Author Topic: I have been taking communion in your churches  (Read 27276 times)

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Offline Ben

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2004, 12:06:46 PM »
Wow Joe you are quite popular.....you must be loving this....
"I prefer to be accused unjustly, for then I have nothing to reproach myself with, and joyfully offer this to the good Lord. Then I humble myself at the thought that I am indeed capable of doing the thing of which I have been accused. " - Saint

Offline JoeZollars

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2004, 12:09:08 PM »
No I am not loving this.  Personally I don't like being popular (I actually prefer it when the vast majority of people do not even know I exist).  It makes it harder for the IRS to find me.  ;)

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Offline Ben

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2004, 12:14:23 PM »
lol....ok....I see this sedevacantist/R**C cult like mentality is still very much a part of your life... ;) :D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2004, 12:15:20 PM by Ben »
"I prefer to be accused unjustly, for then I have nothing to reproach myself with, and joyfully offer this to the good Lord. Then I humble myself at the thought that I am indeed capable of doing the thing of which I have been accused. " - Saint

Offline JoeZollars

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2004, 12:23:43 PM »
nah, its just that I have always been a very quiet private person.  The sort of person who only speaks when spoken too and given a direct order to answer.

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Offline Ben

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2004, 12:26:40 PM »
Sure......whatever you say ;)

Ps. get a chance to listen to some of the stuff from the link I gave you last night? The Gloria is my favorite  ;D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2004, 12:28:02 PM by Ben »
"I prefer to be accused unjustly, for then I have nothing to reproach myself with, and joyfully offer this to the good Lord. Then I humble myself at the thought that I am indeed capable of doing the thing of which I have been accused. " - Saint

Offline Jack

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #95 on: April 26, 2004, 12:26:50 PM »
Well of course, cause the true ecumenist, doesn't care, all is good with him, we're all one..little dogmatic differences like Papal Infallibilty don't matter, or which litrugy we use, as long as we all hold hands and love Jesus << :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X :'( :-X

Well, I would say that the true ecumenist is someone following the Holy Father's encyclical Ut Unum Sint.  There he makes clear that the ecumenical efforts of the Catholic Church are not at all an effort in reductionism.  I'm an ecumenist in the Ut Unum Sint sense, and proud of it.  But I would never want to sacrifice an essential of the faith on the altar of a mere formal unity.  Having said that, I make the following points: (1) no individual has all knowledge, nor do all Christians collectively, (2) even things we do know, we are likely to know imperfectly, (3) whereas two contradictory statements cannot be true, not all statements that appear contradictory actually are so, (4) often personal preferences or pet doctrines are mistaken for an essential of the faith, and (5) sometimes people mean different things by the same words, and the same things by different words.  This last point is in constant evidence in this folder, and the only cure is dialogue.  For some reason I feel that I should also make clear that that the ecumenist position is not that it would be a nice thing if we could unify.  On the contrary, it might mean more arguments.  The ecumenist position is that we have no right not to unify; separation is rebellion against the expressed will of God.
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Offline Ben

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #96 on: April 26, 2004, 12:46:26 PM »
Quote
(1) no individual has all knowledge, nor do all Christians collectively
,

I agree, but there is ONE true Church that holds the fullness of truth.

 
Quote
(4) often personal preferences or pet doctrines are mistaken for an essential of the faith,


I most certainly agree, but the Filioque, Papal Infallibilty, the Immaculate conceptions, are essentials of the faith, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church. And because of this, there is a serious dogmatic division between east and west that can not be ignored.

Quote
ecumenist position is that we have no right not to unify; separation is rebellion against the expressed will of God.  
 

Ignoring or shoving off to the side fundamental dogmas for the sake of unity is rebellion against the expressed will of God.


"I prefer to be accused unjustly, for then I have nothing to reproach myself with, and joyfully offer this to the good Lord. Then I humble myself at the thought that I am indeed capable of doing the thing of which I have been accused. " - Saint

Offline Jack

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2004, 04:27:38 PM »
,

I agree, but there is ONE true Church that holds the fullness of truth.

 

I most certainly agree, but the Filioque, Papal Infallibilty, the Immaculate conceptions, are essentials of the faith, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church. And because of this, there is a serious dogmatic division between east and west that can not be ignored.  

Ignoring or shoving off to the side fundamental dogmas for the sake of unity is rebellion against the expressed will of God.




First of all, how do you do that thing where the quates are broken up like that?

