Author Topic: William Blake  (Read 5538 times)

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2017, 12:35:06 PM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.

It already has. Beebert made it that way.
I am honored that you seem almost as hung up with me as I am with calvinism. Anyway Calvin himself isnt the worst thing. Many of his followers are. Calvin at least realized that his decree was horrible (double predestination ). Someone like MacArthur, a true cult leader, is far, far worse. Rejecting Christ is according to Macarthur the unforgivable sin (I can accept that absolutely). But rejecting MacArthur is always equated with rejecting Jesus or the Gospel. So, according to MacArthur, questioning his teaching is basically to commit the unforgivable sin. With an honest discernment, One just has to listen 2 minutes on him to realize that he has a heart of stone. But yet, like any leader of a sect, he is Good at manipulating and brain washing people who are sensitive. One who doesnt believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that rapture theology is true are lost basically... Damned.

 This post is going well past the threshold for self-parody.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2017, 12:41:04 PM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.

It already has. Beebert made it that way.
I am honored that you seem almost as hung up with me as I am with calvinism. Anyway Calvin himself isnt the worst thing. Many of his followers are. Calvin at least realized that his decree was horrible (double predestination ). Someone like MacArthur, a true cult leader, is far, far worse. Rejecting Christ is according to Macarthur the unforgivable sin (I can accept that absolutely). But rejecting MacArthur is always equated with rejecting Jesus or the Gospel. So, according to MacArthur, questioning his teaching is basically to commit the unforgivable sin. With an honest discernment, One just has to listen 2 minutes on him to realize that he has a heart of stone. But yet, like any leader of a sect, he is Good at manipulating and brain washing people who are sensitive. One who doesnt believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that rapture theology is true are lost basically... Damned.

 This post is going well past the threshold for self-parody.
You like MacArthur 's teachings? Or do you mean that what I claim that MacArthur does is in fact what I do?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 12:43:53 PM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Iconodule

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2017, 12:46:27 PM »
Let's put it this way, Beebert: If I were to start a thread about this week's WWE Smackdown, you would find a way to make it about Calvinism.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2017, 12:50:40 PM »
And make Calvinism about yourself.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2017, 01:15:03 PM »
Yet another thing beebert is going to ruin.
Do you love me anyway?

No.

" Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

I John 3.15

Like you care.

I spent years studying Blake before Beebert was even born. But none of that matters. We all know who counts around here. It's not English majors.


 :-*
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2017, 01:37:59 PM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.

It already has. Beebert made it that way.
I am honored that you seem almost as hung up with me as I am with calvinism. Anyway Calvin himself isnt the worst thing. Many of his followers are. Calvin at least realized that his decree was horrible (double predestination ). Someone like MacArthur, a true cult leader, is far, far worse. Rejecting Christ is according to Macarthur the unforgivable sin (I can accept that absolutely). But rejecting MacArthur is always equated with rejecting Jesus or the Gospel. So, according to MacArthur, questioning his teaching is basically to commit the unforgivable sin. With an honest discernment, One just has to listen 2 minutes on him to realize that he has a heart of stone. But yet, like any leader of a sect, he is Good at manipulating and brain washing people who are sensitive. One who doesnt believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that rapture theology is true are lost basically... Damned.

 This post is going well past the threshold for self-parody.
You like MacArthur 's teachings? Or do you mean that what I claim that MacArthur does is in fact what I do?

John MacArthur is just a more-successful example of what the big men in fundamentalism all tend to be like. I imagine you know this (or maybe you don't; I tend to forget you're from Sweden since you write English so fluently). If you disapprove of him, and so much else, so much then what are you doing to support the Orthodox alternative? We here aren't MacArthurites, we're folks who are interested in Orthodoxy. Shouldn't your posts be encouraging us if you see such a failure in Christianity elsewhere?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2017, 05:01:28 PM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.

It already has. Beebert made it that way.
I am honored that you seem almost as hung up with me as I am with calvinism. Anyway Calvin himself isnt the worst thing. Many of his followers are. Calvin at least realized that his decree was horrible (double predestination ). Someone like MacArthur, a true cult leader, is far, far worse. Rejecting Christ is according to Macarthur the unforgivable sin (I can accept that absolutely). But rejecting MacArthur is always equated with rejecting Jesus or the Gospel. So, according to MacArthur, questioning his teaching is basically to commit the unforgivable sin. With an honest discernment, One just has to listen 2 minutes on him to realize that he has a heart of stone. But yet, like any leader of a sect, he is Good at manipulating and brain washing people who are sensitive. One who doesnt believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that rapture theology is true are lost basically... Damned.

