Author Topic: jurisdiction transfer  (Read 1673 times)

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Offline scamandrius

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jurisdiction transfer
« on: May 19, 2009, 12:42:53 AM »
I have heard of priests being "canonically released" from one jurisdiction to serve as a priest in another jurisdiction here in the U.S.  Is there any such necessary procedure for laypersons?  If so, what is the procedure? Or are we just to go to Liturgy at an Orthodox Church near where we live regardless of whether we are actual members (christmated/baptized) of that particular jurisdiction?

I ask because I am moving (don't know where yet) but at the same time, I must admit that I am becoming more and more disillusioned with what is going on in the AOCA (and not just because of what is going on with the Bishops) and feel that I would be more comfortable in an old calendar jurisdiction, preferably one that still follows the Greek Typicon than the Slavic.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 12:47:14 AM »
I ask because I am moving (don't know where yet) but at the same time, I must admit that I am becoming more and more disillusioned with what is going on in the AOCA (and not just because of what is going on with the Bishops) and feel that I would be more comfortable in an old calendar jurisdiction, preferably one that still follows the Greek Typicon than the Slavic.

Check out the Greek Old Calendarists; true to the end!

Offline LBK

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 06:23:10 AM »
Check out the Greek Old Calendarists; true to the end!

But most of them are not canonical. Not the best advice, Alveus, unless you were being ironic.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 06:23:48 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2009, 06:26:00 AM »
Not the best advice, Alveus, unless you were being ironic.

Bingo.  Well, sort of.  I actually have a lot of respect for what they represent.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 06:53:54 AM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 06:35:48 AM »
I have heard of priests being "canonically released" from one jurisdiction to serve as a priest in another jurisdiction here in the U.S.  Is there any such necessary procedure for laypersons?  If so, what is the procedure? Or are we just to go to Liturgy at an Orthodox Church near where we live regardless of whether we are actual members (christmated/baptized) of that particular jurisdiction?

I ask because I am moving (don't know where yet) but at the same time, I must admit that I am becoming more and more disillusioned with what is going on in the AOCA (and not just because of what is going on with the Bishops) and feel that I would be more comfortable in an old calendar jurisdiction, preferably one that still follows the Greek Typicon than the Slavic.

You're not going to find a canonical old calendar church on the Greek Typikon in the U.S.A. as far as I know. All of the churches on the Greek Typikon are New Calendar, except for the Holy Land and Mount Athos.

But you do not need a canonical release to attend another Orthodox Church unless you are ordained to one of the orders of the clergy. You may attend liturgy in any of the 15 autocephalous Orthodox churches, although many parishes might ask you to provide a baptism certificate before they agree to commune you.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 07:22:51 AM »
Actually you are supposed to have a letter of introduction from your old priest to the new one, but it is rarely enforced.  The purpose is vouch for you that you are not switching for less than honorable reasons (my ex switched when our priest told her not to come back.  But in time it seems she showed her true colors again, and she was odious at the new parish as well, so skipping the letter didn't do her any good).
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Offline monkvasyl

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 08:56:07 AM »
You're not going to find a canonical old calendar church on the Greek Typikon in the U.S.A. as far as I know. All of the churches on the Greek Typikon are New Calendar, except for the Holy Land and Mount Athos.

But you do not need a canonical release to attend another Orthodox Church unless you are ordained to one of the orders of the clergy. You may attend liturgy in any of the 15 autocephalous Orthodox churches, although many parishes might ask you to provide a baptism certificate before they agree to commune you.

Isn't there a Greek Old Calendar group that is part of the Greek Archdiocese?
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline Fr. George

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 09:26:59 AM »
I have heard of priests being "canonically released" from one jurisdiction to serve as a priest in another jurisdiction here in the U.S.  Is there any such necessary procedure for laypersons?  If so, what is the procedure? Or are we just to go to Liturgy at an Orthodox Church near where we live regardless of whether we are actual members (christmated/baptized) of that particular jurisdiction?

I ask because I am moving (don't know where yet) but at the same time, I must admit that I am becoming more and more disillusioned with what is going on in the AOCA (and not just because of what is going on with the Bishops) and feel that I would be more comfortable in an old calendar jurisdiction, preferably one that still follows the Greek Typicon than the Slavic.

The safest thing to do is just have a letter from your current priest (with his contact information), stating that you're an Orthodox Christian, and have been the member of a parish.  This way, if the parish you go to is particularly guarded about who receives communion (a blessing!), then you'll have the necessary credentials to enter into their sacramental life.
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Offline Thomas

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 09:38:54 AM »
I have heard of priests being "canonically released" from one jurisdiction to serve as a priest in another jurisdiction here in the U.S.  Is there any such necessary procedure for laypersons?  If so, what is the procedure? Or are we just to go to Liturgy at an Orthodox Church near where we live regardless of whether we are actual members (christmated/baptized) of that particular jurisdiction?