Now my response:

It is true that there is one Church that holds the fullness of truth, and that is the Catholic Church.  This is based on Matthew 16.  Otherwise, we would be left to our all too fallible discernment between varying positions on such things as the filioque clause.  I am not familiar with the Orthodox position on that passage of scripture.  There is, however, no logical connection between that assertion, and the realization that even popes can be wrong, and that, sometimes, another Christian communion might have a better handle on a particular issue.  Also, the Orthodox Churches are apostolic, and, hence, administer valid sacraments.

Yes, there appear to be serious doctrinal differences, and they can't be ignored.  That's why the two sides have to get together and talk about them.  At the same time, there are differences of opinion among Catholics and among Orthodox.  It is not the case that all Catholics agree on everything, nor is that the case with the Orthodox.  So both sides will have to prayerfully and humbly discern what is essential to unity and what is not.  Moreover, the idea that one side might mean something different than what the other side understands shouldn't be laughed out of court without a hearing.  Dialogue is the only answer if union is possible.

As to your last statement, I agree, but only to a point.  If we're going to use any given doctrinal point as a basis for division, we have to make sure it makes a real difference on the ground.  The reason why the Arian controversy was so important was because if Jesus was anything less than God, than God would not have sacrificed himself, and the reconciliation could not have happened.  What I guess I am proposing is a pragmatic test for whether doctrines should divide us.  There must be some such test, otherwise we could make the manner of crossing ourselves a bone of contention if we were determined enough.  All in all, it is safer to err on the side of unity.  As God said through Moses, "Keep far from a false charge, and do not slay the innocent and the righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked." (Exodus 23:7)   I think that often we don't have faith that God will take care of his Church, and become overzealous in excluding those who we don't think measure up.  It is better to take the risk that you are united with false brothers that to risk excluding those who are the true ones.  Remember the parable of the wheat and the weeds.
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Offline Anastasios

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2004, 04:38:48 PM »
It's really not "kosher" to go proclaiming the Catholic Church as the true Church on an Orthodox message board.  The Orthodox do indeed see Mat 16:18 as giving the keys to Peter, of course Jesus gave the same power to all the apostles at a later date.  St Cyprian in his On the Unity of The Catholic Church stated taht all bishops are the successors to Peter in response to the Roman Pope Stephen of that time trying to make something special out of the Petrine role.

The Orthodox Church is the True Church of Christ.

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Offline Brendan03

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2004, 05:36:33 PM »
Indeed, and even if you believe that St Cyprian was wrong, the fact that he so vociferously disagreed with Pope Stephen's appraisal of his own role is indication in itself that the Bishops of the Church, even at this early date, had a fundamental disagreement with Rome about the nature, scope and basis of papal authority within the Church.  Almost 2000 years later and we still do not agree, but that disagreement is nothing new, and was in the church long before the more formal separation at the beginning of the second millenium.  Heck, the APOSTLES were fighting about this even when CHRIST was here in the flesh!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2004, 05:38:55 PM by Brendan03 »
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Offline ZoeTheodora

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2004, 06:40:28 PM »
It's really not "kosher" to go proclaiming the Catholic Church as the true Church on an Orthodox message board.  The Orthodox do indeed see Mat 16:18 as giving the keys to Peter, of course Jesus gave the same power to all the apostles at a later date.  St Cyprian in his On the Unity of The Catholic Church stated taht all bishops are the successors to Peter in response to the Roman Pope Stephen of that time trying to make something special out of the Petrine role.

The Orthodox Church is the True Church of Christ.

anastasios

Dear Dustin:

Your "history" is debatable, to say the very least.

But I'm a bit perplexed, once again, by the fact that you hamstring Catholics on this particular forum-within-a-forum  :-X --and then turn around and make this quasi-papal  Pronunciamento ("The Orthodox Church is the True Church of Christ") as if it were unassailable truth which cannot even be questioned, much less debated.

I know of NO Catholic forum which stacks the deck in this way. Au contraire--many Catholic fora are routinely visited by Orthodox and others who vociferously (and often insultingly) challenge Catholic beliefs. The Catholic moderators usually permit this in the interests of the free exchange of ideas. After all, when you suppress all challenges to your belief system, that's not "debate" or "discussion."  It's a monologue.

You are certainly well within your rights to exercise whatever censorship you want on your own board. But then, why call it a discussion forum?   ???

Also--doesn't it evince a certin insecurity about your position if you can't allow real debate on it?

These are sincere questions!

