Author Topic: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church  (Read 11945 times)

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Offline stashko

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2009, 10:46:48 PM »
Its posted in the news he's married to her now...
Are congrats and many years in order now.....
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 11:02:53 PM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2009, 10:51:07 PM »
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline stashko

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2009, 11:02:25 PM »
I rather see him this way married,,, than him still being a Catholic priest and continuing by having a hidden love affair....


So yes he has my congrats and many many years to him and his bride.....
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2009, 11:26:00 PM »
Abortion is a blessing? I would sure hate to be in her shoes on Judgement Day.

Will we have shoes on, on Judgement Day? ....hmm :-\

Maybe not on Judgement, but in Heaven? Yes, says the old Negro Spiritual:
Quote
   I got shoes, you got shoes
   All God's children got shoes.
   When I get to Heaven gonna put on my shoes,
   Gonna walk all over God's Heaven, Heaven, Heaven.
   Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven, ain't going there, Heaven,
      Heaven,
   Gonna walk all over God's Heaven.

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #94 on: June 17, 2009, 11:54:12 PM »
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?


Would you feel the same way if, instead he broke his vows to the church, he broke them to (what would be) his (first) wife?

This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterwards), chances aren't good.....
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #95 on: June 18, 2009, 12:33:05 AM »
Abortion is a blessing? I would sure hate to be in her shoes on Judgement Day.

Will we have shoes on, on Judgement Day? ....hmm :-\

Maybe not on Judgement, but in Heaven? Yes, says the old Negro Spiritual:
Quote
   I got shoes, you got shoes
   All God's children got shoes.
   When I get to Heaven gonna put on my shoes,
   Gonna walk all over God's Heaven, Heaven, Heaven.
   Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven, ain't going there, Heaven,
      Heaven,
   Gonna walk all over God's Heaven.


I'm tapping my foot :)
There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #96 on: June 18, 2009, 12:57:57 AM »
This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterward), chances aren't good...

Great analogy!  I never would have thought of referring to this union as feces with the potential for positive outgrowth.  Cheers!   :D

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #97 on: June 18, 2009, 12:59:35 AM »
What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?

Still waiting...  ;D

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #98 on: June 18, 2009, 01:15:21 AM »
What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?

Still waiting...  ;D
E.g., the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #99 on: June 18, 2009, 09:13:06 AM »
What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?

Still waiting...  ;D

The High Priestess of the Church of Camp:



Some of her disciples:



In this religion there is only one commandment:

Be Fabulous.


Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #100 on: June 18, 2009, 09:24:29 AM »
What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?

Still waiting...  ;D

The High Priestess of the Church of Camp:



Some of her disciples:



In this religion there is only one commandment:

Be Fabulous.


Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline monkvasyl

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #101 on: June 18, 2009, 09:32:59 AM »
What are they referring to with "rituals of camp"?

Still waiting...  ;D

The closest I will come to defining "camp" is to use the example of 2 TV series:  Batman & Dark Shadows.  Batman was just so silly and over the top and Dark Shadows (a show I loved as a child...still do) is considered camp due to its over exaggerated acting...like Grayson Hall as Dr. Hoffman.  I remember when Pope John Paul II came to San Francisco, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, leas a protest against His Holiness.  What an embarrassment to the USA.
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #102 on: June 18, 2009, 02:14:28 PM »
This was taken from the Episcopal Divinity School website:

Quote
The curriculum and course listings at Episcopal Divinity School are structured around the seven theological disciplines, the canonical areas required of candidates for ordination in the Episcopal Church: Biblical, Historical, Liturgical, Theological, Ethical, Pastoral, and Studies in Contemporary Society. In addition, EDS emphasizes throughout the curriculum three particular Areas of Emphasis, which intersect these seven theological disciplines and each other: Anglican, Global, and Ecumenical Studies (AGE); Congregational Studies (CSt); and Studies in Feminist Liberation Theologies (FLT). Together they promote an integrated theological education that is rooted in local communities of faith, committed to liberatory praxis, and critically engaged with global and ecumenical issues.

That really says it all.  This is more about political activism than the traditional gospel of Christ.