I ask because I am moving (don't know where yet) but at the same time, I must admit that I am becoming more and more disillusioned with what is going on in the AOCA (and not just because of what is going on with the Bishops) and feel that I would be more comfortable in an old calendar jurisdiction, preferably one that still follows the Greek Typicon than the Slavic.

I have changed jurisdictions several times as I moved within the military to new posts and into retirement.  All that was really required was for me to get a letter from the priest of the parish I was leaving to verify that I was an Orthodox Christian.  I provided that to my gaining parish's priest and after a confession to that priest, I was able to commune and  become part of my new parish (and its jurisidction).  After I was tonsured as a sub-deacon, I had to notify my bishop where I was being transferred to and he would release me to the jursidiction I was entering.

If one sees him/herself as an American Orthodox Christian (Canadian, etc) the move from one jurisidction to another is relatively easy, what becomes more difficult, as some of my friends attested in the past, was when one sees oneself only as a "Greek" or "Russian" Orthodox etc and where one moves does not have a parish of that jurisdiction they may feel lost and unwelcomed in other jurisdictions.

Thomas
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 02:08:54 PM by Thomas »
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Offline Starlight

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 09:54:48 AM »

Isn't there a Greek Old Calendar group that is part of the Greek Archdiocese?

Do you mean Sacred Patriarchal and Stavropegial Monastery of Saint Irene Chrysovalantou and Dependencies?
http://www.stirene.org/
http://www.stirene.org/resources/admin_dependencies.html
http://www.goarch.org/archdiocese/otherpatriarchal/sta/index_html

Actually, they are a part of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, but not a part of GOA. I visited St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery twice. They have a myrrh extruding icon of their Patron Saint. Really nice experiences. Definitely enjoyable.

As a matter of fact, St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery itself uses New Calendar now. Not sure about all Dependencies. But for me, New Calendar is a plus.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 09:55:17 AM by Starlight »

Offline monkvasyl

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2009, 11:26:53 AM »

Isn't there a Greek Old Calendar group that is part of the Greek Archdiocese?

Do you mean Sacred Patriarchal and Stavropegial Monastery of Saint Irene Chrysovalantou and Dependencies?
http://www.stirene.org/
http://www.stirene.org/resources/admin_dependencies.html
http://www.goarch.org/archdiocese/otherpatriarchal/sta/index_html

Actually, they are a part of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, but not a part of GOA. I visited St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery twice. They have a myrrh extruding icon of their Patron Saint. Really nice experiences. Definitely enjoyable.

As a matter of fact, St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery itself uses New Calendar now. Not sure about all Dependencies. But for me, New Calendar is a plus.

What?!  They changed from the Old to the New Calendar.  Pity.
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline mike

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 01:34:33 PM »
You're not going to find a canonical old calendar church on the Greek Typikon in the U.S.A. as far as I know. All of the churches on the Greek Typikon are New Calendar, except for the Holy Land and Mount Athos.
http://jerusalemusa.org/directory.htm




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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 01:42:16 PM »
What?!  They changed from the Old to the New Calendar.  Pity.

All the stavropegial monasteries of the EP outside Athos that I've encountered have been New Calendar. I assume this is true also of Fr. Ephraim's monasteries?

http://jerusalemusa.org/directory.htm

Thanks. I had forgotten about the presence of JP parishes in America. Am I right in thinking these are now under the jurisdiction of the EP?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 02:17:10 PM »
What?!  They changed from the Old to the New Calendar.  Pity.

All the stavropegial monasteries of the EP outside Athos that I've encountered have been New Calendar. I assume this is true also of Fr. Ephraim's monasteries?

http://jerusalemusa.org/directory.htm

Thanks. I had forgotten about the presence of JP parishes in America. Am I right in thinking these are now under the jurisdiction of the EP?
Depends on who you ask.  The EP says yes.  The phanariot JP says yes.  The parishes evidently say no, as has been posted on a number of threads.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 02:25:28 PM by ialmisry »
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 03:36:45 PM »
The phanariot JP says yes.

Can you link me to a thread that can fill me in on this?  Is the current bishop of Jerusalem a puppet for the EP?  Did a stronger man get ousted recently despite the will of the people?

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2011, 05:17:43 PM »
A letter sounds like a good idea, but I've moved around quite a bit and never once been asked for one. That's held true when I have taken communion and with parishes from an assortment of Orthodox Churches and jurisdictions (Alexandrian, American, Antiochian, Greek, and Russian Orthodox so far).
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: jurisdiction transfer
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2011, 05:27:47 PM »
almasiiH qaam!
The phanariot JP says yes.

Can you link me to a thread that can fill me in on this?  Is the current bishop of Jerusalem a puppet for the EP?  Did a stronger man get ousted recently despite the will of the people?
The particulars were given at the time that the deal was struck in the official organ of the GOARCH.  It's not a recent problem, it has been brewing for centuries, particularly the last one.  If I get time later, I might link some threads, etc. on this.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 05:28:15 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth