Author Topic: Kneeling Prayers  (Read 2309 times)

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Offline falafel333

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Kneeling Prayers
« on: April 21, 2009, 07:49:32 PM »
Christ is Risen, Truly He is Risen

Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone would be able to shed some light on the kneeling prayers that are prayed on the Feast of Pentecost.

Are they referred to as kneeling prayers because the entire service is conducted while kneeling or because there are special kneeling prayers that are recited throughout this service or for any other reason.

Thanks

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 12:33:51 AM »
Christ is Risen, Truly He is Risen

Dear all, I was just wondering if anyone would be able to shed some light on the kneeling prayers that are prayed on the Feast of Pentecost.

Are they referred to as kneeling prayers because the entire service is conducted while kneeling or because there are special kneeling prayers that are recited throughout this service or for any other reason.

Thanks

They are called kneeling prayers because we are directed to kneel when these prayers are said.  The priest or deacon will introduce them with "again and again on bended knee let us pray to the Lord."  The whole service is not a kneeling service per se, as it is a Vespers service with these prayers; however, it is frequently called "kneeling Vespers," simply because it is a Vespers service which also includes these "kneeling prayers."

Make sense?
"If you are going to serve the Lord, be prepared for times when you will be put to the test. Be sincere and determined. Keep calm when trouble comes. Stay with the Lord; never abandon Him and you will be prosperous at the end of your days. Accept whatever happens to you. Even if you suffer humiliation, be patient. Gold is tested by fire and human character is tested in the furnace of humiliation. Trust the Lord and He will help you. Walk straight in His ways and put your hope in Him. " Sir 2:1-6

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 12:53:49 AM »
Pentecost prostrations are not supposed to be done until the Vespers that evening, which marks the beginning of Monday according to the liturgical day.  But since the presbyter knows that it is highly unlikely that anyone will come if he holds a service that evening, they usually do it immediately following Liturgy so that everyone does not miss out.  So it is against the rules, but no one seems to care that much.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 12:53:58 AM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline stashko

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 07:08:05 AM »
Isn't the Kneeling Done around The beginning of lent .The cannon of St ,Andrew....
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 07:08:46 AM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 08:43:18 AM »
Pentecost prostrations are not supposed to be done until the Vespers that evening, which marks the beginning of Monday according to the liturgical day.

Which makes Pentecost the shortest day in the Liturgical year :)

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 10:04:31 AM »
Isn't the Kneeling Done around The beginning of lent .The cannon of St ,Andrew....

Many people will kneel during the Canon of St. Andrew of Crete (in fact, kneeling is quite encouraged at all services during weekdays of Great Lent); but the OP was asking about the Kneeling Prayers that are read at the Vespers after Pentecost.
"If you are going to serve the Lord, be prepared for times when you will be put to the test. Be sincere and determined. Keep calm when trouble comes. Stay with the Lord; never abandon Him and you will be prosperous at the end of your days. Accept whatever happens to you. Even if you suffer humiliation, be patient. Gold is tested by fire and human character is tested in the furnace of humiliation. Trust the Lord and He will help you. Walk straight in His ways and put your hope in Him. " Sir 2:1-6

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 10:06:05 AM »
Pentecost prostrations are not supposed to be done until the Vespers that evening, which marks the beginning of Monday according to the liturgical day.  But since the presbyter knows that it is highly unlikely that anyone will come if he holds a service that evening, they usually do it immediately following Liturgy so that everyone does not miss out.  So it is against the rules, but no one seems to care that much.

There are many churches that do not do the service immediately following Liturgy.  But I'd say that the practice of doing so isn't more "against the rules" than, say, doing a Vesperal Liturgy (of Basil or Gregory) in the morning (as is done Holy Monday through Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday).
"If you are going to serve the Lord, be prepared for times when you will be put to the test. Be sincere and determined. Keep calm when trouble comes. Stay with the Lord; never abandon Him and you will be prosperous at the end of your days. Accept whatever happens to you. Even if you suffer humiliation, be patient. Gold is tested by fire and human character is tested in the furnace of humiliation. Trust the Lord and He will help you. Walk straight in His ways and put your hope in Him. " Sir 2:1-6

Offline Schultz

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 10:19:22 AM »
Pentecost prostrations are not supposed to be done until the Vespers that evening, which marks the beginning of Monday according to the liturgical day.  But since the presbyter knows that it is highly unlikely that anyone will come if he holds a service that evening, they usually do it immediately following Liturgy so that everyone does not miss out.  So it is against the rules, but no one seems to care that much.