God bless,

Diane

« Last Edit: April 26, 2004, 06:42:11 PM by ZoeTheodora »

Offline ZoeTheodora

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2004, 06:50:00 PM »
Indeed, and even if you believe that St Cyprian was wrong, the fact that he so vociferously disagreed with Pope Stephen's appraisal of his own role is indication in itself that the Bishops of the Church, even at this early date, had a fundamental disagreement with Rome about the nature, scope and basis of papal authority within the Church.

It means no such thing. Forgive me, but ISTM you fundamentally misunderstand the Catholic doctrine of papal jurisdictional primacy. Catholicism has never claimed that the pope is some sort of absolute dictator whose lightest word cannot be questioned. In Catholic Teaching, Papal primacy and episcopal collegiality work together. They do not exclude each other.

For a very thorough, meticulously researched discussion of the struggle between Pope St. Stephen and St. Cyprian, I would refer you to *The Primitive Church and the See of Peter* by Father Luke Rivington. It's out of print now but available at university libraries. Also, I can point you to a source for a free bound/xeroxed copy. ;D

I would also recommend the excellent discussion on Cyprian in Fr. Stanley Jaki's *The Keys of the Kingdom.*

God bless ;D

Diane

P.S. Re the topic at the head of this thread: One should *always* obey one's priest, not the promptings of what one thinks is the Holy Spirit. Jesus always blesses obedience to legitimate Church authority.

Offline Anastasios

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2004, 06:53:23 PM »
Dear Diane,

Please refer to me by my saint's name Anastasios which is how I post because you are only going to confuse people by using my given name.

Diane, we allow plenty of debate but when people come in saying their Church is true and ours isn't, and base it on Mat 16:18 (one of the weakest arguments in favor of the Papacy I have ever seen), we get annoyed. You see, we have a right to have a forum where Orthodoxy is free from constant attack, where Orthodox can gather and discuss Orthodoxy without constantly being challenged.

I set up the Catholic-Orthodox discussion area to be a bit more lenient and free exchange of ideas is usually allowed in this forum.  However, to blatantly push Catholicism on an Orthodox forum is not polite.  The Your Catholic.com forum instituted a similar policy against Orthodox posting on it in support of Orthodoxy awhile ago.  Steve Ray's board is a bit more loose you are right but if I started denouncing Catholicism often and loudly I woudl be warned eventually.

It's not that Orthodox are afraid to debate, it's that sometimes there needs to be a safe haven for people to discuss their faith.  Those wanting a free for all between Catholics and Orthodox can post on the byzcath.org forum.

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Offline ZoeTheodora

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2004, 06:56:48 PM »
Hi, Anastasios:

Point well taken. You're right--one does want a safe haven. How well I know it!!!!

Free-for-all at ByzCath--ain't that the truth! ;)

God bless,

Diane

Offline JoeZollars

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2004, 06:57:55 PM »
I would personally like to commend Anastasios.  I have foudn that he is an overly fair moderator  (alot more leniant than a certain other Orthodox board ahem).    Also OC.net provides a place where inquirers can ask their questions regarding teh Orthodox faith without being badgered by non-orthodox tonot become Orthodox.  this is by far one of the best forums I have ever seen for learning about such things.

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Offline Ben

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2004, 07:16:40 PM »
I agree with Joe. I have found Anastasios to be very fair. This forum is a great place and a wonderful haven for everyone, even Catholics.
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Offline Father H

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2009, 04:53:57 PM »
Dear RB:

This is an Orthodox forum.  I invited you here due to seeing your positive comments about Palestinian Christians (both Eastern and Western) on another forum.  You seem to be more interested in discussing Orthodox vs. Catholic on this forum, which is fine.  However, when Orthodox tell you what the Orthodox Church teaches and you continue to argue with them that their Church is wrong, etc., then it starts to get old and your welcome gets worn out so to speak.  This thread is the culmination of your posting style which constantly questions the Orthodox Church's decisions.  The Orthodox Church does what the Orthodox Church does and if you have questions about why, then ask them.  Minor questions along the lines of "are you sure this is the best proceedure" are also fine.  But arguing "the Holy Spirit pushed me in a way that directly contradicts what you believe" is not ok.  You are really pushing it this time.