 This post is going well past the threshold for self-parody.
You like MacArthur 's teachings? Or do you mean that what I claim that MacArthur does is in fact what I do?

John MacArthur is just a more-successful example of what the big men in fundamentalism all tend to be like. I imagine you know this (or maybe you don't; I tend to forget you're from Sweden since you write English so fluently). If you disapprove of him, and so much else, so much then what are you doing to support the Orthodox alternative? We here aren't MacArthurites, we're folks who are interested in Orthodoxy. Shouldn't your posts be encouraging us if you see such a failure in Christianity elsewhere?
You are, of course, right. I dont know why I cant stop ranting about Calvinism and now MacArthur. I guess it is because I was utterly destroyed, brain-washed, driven to despair, to the point where I am now incapable of recognizing myself and loving God and trusting his goodness. The God preached by Macarthur is an unloving dictator and Tyrant and it is incredibly Hard to erase that image from my mind. Sorry Though. I see orthodoxy is much more beautiful. But it is like the guilt trips coming from the cult of Macarthur Condemns me for even thinking orthodoxy Might be true. And the authority with which he speaks and how he confidently threatens People with damnation who doesnt submit to his doctrine .. has made me very suspicious of any kind of authority because of it. That is probably one of the reasons to why I run to the writings of People like Nietzsche, Kierkegaatd and William Blake. Anyway I apologize. But I Will not regret saying that Macarthur's teaching and the way he preaches is evil. I know it has destroyed the lives of quite many
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 05:03:59 PM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2017, 05:05:23 PM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.

It already has. Beebert made it that way.
I am honored that you seem almost as hung up with me as I am with calvinism. Anyway Calvin himself isnt the worst thing. Many of his followers are. Calvin at least realized that his decree was horrible (double predestination ). Someone like MacArthur, a true cult leader, is far, far worse. Rejecting Christ is according to Macarthur the unforgivable sin (I can accept that absolutely). But rejecting MacArthur is always equated with rejecting Jesus or the Gospel. So, according to MacArthur, questioning his teaching is basically to commit the unforgivable sin. With an honest discernment, One just has to listen 2 minutes on him to realize that he has a heart of stone. But yet, like any leader of a sect, he is Good at manipulating and brain washing people who are sensitive. One who doesnt believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that rapture theology is true are lost basically... Damned.

 This post is going well past the threshold for self-parody.
You like MacArthur 's teachings? Or do you mean that what I claim that MacArthur does is in fact what I do?

John MacArthur is just a more-successful example of what the big men in fundamentalism all tend to be like. I imagine you know this (or maybe you don't; I tend to forget you're from Sweden since you write English so fluently). If you disapprove of him, and so much else, so much then what are you doing to support the Orthodox alternative? We here aren't MacArthurites, we're folks who are interested in Orthodoxy. Shouldn't your posts be encouraging us if you see such a failure in Christianity elsewhere?
You are, of course, right. I dont know why I cant stop ranting about Calvinism and now MacArthur. I guess it is because I was utterly destroyed, brain-washed, driven to despair, to the point where I am incapable of recognizing myself and loving God and trusting his goodness. The God preached by Macarthur is an unloving dictator and Tyrant and it is incredibly Hard to erase that image from my mind. Sorry Though. I see orthodoxy is much more beautiful. But it is like the guilt trips coming from the cult of Macarthur Condemns me for even thinking orthodoxy Might be true. And the authority with which he speaks and how he confidently threatens People with damnation who doesnt submit to his doctrine .. has made me very suspicious of any kind of authority because of it. That is probably one of the reasons to why I run to the writings of People like Nietzsche and William Blake. Anyway I apologize. But I Will not regret saying that Macarthur's teaching and the way he preaches is evil. I know it has destroyed the lives of quite many

And I know quite a few very happy families and young people (students at his college in that case) caught in his horrid cult of personality. The human soul is a wonderful thing much more than the sum of its religious loyalties. Does the man speak poison? Of course. So do teachers and leaders of, say, a secular kind you'd never think to scrutinize. Our daily business is our relationship to loved ones and God and pity for the less-fortunate -- and speaking up in praise of God and the beautiful truth. The liars we have with us always, and are drawn to become them ourselves.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2017, 05:37:40 PM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.