Their course listing is unreal:

http://www.eds.edu/sec.asp?pageID=88

Third World Feminist Theology

Transforming Mission: Towards a Post-Modern Missiology

Liberating Jesus

Eros, Sexuality, and the Spirit

Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #103 on: June 18, 2009, 04:14:03 PM »
Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.

Totally fabulous!  ;)

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #104 on: June 18, 2009, 04:38:47 PM »
Their course listing is unreal:

http://www.eds.edu/sec.asp?pageID=88

Third World Feminist Theology

Transforming Mission: Towards a Post-Modern Missiology

Liberating Jesus

Eros, Sexuality, and the Spirit

Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction

Consider the description of Liberating Jesus: "Retreat-style introduction to feminist, womanist, postcolonial, and other christologies of liberation."

Sounds more like my postmodern theorist-dominated English department at uni than anything bearing resemblance to Christianity.

Another... Feminist Theories and Theologizing:

"This course introduces the student to varieties of feminist theories and theorists, e.g. liberal feminism, radical feminism, Marxist feminism, postcolonial feminism, womanist theorists, and Asian-American feminism, in order to provide a theoretical foundation for theologizing on behalf of women. This course fulfills the "feminist theory" requirement for the MATS student concentrating in FLT."


All of this smacks of a desperate desire to appear as trendy as possible to secularist progressive circles.

Of course, the following is the most fashionable "cause" of all right now:

Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction:

"This course will introduce students to significant Christian theological and ethical materials on sexuality that have emerged in Western Christianity since the 1970's. We will consider theologically, shifts in interests and emphases from "homosexual" (pre-1969) to "gay/lesbian" (1970-80's) to "lgbt" and "queer" (1990's-present). Special attention will be given to some of the most pressing theo-ethical matters facing queer Christians today, such as what our[?] best leadership roles might be in an increasingly repressive [!!!!! :o] society."

Offline Rosehip

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #105 on: June 18, 2009, 04:49:53 PM »
Lord, have mercy!! :o
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #106 on: June 18, 2009, 06:24:39 PM »
Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.

Totally fabulous!  ;)

Supposedly this is so she can marry her partner: which raises the question.

If Chastity became a man, would her partner cease to be a lesbian?

And if so, why does she not go for a real man anyways now?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #107 on: June 18, 2009, 06:36:35 PM »
Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.

Totally fabulous!  ;)

Supposedly this is so she can marry her partner: which raises the question.

If Chastity became a man, would her partner cease to be a lesbian?

And if so, why does she not go for a real man anyways now?
It's complicated.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #108 on: June 18, 2009, 06:41:30 PM »
Btw, I hear the Chasity is having a sex change.

Totally fabulous!  ;)

Supposedly this is so she can marry her partner: which raises the question.

If Chastity became a man, would her partner cease to be a lesbian?

And if so, why does she not go for a real man anyways now?
It's complicated.

I'm sure it is.  Personally I've always thought of myself as a lesbian trapped in a man's body. :P
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #109 on: June 18, 2009, 07:35:04 PM »
Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction:

"This course will introduce students to significant Christian theological and ethical materials on sexuality that have emerged in Western Christianity since the 1970's. We will consider theologically, shifts in interests and emphases from "homosexual" (pre-1969) to "gay/lesbian" (1970-80's) to "lgbt" and "queer" (1990's-present). Special attention will be given to some of the most pressing theo-ethical matters facing queer Christians today, such as what our[?] best leadership roles might be in an increasingly repressive [!!!!! :o] society."

Things are moving in their direction.  Gay marriage is inevitable, then polygamy, then consensual bestiality.  OK, maybe not the last one.  I really don't see things as being increasingly "repressive."  Traditional Christian values are out; "progressive" "values" are all the rage.