One can only wonder your motives for posting this.  You know Orthodox get upset when others commune in their churches. Yet you keep pushing the idea that God is making you do this.  Even if he were, you should not be shoving it in people's faces which is scandalous!  IT IS AGAINST THE ORTHODOX CHURCH'S POLICY FOR YOU TO COMMUNE IN IT AND IF YOU KEEP POSTING THAT IT IS OK FOR YOU TO IGNORE THE TEACHINGS OF ORTHODOXY THEN ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION HERE MAY HAVE TO BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU.

anastasios

anastasio,

I am not pushing in people's faces that I commune in your churches. I said that I have communed in your churches because I felt compel to. I have also said that I spoke to my priest about it and he told me that I needed their bishop's permission first. HE also said that I needed to respect your laws.

I never said that the orthodox church is wrong I just disagree with it. Is it ok to disagree with the orthodox church?

But Holy Communion in the Orthodox Church is "the fullness of the cup of the Faith."   As St. Justin the Martyr points out in the early Church, no one should partake unless they believe as the Church believes.  We cannot separate the Faith from the chalice. 
       Also, an interesting note in the Church Fathers on this matter:   "Question:  If a child of say seven years of age, or any adult person, find an opportunity at any place, when the offering is being made, and unwittingly communes while he is a catechumen, what ought ot be done about him?  Answer:  He ought to be illumined (referring to baptism and chrismation, or for the already baptized, chrismation), for he has been called by God"  (St. Timothy of Alexandria, Canon 1).   Thus, from an Orthodox point of view, this "pull" that you feel indicates that God is calling you to be an Orthodox Christian, not to "cross commune" clandestinely.   

Offline ialmisry

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2009, 05:01:04 PM »
Dear RB:

This is an Orthodox forum.  I invited you here due to seeing your positive comments about Palestinian Christians (both Eastern and Western) on another forum.  You seem to be more interested in discussing Orthodox vs. Catholic on this forum, which is fine.  However, when Orthodox tell you what the Orthodox Church teaches and you continue to argue with them that their Church is wrong, etc., then it starts to get old and your welcome gets worn out so to speak.  This thread is the culmination of your posting style which constantly questions the Orthodox Church's decisions.  The Orthodox Church does what the Orthodox Church does and if you have questions about why, then ask them.  Minor questions along the lines of "are you sure this is the best proceedure" are also fine.  But arguing "the Holy Spirit pushed me in a way that directly contradicts what you believe" is not ok.  You are really pushing it this time.

One can only wonder your motives for posting this.  You know Orthodox get upset when others commune in their churches. Yet you keep pushing the idea that God is making you do this.  Even if he were, you should not be shoving it in people's faces which is scandalous!  IT IS AGAINST THE ORTHODOX CHURCH'S POLICY FOR YOU TO COMMUNE IN IT AND IF YOU KEEP POSTING THAT IT IS OK FOR YOU TO IGNORE THE TEACHINGS OF ORTHODOXY THEN ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION HERE MAY HAVE TO BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU.

anastasios

anastasio,

I am not pushing in people's faces that I commune in your churches. I said that I have communed in your churches because I felt compel to. I have also said that I spoke to my priest about it and he told me that I needed their bishop's permission first. HE also said that I needed to respect your laws.

I never said that the orthodox church is wrong I just disagree with it. Is it ok to disagree with the orthodox church?

But Holy Communion in the Orthodox Church is "the fullness of the cup of the Faith."   As St. Justin the Martyr points out in the early Church, no one should partake unless they believe as the Church believes.  We cannot separate the Faith from the chalice. 
       Also, an interesting note in the Church Fathers on this matter:   "Question:  If a child of say seven years of age, or any adult person, find an opportunity at any place, when the offering is being made, and unwittingly communes while he is a catechumen, what ought ot be done about him?  Answer:  He ought to be illumined (referring to baptism and chrismation, or for the already baptized, chrismation), for he has been called by God"  (St. Timothy of Alexandria, Canon 1).   Thus, from an Orthodox point of view, this "pull" that you feel indicates that God is calling you to be an Orthodox Christian, not to "cross commune" clandestinely.   

Well, RB, there's your answer: if you are called by God, the Holy Spirit is pulling you to Orthdooxy.  If you don't "feel the need to become Orthodox," then another spirit is pulling you in the opposite direction.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2009, 05:06:51 PM »
This thread is about five years old.

Offline Father H

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2009, 05:25:51 PM »
This thread is about five years old.

Sorry, must have hit another thread at bottom thinking was run on thread.  Again, my apologies for raising a stinking corpse.   ;)

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2009, 05:32:07 PM »
This thread is about five years old.

