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Author Topic: Ohio priest James McGonegal accused of soliciting sex in park  (Read 1184 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tallitot
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« on: October 12, 2013, 11:06:22 PM »

"HIV-positive Ohio priest James McGonegal accused of soliciting sex in park.."
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/10/cleveland_ohio_priest_james_mcgonegal_accused_of_soliciting_sex_from_undercover.html
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 11:08:56 PM »

Lord, have mercy.
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 11:13:04 PM »

Well that's no good.

Lord, have mercy.
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2013, 11:29:10 PM »

For God's sake, there are plenty of apps these days to download for free on your smart phone.
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 11:30:57 PM »

For God's sake, there are plenty of apps these days to download for free on your smart phone.

They have apps for priests to find sex partners in parks?
  Wink
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 11:33:38 PM »

For God's sake, there are plenty of apps these days to download for free on your smart phone.

They have apps for priests to find sex partners in parks?
  Wink
if there is enough demand for it i'm sure they'll come up with one . men in cassocks
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 11:34:15 PM »

For God's sake, there are plenty of apps these days to download for free on your smart phone.

They have apps for priests to find sex partners in parks?
  Wink
if there is enough demand for it i'm sure they'll come up with one . men in cassocks
Maps provided by our own ialmisry.
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2013, 09:44:32 AM »

For God's sake, there are plenty of apps these days to download for free on your smart phone.

They have apps for priests to find sex partners in parks?
  Wink
if there is enough demand for it i'm sure they'll come up with one . men in cassocks
Maps provided by our own ialmisry.

And maybe a cartoon that has no relevance whatsoever.
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2013, 09:45:57 AM »

Abusive Catholic priests and antimonarchism are the only things Tallitot can talk about. I wonder what are the reasons.
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2013, 10:06:50 AM »

Either I have lost my sense of humour or my reaction to such a topic, which is great sadness, struggles to find anything funny in it at all.

And quite why such unhappy news here on an Orthodox Christian website certainly escapes my ageing brain.
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2013, 12:19:54 PM »

Abusive Catholic priests and antimonarchism are the only things Tallitot can talk about. I wonder what are the reasons.

He's a spiteful, hateful, depressed little man sees such things as vindication to go to Judaism  That's why.
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2013, 12:59:51 PM »

Abusive Catholic priests and antimonarchism are the only things Tallitot can talk about. I wonder what are the reasons.

He's a spiteful, hateful, depressed little man sees such things as vindication to go to Judaism  That's why.

Well, that was... direct.
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2013, 01:12:52 PM »

Abusive Catholic priests and antimonarchism are the only things Tallitot can talk about. I wonder what are the reasons.

He's a spiteful, hateful, depressed little man sees such things as vindication to go to Judaism  That's why.

Well, that was... direct.

I'm nothing but...unfortunately. Wink

Hey, Tallitot, you want to make any comments on this thread?  So much for Practioners of Judaism being above reproach.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,54217.0/topicseen.html
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 01:16:25 PM by scamandrius » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2013, 01:23:25 PM »

Abusive Catholic priests and antimonarchism are the only things Tallitot can talk about. I wonder what are the reasons.

He's a spiteful, hateful, depressed little man sees such things as vindication to go to Judaism  That's why.

Well, that was... direct.

I'm nothing but...unfortunately. Wink

Hey, Tallitot, you want to make any comments on this thread?  So much for Practioners of Judaism being above reproach.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,54217.0/topicseen.html
when did I say they were above reproach?
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2013, 08:41:44 PM »

You never did, true.  However, you always post articles about scandals involving christian priests/pastors/important lay people and never about the vices of your confession of faith (and there are plenty out there).  Either you believe that Jews are above reproach or you're just in a state of denial.  Not good, either way.