There are many churches that do not do the service immediately following Liturgy.  But I'd say that the practice of doing so isn't more "against the rules" than, say, doing a Vesperal Liturgy (of Basil or Gregory) in the morning (as is done Holy Monday through Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday).

If the history of other "special" Sunday vespers services is a guide in my parish, we'll adjourn for coffee hour and breakfast after liturgy (around 11:00am) and around 12:30 those of us who haven't left will head back into church for (an early) vespers. 
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 10:34:43 AM »
Pentecost prostrations are not supposed to be done until the Vespers that evening, which marks the beginning of Monday according to the liturgical day.  But since the presbyter knows that it is highly unlikely that anyone will come if he holds a service that evening, they usually do it immediately following Liturgy so that everyone does not miss out.  So it is against the rules, but no one seems to care that much.

There are many churches that do not do the service immediately following Liturgy.  But I'd say that the practice of doing so isn't more "against the rules" than, say, doing a Vesperal Liturgy (of Basil or Gregory) in the morning (as is done Holy Monday through Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday).

If the history of other "special" Sunday vespers services is a guide in my parish, we'll adjourn for coffee hour and breakfast after liturgy (around 11:00am) and around 12:30 those of us who haven't left will head back into church for (an early) vespers.  

Sounds like a pretty good timeline; and gives an opportunity for people to get a bit of a rest before extending their Sunday Church experience (TM).
"If you are going to serve the Lord, be prepared for times when you will be put to the test. Be sincere and determined. Keep calm when trouble comes. Stay with the Lord; never abandon Him and you will be prosperous at the end of your days. Accept whatever happens to you. Even if you suffer humiliation, be patient. Gold is tested by fire and human character is tested in the furnace of humiliation. Trust the Lord and He will help you. Walk straight in His ways and put your hope in Him. " Sir 2:1-6

Offline Father H

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2009, 03:13:30 PM »
Pentecost prostrations are not supposed to be done until the Vespers that evening, which marks the beginning of Monday according to the liturgical day.  But since the presbyter knows that it is highly unlikely that anyone will come if he holds a service that evening, they usually do it immediately following Liturgy so that everyone does not miss out.  So it is against the rules, but no one seems to care that much.

There are many churches that do not do the service immediately following Liturgy.  But I'd say that the practice of doing so isn't more "against the rules" than, say, doing a Vesperal Liturgy (of Basil or Gregory) in the morning (as is done Holy Monday through Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday).

Good point!  It is interesting, in Bulgakov we see the practice in Russian and Ukraine of having Liturgy not served at its ordinary time, 9am, but moved later on Sunday so that the kneeling vespers could take place in the afternoon.  Of course, doing this means that you sacrifice doing Liturgy at the time of the descent of the Holy Spirit--the 3rd hour of the day (9am).  It also means that you make a feast day into a fast day.  Is better, perhaps, to start Monday of Holy Spirit early than to make Pentecost into a fast day.   

Offline Father H

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Re: Kneeling Prayers
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 03:14:21 PM »
Pentecost prostrations are not supposed to be done until the Vespers that evening, which marks the beginning of Monday according to the liturgical day.  But since the presbyter knows that it is highly unlikely that anyone will come if he holds a service that evening, they usually do it immediately following Liturgy so that everyone does not miss out.  So it is against the rules, but no one seems to care that much.

There are many churches that do not do the service immediately following Liturgy.  But I'd say that the practice of doing so isn't more "against the rules" than, say, doing a Vesperal Liturgy (of Basil or Gregory) in the morning (as is done Holy Monday through Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday).

If the history of other "special" Sunday vespers services is a guide in my parish, we'll adjourn for coffee hour and breakfast after liturgy (around 11:00am) and around 12:30 those of us who haven't left will head back into church for (an early) vespers.  

Sounds like a pretty good timeline; and gives an opportunity for people to get a bit of a rest before extending their Sunday Church experience (TM).

I agree