Although I can't say I'm entirely opposed to the government sanctioning homosexual unions.  It's one of those things I go back and forth on.  I wonder if eventually some (non-US) governments will require all religious institutions to perform homosexual marriages under hate crime prevention legislation or something like that.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #110 on: June 18, 2009, 08:47:59 PM »
I'm sure it is.  Personally I've always thought of myself as a lesbian trapped in a man's body. :P

LMAO  :D

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #111 on: June 18, 2009, 08:53:14 PM »
Homosexuality: Theological and Ethical Introduction:

"This course will introduce students to significant Christian theological and ethical materials on sexuality that have emerged in Western Christianity since the 1970's. We will consider theologically, shifts in interests and emphases from "homosexual" (pre-1969) to "gay/lesbian" (1970-80's) to "lgbt" and "queer" (1990's-present). Special attention will be given to some of the most pressing theo-ethical matters facing queer Christians today, such as what our[?] best leadership roles might be in an increasingly repressive [!!!!! :o] society."

Things are moving in their direction.  Gay marriage is inevitable, then polygamy, then consensual bestiality.  OK, maybe not the last one. 

You mean you don't need Bambi's consent. :o

Quote
Although I can't say I'm entirely opposed to the government sanctioning homosexual unions.  It's one of those things I go back and forth on.  I wonder if eventually some (non-US) governments will require all religious institutions to perform homosexual marriages under hate crime prevention legislation or something like that.

Don't worry.

They will.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 08:54:34 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Ebor

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #112 on: June 18, 2009, 09:11:41 PM »
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?


Would you feel the same way if, instead he broke his vows to the church, he broke them to (what would be) his (first) wife?

If going along the lines of a person trying harder to make things work, yes, I could see giving good wishes that this time would be a renewal after a fall and repenting.

Quote
This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterwards), chances aren't good.....

I don't know the man or the woman personally and I suspect that no one else here does either.  I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt that they have repented of a mistake or fall and that they will try harder this time.  People can also have things happen in life that they didn't look for or changes that come from unexpected circumstances or situations in which other people do things to them.  I will choose mercy and not judging other people that I don't know rather then declarations about strangers and their lives.

As a side note, none of the people or characters in the pictures are Anglican, though I suppose some might be RC. So while lurid they don't seem to have any application to the topic.


Ebor
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 09:12:07 PM by Ebor »
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #113 on: June 18, 2009, 09:17:11 PM »
I attending a RC seminary before becoming Orthodox back in the late 70's...Minor seminaries were already a thing of the past. 

My friend was RC back in the 50s and 60s. Thank you for the information that the minor seminaries are not around any more.  It was my friend's thought that a boy being in such a situation during the adolescent and young adult years in effect kept some in an emotionally immature state so that they could not relate to others as adult males once they were ordained and given parishes. 
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #114 on: June 18, 2009, 09:30:17 PM »
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?


Would you feel the same way if, instead he broke his vows to the church, he broke them to (what would be) his (first) wife?

If going along the lines of a person trying harder to make things work, yes, I could see giving good wishes that this time would be a renewal after a fall and repenting.
Do you see any repenting going on?  I seem to have missed it.


This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterwards), chances aren't good.....

I don't know the man or the woman personally and I suspect that no one else here does either.  I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt that they have repented of a mistake or fall and that they will try harder this time.  People can also have things happen in life that they didn't look for or changes that come from unexpected circumstances or situations in which other people do things to them.  I will choose mercy and not judging other people that I don't know rather then declarations about strangers and their lives.

No, if he had shut up, there might have been a point there. But it seems he is out to prove something, so no, when he went on to announce his defection to the Anglicans and scandalize the flock, no doubt is extended.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Ebor

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #115 on: June 18, 2009, 09:42:34 PM »
Well, since neither of us is privy to his personal conversations, confessions or thoughts, I'm not going to make any assumptions on another person's mind, heart or soul.  If he married the woman, he is trying to do something right. 

A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...   May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Dismas84

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #116 on: June 18, 2009, 09:51:21 PM »
A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...   May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life

True...I wonder what this priest's congregation is thinking right now.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #117 on: June 18, 2009, 09:54:42 PM »
Well, since neither of us is privy to his personal conversations, confessions or thoughts, I'm not going to make any assumptions on another person's mind, heart or soul. 

He got in front of a microphone, before a camera, and opened his mouth.  You have a right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you....

