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Author Topic: Has Anyone Else Noticed a Strong Roman Catholic Influence on this Forum?  (Read 12439 times) Average Rating: 0
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Anastasios
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« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2009, 03:06:22 PM »

I'm rather interested in what this "heavy use of RC devotions" might be in the CR Orthodox parishes - both OCA and ACROD.

Is that a rhetorical question?
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« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2009, 03:25:21 PM »

I am the strong Catholic influence on this board. <flexing muscles>  Wink
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« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2009, 03:33:29 PM »

I'm rather interested in what this "heavy use of RC devotions" might be in the CR Orthodox parishes - both OCA and ACROD.

Is that a rhetorical question?

Maybe not; he's at an ACROD parish - maybe he doesn't see any "RC devotions" being used there.  I've been to one ACROD parish that seemed like it did (or would be inclined to) at the time (Sharon, PA)... But the chapel in Mercer (which operates as a "Parish" for most of the year) does not.
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« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2009, 03:40:21 PM »

Sharon is the parish of Monsignor Michael Polanichka.

I'm not sure what the policy is on linking to blogs, but I would suggest looking at this:

http://sergesblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/russian-easter-top-row-st-anne-banner.html

Since Young Fogey posts here, hopefully that's okay.  I put some comments in that entry.
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« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2009, 03:58:09 PM »

I'm rather interested in what this "heavy use of RC devotions" might be in the CR Orthodox parishes - both OCA and ACROD.

Is that a rhetorical question?

Maybe not; he's at an ACROD parish - maybe he doesn't see any "RC devotions" being used there.  I've been to one ACROD parish that seemed like it did (or would be inclined to) at the time (Sharon, PA)... But the chapel in Mercer (which operates as a "Parish" for most of the year) does not.

Yes, but I know that Aristokles, living in PA, must have exposure to more than one Carpatho Rusyn parish.
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« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2009, 07:23:46 PM »

I'm rather interested in what this "heavy use of RC devotions" might be in the CR Orthodox parishes - both OCA and ACROD.

Well, I once assisted in the choir at an OCA church, and the director asked us (the other choir folk) which version of the Creed we'd like to do.

Naturally, being the revolutionary type, I shot up my hand and said, "Let's do the one with the Filioque in it!"

Last time I assisted at that particular choir ...  Grin  Cheesy  laugh
That's hilarious. Did you say it out natural compulsion or did you say it as a joke?

I said it out of my natural compulsion to make jokes!  laugh
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« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2009, 09:11:55 PM »



  So which folks are demanding that EO start using Western devotions? And how is this becoming an RC influence? What does that even mean?

Christ Is Risen!

What I said was, " ... who are almost demanding ... " and by that I meant that after they've asked for and gotten the EO viewpoint about certain RC practices (the thread you're talking about happens to be the Rosary thread, but there are other threads as well) but continue asking, what's going on?  If I ask a question and get an answer I'm not necessarily comfortable with, I re-evaluate whether or not I should ask again or just move on.  Now if I continue to discuss it in a "why not?" manner, people will naturally assume that I'm trying to get everyone to see things my way.  And when people acknowledge that "my way" is not applicable within the agreed upon tradition and I still continue to ask "why not?" and don't stop there but press further saying I like my way and really want to do this my way, many people will naturally assume that I never really wanted a discussion in the first place but, rather, only wanted validation for "my way".  Now granted, this may not be an outright demand that EO's be allowed to do and see things my way, but it's borderline, which is why I said almost in my original statement.

Now then; how is this becoming an RC influence?  It seems that the more people hear about something, the more they're desensitized to it.  This in itself isn't necessarily a big deal.  But in some cases it can be.  Most folks here are mature enough to make up their own minds, but some arguments should simply not be allowed to continue ad nauseum.  Now here some people will try to apply my comments to a much larger context than what they were intended, such as free speech, thought control yada yada yada.  But the OC.net is not a society; it's a forum about Eastern Orthodox Christianity.  Sure, folks of all stripes are encouraged to participate and this only enriches the site.  But enough is enough.  If a person wishes to be Eastern Orthodox, there is a boundary (and a very wide one at that) with which to work within.  No one is forced to become Eastern Orthodox, but if a person wants to continually push said boundary, can that person be said to be 'orthodox'?  I would argue no.  Is this a judgment?  Yes.  Not a condemnation, but there is an established standard that can be applied to see what is or is not 'orthodox'.  Yup.

