Author Topic: William Blake  (Read 5058 times)

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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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William Blake
« on: April 30, 2009, 01:45:02 AM »
I am looking for some Orthodox opinions regarding the poet William Blake. I have not read any of his work, but I have frequently seen him hailed and promoted by other writers that I do admire. Thomas Merton speaks highly of him in his wonderful book "The Seven Story Mountain." But Merton also cautions readers who are not secure in their Christian faith not to take in too much of William Blake without serious discernment.

From what I gather, William Blake is very unorthodox, but perhaps deeply Christian nonetheless. Can anyone out there offer some opinions on his work?

Selam
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Offline Michał

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2009, 01:57:16 AM »

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 02:21:04 AM »
This might be helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Blake#Religious_views.

Thanks. Now I know why Thomas Merton cautioned spiritual novices from taking in too much of Blake's work. I consider myself a spiritual novice, and at first glance it appears that Blake is too seductive for me to trust. Just enough profound truth to get me hooked, and then derail me from Orthodoxy. Very dangerous I think. And yet he sure seems fascinating, and perhaps was a Christian at heart. But I am fearful of his work, because I know that satan likes to use patial truth to lead men into the greatest of lies.

Selam 
"Whether it’s the guillotine, the hangman’s noose, or reciprocal endeavors of militaristic horror, radical evil will never be recompensed with radical punishment. The only answer, the only remedy, and the only truly effective response to radical evil is radical love."
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Offline si2008

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 01:33:40 PM »
I picked up an illustrated collection of his works, just browsing at the library.  I think in some ways he is a refreshing voice for our times because he extols Beauty, Truth, Courage, etc...the big ideas.  But he was also just kind of a weirdo.  From what I can remember his ideas are pantheistic at heart, but on the surface he could almost pass for a Christian.  As an Orthodox Christian, you should read him and Merton both with a grain of salt and serious discernment.  Just like when you watch a movie or read the paper, you have to know that whatever good there is is likely to be cut with a great deal of unChristian ideas. 

Offline scamandrius

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 02:35:04 PM »
Hey, a guy whose poetry and art inspired one of the best hard rock albums of all time (I speak, of course, of Bruce Dickinson's The Chemical Wedding) can't be all that bad!

It's mystical to be sure.  Is it Christian mysticism?  It certainly has hints of it.  One just has to read "Jerusalem" to get that idea.

Why not just read it for its own sake instead of whether or not it fits into a certain pre-determined category?
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 02:35:59 PM »
The Tiger (by William Blake)
  
TIGER, tiger, burning bright   
In the forests of the night,   
What immortal hand or eye   
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?   
 
In what distant deeps or skies            5
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?   
On what wings dare he aspire?   
What the hand dare seize the fire?   
 
And what shoulder and what art   
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?     10
And when thy heart began to beat,   
What dread hand and what dread feet?   
 
What the hammer? what the chain?   
In what furnace was thy brain?   
What the anvil? What dread grasp     15
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?   
 
When the stars threw down their spears,   
And water'd heaven with their tears,   
Did He smile His work to see?   
Did He who made the lamb make thee?     20
 
Tiger, tiger, burning bright   
In the forests of the night,   
What immortal hand or eye   
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline si2008

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 11:39:55 AM »
I like William Blake and all those mystical English poets; I think they were all struggling to find the Truth. I didn't mean to make it sound like Blake was devoid of artistic merit; I just meant that whatever you read, you should do it with a sense of discernment.  That's actually a pleasure to do as a Christian; whenever I go to the movies or the bookstore, finding hints of Christ's influence on the whole universe is a great joy!  Sometimes you just find Orthodoxy in surprising places.  And I guess some is better than none.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 11:40:21 AM by si2008 »

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2009, 06:23:20 PM »
I like William Blake and all those mystical English poets; I think they were all struggling to find the Truth. I didn't mean to make it sound like Blake was devoid of artistic merit; I just meant that whatever you read, you should do it with a sense of discernment.  That's actually a pleasure to do as a Christian; whenever I go to the movies or the bookstore, finding hints of Christ's influence on the whole universe is a great joy!  Sometimes you just find Orthodoxy in surprising places.  And I guess some is better than none.

Great statement!

