Author Topic: KOLIVA  (Read 2727 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pap

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
KOLIVA
« on: May 12, 2009, 03:35:13 AM »
Are my parents suffering in Heaven (or Hell) because my brothers and I don't cook Koliva for them?

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 03:39:10 AM »
No.  They are suffering the 20 torments. 

Offline Pap

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 03:40:20 AM »
Hahahhaa!
Too good! :D :D :D :D

Offline stashko

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,998
  • Wonderworking Sitka Icon
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 10:56:46 AM »
Are my parents suffering in Heaven (or Hell) because my brothers and I don't cook Koliva for them?

I never Cooked Koljivo For my Late Parents ,I Ordered it Thru The Serbian Orthodox Sistershood at the Church ,They made it ,I presented it in Church, The priest said a memorial For them Over it ,and that was that.
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 11:02:45 AM »
Are my parents suffering in Heaven (or Hell) because my brothers and I don't cook Koliva for them?
You keep bringing up issues that are not dogma, but "t"raditions among various ethnicities in the Orthodox Faith. Why not ask questions regarding actual doctrinal/dogmatic issues within Orthodoxy? If these sort of things are what lead you out of Orthodoxy, then I think you probably never really understood the Faith to begin with.

Offline monkvasyl

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 653
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 02:05:15 PM »
Among Ukrainians they prefer to bring bread and fresh fruit instead of koliva.  Tho, I just love kutia.  I've also seen a tradition of presenting boiled rice with honey and raisins.
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline John of the North

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,533
  • Christ is Risen!
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 03:20:05 PM »
Are my parents suffering in Heaven (or Hell) because my brothers and I don't cook Koliva for them?

If you even entertain this thought, you believe in a very scary God.
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline stashko

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,998
  • Wonderworking Sitka Icon
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2009, 03:26:56 PM »
Among Ukrainians they prefer to bring bread and fresh fruit instead of koliva.  Tho, I just love kutia.  I've also seen a tradition of presenting boiled rice with honey and raisins.


Hello Father.Kutija, Kutia means box in serbian....I alway thought it had to be wheat, because of the parable that the Lord Mentioned, unless the seed die to bring new life.... 
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline monkvasyl

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 653
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2009, 03:51:09 PM »
Among Ukrainians they prefer to bring bread and fresh fruit instead of koliva.  Tho, I just love kutia.  I've also seen a tradition of presenting boiled rice with honey and raisins.


Hello Father.Kutija, Kutia means box in serbian....I alway thought it had to be wheat, because of the parable that the Lord Mentioned, unless the seed die to bring new life.... 

My mistake...kutia is made with wheat, but a type of koliva is made with rice.
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline Orest

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,035
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2009, 04:02:49 PM »
Among Ukrainians they prefer to bring bread and fresh fruit instead of koliva.  Tho, I just love kutia.  I've also seen a tradition of presenting boiled rice with honey and raisins.

Really.  I am Ukrainian Orthodox (born & bred) and I have never ever seen a Panakhyda without Kutya or Koliva.  Ukrainians make Koliva with boiled rice, honey & raisins.  Ukrainians in Western Ukraine bring Kutya and Koliva is used in other parts of Ukraine.

This is in addition to a Kolach (round bread), surrounded by fruits.  In Volynia, the tradition is to have 3 loaves of Kolach.

The Kutya or Koliva is in a large bowl.  Either people bring little paper cups to distribute it with plastic spoons right in the church along with the cut up Kolach & fruit or it is taken home for the meal served afterwards.

Quote
Hello Father.Kutija, Kutia means box in serbian....I alway thought it had to be wheat, because of the parable that the Lord Mentioned, unless the seed die to bring new life....  

Yes, Kutya is made from boiled wheat & honey, hence the symbolism you mentioned.

Offline monkvasyl

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 653
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2009, 04:13:43 PM »
I remember one French woman who made koliva with vodka in it.  That was a real pleasant surprise.  Once when I made kutia, besides honey I added some maple syrup.
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline franthonyc

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • Assumption Greek Orthodox Church
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2009, 04:25:56 PM »
Are my parents suffering in Heaven (or Hell) because my brothers and I don't cook Koliva for them?

Pap,

We do memorials for people for two reasons.

1) To pray for them, thereby expressing our love for them in prayer, as commanded by God, Who desires us to pray for all.
2) To remind ourselves of the two realities that give us Christians hope, even in the face of death: a) That our loved ones who have died in Christ remain alive in Him, praying for us in Paradise. b) That they will rise at Christ's call at the Resurrection, their mortal bodies re-united with their souls, that the bodies we sowed in corruption at their burials will be raised in incorruption and glory, as witnessed by the use of the grain in the koliva, referring to the Lord's words in John 12:24: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."

So no, I think it is safe to say that your parents are not suffering because you are not cooking Koliva for them. They may perhaps be grieved that you do not remember them in prayer, but they do not suffer.
Τῷ μεγάλῳ χρίεται μύρῳ καὶ χειρονεῖται βασιλεὺς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, πάντων δηλαδὴ τῶν χριστιανῶν...οὐδὲν οὖν ἔνι καλὸν, υἱέ μου, ἵνα λέγῃς, ὅτι ἐκκλησίαν ἔχομεν, οὐχὶ βασιλέα, οὐκ ἔνι δυνατὸν εἰς τοὺς χριστιανοὺς, ἔκκλησίαν ἔχειν καὶ βασιλέα οὐκ ἔχειν. – EP Anthony to Basil of Moscow c. 1395

Offline stashko

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,998
  • Wonderworking Sitka Icon
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2009, 06:29:28 PM »
Among Ukrainians they prefer to bring bread and fresh fruit instead of koliva.  Tho, I just love kutia.  I've also seen a tradition of presenting boiled rice with honey and raisins.