Now, looking at the 'free-speech' aspect of this forum.  I realize that yourself as well as Father Chris must make difficult decisions as to what to allow and what not to allow.  Some decisions are easier than others.  But once a person has been befriended, it can cloud judgment and affect decisions.  This, then, is what I would term as influence.

If what I have said is offensive, then please forgive me.

 
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« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2009, 01:21:21 AM »

He is risen indeed!

Thank you, Gabriel. You've expressed beautifully what I tried to say so many posts ago.
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« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2009, 09:14:32 AM »

I only sporadically read or contribute here but from this distance I don't see a preoccupation with Rome beyond what's usual in online Orthodox fora. I think it happens because unlike real-life Orthodoxy (not juridically one church like Rome but a communion of ethnic churches remarkably alike but little if anything to do with each other, even less centralised than the Anglicans) these places are convert- and inquirer-driven (RC posters, defensive sometimes ex-RC responders). It's the nature of this beast. Born Orthodox are less likely to feel like they have to prove anything.

(RC influence online is different to residual 1930s Greek Catholic practice in ACROD. As I wrote in the comments thread under the linked blog entry above, some Metropolia now OCA parishes used to have Solemn First Communion which ACROD and the South Bound Brook Ukrainian Orthodox still do as First Confession. Nothing wrong with that.)

As for boundaries and pushing devotions, as I think I wrote in the Rosary thread, the boundaries control what's done in church. Outside the Middle East, no intercommunion. No mixing of rites from different traditions, and the bishops believe it's not in their power to judge on the holiness of people outside their churches (with a few exceptions: Constantine was baptised by an Arian, St Isaac the Syrian was in the Assyrian Church not a Chalcedonian Orthodox one, and New Skete, 1960s former Greek Catholics who joined the OCA in 1980, has the metropolitan's blessing to venerate St Francis) so in Orthodoxy there's no liturgical commemoration of 'the other side's' saints. (All of which more or less mirrors Rome on these matters.)

Devotion is free: at home you can do just about anything and venerate just about anyone. (Again essentially what Rome says.) One doesn't have to pray the Rosary even if one is RC but why not repeat prayers and commemorate things in the lives of Jesus and Mary both sides believe in?

Finally I think most Orthodox don't have a 'spiritual father'; they have a father confessor for the sacrament of confession. 'Spiritual fatherhood'/eldership is a monastic thing much to do with obedience as practised in that state of life, which would be intrusive and cult-like outside a monastery or convent.
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« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2009, 11:28:49 AM »

I respectfully disagree. First off, I have a spiritual father who is not my father confessor/priest. He's actually a priest in a different jurisdiction than my own. He's been a great blessing in my life and that of my wife's for many years now. I know of other Orthodox who also have this arrangement. Secondly, practicing devotions that are not traditionally Orthodox in the privacy of one's home is not recommended Orthodox procedure. What say you to my suggestion that I adopt a Tibetan prayer wheel but use the words of the Jesus Prayer? And there are a number of evangelical devotional practices that I could easily adopt. The problem with doing this is that it's the proverbial thin edge of the wedge. If I adopt the rosary and the chaplet of divine mercy, why not attend RC services for the stations of the cross? And as one's begins to incorporate these RC devotional practices into one's spiritual life, I can see that it's only a small step to begin to attend mass, particularly since for many their Orthodox churches are at great distance. After all, we've slowly started introducing Catholic practices into our lives so it's really not a stretch to begin attending their services. And it's not out of the question to say, "Well... since I don't really know what Catholics truly believe, why don't I enroll in an RCIA class to learn rather than accept this caricature of what Catholics believe from others online?"