When you actually post something bad about the people who practice your own confession of faith and comment upon it, I will withdraw that remark.
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2013, 07:13:43 AM »

One thing about clergy sex abuse is that it is not exclusive to Catholic priests.  I googled this for other denominations, and while I could find almost nothing regarding rabbis, I found an overabundance of Protestant abuses in addition to Catholic scandals.  I came to find out the rate of abuse in Protestant churches is at least equal to those in the Catholic church, and some organizations have cropped up to deal with those scandals.  StopBaptistPredators.org is one.  I bookmarked the sites and news stories I found that showed abuse in only Protestant churches, and ended up with 34 bookmarks--links I'll be happy to provide to any interested party, insofar as I don't want to be accused of making a claim and not being able to prove it.  

I also came to find that all of these other denominations, when confronted with charges of abuse, attempted to cover it up, ironically enough, exactly the same way they themselves have/do accuse the Catholic church of doing.  

Having said all that, I cannot fathom any priest with even a shaky faith in God doing this.  How could he not be absolutely terrified?  And how does a Catholic priest get HIV?  Sounds like a profoundly stupid question, but really, that's supposed to be something that does not occur.  A priest with HIV?  Really?  I've heard it all now.  I'm going to take my ball and go home.  Check, please!  Get me outta here.  
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2013, 07:16:13 AM »

And how does a Catholic priest get HIV?  Sounds like a profoundly stupid question, but really, that's supposed to be something that does not occur.  A priest with HIV?  Really?  I've heard it all now.  I'm going to take my ball and go home.  Check, please!  Get me outta here. 

What immoral is in suffering from AIDS, flue or any other disease?
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2013, 07:26:05 AM »

And how does a Catholic priest get HIV?  Sounds like a profoundly stupid question, but really, that's supposed to be something that does not occur.  A priest with HIV?  Really?  I've heard it all now.  I'm going to take my ball and go home.  Check, please!  Get me outta here. 

What immoral is in suffering from AIDS, flue or any other disease?

Rather obvious, ain't it?

If a priest or monk sworn to celibacy contracts HIV or any other disease through sexual transmission, he is morally culpable.  If he becomes infected through slack infection control procedures in a doctor's office or a hospital, or through a tainted blood transfusion, there is no immorality on his part.

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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2013, 07:43:29 AM »

One thing about clergy sex abuse is that it is not exclusive to Catholic priests.  I googled this for other denominations, and while I could find almost nothing regarding rabbis, I found an overabundance of Protestant abuses in addition to Catholic scandals.  I came to find out the rate of abuse in Protestant churches is at least equal to those in the Catholic church, and some organizations have cropped up to deal with those scandals.  StopBaptistPredators.org is one.  I bookmarked the sites and news stories I found that showed abuse in only Protestant churches, and ended up with 34 bookmarks--links I'll be happy to provide to any interested party, insofar as I don't want to be accused of making a claim and not being able to prove it.

I was raised Presbyterian. While he was not the pastor, the greeter at the door of our neighborhood church (who had been in that position for as long as anyone could remember) was convicted in the early 1990s not only of multiple counts of child abuse, but also kidnapping and enslavement (not sure if that's the right legal term; he had hired boys in their young teens to work at his ranch in the summers and apparently had been keeping them there in some sort of weird abuse-brainwashing-farm setup or something; Lord have mercy). After the allegations against him broke, my then-stepmother happened to get herself on the jury that ended up convicting him. She was horrified to realize later that the same man had attempted to get my older brother, who at the time was about 14, to work on his property. Luckily my brother did not accept the offer. Abuse and all kinds of sickness and perversity are human problems, not monopolized by any particular faith or creed.

Quote
Having said all that, I cannot fathom any priest with even a shaky faith in God doing this.  How could he not be absolutely terrified?  And how does a Catholic priest get HIV?  Sounds like a profoundly stupid question, but really, that's supposed to be something that does not occur.  A priest with HIV?  Really?  I've heard it all now.  I'm going to take my ball and go home.  Check, please!  Get me outta here.
 

