Author Topic: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press  (Read 2979 times)

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Online ialmisry

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DUBLIN (AP) -- When Dublin university student Shane Fitzgerald posted a poetic but phony quote on Wikipedia, he was testing how our globalized, increasingly Internet-dependent media was upholding accuracy and accountability in an age of instant news.

His report card: Wikipedia passed. Journalism flunked.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Irish-student-hoaxes-worlds-apf-15201451.html?.v=1
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Offline EofK

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 03:58:16 PM »
It's a sad, sad day when Wikipedia is actually more reliable than a newspaper. 
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Online ialmisry

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 05:23:29 PM »
It's a sad, sad day when Wikipedia is actually more reliable than a newspaper. 

Sadder still the reason: anyone can write Wikipedia, but somebody can check it.

Only the somebodies of the elite can write for the press, and nobody can check them.  Or question them.


More reason to abolish the first amendment.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline chrevbel

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 11:52:28 PM »
Sadder still the reason: anyone can write Wikipedia, but somebody can check it.
Only the somebodies of the elite can write for the press, and nobody can check them.  Or question them.

More reason to abolish the first amendment.
Methinks I missed the part about how you got from your premises to your conclusion.

Offline EofK

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 11:59:44 AM »
More reason to abolish the first amendment.

No, no, no, no, and no!  More reason to hire better editors and journalists, not just some dimwit English majors who can't find a job anywhere else.  I say this being an English major who couldn't find a job myself (dimwit or otherwise).  This is just one reason why the newspaper industry is failing.  They're trying so desperately to keep up with the speed of internet news (which is itself often unreliable) that they keep grasping at these big news scoops, regardless of the veracity of the story.  I just don't think conventional news is going to survive.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 12:34:27 PM »
It's a sad, sad day when Wikipedia is actually more reliable than a newspaper. 

Sadder still the reason: anyone can write Wikipedia, but somebody can check it.

Only the somebodies of the elite can write for the press, and nobody can check them.  Or question them.

More reason to abolish the first amendment.
What? ??? Please explain how abolishing the first amendment wouldn't make the elite even more difficult to check. As it stands, you contradict yourself terribly--or else you completely misunderstand the Bill of Rights.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Online ialmisry

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 12:39:18 PM »
It's a sad, sad day when Wikipedia is actually more reliable than a newspaper. 

Sadder still the reason: anyone can write Wikipedia, but somebody can check it.

Only the somebodies of the elite can write for the press, and nobody can check them.  Or question them.

More reason to abolish the first amendment.
What? ??? Please explain how abolishing the first amendment wouldn't make the elite even more difficult to check. As it stands, you contradict yourself terribly--or else you completely misunderstand the Bill of Rights.

The Fourth Estate always uses its alleged watch dog responsibilty as cover for its excesses under the First Amendment.  As this little exercise shows, journalism is dead, so the sanctimonious lot at the New York Times et alia can go on to the afterlife of the Bloggosphere, where there is no pretense of objectivity.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 12:40:29 PM »
It's a sad, sad day when Wikipedia is actually more reliable than a newspaper. 

Sadder still the reason: anyone can write Wikipedia, but somebody can check it.

Only the somebodies of the elite can write for the press, and nobody can check them.  Or question them.

More reason to abolish the first amendment.
What? ??? Please explain how abolishing the first amendment wouldn't make the elite even more difficult to check. As it stands, you contradict yourself terribly--or else you completely misunderstand the Bill of Rights.

The Fourth Estate always uses its alleged watch dog responsibilty as cover for its excesses under the First Amendment.  As this little exercise shows, journalism is dead, so the sanctimonious lot at the New York Times et alia can go on to the afterlife of the Bloggosphere, where there is no pretense of objectivity.
Can you write this without using jargon? Go on...you have the right to free speech.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Online ialmisry

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 12:41:43 PM »
More reason to abolish the first amendment.

No, no, no, no, and no!  More reason to hire better editors and journalists, not just some dimwit English majors who can't find a job anywhere else.  I say this being an English major who couldn't find a job myself (dimwit or otherwise).  This is just one reason why the newspaper industry is failing.  They're trying so desperately to keep up with the speed of internet news (which is itself often unreliable) that they keep grasping at these big news scoops, regardless of the veracity of the story.  I just don't think conventional news is going to survive.

there's more to the failure of the press, but a complete answer would be in the politics section, other than the fish don't know he's wet so how can he edit?