None of these devotions are needed by Orthodox. They "are" questionable in their theological content in spite of what some here are arguing. But the real point is: they could easily lead us away from the true Church. If we truly believe that the Orthodox Church IS the Church, then why are we playing around with the devotional practices of other churches? If Orthodox is RIGHT worship and RIGHT belief, then it is complete and lacking nothing. Therefore there is no need to accept Twinkies when we have the full banquet.
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« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2009, 11:56:04 AM »

I agree with the "nature of the beast" construct.  We live on a planet that is roughly 1/3 Roman Catholic.  I tend to see Orthodoxy through a Catholic filter. Anytime you guys use a word that the Catholics use, it needs to be explained as to what you mean by it in contrast to what the RC says it means. Using the word "priest" is unfortuate, because what they mean and what you mean are so different, although there are similarities.  My view of history has been more of a Catholic and Western one than an Orthodox one.  This forum is a real eye-opener for me.  For example, I tend to think of WWI as between Germany and France, the US and Great Britain, and minor stuff happened elsewhere, of interest to some dusty historians, perhaps, but not significant.  The fall of the Ottoman empire and its relations with the EP was skimmed over in my US history book. I have learned a lot on this forum just reading about things from very different viewpoints.

The Orthodox are in the minority. Even the English language has mainly been formed in a Catholic context.  You probably get tired of explaining how you differ from Catholics, but until we get familiar with you, that is probably going to be the case.  And Orthodox and Catholics are curious about each other, and there are more Catholics, so there will be lots of Catholic questions.

I don't see it as necessarily a bad thing.
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« Reply #101 on: April 25, 2009, 12:31:57 PM »

I agree with the "nature of the beast" construct.  We live on a planet that is roughly 1/3 Roman Catholic.  I tend to see Orthodoxy through a Catholic filter.

[ . . . ]

And Orthodox and Catholics are curious about each other, and there are more Catholics, so there will be lots of Catholic questions.

I don't see it as necessarily a bad thing.

Actually, I have noticed, since -- and hold onto your seats! -- I read a number of trad RC blogs -- oh no! oh dear! whatever are we going to do? -- that for whatever odd reason, there has been a resurgence of interest among trad RCs in Eastern Christianity, be it Eastern Rite or Orthodox. That PBS film, for instance, of the woman Orthodox chanter went viral on Catholic blogs, too, for example. And when it happens and somebody inquires or equally probable, says something completely off the wall, I step in and help out -- oh no! does that make me part of the RC conspiracy to take over this site?

What he says it true. It ain't an Orthodox world. It's a Catholic world. Like it or not, we have to live with them, which if you think about it, isn't really that hard, considering how Christianity has been stripped completely out of the liberal mainstream Protestant churches. Every Orthodox should pray fervently that the RC church does not go the same way, because in many ways, the RCs (at least the real ones, as opposed to the liberal, lesbian singing nun types) are our strongest allies in the war against evil.

Live with it, folks.


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« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2009, 01:14:01 PM »

I only sporadically read or contribute here but from this distance I don't see a preoccupation with Rome beyond what's usual in online Orthodox fora. I think it happens because unlike real-life Orthodoxy (not juridically one church like Rome but a communion of ethnic churches remarkably alike but little if anything to do with each other, even less centralised than the Anglicans) these places are convert- and inquirer-driven (RC posters, defensive sometimes ex-RC responders). It's the nature of this beast. Born Orthodox are less likely to feel like they have to prove anything.

(RC influence online is different to residual 1930s Greek Catholic practice in ACROD. As I wrote in the comments thread under the linked blog entry above, some Metropolia now OCA parishes used to have Solemn First Communion which ACROD and the South Bound Brook Ukrainian Orthodox still do as First Confession. Nothing wrong with that.)

As for boundaries and pushing devotions, as I think I wrote in the Rosary thread, the boundaries control what's done in church. Outside the Middle East, no intercommunion. No mixing of rites from different traditions, and the bishops believe it's not in their power to judge on the holiness of people outside their churches (with a few exceptions: Constantine was baptised by an Arian, St Isaac the Syrian was in the Assyrian Church not a Chalcedonian Orthodox one, and New Skete, 1960s former Greek Catholics who joined the OCA in 1980, has the metropolitan's blessing to venerate St Francis) so in Orthodoxy there's no liturgical commemoration of 'the other side's' saints. (All of which more or less mirrors Rome on these matters.)