(for our non-American friends:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_right#Typical_usage
(btw, Miranda was as guilty as sin, and after a life of crime before and after Mirada v. Arizona)
Quote
On January 31, 1976, a violent fight broke out and Miranda received a mortal knife wound; he was pronounced dead on arrival at Good Samaritan Hospital. He was 34 years old. Police officers apprehended a male shortly afterwards and read him his Miranda rights from a small rectangular card. However, the suspect refused to cooperate with police and took advantage of his right to remain silent. According to one source, Miranda's killer could not be prosecuted because he fled to Mexico


Quote
If he married the woman, he is trying to do something right.

Or try to cover up the scandal.

Would ECUSA accept him if he didn't marry the woman?

Why didn't he ask for release to marry, before he was caught?

Quote
A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...   May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life
I'm beginning to see the Vatican line on Henry VIII
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #118 on: June 18, 2009, 09:55:30 PM »
A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...   May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life

True...I wonder what this priest's congregation is thinking right now.

Google, you'll see. If you can read Spanish, even more.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Marc1152

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #119 on: June 18, 2009, 10:00:08 PM »
Why would one not wish a couple a long, faithful and happy marriage?


Would you feel the same way if, instead he broke his vows to the church, he broke them to (what would be) his (first) wife?

If going along the lines of a person trying harder to make things work, yes, I could see giving good wishes that this time would be a renewal after a fall and repenting.
Do you see any repenting going on?  I seem to have missed it.


This reeks of deceit.  May it be fertilizer for a rose blossom, but things like this, with this much duplicity (both with his affair, and then his "translation" afterwards), chances aren't good.....

I don't know the man or the woman personally and I suspect that no one else here does either.  I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt that they have repented of a mistake or fall and that they will try harder this time.  People can also have things happen in life that they didn't look for or changes that come from unexpected circumstances or situations in which other people do things to them.  I will choose mercy and not judging other people that I don't know rather then declarations about strangers and their lives.

No, if he had shut up, there might have been a point there. But it seems he is out to prove something, so no, when he went on to announce his defection to the Anglicans and scandalize the flock, no doubt is extended.

I smell a book deal coming......
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Ebor

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #120 on: June 18, 2009, 10:08:11 PM »
Quote
If he married the woman, he is trying to do something right.

Or try to cover up the scandal.

Some may choose to think worse of others....

Quote
Would ECUSA accept him if he didn't marry the woman?

As what?  A member?  Probably. But I'm not a bishop. That's not for me to decide.

One wonders if such declarations of breaking vows and how terrible it is would be being tossed around if the gentleman in question had decided to become EO. Would that be betrayal o promises or "coming "Home""?   :-\

Quote
Why didn't he ask for release to marry, before he was caught?

I don't know. He does and God does and one would hope that he did speak plainly and opening to both the RC and ECUSA bishops.  He is a human being with free will and his reasons whatever they are. 

Ebor
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #121 on: June 18, 2009, 10:11:02 PM »
A former priest of mine did "defect" if I were to use your word, but I don't, I just would say that he became RC.  I know something of what a flock feels when a shepherd goes elsewhere and I will choose mercy and not judging even in the midst of pain...   May we all be given mercy in the Dark Hours of life

True...I wonder what this priest's congregation is thinking right now.

Probably a good bit of confusion and pain and grief and wondering how it could have happened and what does the deed say about what he was preaching and the sacraments he did before he left and some anger and feelings of being betrayed and abandoned.....

I've been there as have other Episcopalians I know
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Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #122 on: June 19, 2009, 12:23:31 AM »

One wonders if such declarations of breaking vows and how terrible it is would be being tossed around if the gentleman in question had decided to become EO. Would that be betrayal o promises or "coming "Home""?   :-\


That is an easy question to answer. No way, no how would the EO accept him like this. Perhaps after a lengthy period of repentance and instruction, but not in short order and with a public media circus celebrating his infidelity.

EO may not be Catholics, but I am pretty confident they would not make a joke of their Church in a desperate attempt to stick their finger in the eye of the Catholic Church.