One word though: FOX news.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Online ialmisry

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 12:42:40 PM »
It's a sad, sad day when Wikipedia is actually more reliable than a newspaper. 

Sadder still the reason: anyone can write Wikipedia, but somebody can check it.

Only the somebodies of the elite can write for the press, and nobody can check them.  Or question them.

More reason to abolish the first amendment.
What? ??? Please explain how abolishing the first amendment wouldn't make the elite even more difficult to check. As it stands, you contradict yourself terribly--or else you completely misunderstand the Bill of Rights.

The Fourth Estate always uses its alleged watch dog responsibilty as cover for its excesses under the First Amendment.  As this little exercise shows, journalism is dead, so the sanctimonious lot at the New York Times et alia can go on to the afterlife of the Bloggosphere, where there is no pretense of objectivity.
Can you write this without using jargon? Go on...you have the right to free speech.

I already see that the explanation can't be on this forum.  Start a thread in politics, and if I have time I'll go into what we already know.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline EofK

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 01:01:15 PM »
More reason to abolish the first amendment.

No, no, no, no, and no!  More reason to hire better editors and journalists, not just some dimwit English majors who can't find a job anywhere else.  I say this being an English major who couldn't find a job myself (dimwit or otherwise).  This is just one reason why the newspaper industry is failing.  They're trying so desperately to keep up with the speed of internet news (which is itself often unreliable) that they keep grasping at these big news scoops, regardless of the veracity of the story.  I just don't think conventional news is going to survive.

there's more to the failure of the press, but a complete answer would be in the politics section, other than the fish don't know he's wet so how can he edit?

One word though: FOX news.

I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Online ialmisry

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 02:06:46 PM »
More reason to abolish the first amendment.

No, no, no, no, and no!  More reason to hire better editors and journalists, not just some dimwit English majors who can't find a job anywhere else.  I say this being an English major who couldn't find a job myself (dimwit or otherwise).  This is just one reason why the newspaper industry is failing.  They're trying so desperately to keep up with the speed of internet news (which is itself often unreliable) that they keep grasping at these big news scoops, regardless of the veracity of the story.  I just don't think conventional news is going to survive.

there's more to the failure of the press, but a complete answer would be in the politics section, other than the fish don't know he's wet so how can he edit?

One word though: FOX news.

I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*
LOL.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 01:11:25 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 01:57:50 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 
:laugh: LOL! You've got us pegged.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Offline EofK

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2009, 02:30:15 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 

Thanks, much obliged!   :laugh:
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Online ialmisry

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2009, 02:32:56 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 
:laugh: LOL! You've got us pegged.

Thanks, much obliged!   :laugh:

ah, the cacophony of singing to the choir.

Sorry to interrupt you MSNBC viewing.  LOL. :D
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 02:34:04 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline EofK

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2009, 03:00:43 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 
:laugh: LOL! You've got us pegged.

Thanks, much obliged!   :laugh:

ah, the cacophony of singing to the choir.

Sorry to interrupt you MSNBC viewing.  LOL. :D

Myeh, they're no good either.  I'll continue getting my news from Fark.com.  ;D
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Offline Ebor

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2009, 06:59:44 PM »
There' s much more to gaining news then a couple of networks and two or three big papers.  (and I don't get my news from any TV either).  I'll take freedom of the press, thanks.  There are plenty of alternative press sources.

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2009, 07:03:02 PM »
I'll continue getting my news from Fark.com.  ;D
There's always The Onion.
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Offline Papist

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 11:47:53 AM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 
OO OO! Me next! Me next!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 11:48:19 AM by Papist »
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2009, 01:04:04 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 
OO OO! Me next! Me next!

Abortion.  Infanticide.  Hysterics.  Holocaust.  Abortion.  Public Eduction is evil.  Abortion.  Government programmes that would lower the abortion rate are slavery.  Abortion. 

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2009, 01:07:19 PM »
Sorry to interrupt you MSNBC viewing.  LOL. :D
Right, because surely we must rely on one of the big media producers to think for us. There's no possibility we might, say, dislike them all.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2009, 01:12:44 PM »
Sorry to interrupt you MSNBC viewing.  LOL. :D
Right, because surely we must rely on one of the big media producers to think for us. There's no possibility we might, say, dislike them all.
Not to choose is to choose. :P
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2009, 01:24:25 PM »
Sorry to interrupt you MSNBC viewing.  LOL. :D
Right, because surely we must rely on one of the big media producers to think for us. There's no possibility we might, say, dislike them all.
Not to choose is to choose. :P
Again, you don't seem to take into account that news doesn't have to come from the Big Four. By choosing "none of the above," we are not necessarily choosing "none."
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Offline EofK

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2009, 01:46:32 PM »
I'll continue getting my news from Fark.com.  ;D
There's always The Onion.