It already has. Beebert made it that way.
I am honored that you seem almost as hung up with me as I am with calvinism. Anyway Calvin himself isnt the worst thing. Many of his followers are. Calvin at least realized that his decree was horrible (double predestination ). Someone like MacArthur, a true cult leader, is far, far worse. Rejecting Christ is according to Macarthur the unforgivable sin (I can accept that absolutely). But rejecting MacArthur is always equated with rejecting Jesus or the Gospel. So, according to MacArthur, questioning his teaching is basically to commit the unforgivable sin. With an honest discernment, One just has to listen 2 minutes on him to realize that he has a heart of stone. But yet, like any leader of a sect, he is Good at manipulating and brain washing people who are sensitive. One who doesnt believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that rapture theology is true are lost basically... Damned.

 This post is going well past the threshold for self-parody.
You like MacArthur 's teachings? Or do you mean that what I claim that MacArthur does is in fact what I do?

John MacArthur is just a more-successful example of what the big men in fundamentalism all tend to be like. I imagine you know this (or maybe you don't; I tend to forget you're from Sweden since you write English so fluently). If you disapprove of him, and so much else, so much then what are you doing to support the Orthodox alternative? We here aren't MacArthurites, we're folks who are interested in Orthodoxy. Shouldn't your posts be encouraging us if you see such a failure in Christianity elsewhere?
You are, of course, right. I dont know why I cant stop ranting about Calvinism and now MacArthur. I guess it is because I was utterly destroyed, brain-washed, driven to despair, to the point where I am incapable of recognizing myself and loving God and trusting his goodness. The God preached by Macarthur is an unloving dictator and Tyrant and it is incredibly Hard to erase that image from my mind. Sorry Though. I see orthodoxy is much more beautiful. But it is like the guilt trips coming from the cult of Macarthur Condemns me for even thinking orthodoxy Might be true. And the authority with which he speaks and how he confidently threatens People with damnation who doesnt submit to his doctrine .. has made me very suspicious of any kind of authority because of it. That is probably one of the reasons to why I run to the writings of People like Nietzsche and William Blake. Anyway I apologize. But I Will not regret saying that Macarthur's teaching and the way he preaches is evil. I know it has destroyed the lives of quite many

And I know quite a few very happy families and young people (students at his college in that case) caught in his horrid cult of personality. The human soul is a wonderful thing much more than the sum of its religious loyalties. Does the man speak poison? Of course. So do teachers and leaders of, say, a secular kind you'd never think to scrutinize. Our daily business is our relationship to loved ones and God and pity for the less-fortunate -- and speaking up in praise of God and the beautiful truth. The liars we have with us always, and are drawn to become them ourselves.
Once again you Said some Good things. Well... People like and are happy with all kinds of oppresive systems and other things. Jehovas witnesses, Nazis, stalinists.. Etc.

“Now listen to this. It doesn’t matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Fetus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton, it doesn’t matter who it is, he says be subject, you teach them to be subject.” — John MacArthur.

What Macarthur here means I believe is: "Be subject to me"
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2017, 10:09:52 PM »
He means that all the time, but not specifically here. Here he's just being a stickler for biblical  doctrine. It's what fundamentalists teach, whenever there's nothing else, of their own invention, they could happen to be teaching.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2017, 06:49:37 AM »
He means that all the time, but not specifically here. Here he's just being a stickler for biblical  doctrine. It's what fundamentalists teach, whenever there's nothing else, of their own invention, they could happen to be teaching.
Well. The God MacArthur preaches at least is not a God of love. It is nothing but an invisible, heavenly political despot. There is no spirit there whatsoever. In fact, Macarthur once Said that all apophatic, mystical experiences, even experiences of God's presence itself, is false always and is demonic and satanic illusion. What blasphemy! For him, there is nothing but the bible. The letter of the bible. He doesnt seem to understand the meaning of Paul when he says that the letter kills But the spirit gives life. The bible IS God according to him. And it must be the bible as understood by him.
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2017, 01:40:29 PM »
He means that all the time, but not specifically here. Here he's just being a stickler for biblical  doctrine. It's what fundamentalists teach, whenever there's nothing else, of their own invention, they could happen to be teaching.
Well. The God MacArthur preaches at least is not a God of love. It is nothing but an invisible, heavenly political despot. There is no spirit there whatsoever. In fact, Macarthur once Said that all apophatic, mystical experiences, even experiences of God's presence itself, is false always and is demonic and satanic illusion. What blasphemy! For him, there is nothing but the bible. The letter of the bible. He doesnt seem to understand the meaning of Paul when he says that the letter kills But the spirit gives life. The bible IS God according to him. And it must be the bible as understood by him.