Selam
"Whether it’s the guillotine, the hangman’s noose, or reciprocal endeavors of militaristic horror, radical evil will never be recompensed with radical punishment. The only answer, the only remedy, and the only truly effective response to radical evil is radical love."
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Offline Ebor

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2009, 08:25:03 PM »
Hey, a guy whose poetry and art inspired one of the best hard rock albums of all time

Don't forget Emerson, Lake and Palmer's "Jerusalem"!  Art Rock turned up to 11!


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Offline GiC

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2009, 11:45:54 PM »
Blake's a deist, not a Christian, trying to fit him into your personal framework is absurd. Enjoy his work for itself, not for how it fits your personal worldview.

I must say, some of his Poems really resonate with me; from the 'Songs of Innocence':

The Little Vagabond
 
Dear Mother, dear Mother, the Church is cold,
But the Ale-house is healthy & pleasant & warm;
Besides I can tell where I am use'd well,
Such usage in heaven will never do well.
 
But if at the Church they would give us some Ale.
And a pleasant fire, our souls to regale;
We'd sing and we'd pray, all the live-long day;
Nor ever once wish from the Church to stray,

Then the Parson might preach & drink & sing.
And we'd be as happy as birds in the spring:
And modest dame Lurch, who is always at Church,
Would not have bandy children nor fasting nor birch.
 
And God like a father rejoicing to see,
His children as pleasant and happy as he:
Would have no more quarrel with the Devil or the Barrel
But kiss him & give him both drink and apparel.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2009, 12:12:09 AM »
Blake may have been influenced by the Muggletonians, a little-known English Dissenter group that believed in geocentrism (and thus rejected Newtonian heliocentrism) and other interesting ideas.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 12:15:16 AM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017, 02:46:57 PM »
Blake's a deist, not a Christian

Leaving aside the question of whether Blake can be really called Christian, labeling him a deist is absurd. While he was broadly sympathetic to the revolutionary movements (both American and French) at his time, his fiery contempt for deism, and enlightenment philosophy in general, shines throughout his work. His theology, such as it is, is pretty unrecognizable to any mainstream thinking, Christian, or otherwise. Attempts to peg him as a gnostic or part of some broad western esoteric tradition likewise fall flat in the face of his mockery of Plato and the other "silly Greeks", while holding the Bible to be "the supreme code of art." Unlike other poets of the romantic era, he had little interest in pagan nostalgia, seeing paganism as trapped in materialism and consumed with the urge for domination and war. He identifies God and all that is sacred with what he calls "Imagination," and holds the arts to be the real revelation. "A poet, a painter, a musician, an architect: the man or woman who is not one of these is not a Christian."

I find his work usually beautiful and inspiring, if at times cumbersome with his idiosyncrasies, his intensely individual vision. His anti-materialism, his spiritual appreciation of the world, his heartfelt love for fellow man, all radiate in his work and stir a Christian heart. On the other hand his self-imposed isolation, sometimes approaching solipsism, leads him astray, sometimes very far. All the same I think he is far nearer Christian spirituality than other artists who might be more superficially orthodox.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 03:12:12 PM »
Mr. Blake was a proto-Satanist. And, yes, I read his works when I was young. This argument over what kind of Christian he was is naive or disingenuous. Obviously he created so copiously and over such a long period that many things can be found in him. He's also an important artist culturally and so is bound to be quotable. Lastly, his views took decades to refine. So I am not suggesting he shouldn't be read or referred to. However, it's critical to understand that he was always an egomaniac and that ultimately he concluded God must be opposed and Satan followed, if one plans to consume him in any depth or quantity.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 03:17:46 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2017, 03:13:33 PM »
Mr. Blake was a proto-Satanist. And, yes, I read his works when I was young. This argument over what kind of Christian he was is naive or disgingeuous.

Your face is naïve or disingenuous.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 03:30:46 PM »
Funny Blake was brought up here today. I thought a LOT about him today(first time for a Long time) and about his place as a Christian... He is definately a great poet.

"A poet, a painter, a musician, an architect: the man or woman who is not one of these is not a Christian."