Bishop Frade showed what kind of prelate and man he is with his childish response to the Catholic Archbishop of Miami's complaints about the showboating going on: "The Inquisition is over."*

*Source: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/southflorida/story/1086748.html
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 12:28:54 AM by lubeltri »

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #123 on: June 19, 2009, 12:28:06 AM »
Another telling thing about Bishop Frade from that article:

Frade has been an outspoken proponent of gay rights. In 2003, he was the only one of Florida's five Episcopal bishops to support the Rt. Rev. V. Gene Robinson, who is openly gay, as bishop of New Hampshire. ''You have to understand that I am the bishop of Key West, the bishop of South Beach, of Fort Lauderdale,'' he told The Herald at the time.

So, for him, his "constituency" is more important than Holy Scripture in determining Christian moral teaching.


Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #124 on: June 19, 2009, 12:33:57 AM »
I don't mean any disrespect, and Bishop Frade doesn't speak for the entire Episcopal Church, but I think his words and actions have been pretty unbecoming of a Christian prelate.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #125 on: June 19, 2009, 12:35:51 AM »
As a side note, none of the people or characters in the pictures are Anglican, though I suppose some might be RC. So while lurid they don't seem to have any application to the topic.

No doubt. The photos were an illustration of camp (in response to the query of another poster), not of Anglicans. For some reason camp is easier to show than to describe.  ;)

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #126 on: June 19, 2009, 01:11:32 AM »
Quote
Although I can't say I'm entirely opposed to the government sanctioning homosexual unions.  It's one of those things I go back and forth on.  I wonder if eventually some (non-US) governments will require all religious institutions to perform homosexual marriages under hate crime prevention legislation or something like that.
Don't worry.  They will.

I'm not so sure.  At least about it happening in the Unites States.  As far as I know, the religious institutions here are free to believe whatever they want to.  A church can refuse to marry an interracial couple on religious grounds, can they not?

The flip side of the coin is that no self-respecting person in our society would be part of such a church.  That is because social standards and morality have shifted on the issue.  So do Christians need to fear the same erosion fifty years down the line with regard to homosexuality?  When all states universally accept homosexual marriage, it will inevitably shift the mainstream culture's sense of morality on the issue.  Those churches which do not bow to the dominant ethos might become the outcasts.  So there seems to be a relation between common law and morality.

The arguments for homosexual marriage are also based on a different kind of morality, so either way this isn't about being objective, it's about being morally upright.  So part of the responsibility falls on believers to show what is immoral about homosexuality to begin with, beyond the written words of the Holy Scriptures.

Like I said, in my mind I go back and forth; back and forth on the issue.  I simultaneously support and oppose homosexual marriage based on conflicting religious principles against the need for acceptance and personal accountability in a pluralistic society.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #127 on: June 19, 2009, 01:34:05 AM »
Quote
If he married the woman, he is trying to do something right.

Or try to cover up the scandal.

Some may choose to think worse of others....

Quote
Would ECUSA accept him if he didn't marry the woman?

As what?  A member?  Probably. But I'm not a bishop. That's not for me to decide.

One wonders if such declarations of breaking vows and how terrible it is would be being tossed around if the gentleman in question had decided to become EO. Would that be betrayal o promises or "coming "Home""?   :-\

No need to wonder.  It has happened.  They were received as laymen, as they had married after ordination.

Why didn't he ask for release to marry, before he was caught?

I don't know. He does and God does and one would hope that he did speak plainly and opening to both the RC and ECUSA bishops.  He is a human being with free will and his reasons whatever they are. 

Ebor

According to the RC bishop, he was far from plain speaking.  Rather sneaky.  I'll take his word over the newly minted ECUSA priest, and for that matter that of the ECUSA bishop who took him.
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Offline stanley123

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #128 on: June 19, 2009, 01:43:16 AM »
  A church can refuse to marry an interracial couple on religious grounds, can they not?
Which church are you talking about that has that policy?

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #129 on: June 19, 2009, 01:54:02 AM »
Which church are you talking about that has that policy?