Very common. Ironically, Fundamentalism's founders, in the early 1900s, saw themselves as clever modern men above superstition and the common people and able to prove their doctriens as objective, rational truth. Just the hubris of the period, on most sides of the politico-religious debates. At any rate, yes, Fundamentalists deny miracles, visions, or anything like that, and, yes of course they assign things (and people) they disapprove of to the Devil.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2017, 02:37:59 PM »
He means that all the time, but not specifically here. Here he's just being a stickler for biblical  doctrine. It's what fundamentalists teach, whenever there's nothing else, of their own invention, they could happen to be teaching.
Well. The God MacArthur preaches at least is not a God of love. It is nothing but an invisible, heavenly political despot. There is no spirit there whatsoever. In fact, Macarthur once Said that all apophatic, mystical experiences, even experiences of God's presence itself, is false always and is demonic and satanic illusion. What blasphemy! For him, there is nothing but the bible. The letter of the bible. He doesnt seem to understand the meaning of Paul when he says that the letter kills But the spirit gives life. The bible IS God according to him. And it must be the bible as understood by him.

Very common. Ironically, Fundamentalism's founders, in the early 1900s, saw themselves as clever modern men above superstition and the common people and able to prove their doctriens as objective, rational truth. Just the hubris of the period, on most sides of the politico-religious debates. At any rate, yes, Fundamentalists deny miracles, visions, or anything like that, and, yes of course they assign things (and people) they disapprove of to the Devil.
Yes Well... His Faith is entirely intellectual it seems. He Said there is no internal truth, Only external (The bible ). So basically the kingdom of God is NOT within you. God=The bible. The truth is a Book, he said. I say God is the truth. The bible is a true and reliable testimony. Not God himself. BTW for Kierkegaard, a criterium of true Faith is that one has enough faith to believe that the possibility of faith extends to all individuals equally
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 02:41:11 PM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2017, 02:56:21 PM »
He means that all the time, but not specifically here. Here he's just being a stickler for biblical  doctrine. It's what fundamentalists teach, whenever there's nothing else, of their own invention, they could happen to be teaching.
Well. The God MacArthur preaches at least is not a God of love. It is nothing but an invisible, heavenly political despot. There is no spirit there whatsoever. In fact, Macarthur once Said that all apophatic, mystical experiences, even experiences of God's presence itself, is false always and is demonic and satanic illusion. What blasphemy! For him, there is nothing but the bible. The letter of the bible. He doesnt seem to understand the meaning of Paul when he says that the letter kills But the spirit gives life. The bible IS God according to him. And it must be the bible as understood by him.

Very common. Ironically, Fundamentalism's founders, in the early 1900s, saw themselves as clever modern men above superstition and the common people and able to prove their doctriens as objective, rational truth. Just the hubris of the period, on most sides of the politico-religious debates. At any rate, yes, Fundamentalists deny miracles, visions, or anything like that, and, yes of course they assign things (and people) they disapprove of to the Devil.
Yes Well... His Faith is entirely intellectual it seems. He Said there is no internal truth, Only external (The bible ). So basically the kingdom of God is NOT within you. God=The bible. The truth is a Book, he said.

Yeah well Christian Fundamentalism is an American cult. I've been thru all the emotions you are having, I think, in my own youth. But you're okay now, you're associating with a legitimate branch of Christianity with millions of members. Keep going to Divine Liturgy and the oppression of these modern cults, monergistic or not, will seem like a passing dream. Keep looking up.

Quote
BTW for Kierkegaard, a criterium of true Faith is that one has enough faith to believe that the possibility of faith extends to all individuals equally

Maybe you just have to flesh this out or offer a quote, but I don't recognize this as a particularly Kierkegaardean theogumen.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy