OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 02, 2014, 11:07:47 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Women Reading the Epistle  (Read 9402 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jonathan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 800


WWW
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2003, 10:06:42 PM »

My priest (Coptic Orthodox, he's done a lot of research) says that probably the silent prayers were added to keep the priest's mind focused while the congregation or choir were chanting something so he would have something to pray before moving on to the next part outloud.  In the Byzantine tradition the choirs became more elaborate than they did in our tradition, and so the silent prayers are more prominent there than in ours.  In the West, the choirs became so dominent that priest's role became almost disconnected and the Catholic practice of silent Masses emerged.  In our tradition we don't have any choral stuff or anything that only the choir and not the congregation could do (well, there's hard stuff, especially during Pascal week, but mostly), and the silent prayers are pretty limited.
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2003, 12:24:50 AM »

1)  On whose authority our these priests choosing to read the silent prayers aloud and not close the royal doors after the Great Entrance?  IF a synod of bishops decided to make that the current usage that would be one thing.  But I gather that this has really become an issue of liturgically and priestly anarchy - which is not good at all.  

2) IME many of the people who are big on the lay participation bandwagon (i.e never close the doors, people replacing the deacon's amen, silent prayers read aloud) are also people that NEVER attend vespers, orthros or the hours.  All of these services are mostly non-priestly and dominated by lay chanters.  If the intend of reading the silent prayers aloud is education, IMO (alas not very humble!) a priest would be better served by encouraging people to attend Vespers and Orthros and listen to beautiful hymnology that is loaded with Orthodox theology.

3)  There are several other options to education besides reading the silent prayers aloud.  Spend ten minutes each Sunday talking or reading from a book while people are eating / drinking coffee after church, classes, book readingd/discussion groups etc. etc.  Also how does the people saying the deacon's part help education?  If the Deacon audibly says it, I would possibly believe the intent of doing the anaphora aloud was education but by having the people say shows that education isn't the full story.

4)  Is this practice the result of an Orthodox mindset?  Or have protestant (or neo-RCC which is very protestant minded anyway) influences and rationalistic ideals driven this?

5)  What was wrong with the traditional practice to begin with?
Logged
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2003, 12:39:04 AM »

Nektarios<<What was wrong with the traditional practice to begin with?>>

They weren't Polish enough?  Huh Grin Tongue Roll Eyes

Hypo-Ortho
(Half-Polish, 1/4 Czech, 1/4 Ukie)
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2003, 12:42:15 AM »

hahaha Hypo....that reminds me though of a question I've had but keep forgetting to ask.  What is the liturgical language of the Church of Poland?
Logged
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2003, 01:31:36 AM »

hahaha Hypo....that reminds me though of a question I've had but keep forgetting to ask.  What is the liturgical language of the Church of Poland?

Church Slavonic, Nektarios.   But the official website of the Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church is all in Polish--an English translation option is not even available.

At sermon/homily time in most Polish Orthodox churches, AFAIK, however, either Polish or, in some cases, Ukrainian, is used (depending on the congregation and locality).  Most Belorussians also speak/understand Polish, so along the border there, Polish is the usual language for everyday communications, with Belorussian a close second.

Hypo (who thinks all real Poles should be Orthodox) Grin
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2003, 11:54:23 PM »

Thanks Hypo, it's intersting information.  When Metro. Herman was in Poland a little while back I noticed the Icons that they pictured from Poland on the OCA's webpage had Russian (gasp!) writting on them NOT Polish...so it made me wonder just how Polish is the Polish Orthodox Church.  Is there actually a large number of ethnic Poles that are Orthodox?

Nektarios - the Hellenized Slav
Logged
The young fogey
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,646


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2003, 01:25:59 AM »

Quote
When Metro. Herman was in Poland a little while back I noticed the Icons that they pictured from Poland on the OCA's webpage had Russian (gasp!) writting on them NOT Polish...so it made me wonder just how Polish is the Polish Orthodox Church.
 

Of course the writing is in Russian/Slavonic, because most members of the Orthodox Church of Poland are in fact ethnic Byelorussians and Ukrainians who are in what is now Poland thanks to changing national borders.

Quote
Is there actually a large number of ethnic Poles that are Orthodox?


My guess is probably not. Just like historically Russianness was bound up with Eastern Orthodoxy, so Polishness is tied to Western Catholicism.
Logged

Tags:
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.045 seconds with 33 queries.