Indeed!
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Offline Papist

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2009, 01:51:23 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 
OO OO! Me next! Me next!

Abortion.  Infanticide.  Hysterics.  Holocaust.  Abortion.  Public Eduction is evil.  Abortion.  Government programmes that would lower the abortion rate are slavery.  Abortion. 

 ;D  ;D  ;D
Except you have to remember I'm still on the fence about public education.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 01:52:24 PM by Papist »
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2009, 02:58:53 PM »
Sorry to interrupt you MSNBC viewing.  LOL. :D
Right, because surely we must rely on one of the big media producers to think for us. There's no possibility we might, say, dislike them all.

I choose none since I don't have cable at home.  I catch some FOX when I'm over at my parent's since they have it on a lot, but it is honestly too stressful for me after about ten seconds.  There are like ten tickers going in opposite directions and it is so emotionally charged.  If I watch TV news, PBS is what I stick with.  PBS isn't the 24 / 7 adrenaline pumping, sexy cable news as entertainment, but they have had some great coverage of the fighting in Swat that is much more in-depth than anything else I've seen on TV. 

The internet is great for getting free news.  I read the Economist cover to cover (more RSS feed to RSS feed) every week, for free.  You'd be hardpressed to find better reporting on international affairs.  I don't think that level of quality can be replaced by wikipedia like sources.  In a perfect world, they ought to compliment one another.  I use both blogs and traditional sources.


Offline Ebor

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2009, 10:15:29 PM »
Thanks to the wonders of the 'Net, I read news from a number of international sources, granted in English, but it is still useful to find out the way people in Japan or Australia or New Zealand or Singapore or England or India etc etc look at world events.  And as I mentioned before there are lots of indie sources.  It takes so thought and discernment, but I'll take a free press and the first amendment thanks

Ebor
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2009, 10:26:12 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 
OO OO! Me next! Me next!

Abortion.  Infanticide.  Hysterics.  Holocaust.  Abortion.  Public Eduction is evil.  Abortion.  Government programmes that would lower the abortion rate are slavery.  Abortion. 
Pro-gay Finnish Freemasonic women taking communion druing thier menstral period without headscarfs in churches with pews from bishops with no beards who are known sex offenders who may or may not be in communion with the MP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmxyj6iInMc
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 10:31:05 PM by Tallitot »
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Offline Keble

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Re: If you want to know the truth, learn how to interpret it
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2009, 07:09:10 AM »
Wikipedia actually dodged a nasty bullet, because once the bogus quote got into a newspaper, the "quote" in the news story could then have been cited in the article and thus be protected-- at least until the truth was revealed.

I edit in Wikipedia, and I keep a bunch of articles on my watchlist-- which is to say, when I ask, I get a list of recent changes in those articles. I've only dealt with one bogus citation, which was being used to defend an urban legend, and it was difficult to chase down because I didn't have direct access to the supposed original source. Of course, someone else fought me the whole way on it. Still, imperfect fact-checking is better than none at all.

Offline Ebor

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2009, 01:32:58 PM »
The image of a false quote being supported by it's mention in the news because it was found on Wiki strikes me as circular, like the Worm Ouroboros

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

and if it had come to pass I think this worm would have had a very chewed up tail.
 :D

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Offline Fr. George

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2009, 02:29:48 PM »
The image of a false quote being supported by it's mention in the news because it was found on Wiki strikes me as circular,

Like reading web articles that tell us about how credibility on the internet has improved drastically? :D
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Offline Dismas84

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2009, 10:49:55 PM »
It's a sad, sad day when Wikipedia is actually more reliable than a newspaper. 

/agreed
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: If you want to know the truth, read Wikipedia-and avoid the Press
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2009, 08:53:38 PM »
I can see where this is going already.  *sigh*

The liberal media elite are acting like the Nazis.  The EP sucks.  Greeks and Turks are bad.  Arabs are good. 

There I saved you a lot of reading. 

I do not think that you can neatly pigeon hole Ialmisry this way. How about:

The main stream media have fascistic tendencies. Greeks, Turks and Arabs are OK. The EP sucks big time.

BTW, I would agree with all except to soften the EP bit and to add, Rushbo is right. You betcha!