Loved that statement and agree to a large extent with it. Though I would add peasant to the list;)
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Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2017, 03:33:21 PM »
Mr. Blake was a proto-Satanist. And, yes, I read his works when I was young. This argument over what kind of Christian he was is naive or disingenuous. Obviously he created so copiously and over such a long period that many things can be found in him. He's also an important artist culturally and so is bound to be quotable. Lastly, his views took decades to refine. So I am not suggesting he shouldn't be read or referred to. However, it's critical to understand that he was always an egomaniac and that ultimately he concluded God must be opposed and Satan followed, if one plans to consume him in any depth or quantity.
I do not agree. IF one consumes him with depth and quality, one Will find he is good for what is knows as orthodox christianity
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2017, 03:44:28 PM »
However, it's critical to understand that he was always an egomaniac and that ultimately he concluded God must be opposed and Satan followed, if one plans to consume him in any depth or quantity.

Having consumed him in quite a lot of depth and quantity, I can say that you are mischaracterizing him. The "God" he opposed was the deistic god or the comfortable rationalistic, moralistic god of official British Christianity- a god likewise opposed in different ways by John Wesley and later the Oxford movement and the Pre-Raphaelites. His instincts were right in this regard. True, the system he erected, insofar as it can be called a system, has plenty wrong with it, as any heterodox system must, but to write him off as a Satanist is lazy.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2017, 03:47:05 PM »
However, it's critical to understand that he was always an egomaniac and that ultimately he concluded God must be opposed and Satan followed, if one plans to consume him in any depth or quantity.

Having consumed him in quite a lot of depth and quantity, I can say that you are mischaracterizing him. The "God" he opposed was the deistic god or the comfortable rationalistic, moralistic god of official British Christianity- a god likewise opposed in different ways by John Wesley and later the Oxford movement and the Pre-Raphaelites. His instincts were right in this regard. True, the system he erected, insofar as it can be called a system, has plenty wrong with it, as any heterodox system must, but to write him off as a Satanist is lazy.
+1

Many people have a tendency to Write of great men who have the courage to think for themselves, protest against oppression and slavery of thought, and who embrace art and are capable of creating as satanists.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2017, 03:54:07 PM »
However, it's critical to understand that he was always an egomaniac and that ultimately he concluded God must be opposed and Satan followed, if one plans to consume him in any depth or quantity.

Having consumed him in quite a lot of depth and quantity, I can say that you are mischaracterizing him. The "God" he opposed was the deistic god or the comfortable rationalistic, moralistic god of official British Christianity- a god likewise opposed in different ways by John Wesley and later the Oxford movement and the Pre-Raphaelites. His instincts were right in this regard. True, the system he erected, insofar as it can be called a system, has plenty wrong with it, as any heterodox system must, but to write him off as a Satanist is lazy.

I'm not "writing him off," and studying and owning his complete works is not "lazy." Yes, his narcissistic world-building had its vagaries throughout his life, but ultimately he quite literally damns God and worships Satan and calls on all superior aesthetes to do the same. The secondary literature is bound to be flattering, because of his "genius" and because it's the job of such academics to paint the world with a "sophisticated" brush that has no honest care for God or men. I appreciate that you reflect the common view, that the view I hold up is unsettling for someone who finds comfort in the common secular cynicism, and that you're willing to come to the defense of common comfort. But if you're attempting to squelch a different view you're going too far.
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2017, 03:56:50 PM »
In light of your marked tendency to misread the simplest OC.net posts, forgive me my lack of faith in your ability to seriously parse William Blake.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2017, 04:03:31 PM »
Many people have a tendency to Write of great men who have the courage to think for themselves, protest against oppression and slavery of thought, and who embrace art and are capable of creating as satanists.

I don't know that this is true, but it's not the case here. My description of him as a proto-Satanist is meant to be entirely literal.

That said, let's take a look at how you used him recently:

Christ is above dogma, logic and even morality.

One of The greatest reward for man is to be able to say:

"I must Create a System, or be enslav'd by another Man's. I will not Reason & Compare; my business is to Create."

So here what we have is Mr. Blake reinventing Christ, in your mind, as not a teacher, not a rational being, and not moral. Further, the purpose of man is narcissism. This is your mind, granted, and Mr. Blake's words themselves are brief and nonsensical, designed merely to evoke an aesthetic of grandiose defiance. However, the fact that you (here and in the other thread) root for him as a great benefactor of humanity -- yet using him like this against Christ and man -- does cast doubt on your ability to make a lucid assessment.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 04:05:27 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2017, 04:03:58 PM »
In light of your marked tendency to misread the simplest OC.net posts, forgive me my lack of faith in your ability to seriously parse William Blake.