Sorry, must have hit another thread at bottom thinking was run on thread.  Again, my apologies for raising a stinking corpse.   ;)
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #111 on: May 04, 2009, 01:43:02 AM »
 As old as this thread may be, I found it very interesting.
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #112 on: May 04, 2009, 02:10:04 AM »
ChristusDominus,

I moved your request into the foreign language section:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21088.0.html


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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #113 on: May 04, 2009, 07:27:28 AM »
This thread is about five years old.

Sorry, must have hit another thread at bottom thinking was run on thread.  Again, my apologies for raising a stinking corpse.   ;)

You made an interesting point, so it's ok.  Just don't expect any of the people principally involved in the debate to answer!
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Offline Papist

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #114 on: May 04, 2009, 09:52:30 AM »
Is that bad?

To Vatican II loving ecumenists devoted to the Novus Ordo Mass.....YEP.
Not that RB, is any of the above ;)
Wait a second here. I love Vatican II and the Novus Ordo when celebrated properly. I also think that ecumenism is important because it is God's will to bring all of his children who were reborn in baptism back to the Catholic Church. I still consider myself a traditionalist because I believe in all the dogmatic teachings of the Church and even the things that are not at the level of dogma but are merely proposed for belief. I believe that the mass (Novus Ordo or otherwise) should be celebrated ad orientum and that the music at the mass should be either Gregorian Chant or hymns with organ. I am unashamed that I compltetely and totally believe that the Church is correct in her moral teaching and that the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church alone is the spotless bride of Christ, infallibly proclaiming the truth as revealed by the only God, the triune God.
So does my love for Vatican II and the Novus Ordo mean that I am not a traditionalist? I hardly think that is the case.
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Offline Papist

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #115 on: May 04, 2009, 09:55:43 AM »

  Those wanting a free for all between Catholics and Orthodox can post on the byzcath.org forum.

Anastasios
Actually, on Byzcath.org, if you believe in the dogmatic teachings of the Church like papal infalibility or the immaculate conception and believe that all Catholics, Eastern, Oriental, or Western are bound to the beliefs, you get banned.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 10:09:22 AM by Papist »
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Papist

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #116 on: May 04, 2009, 10:08:31 AM »
Perhaps the person feeling the pull is feeling something that all of should feel. Not necessaryily the call to intercommune, as that would be inappropriate since we do not share the enirety of the faith. However, I think the pull to commune together is a really a pull toward unity, towards brining Rome and Constantinople back into unity with eachother. And whether you believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church, or the Eastern Orthodox Church is the true Churuch, you must believe that Christ wants us to be one, under the banner of whichever Church was established by God. If the Catholic Church was wrong, then the East should desire that the Catholic Church drop what errors she posses and return to communion with the East. If the Eastern Orthodox Church is wrong, then Catholics should desire that the Eastern Orthodox Church drop her error and return to communion with Rome. That all being said, none of this will happen without dialogue, charity, and prayer.
HOWEVER, in the mean time, we Catholics need not insult our Orthodox brothers and sisters by taking communion from their Churches when we are forbidden to do so.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Douglas

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #117 on: May 04, 2009, 10:14:08 AM »
The title of this thread reveals the true spirit of the original poster. It's a provocative title... meant to stir up controversy. The OP knows very well that Orthodox believers will be upset; that's a given. This in turn reveals that it is not the Holy Spirit but rather a very unholy spirit that has lead him to these actions. When we receive unworthily, we receive to our condemnation. May the Lord have mercy upon this individual.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 10:15:15 AM by Douglas »
Douglas no longer posts on the forum.

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #118 on: May 04, 2009, 11:02:52 AM »
Why have all these "dead, and ancient threads" been resurrected lately?

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #119 on: May 04, 2009, 11:14:45 AM »
The title of this thread reveals the true spirit of the original poster. It's a provocative title... meant to stir up controversy. The OP knows very well that Orthodox believers will be upset; that's a given. This in turn reveals that it is not the Holy Spirit but rather a very unholy spirit that has lead him to these actions. When we receive unworthily, we receive to our condemnation. May the Lord have mercy upon this individual.
Well said brother. :)
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Offline Vladik

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #120 on: May 04, 2009, 03:19:02 PM »
My familiar Catholic priest goes to my parish for mystery of confession (but in secret, no one knows that he is Catholic and especially priest) ….