Devotion is free: at home you can do just about anything and venerate just about anyone. (Again essentially what Rome says.) One doesn't have to pray the Rosary even if one is RC but why not repeat prayers and commemorate things in the lives of Jesus and Mary both sides believe in?

Finally I think most Orthodox don't have a 'spiritual father'; they have a father confessor for the sacrament of confession. 'Spiritual fatherhood'/eldership is a monastic thing much to do with obedience as practised in that state of life, which would be intrusive and cult-like outside a monastery or convent.

yep, yep, yep, yep, yep and yep. Also, yep.

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I don't, it can be summed up in one word.
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« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2009, 02:56:38 PM »



  So which folks are demanding that EO start using Western devotions? And how is this becoming an RC influence? What does that even mean?

Christ Is Risen!

What I said was, " ... who are almost demanding ... " and by that I meant that after they've asked for and gotten the EO viewpoint about certain RC practices (the thread you're talking about happens to be the Rosary thread, but there are other threads as well) but continue asking, what's going on?  If I ask a question and get an answer I'm not necessarily comfortable with, I re-evaluate whether or not I should ask again or just move on.  Now if I continue to discuss it in a "why not?" manner, people will naturally assume that I'm trying to get everyone to see things my way.  And when people acknowledge that "my way" is not applicable within the agreed upon tradition and I still continue to ask "why not?" and don't stop there but press further saying I like my way and really want to do this my way, many people will naturally assume that I never really wanted a discussion in the first place but, rather, only wanted validation for "my way".  Now granted, this may not be an outright demand that EO's be allowed to do and see things my way, but it's borderline, which is why I said almost in my original statement.

That is one possibility, but the other possibility is that the poster has been exposed to Western Rite Orthodoxy and has met such Western Rite Orthodox who pray the Rosary and they have provided him with some reasons why it's ok, and he sees people here saying it's wrong, and they may not be giving the best reasons, so he is trying to "drill down" the answers. Some people learn by asking questions repeatedly in slightly different ways.


Quote
Now then; how is this becoming an RC influence?  It seems that the more people hear about something, the more they're desensitized to it.  This in itself isn't necessarily a big deal.  But in some cases it can be.  Most folks here are mature enough to make up their own minds, but some arguments should simply not be allowed to continue ad nauseum.  Now here some people will try to apply my comments to a much larger context than what they were intended, such as free speech, thought control yada yada yada.  But the OC.net is not a society; it's a forum about Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

It depends on what you mean, but I tend to think of our site as a community and a society besides just being a forum. I regularly have met people from the forum in real life and have made made friendships through the site. Some of our longest non-Orthodox participants such as Keble and Ebor I have met in person and know to be honorable people with whom I enjoyed spending a weekend once.  That was of course centered around Eastern Orthodoxy, but Eastern Orthodoxy does not exist in a bubble.

BTW, there is no such thing as free speech on this forum. Just to clear that point up. There are boundaries, and they are enforced. I am getting the feeling the problem is not that we don't have boundaries, but that you may not be comfortable with the boundaries we have (which is fine for you to think if that is what you think).

If someone is receiving consistently wrong information about Orthodoxy on an ostensibly Orthodox board, that is one thing, but as I said before, people in real life do do the things these people are talking about and their priests and bishops in some cases let them.  Maybe the questions are being repeated ad nauseum because what posters here are saying doesn't jive with the questioner's experience in real life.  The solution is of course to provide better and more comprehensive reasons.  If someone is being belligerent though, that is a different question.  Snarky also does not fit my definition of belligerent.



Quote
  Sure, folks of all stripes are encouraged to participate and this only enriches the site.  But enough is enough.  If a person wishes to be Eastern Orthodox, there is a boundary (and a very wide one at that) with which to work within.  No one is forced to become Eastern Orthodox, but if a person wants to continually push said boundary, can that person be said to be 'orthodox'?  I would argue no.  Is this a judgment?  Yes.  Not a condemnation, but there is an established standard that can be applied to see what is or is not 'orthodox'.  Yup.