Well, they're not supposed to have secret families/mistresses or be practicing homosexuals, either, but there have been plenty of those activities in the history (including the modern history) of the RCC, as well as other churches. I suspect it only strikes people as 'worse' in the case of the RCC because they still attempt to maintain a hard line in public against such things, so it looks especially hypocritical to many RC detractors.

I wish this man would not be a priest anymore, though. He is clearly mentally/emotionally, and possibly physically (on account of the HIV infection), unfit for the rigors of the priesthood, and certainly needs help and prayers. I am perhaps a bit more sympathetic than I should be about the terrible shape that the RCC finds itself in as a result of many events like this one, but also I think it shows a fatal flaw of their indelible mark theology. As I understand it, priests are considered to be priests forever, as the character of their ordination marks them permanently as a priest (so it is a kind of ontological change from "regular guy" to "priest"). As such, a criminal or otherwise unfit priest may be laicized in the sense that Rome tells him he can't serve in that capacity anymore, but there doesn't seem to be any way in which he may be "un-ordained", for lack of a better way to put it. In fact, with the Latin phenomenon of Episcopi Vagantes, so long as he was validly ordained in the first place (see, for example, the "Dutch Touch" and other such ridiculousness), there probably wouldn't be anything to stop him from reacting to any church punishment by simply leaving the RCC and continuing to work as a 'priest' elsewhere.

That's sad. I mean, the whole thing's sad, but that there's essentially no safeguard from things like this repeating themselves over and over again once a man is ordained...ugh. I do not envy the RCC, or the many very good priests I was blessed with when I was RC, who I know are especially hurt when things like this happen. It really degrades the whole idea of the priesthood for many, many people.  Sad
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2013, 07:47:05 AM »

How is suffering from AIDS making one physically unfit to be a priest?
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2013, 08:04:02 AM »

And how does a Catholic priest get HIV?  Sounds like a profoundly stupid question, but really, that's supposed to be something that does not occur.  A priest with HIV?  Really?  I've heard it all now.  I'm going to take my ball and go home.  Check, please!  Get me outta here.  

What immoral is in suffering from AIDS, flue or any other disease?

Suffering from AIDS is not immoral, though the manner in which one gets AIDS can be either immoral or innocent.  Could have been a blood transfusion in this case (although I had thought they had gotten that problem locked down) or passed by other innocent means.  I think what really floored me with this was that it's a priest, and one that's been caught in various debaucheries, it's unlikely he contracted the disease in a manner other than that which is, at this point, implied.  Given his conduct, he could have passed it on to others.

By the way, 'flue' is a chimney flue.  Not saying that to be obnoxious--it was just funny when I read it in its context.  If someone's suffering from the flue, does that mean they're stuck?  rofl.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 08:04:27 AM by newtoorthodoxy » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2013, 08:05:48 AM »

How is suffering from AIDS making one physically unfit to be a priest?

I don't think that was the point I was trying to make. 
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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2013, 08:06:47 AM »

How is suffering from AIDS making one physically unfit to be a priest?

I don't think that was the point I was trying to make. 

Dzeremi was trying.
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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2013, 11:34:28 PM »

How is suffering from AIDS making one physically unfit to be a priest?
If he is HIV+ and he was administering communion on the tongue after he given himself communion, some of his saliva could have been on his fingers and transferred to the hosts he was placing in ppl's mouths.

(Also he didn't disclose his status to plainclothes officer until after he was arrested. Apparently he was planning to have sex with someone w/o disclosing. )
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« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2013, 11:53:41 PM »

How is suffering from AIDS making one physically unfit to be a priest?

I don't think that was the point I was trying to make. 

Dzeremi was trying.