Hello Father.Kutija, Kutia means box in serbian....I alway thought it had to be wheat, because of the parable that the Lord Mentioned, unless the seed die to bring new life.... 


My mistake...kutia is made with wheat, but a type of koliva is made with rice.


Thats very interesting i never heard of koljivo made with anything other than wheat,,, Must be a Ukrainian tradition, possable Russian as well...
But I did see people bringing a special type of bread, for a memorial service instead of the koljivo wheat dish...
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline stashko

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,998
  • Wonderworking Sitka Icon
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2009, 06:35:56 PM »
I remember one French woman who made koliva with vodka in it.  That was a real pleasant surprise.  Once when I made kutia, besides honey I added some maple syrup.


Its a wonder it didn't go up in flames if a candle it put in the middle of it...Like in the serbian church..Father  do you bless it with wine as well....
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 06:36:35 PM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline mersch

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 248
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2009, 11:30:08 PM »
What is Kolvia? How is it used for funnerals?

Offline stashko

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,998
  • Wonderworking Sitka Icon
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2009, 12:20:31 AM »
What is Kolvia? How is it used for funnerals?

For Serbians, a cooked wheat dish[zhito in serbian] with nut raisins and powdered sugar and honey its also for funeral and memorial  services and also for our slava's [patron saints ]with a special bread..prayed over by a priest incensed blessed with wine,,,as mentioned in my other post as Christ says when a seed is planted it has to die to spring  back to new life,,hopefully i didn't mess up the parable too much....
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 12:34:05 AM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Pap

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2009, 04:13:09 AM »
Christ also said He is the door. Do we also bless doors?

Offline stashko

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,998
  • Wonderworking Sitka Icon
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2009, 05:09:31 AM »
Christ also said He is the door. Do we also bless doors?


Actully the priest Blesses the Whole House and all entrances every year if one asks for it........So Yes ..
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 05:10:25 AM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,556
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2013, 09:31:58 PM »
Where does one acquire this koliva?
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2013, 09:36:10 PM »
I love koliva. It seems like every time I decide to go to a weekday vespers they have a memorial afterwards and then I get some of that delicious, sweet wheat. The sugar almonds are pretty good, too.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2013, 11:54:50 PM »
Where does one acquire this koliva?

One doesn't acquire it. One makes it, with boiled wheat (raw cleaned wheat should be readily available, I can get it from my local supermarket), nuts, raisins or sultanas, toasted breadcrumbs, toasted sesame seeds, pomegranate seeds (if available), and, if required, only enough powdered sugar to give the merest hint of sweetness. Despite what some do, koliva should NEVER be sweet or sticky, as it is a penitential food. So skip the honey and syrups, they shouldn't be there.

If anyone's interested in an authentic and easy recipe, PM me. It was taught to me by a venerable old Greek lady.
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to email me at the address in my profile.

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2013, 11:58:00 PM »
Where does one acquire this koliva?

One doesn't acquire it. One makes it, with boiled wheat (raw cleaned wheat should be readily available, I can get it from my local supermarket), nuts, raisins or sultanas, toasted breadcrumbs, toasted sesame seeds, pomegranate seeds (if available), and, if required, only enough powdered sugar to give the merest hint of sweetness. Despite what some do, koliva should NEVER be sweet or sticky, as it is a penitential food. So skip the honey and syrups, they shouldn't be there.

If anyone's interested in an authentic and easy recipe, PM me. It was taught to me by a venerable old Greek lady.

What about the sugar-coated almonds?
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: KOLIVA
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 12:08:53 AM »
Where does one acquire this koliva?

One doesn't acquire it. One makes it, with boiled wheat (raw cleaned wheat should be readily available, I can get it from my local supermarket), nuts, raisins or sultanas, toasted breadcrumbs, toasted sesame seeds, pomegranate seeds (if available), and, if required, only enough powdered sugar to give the merest hint of sweetness. Despite what some do, koliva should NEVER be sweet or sticky, as it is a penitential food. So skip the honey and syrups, they shouldn't be there.

If anyone's interested in an authentic and easy recipe, PM me. It was taught to me by a venerable old Greek lady.

What about the sugar-coated almonds?

They're put there for decoration, but are quite unnecessary, as is the half-inch layer of confectioner's icing smothering the mound, and, UGH!!, those horrible silver sugar balls.... It's koliva, an offering in commemoration of the dead, not a wedding cake!  :P

The traditional presentation is the koliva mixture in a bowl, with a layer of powdered sugar enough to cover the mixture (the mixture shouldn't contain sugar in such cases), and a cross of either blanched almonds, pomegranate seeds, or raisins on the top surface. The coat of powdered sugar simply makes it look a bit nicer, but it is just as proper to simply mix the sugar in with the rest of the ingredients, and place a cross on top as I've described. No frou-frou required.
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to email me at the address in my profile.