Topic: Headcoverings Revisited

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

As I think was mentioned at some point in this thread a long time ago, most women just do what the majority of the other women in the parish are doing.  It's more about not standing out than anything.  At my parish, almost all of the women cover, so even visitors are uncomfortable if they are not covered, if nothing else because they feel like they stick out like a sore thumb. I suppose the same applies to women in parishes where no women cover.

Gebre, I would suspect this might have something to do with your wife covering in one setting and not in another.  Do any of the women cover at the Greek parish in your town?

I notice one or two older women who always cover their heads. And I always make sure my daughter covers her head. She loves to wear her head covering, and she feels that it's a special thing that women get to do.

But yeah, I think you're correct about just fitting in. Some women may feel that it would be ostentatiously pious to wear a head covering at a parsih where no one else does. I can totally understand that. Again, modesty is the important thing- for men and women alike.


Selam

[katherineofdixie]

As I think was mentioned at some point in this thread a long time ago, most women just do what the majority of the other women in the parish are doing.  It's more about not standing out than anything.  At my parish, almost all of the women cover, so even visitors are uncomfortable if they are not covered, if nothing else because they feel like they stick out like a sore thumb. I suppose the same applies to women in parishes where no women cover.

Gebre, I would suspect this might have something to do with your wife covering in one setting and not in another.  Do any of the women cover at the Greek parish in your town?

I notice one or two older women who always cover their heads. And I always make sure my daughter covers her head. She loves to wear her head covering, and she feels that it's a special thing that women get to do.

But yeah, I think you're correct about just fitting in. Some women may feel that it would be ostentatiously pious to wear a head covering at a parsih where no one else does. I can totally understand that. Again, modesty is the important thing- for men and women alike.


Selam

When we became members of our OCA parish, the majority of women wore headcoverings. Now it's about half and half. Nobody beats anybody up about it. I decided to follow the custom of the parish at the time, and now it feels "normal." We had Pan-Orthodox Vespers at a ROCOR parish and all the women wore headcoverings. However, when I attend services at other parishes, such as the Greek or Antiochian, I don't wear a headcovering, because generally the ladies there do not, and I want to follow their custom so I don't stand out.
(although I always have a scarf in my bag, just in case!)

[GabrieltheCelt]

No.

I would question someone who claims to be Orthodox and cites from a Bible where the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13, The Message) looks like:

 I second that.  But I'd go a little further and say that The Message ain't the Bible.

[xuxana]

i dont do the lord's prayer from the message. i do the standard that we all do i READ the message bible and i cite it because i can understand what they are saying.

reading the message bible or not has nothing to do with being orthodox.  i am well aware that it is a paraphrase. but i still choose to use it as a devotional because KJV is very dry & boring to me.

[Orual]

I cover my head no matter what parish I'm in, because I think it should be about God, not the other people in the parish.  It's lamentable if it provides a stumbling block for them, but that's not something I can control, and won't be helped if I don't cover my head.

[Salpy]

^ Yeah, what she said.

[Salpy]

That being said, I do understand those who don't cover when they are in a parish where no one wears a head covering.  It can draw attention to oneself, and it can be perceived as being "pretentiously pious." 

[Lauren_Elisse]

This is strange for me to say, living in America, we don't have public codes for dress that are as strict as other countries.
I feel that even though it's great to have the freedom, it would be more preferable to me to be in a country where women and men wear head coverings, and they show no body form, or skin.
Just because I don't want men and their thoughts to be diluted by my being or mine by theirs.
Head Coverings = Good

[GabrieltheCelt]

That being said, I do understand those who don't cover when they are in a parish where no one wears a head covering.  It can draw attention to oneself, and it can be perceived as being "pretentiously pious." 

Sure.  But then we're falling into the trap of pride, I think.  That is, we want others to like us and not feel like we're being judged.  I recall a verse in the Cherubic Hymn that goes, "Let us now lay aside all earthly cares...".  Really, as much as is possible, we ought to have this at the forefront of our minds wherever we Christians walk.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

This is strange for me to say, living in America, we don't have public codes for dress that are as strict as other countries.
I feel that even though it's great to have the freedom, it would be more preferable to me to be in a country where women and men wear head coverings, and they show no body form, or skin.
Just because I don't want men and their thoughts to be diluted by my being or mine by theirs.
Head Coverings = Good

Your words are a beautiful expression of the spirit of humility and concern for others that we all should embrace. God bless you.