That's all your fancy, friend. Relax and open yourself to other opinions. It doesn't hurt.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2017, 04:06:52 PM »
In light of your marked tendency to misread the simplest OC.net posts, forgive me my lack of faith in your ability to seriously parse William Blake.

That's all your fancy, friend. Relax and open yourself to other opinions. It doesn't hurt.

But naturally, anyone who doesn't share your opinion on William Blake (or beards) can only be "someone who finds comfort in the common secular cynicism."
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Agabus

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2017, 10:18:25 PM »
I get that this thread is a few years old, but Gebre might like Martha Redbone's project turning William Blake's poems into American roots music.
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Re: William Blake
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2017, 10:25:36 PM »
I absolutely loved William Blake when I considered myself a Gnostic. "One of us", like Hesse or Jung. Now I see how much of intellectual masturbation modern Gnosticism is.
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Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2017, 01:11:16 AM »
In light of your marked tendency to misread the simplest OC.net posts, forgive me my lack of faith in your ability to seriously parse William Blake.

That's all your fancy, friend. Relax and open yourself to other opinions. It doesn't hurt.
Hm. It seems to me you need to do the same
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 01:11:46 AM by beebert »
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Offline beebert

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2017, 01:14:05 AM »
Many people have a tendency to Write of great men who have the courage to think for themselves, protest against oppression and slavery of thought, and who embrace art and are capable of creating as satanists.

I don't know that this is true, but it's not the case here. My description of him as a proto-Satanist is meant to be entirely literal.

That said, let's take a look at how you used him recently:

Christ is above dogma, logic and even morality.

One of The greatest reward for man is to be able to say:

"I must Create a System, or be enslav'd by another Man's. I will not Reason & Compare; my business is to Create."

So here what we have is Mr. Blake reinventing Christ, in your mind, as not a teacher, not a rational being, and not moral. Further, the purpose of man is narcissism. This is your mind, granted, and Mr. Blake's words themselves are brief and nonsensical, designed merely to evoke an aesthetic of grandiose defiance. However, the fact that you (here and in the other thread) root for him as a great benefactor of humanity -- yet using him like this against Christ and man -- does cast doubt on your ability to make a lucid assessment.
It seems your problem is your complete incapability of understanding what Blake said. I mean the depth of it. Jealosy perhaps? He means Jesus is beyond rationality and morality since Jesus is not a fallen being. Our concept of the distinction between Good and evil came after the fall. In paradise man was beyond Good and evil.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 01:16:55 AM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2017, 01:29:41 AM »
I always enjoyed his art.
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Re: William Blake
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2017, 04:42:55 AM »
What Blake did, and rightly so, was to combat predestinarian christianity like calvinism. And to expose hypocrites. Blake expended an enormous amount of his creative energy combating Double Predestination. He heaped scorn upon scorn on the calvinistic God who curses his children. His break with Swedenborg followed his discovery that Swedenborg was a "Spiritual Predestinarian, more abominable than Calvin's". He later lamented over him and called him the "Samson, shorn by the Churches". In 'Milton' Blake ironically inverted the calvinistic categories of 'elect' and 'reprobate'. With incredible elegance he used Jesus' words on Calvin like a two edged sword. He simply pronounced on behalf of Christ the obvious truth, as if to say, "Calvin, your doctrine is of the world, and your first shall be last in my kingdom." Blake agreed with John Wesley in this, who Said that Double predestination is such a horrible decree that it could be issued only by a god "Worse than the devil: more false, more cruel, more unjust"
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 04:51:59 AM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2017, 08:53:54 AM »
What Blake did, and rightly so, was to combat predestinarian christianity like calvinism. And to expose hypocrites. Blake expended an enormous amount of his creative energy combating Double Predestination. He heaped scorn upon scorn on the calvinistic God who curses his children. His break with Swedenborg followed his discovery that Swedenborg was a "Spiritual Predestinarian, more abominable than Calvin's". He later lamented over him and called him the "Samson, shorn by the Churches". In 'Milton' Blake ironically inverted the calvinistic categories of 'elect' and 'reprobate'. With incredible elegance he used Jesus' words on Calvin like a two edged sword. He simply pronounced on behalf of Christ the obvious truth, as if to say, "Calvin, your doctrine is of the world, and your first shall be last in my kingdom." Blake agreed with John Wesley in this, who Said that Double predestination is such a horrible decree that it could be issued only by a god "Worse than the devil: more false, more cruel, more unjust"

Thanks for this assessment.