I had no specific church in mind.  I was just bringing up that it would be permitted by the US government, since there is no regulation on religious belief.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #130 on: June 19, 2009, 01:54:37 AM »
Quote
Although I can't say I'm entirely opposed to the government sanctioning homosexual unions.  It's one of those things I go back and forth on.  I wonder if eventually some (non-US) governments will require all religious institutions to perform homosexual marriages under hate crime prevention legislation or something like that.
Don't worry.  They will.

I'm not so sure.  At least about it happening in the Unites States.  As far as I know, the religious institutions here are free to believe whatever they want to.  A church can refuse to marry an interracial couple on religious grounds, can they not?

The flip side of the coin is that no self-respecting person in our society would be part of such a church.  That is because social standards and morality have shifted on the issue.  So do Christians need to fear the same erosion fifty years down the line with regard to homosexuality?  When all states universally accept homosexual marriage, it will inevitably shift the mainstream culture's sense of morality on the issue.  Those churches which do not bow to the dominant ethos might become the outcasts.  So there seems to be a relation between common law and morality.

The arguments for homosexual marriage are also based on a different kind of morality, so either way this isn't about being objective, it's about being morally upright.  So part of the responsibility falls on believers to show what is immoral about homosexuality to begin with, beyond the written words of the Holy Scriptures.

Like I said, in my mind I go back and forth; back and forth on the issue.  I simultaneously support and oppose homosexual marriage based on conflicting religious principles against the need for acceptance and personal accountability in a pluralistic society.

Response a little political, so I put it here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,17609.new.html#new
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #131 on: January 04, 2011, 06:37:53 PM »
In the Roman Catholic Church, a scandal is not really a scandal until it becomes public,” Cutie writes in his new book, Dilemma: A Priest’s Struggle with Faith and Love, which hits stores Tuesday (Jan. 4).
....
As Cutie describes it in his book, his move to the Episcopal Church was not as quick and convenient as it appeared. In fact, he says his dissatisfaction with the Catholic Church had stewed for several years.

The scandal only intensified his disillusionment with a church he now describes as “incompetent,” “inhumane,” “merciless” and an “ideological dictatorship.”

“The church doesn’t need my help to tarnish its image,” Cutie said in an interview from his new office at the Episcopal Church of the Resurrection near Miami. “The institution has done plenty to tarnish its own image.”
....
“My life was all about work, but there was something in my life that was missing, a big empty hole: intimacy,” he said. “And I would ask whether (celibacy) was really God’s rule and what God wants or a man-made rule and what the church wants.”

The harsh treatment of priests who were ousted during the clergy abuse scandal that erupted in 2002 only fueled Cutie’s disillusionment, and he knew that mandatory celibacy was part of the problem.

“This is one of the real scandals nobody wants to see in the church: good people, mostly good men, who are so lonely on the inside that they are often driven to satisfy basic human emotional and physical needs in all the wrong ways,” he writes.
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Offline stashko

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #132 on: January 05, 2011, 02:58:15 AM »
Hopefully he will abandon the Episcopalians, and join The Holy Orthodox church as married Clergy....There By the Grace Of....It would be a rare Find to get a healthy ,heterosexual  married Catholic priest from the latin Church ,if they don't want him ,some part of Holy Orthodoxy will make room for him and the Misses..... ;D
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #133 on: January 07, 2011, 02:30:43 PM »
Hopefully he will abandon the Episcopalians, and join The Holy Orthodox church as married Clergy....There By the Grace Of....It would be a rare Find to get a healthy ,heterosexual  married Catholic priest from the latin Church ,if they don't want him ,some part of Holy Orthodoxy will make room for him and the Misses..... ;D

LOL, please take that whiny, self-pitying, narcissistic media whore. The ECUSA already has enough of that with Gene Robinson.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Priest who broke celibacy vow joins Episcopal Church
« Reply #134 on: January 07, 2011, 02:36:33 PM »
Hopefully he will abandon the Episcopalians, and join The Holy Orthodox church as married Clergy....There By the Grace Of....It would be a rare Find to get a healthy ,heterosexual  married Catholic priest from the latin Church ,if they don't want him ,some part of Holy Orthodoxy will make room for him and the Misses..... ;D

Uh-oh.  ;)

« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 02:41:15 PM by lubeltri »