Selam

[Punch]

This is strange for me to say, living in America, we don't have public codes for dress that are as strict as other countries.
I feel that even though it's great to have the freedom, it would be more preferable to me to be in a country where women and men wear head coverings, and they show no body form, or skin.
Just because I don't want men and their thoughts to be diluted by my being or mine by theirs.
Head Coverings = Good

You are correct.  Most of us that have worked in a Corporate office know the truth of this.  What is a tie, other than a symbol of servitude (I have called it other things, but not on a religious forum).  I have worked in a power plant for most of my adult life.  I can imagine what would be said if I came to work in far more comfortable Middle Eastern or Indian dress!  It always amazes me that we can conform to the World, but we cannot bring ourselves to conform to some of God's most simple commands.  Love my neighbor?  VERY hard.  Put a scarf on in Church?  I only wish all commands were so easy.  Your humility is most beautiful. 

[zoarthegleaner]

The requirement to wear a head covering in Church has come to be viewed as oppressive.

To forbid the wearing make-up (a kind of Face Covering) is viewed as oppressive.

I know of one Orthodox Priest who forbade some parishioners from coming to Services dressed as Vampires; they too thought this attitude was oppressive.

John

[Wilma]

I cover my head full time. I do it because I want to follow the Holy Theotokos example, because of Corinthians, the angels, and because we are called to pray without ceasing.

I don't wear make-up to church because I don't want to kiss an icon or the priest's hand and leave a mark  But for work I wear a bit of lip gloss so I don't look so pale. I also prefer to wear skirts to church, but to work I also wear trousers and modest shirts.

It is a challenge sometimes because as any woman, I sometimes feel like I want to show off my long hair, sometimes the scarf bothers me, or people at my workplace bully me. They have called me many names and have reffered to me as raghead....but you know what? It keeps me grounded! If Jesus went through so much humiliation from the people He gave His life for, I can put up with being humiliated by people I don't care much about.

I don't think the scarf makes me hollier or even pius, I just think it is like a living prayer. Talking the talk is easy, but wearig a head covering makes my walk harder than it coult be, therefore it humbles my horrible pride.

[Cyrillic]

It's alive!

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I cover my head full time. I do it because I want to follow the Holy Theotokos example, because of Corinthians, the angels, and because we are called to pray without ceasing.

I don't wear make-up to church because I don't want to kiss an icon or the priest's hand and leave a mark  But for work I wear a bit of lip gloss so I don't look so pale. I also prefer to wear skirts to church, but to work I also wear trousers and modest shirts.

It is a challenge sometimes because as any woman, I sometimes feel like I want to show off my long hair, sometimes the scarf bothers me, or people at my workplace bully me. They have called me many names and have reffered to me as raghead....but you know what? It keeps me grounded! If Jesus went through so much humiliation from the people He gave His life for, I can put up with being humiliated by people I don't care much about.

I don't think the scarf makes me hollier or even pius, I just think it is like a living prayer. Talking the talk is easy, but wearig a head covering makes my walk harder than it coult be, therefore it humbles my horrible pride.

Thank you so much for your wonderful example. Don't let anyone discourage you from your Orthodox convictions.


Selam

[Karaleighmum]

Is the modern change in praxis to be justified? I don't know. Fortunately, this is not too much of an issue at my parish, because almost everyone covers their heads. It's only since I've been active on this site that I am realizing that many Orthodox churches have not retained this custom. Personally, I think it's sad that they've lost it-I like it. One of our posters, Amdetsion (sp?), an Ethiopian Orthodox deacon, had a great post once, in which he referred to it as a woman's crown. I really liked that. BTW, I hope Amdetsion is okay...he hasn't posted on here for quite some time...

My goodness! I love that imagery of the woman's crown!! Do you wear your covering all the time, or just during formal prayer? I have been torn as to whether or not I shoudl wear something all the time because I pray frequently  or whether the scripture refferred moreso to formal prayer, i.e. in Church, or whenever I sit down specifically to pray.

[Cantor Krishnich]

I cover my head full time. I do it because I want to follow the Holy Theotokos example, because of Corinthians, the angels, and because we are called to pray without ceasing.

I don't wear make-up to church because I don't want to kiss an icon or the priest's hand and leave a mark  But for work I wear a bit of lip gloss so I don't look so pale. I also prefer to wear skirts to church, but to work I also wear trousers and modest shirts.

It is a challenge sometimes because as any woman, I sometimes feel like I want to show off my long hair, sometimes the scarf bothers me, or people at my workplace bully me. They have called me many names and have reffered to me as raghead....but you know what? It keeps me grounded! If Jesus went through so much humiliation from the people He gave His life for, I can put up with being humiliated by people I don't care much about.

I don't think the scarf makes me hollier or even pius, I just think it is like a living prayer. Talking the talk is easy, but wearig a head covering makes my walk harder than it coult be, therefore it humbles my horrible pride.

Thank you so much for your wonderful example. Don't let anyone discourage you from your Orthodox convictions.


Selam

+1