWW
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2010, 01:46:52 AM »

Here's the reference from an 1886 (if I'm not mistaken) publication of the Constantinopolitan Ieratikon (specifically from the translation published in 1894 by J.N.W.B. Robertson.





http://books.google.com/books?id=KDQ3AAAAMAAJ&dq=j.n.w.b.%20robertson%20liturgies&pg=PA295#v=onepage&q=j.n.w.b.%20robertson%20liturgies&f=false

It's a nice reference in a number of ways.

As for this specific issue...my personal guess is that the Fan was an necessary liturgical implement in the years before air-conditioning. These days, it's rare to have flies hovering over the chalice. But if you had the windows/doors of the church open to keep air circulating in the summertime...you would need a fan constantly over the chalice to protect the Gifts.
Logged

Τῷ μεγάλῳ χρίεται μύρῳ καὶ χειρονεῖται βασιλεὺς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, πάντων δηλαδὴ τῶν χριστιανῶν...οὐδὲν οὖν ἔνι καλὸν, υἱέ μου, ἵνα λέγῃς, ὅτι ἐκκλησίαν ἔχομεν, οὐχὶ βασιλέα, οὐκ ἔνι δυνατὸν εἰς τοὺς χριστιανοὺς, ἔκκλησίαν ἔχειν καὶ βασιλέα οὐκ ἔχειν. – EP Anthony to Basil of Moscow c. 1395
Subdeacon Michael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 195



« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2010, 07:58:01 AM »

Thank you, serb1389.  My experience has been with the Russian Church Abroad and OCA.

As for this specific issue...my personal guess is that the Fan was an necessary liturgical implement in the years before air-conditioning. These days, it's rare to have flies hovering over the chalice. But if you had the windows/doors of the church open to keep air circulating in the summertime...you would need a fan constantly over the chalice to protect the Gifts.

IIRC, the fans date from ancient civilisations, where they were used to keep insects away from the rulers and their families, and to provide shade from the sunshine to keep them cool.  I think they were used in ancient Ehypt.  Because of this association, in time they came to be seen as signs of honour given to revered persons and things.  I don't know when they came into use in Christianity or whether they were ever used practically to keep flies away.  Probably they were but certainly their use had long been estalished by that point as honorific as well.  Certainly, their importation into Chrictian use was early enough that their use is common to both east and west.  In the west, they still resemble something much closer to their original form, made from feathers, while in the east the feathers disappeared and they took on a circular shape, often with icons of Saints or seraphim on them.

As for their being needed constantly over the chalice to protect the gifts, I'm not sure that this is necessarily the case as the chalice covered for most of the Liturgy, either with veils or by a small paten at various times.  It is only at certain points that it is uncovered.

In Christ risen,
Michael
Logged

'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt
Jake C
Catechumen
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Diocese of Wichita and Mid-America
Posts: 88



« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2010, 04:14:56 PM »

The deacon at my parish fans the Holy Gifts at every Divine Liturgy.
Logged

Blessed art Thou, O Lord, teach me Thy statutes.
Subdeacon Michael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 195



« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2010, 04:54:49 PM »

Heartwarming to hear!

I love reading about these things being continued.  Some of our English translatios of the liturgical books tell us that certain rubrics are no longer followed and in almost every case I have either myself witnessed or know somebody who has witnessed evidence to the contrary.  God bless your parish.
Logged

'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt
ilyazhito
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 885



« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2011, 04:18:05 PM »

Yes. This is the practice in the Russian Church. I have been at a diaconal ordination, and have seen pictures of ordinations, and have seen the Bishop clearly present a deacon with a fan.
It is even mentioned in the Chinovnik and English edition of the Arkhieratikon
Logged
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,780



« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2011, 04:37:17 PM »

Thank you, serb1389.  My experience has been with the Russian Church Abroad and OCA.

As for this specific issue...my personal guess is that the Fan was an necessary liturgical implement in the years before air-conditioning. These days, it's rare to have flies hovering over the chalice. But if you had the windows/doors of the church open to keep air circulating in the summertime...you would need a fan constantly over the chalice to protect the Gifts.

IIRC, the fans date from ancient civilisations, where they were used to keep insects away from the rulers and their families, and to provide shade from the sunshine to keep them cool.  I think they were used in ancient Ehypt.  Because of this association, in time they came to be seen as signs of honuor given to revered persons and things.  I don't know when they came into use in Christianity or whether they were ever used practically to keep flies away.  Probably they were but certainly their use had long been estalished by that point as honorific as well.  Certainly, their importation into Chrictian use was early enough that their use is common to both east and west.  In the west, they still resemble something much closer to their original form, made from feathers, while in the east the feathers disappeared and they took on a circular shape, often with icons of Saints or seraphim on them.

As for their being needed constantly over the chalice to protect the gifts, I'm not sure that this is necessarily the case as the chalice covered for most of the Liturgy, either with veils or by a small paten at various times.  It is only at certain points that it is uncovered.

In Christ risen,
Michael

In my OCA (Diocese of the South) church, the fans are used also during the small and great entrances and the readiing of the Holy Gospel, indicating perhaps the second usage--that is as signs of honor. Fortunately most of our altar servers are adults, so that we do not have the spectacle of a poor kid straining to hold them in their proper position.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,122



« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2013, 04:01:48 PM »

The deacon at my parish fans the Holy Gifts at every Divine Liturgy.

I realize this is an old post, but I'm glad to learn that Antiochian Orthodox still maintain this practice. Melkite Catholics do too. (I wasn't really sure what the practice in other churches was, until I started looking into it this afternoon. Which is what led me to this thread.)
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2013, 04:46:05 PM »

We have a fan too.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
ilyazhito
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 885



« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2013, 07:48:21 PM »

At least the Slavonic service book (Jordanville?) still maintains directions for the deacon using the fan on the gifts during the Anaphora. If I was using the fan, I would pick it up, fan until "Singing the hymn of victory...", do the shtick with the star, take back the fan, point at the gifts, lift the chalice and diskos, and fan again until the consecration of the gifts. Then I would finally set the fan aside. Would this be the proper way to do it?
Logged
zekarja
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 745


O Holy Prophet Zechariah, intercede to God for us!


« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2013, 04:35:16 PM »

At least the Slavonic service book (Jordanville?) still maintains directions for the deacon using the fan on the gifts during the Anaphora. If I was using the fan, I would pick it up, fan until "Singing the hymn of victory...", do the shtick with the star, take back the fan, point at the gifts, lift the chalice and diskos, and fan again until the consecration of the gifts. Then I would finally set the fan aside. Would this be the proper way to do it?

In my Melkite parish, the deacon fans the gifts at each Divine Liturgy. The above sounds like what my parish's deacon does. Smiley
Logged

Tags: deacons Ordination 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.119 seconds with 60 queries.