There are many diseases which could impede ones ability to be a priest, even apart from AIDS. If your immune system is compromised to the point where you are weakened and cannot handle the stress of serving liturgy (3+ hours standing, chanting, performing prostrations, etc.), it is not unreasonable to think that you might either scale back your service, or maybe even stop serving all together if things get really bad. I don't have AIDS or anything like that (thank God), but there are some times when I am physically unable to attend liturgy due to different health problems, and I have known several priests who have stopped serving liturgy all together or cut down their service to only a few times a year due to the physical limitations they face due to various ailments. May God be with everyone who struggles in such a manner.
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« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2013, 11:58:43 PM »

One thing about clergy sex abuse is that it is not exclusive to Catholic priests.  I googled this for other denominations, and while I could find almost nothing regarding rabbis,...
Did you see this site?
http://iamthewitness.com/listeners/Jewish.child.molesters.that.are.never.on.the.NEWS-WHY.htm
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2013, 12:00:44 AM »

If he is HIV+ and he was administering communion on the tongue after he given himself communion, some of his saliva could have been on his fingers and transferred to the hosts he was placing in ppl's mouths.

I was told that the concentration of virus in saliva was so low as to make this an ineffective means of infecting others.  Is that erroneous information?  
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2013, 12:02:51 AM »

If he is HIV+ and he was administering communion on the tongue after he given himself communion, some of his saliva could have been on his fingers and transferred to the hosts he was placing in ppl's mouths.

I was told that the concentration of virus in saliva was so low as to make this an ineffective means of infecting others.  Is that erroneous information?  
Methinks u be right.
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2013, 12:07:50 AM »

Seems to me the real immorality is not just that he has AIDS (however he got it), but that he's still engaging in activities that could pass it along to others.  (And no, I don't mean administering communion.  Roll Eyes )
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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2013, 12:08:29 AM »

If he is HIV+ and he was administering communion on the tongue after he given himself communion, some of his saliva could have been on his fingers and transferred to the hosts he was placing in ppl's mouths.

I was told that the concentration of virus in saliva was so low as to make this an ineffective means of infecting others.  Is that erroneous information?  
Methinks u be right.

OK, so I'm not making that up.  I just wanted to make sure, and I figure that Tallitot is a nurse, so s/he should know for sure.  

Given the use of unleavened wafers for RC Communion, I wonder what's the likelihood that a self-communing priest would make contact with his own saliva?  
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2013, 12:30:28 AM »

How is suffering from AIDS making one physically unfit to be a priest?
If he is HIV+ and he was administering communion on the tongue after he given himself communion, some of his saliva could have been on his fingers and transferred to the hosts he was placing in ppl's mouths.
If the consecrated host and wine of communion are indeed the Body and Blood of Christ, even in a Roman Catholic church, then how can something so life-giving be the vehicle for sickness and death? (For you Orthodox traditionalists who follow the teaching of St. Cyprian on this, I don't want to start another debate over the "validity" or lack thereof in the sacraments of the Roman Church; we have enough of those as it is. I'm just assuming their sacraments are full of grace for the sake of this discussion.)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 12:33:57 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2013, 12:36:46 AM »

The last I heard was that saliva is either not sufficient to transmit the disease (IOW, it would be extremely rare), or that it can't transmit it at all.  Maybe the enzymes in saliva that break down food at the very first stage of consumption also kill the virus if introduced orally?  I wouldn't know, but the last info I got suggests that no, you can't get AIDS this way.  If Tallitot is a nurse, perhaps he can weigh in on this one.  Either way, I can't swear I'd be comfortable with receiving communion under these circumstances.  I'd rather be shunned for being that way, than do something I found that troubling.  I'll just stay in my pew and y'all can give me the stink eye.  I'm okay with that.  No, really.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 12:38:09 AM by newtoorthodoxy » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2013, 02:16:00 AM »

If he is HIV+ and he was administering communion on the tongue after he given himself communion, some of his saliva could have been on his fingers and transferred to the hosts he was placing in ppl's mouths.

I was told that the concentration of virus in saliva was so low as to make this an ineffective means of infecting others.  Is that erroneous information?  

Yes, unless you have an open wound in your mouth (and the second person does too).
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:16:12 AM by Michał Kalina » Logged
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