Offline Papist

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #121 on: May 04, 2009, 03:28:25 PM »
My familiar Catholic priest goes to my parish for mystery of confession (but in secret, no one knows that he is Catholic and especially priest) ….
The priest with whom he goes to confession does not know that the man confessing is Catholic?
This is indeed an insult to the Eastern Orthodox Church.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Vladik

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #122 on: May 04, 2009, 03:31:33 PM »
My familiar Catholic priest goes to my parish for mystery of confession (but in secret, no one knows that he is Catholic and especially priest) ….
The priest with whom he goes to confession does not know that the man confessing is Catholic?
This is indeed an insult to the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Yes, he doesn't know.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #123 on: May 04, 2009, 03:54:17 PM »
One need not be labelled a "traditionalist" to recognize that in recent decades the Catholic Church has suffered under a great and disastrous Modernist-fueled Iconoclasm. Any faithful, observant Catholic should clearly see this. The Second Vatican Council was not the real cause, but instead a "Spirit of the Council," which had its beginnings decades before Blessed John XXIII became Pope. This demonic "spirit" was simply re-branded "the Spirit of the Council" when the 1960s came along. Unfortunately, many people were deceived by this new marketing strategy. The consequences are evident.

This trial will be endured as all past trials have been. There will be a great "pruning," as Joseph Ratzinger has described it in the past. There is now a discernible light at the end of the tunnel, and faithful Catholics are to be the instruments to carry our Church out into the light. Perhaps, God willing, someday our "Triumph of Orthodoxy" will be celebrated on the feast day of one Pope Benedict XVI.

As for intercommunion, it does great damage to true ecumenism for a Catholic to go ahead and commune in Orthodox parishes. How on Earth are ecumenical relations to be advanced if we disrespect each others' canons? I fail to understand why RomeByzantium got a definite "no" from his own priest and yet thought he could get a second opinion from an Internet forum.

Offline Jakub

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #124 on: May 04, 2009, 09:00:54 PM »
What ever happened to Joe Zollars ?
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline Marc1152

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Re:I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #125 on: May 04, 2009, 09:03:54 PM »
romanbyzantium,

Scandalous or not scandolous, I would have to go with what my priest says.

Your humble friend,
Demetri

You don't undertand the pull that I get. It is extremely difficult to resist.

If you are seperating the "pull of the Holy Spirit" from the Church, then you have miss understood what the Church is.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #126 on: May 04, 2009, 09:10:27 PM »
I don't think romanbyzantium is listening.
He/she hasn't logged in since the 2nd of July 2004.
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #127 on: May 04, 2009, 10:55:18 PM »
I don't think romanbyzantium is listening.
He/she hasn't logged in since the 2nd of July 2004.

It could happen
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Fr. David

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #128 on: May 04, 2009, 11:06:47 PM »
What ever happened to Joe Zollars ?

His website (linked to on his OC.net profile) is HERE.

 :'(
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Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #129 on: May 04, 2009, 11:32:17 PM »
His website (linked to on his OC.net profile) is HERE.

And an old blog site is HERE.

From that site:

Quote
May it be known
To whomever,

It is true that in the past I have been an Eastern Orthodox Christian. However, at the moment that is not true. Apparently my position that all people, regardless of whatever qualifier, are equal in the eyes of the law and should be treated as such is not welcome in that Church. I should make it known that I had never gotten into such a discussion with any member of the parish I was attending. The only way things could have gone down the way they did is through malicious gossip after an extensive round of googling my name. I find it hard to believe that my dull and boring life is actually exciting enough to someone else to prompt them to do this.

All that being as it may, since, in the words of Fr. Andrew, "Fags and those who support them* are not welcome in the Orthodox Church," (please note this is an exact quote) I am more than happy to take my monetary contributions elsewhere.

*By supporting he was directly reffering to my position against discrimination in the workplace against GLBT persons. I would note that Christ did not discriminate.

It seems that Christ is no longer welcome in the Orthodox Church, and therefore I too shall take my leave.

L'Chayim.

Joe Zollars

It sounds like he was really hurt.  Lord, have mercy!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 11:34:17 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline lubeltri

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #130 on: May 04, 2009, 11:33:37 PM »
On December 25, 2006, he announced that he had left the Orthodox church because of its stance on gay sex:

http://axiosaxiosaxios.blogspot.com/2006/12/may-it-be-known.html
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 11:34:29 PM by lubeltri »

Offline Douglas

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #131 on: May 04, 2009, 11:38:31 PM »
This thread should be locked. It was a set-up from the very first post and does not deserve our continued responses.
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: I have been taking communion in your churches
« Reply #132 on: May 05, 2009, 12:14:38 AM »
This thread should be locked. It was a set-up from the very first post and does not deserve our continued responses.

Agreed. 

The thread started before I even joined the site, and it is unlikely the OP will be returning to comment.

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