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Author Topic: Moral relativism & Orthodoxy  (Read 989 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 28, 2010, 06:21:02 AM »

I think the large number of converts who have taken in relativism since their childhood will pose a significant threat to Orthodoxy in the years to come. Moral & Cultural relativism pervades our culture, which is directly opposed to the Gospel. But I think it is unwise and untrue to assume that such relativism and anti-Christian thinking cannot grow in Orthodoxy, particularly in the US. We are seeing quite a bit of moral decay such as abortion and gay marriage, it's interesting that alot of small voicerous minority groups can influence an opinion to those at large.

I will say on a personal level I am struggling hugely with relativism as a catechumen because I have been subject to so much relativism in my youth; it's a thought process that I battle with daily, as well as my temptations.

Soon enough any moral code one chooses is arbitrary and has no meaning beyond their own vain attempts to apply meaning to it. Even love becomes just a chemical reaction in the brain that increased the survivability of a species by making them more protective of each other. Solipsism: ethics and morality based on one's individual needs/desires....egoistic relativism!

Scary stuff.
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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 10:24:11 AM »

With this being said, I think your point is probably valid here in the US, but within my own experience - the culture itself of Orthodoxy pulls and tugs at the person walking within the faith so much so that the relativism has a much less chance of surviving than Orthodoxy has of being defeated.  Light overcomes darkness - not the opposite way around. 

Last night in my prayers in bed I was overwhelmed with the compromise over and over again yesterday and was brought to repentance.  Today is His.  The confession list may well be long this time, because HE is unwilling to give up HIS beloved Church to evil. 

Have hope.  Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 10:56:24 AM »

I think the large number of converts who have taken in relativism since their childhood will pose a significant threat to Orthodoxy in the years to come.

Lousy converts, always messing things up for the Church! The first order of business at the next meeting of the Episcopal Assembly should be to mandate an ethics seminar for all catechumens. But they'll need a cradle Orthodox lecturer with a stellar reputation. I hear Blagojevich is available.
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 11:16:13 AM »

I think the large number of converts who have taken in relativism since their childhood will pose a significant threat to Orthodoxy in the years to come.
This is a culture-wide phenomenon. If you think cradles in the U.S. are exempt from this kind of thinking by virtue of their Orthodox baptism, think again. Statistically speaking, second- and third- generation Orthodox are not terribly different from the culture surrounding them.

Quote
Solipsism: ethics and morality based on one's individual needs/desires....egoistic relativism!

This is a result of the cultural consumer mindset most people have, and they have dangerously applied it to religion. I agree that converts may have a unique struggle trying to remove themselves from these patterns of thinking, but:

Quote from: quietmorning
the culture itself of Orthodoxy pulls and tugs at the person walking within the faith so much so that the relativism has a much less chance of surviving than Orthodoxy has of being defeated.  
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 11:16:42 AM by Agabus » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 11:34:43 AM »

I don't see it as a danger to Orthodoxy, but as a danger to the souls of converts, and others. Orthodoxy will endure as it always has and always will. People, however, are changeable and need to be alert and watchful, and also humble themselves to the Church's teaching.
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 12:43:12 PM »

I think the large number of converts who have taken in relativism since their childhood will pose a significant threat to Orthodoxy in the years to come.
This is a culture-wide phenomenon. If you think cradles in the U.S. are exempt from this kind of thinking by virtue of their Orthodox baptism, think again. Statistically speaking, second- and third- generation Orthodox are not terribly different from the culture surrounding them.

Quote
Solipsism: ethics and morality based on one's individual needs/desires....egoistic relativism!

This is a result of the cultural consumer mindset most people have, and they have dangerously applied it to religion. I agree that converts may have a unique struggle trying to remove themselves from these patterns of thinking, but:

Quote from: quietmorning
the culture itself of Orthodoxy pulls and tugs at the person walking within the faith so much so that the relativism has a much less chance of surviving than Orthodoxy has of being defeated.  

I think that you also have to keep things in perspective as peoples and cultures are always influenced by both the secular and the religious. In times past there have been other secular trends that endangered the souls of the faithful, but the Church has always been greater than the sum of her parts, so to speak.
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 01:46:08 PM »

I think the large number of converts who have taken in relativism since their childhood will pose a significant threat to Orthodoxy in the years to come.

Lousy converts, always messing things up for the Church! The first order of business at the next meeting of the Episcopal Assembly should be to mandate an ethics seminar for all catechumens. But they'll need a cradle Orthodox lecturer with a stellar reputation. I hear Blagojevich is available.

LOL  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 02:29:45 PM »

I think the large number of converts who have taken in relativism since their childhood will pose a significant threat to Orthodoxy in the years to come.

Lousy converts, always messing things up for the Church! The first order of business at the next meeting of the Episcopal Assembly should be to mandate an ethics seminar for all catechumens. But they'll need a cradle Orthodox lecturer with a stellar reputation. I hear Blagojevich is available.

LOL  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I don't know, you don't really need a 'cradle' for the task....if Blago is locked up...err, I mean indisposed, perhaps you could book Putin?
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 03:07:39 PM »

In America, is the church really up to the task of witnessing the faith? Surely there are compassionate & impressive ministries like IOCC, OCMC, Fr Justin's: FOCUS etc. which I think have born fruition basically at the grassroots level (thanks be to God) & the church would be in greater obscurity here if not for ministries like these. I know the gates of hell will not prevail but how many souls will be ministered to? First generation hierarchs like St. Raphael Hawaweeny corralled the immigrant flock on the grassroots level (perhaps my great grandparents & grandparents among these). This was an obviously important & necessary first phase but has any hierarchy followed up to expand beyond this foundation with the exception of individuals led by the Holy Spirit?
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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2010, 04:01:59 PM »

This is why it is SO VERY IMPORTANT for us to read and study our catechisms.
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2010, 05:39:15 PM »

I think the large number of converts who have taken in relativism since their childhood will pose a significant threat to Orthodoxy in the years to come. Moral & Cultural relativism pervades our culture, which is directly opposed to the Gospel. But I think it is unwise and untrue to assume that such relativism and anti-Christian thinking cannot grow in Orthodoxy, particularly in the US. We are seeing quite a bit of moral decay such as abortion and gay marriage, it's interesting that alot of small voicerous minority groups can influence an opinion to those at large.

I will say on a personal level I am struggling hugely with relativism as a catechumen because I have been subject to so much relativism in my youth; it's a thought process that I battle with daily, as well as my temptations.

Soon enough any moral code one chooses is arbitrary and has no meaning beyond their own vain attempts to apply meaning to it. Even love becomes just a chemical reaction in the brain that increased the survivability of a species by making them more protective of each other. Solipsism: ethics and morality based on one's individual needs/desires....egoistic relativism!

Scary stuff.

So true.  Our Priest was just discussing this in his sermon Sunday.  He said that as Orthodox Christians, we should try to be set apart (a "Royal Priesthood" if you will).  Instead, we see more an more people clamoring for the Church to become more like the society around it rather than standing out as a beacon to the society around it. 
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2010, 05:44:34 PM »

This is why it is SO VERY IMPORTANT for us to read and study our catechisms.

We have catechisms?  laugh Wink
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