Selam
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Re: William Blake
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2017, 10:24:01 AM »
What Blake did, and rightly so, was to combat predestinarian christianity like calvinism. And to expose hypocrites. Blake expended an enormous amount of his creative energy combating Double Predestination. He heaped scorn upon scorn on the calvinistic God who curses his children. His break with Swedenborg followed his discovery that Swedenborg was a "Spiritual Predestinarian, more abominable than Calvin's". He later lamented over him and called him the "Samson, shorn by the Churches". In 'Milton' Blake ironically inverted the calvinistic categories of 'elect' and 'reprobate'. With incredible elegance he used Jesus' words on Calvin like a two edged sword. He simply pronounced on behalf of Christ the obvious truth, as if to say, "Calvin, your doctrine is of the world, and your first shall be last in my kingdom." Blake agreed with John Wesley in this, who Said that Double predestination is such a horrible decree that it could be issued only by a god "Worse than the devil: more false, more cruel, more unjust"

Thanks for this assessment.

Selam
No problem. Blake's Point of view was that basically that the "wicked" create hell for themselves, but the "good" and "elect" create it for others...
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 10:24:36 AM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2017, 01:42:56 PM »
"Every person is worthy of an infinite wealth of love - the beauty of his soul knows no limit.”

Doesnt sound satanic to me at least
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2017, 02:05:14 PM »
Yet another thing beebert is going to ruin.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2017, 02:07:57 PM »
Yet another thing beebert is going to ruin.
Do you love me anyway?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2017, 02:39:15 PM »
No problem. Blake's Point of view was that basically that the "wicked" create hell for themselves, but the "good" and "elect" create it for others...
This sounds like a hybrid of sarcasm and Gnosticism.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 02:39:24 PM by RaphaCam »
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Re: William Blake
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2017, 02:45:10 PM »
No problem. Blake's Point of view was that basically that the "wicked" create hell for themselves, but the "good" and "elect" create it for others...
This sounds like a hybrid of sarcasm and Gnosticism.
Maybe... Well I guess it depends on what one means by elect. If terrorizing People with calvinism, I understand what he means
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2017, 06:45:45 PM »
Yet another thing beebert is going to ruin.
Do you love me anyway?

No.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2017, 07:17:55 PM »
Yet another thing beebert is going to ruin.
Do you love me anyway?

No.

" Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

I John 3.15
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2017, 07:32:51 PM »
Yet another thing beebert is going to ruin.
Do you love me anyway?

No.

" Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

I John 3.15

Like you care.

I spent years studying Blake before Beebert was even born. But none of that matters. We all know who counts around here. It's not English majors.



My only weakness is, well, never mind

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2017, 08:13:10 PM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2017, 08:20:27 PM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.

It already has. Beebert made it that way.

My only weakness is, well, never mind

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2017, 09:45:02 PM »
We all know who counts around here. It's not English majors.

you may not love beebert, but I do love you!
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Re: William Blake
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2017, 12:07:36 AM »
Yet another thing beebert is going to ruin.
Do you love me anyway?

No.

" Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

I John 3.15

Like you care.

I spent years studying Blake before Beebert was even born. But none of that matters. We all know who counts around here. It's not English majors.

English majors do not count anywhere.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2017, 06:03:49 AM »
Except for Blake.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

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Re: William Blake
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2017, 09:23:15 AM »
So I'm sure you can add to the debate before this becomes another topic on Calvinism, biro.

It already has. Beebert made it that way.
I am honored that you seem almost as hung up with me as I am with calvinism. Anyway Calvin himself isnt the worst thing. Many of his followers are. Calvin at least realized that his decree was horrible (double predestination ). Someone like MacArthur, a true cult leader, is far, far worse. Rejecting Christ is according to Macarthur the unforgivable sin (I can accept that absolutely). But rejecting MacArthur is always equated with rejecting Jesus or the Gospel. So, according to MacArthur, questioning his teaching is basically to commit the unforgivable sin. With an honest discernment, One just has to listen 2 minutes on him to realize that he has a heart of stone. But yet, like any leader of a sect, he is Good at manipulating and brain washing people who are sensitive. One who doesnt believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that rapture theology is true are lost basically... Damned.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 09:31:56 AM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)