Trying to stick in the lines of being specific to threads about RC devotions, again, these people claim that there are Orthodox bishops and priests encouraging this stuff. And frankly, I know they are telling the truth.

Quote
Now, looking at the 'free-speech' aspect of this forum.  I realize that yourself as well as Father Chris must make difficult decisions as to what to allow and what not to allow.  Some decisions are easier than others.  But once a person has been befriended, it can cloud judgment and affect decisions.  This, then, is what I would term as influence.

I don't actually know the posters that advocate RC practices as ok in Orthodoxy, except for the young fogey, and he knows what I think

I tend to view this forum like I would a parish. I have a Protestant guy that comes to one of my missions. At coffee hour, he always talks about his Protestant ideas. But he likes Orthodoxy, and keeps coming back. I wouldn't silence him at coffee hour, unless he insulted Orthodoxy (which he never does). In the same way, friendly or not, I would not treat anyone here that way either.


Quote
If what I have said is offensive, then please forgive me.

It's not offensive; I just tend to think that we have different ideas of boundaries.
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« Reply #104 on: April 25, 2009, 03:19:08 PM »

As for boundaries and pushing devotions, as I think I wrote in the Rosary thread, the boundaries control what's done in church.

and

Quote
Devotion is free: at home you can do just about anything and venerate just about anyone. (Again essentially what Rome says.) One doesn't have to pray the Rosary even if one is RC but why not repeat prayers and commemorate things in the lives of Jesus and Mary both sides believe in?

That's been your consistent position for the entire time you have posted on the forum, and you do use your terms consistently and build positions consistently off those terms, which is highly commendable. I normally don't feel the need to engage you, since I already know we disagree, but due to the nature of the thread, the context, and the fact that there are many new posters here, I will step in to the fray respectfully, knowing full well that we have pretty much covered all of this before.

I disagree with your point though that there is some permissible dichotomy between one's parish life and one's personal prayer life, at least from an Orthodox perspective (if Rome says that about its communicants, fine).  The potential to be out of sync is great.

Quote
Outside the Middle East, no intercommunion. No mixing of rites from different traditions, and the bishops believe it's not in their power to judge on the holiness of people outside their churches (with a few exceptions: Constantine was baptised by an Arian, St Isaac the Syrian was in the Assyrian Church not a Chalcedonian Orthodox one, and New Skete, 1960s former Greek Catholics who joined the OCA in 1980, has the metropolitan's blessing to venerate St Francis) so in Orthodoxy there's no liturgical commemoration of 'the other side's' saints. (All of which more or less mirrors Rome on these matters.)

I am not interested in really getting in to the nitty gritty on the specifics since we've "been there; done that," but I think some of the underlying assumptions are both interesting and controversial, and thus worthy of discussion.  The idea that something is ok in the middle East but not here, or that the Church can't judge the holiness of people outside its communion (read any of the liturgical texts celebrating the feasts of the Ecumenical Councils, where people who are called saints by other churches are anathematized) is certainly an opinion that some have, but does not seem to be held in force outside of ecumenical (I am deliberately saying ecumenical as opposed to ecumenist) circles.  The fact that you make recourse to New Skete as an example demonstrates this: the supporters of New Skete and what it is doing are few and far between, and their experiment has not been repeated. The context of New Skete says a lot as well; it's not just about venerating Francis and Claire, but extends to some rather idiosyncratic things like ripping apart liturgies, letting dogs walk around in Churches, denying or questioning the existence of demons, justifying breaking of fasts because "we work" (as if the monks in Egypt or Joe Layman in 2008 doesn't), etc.  It's not my intention to create a laundry list of "why I don't like New Skete" but rather point out that their situation is a) novel and b) as a whole rather idiosyncratic, so using them as a justification for why it is ok to venerate Francis and Claire may not be the strongest argument.

To tie that in to the bigger picture, the more I think about it, and now that I am a priest, it's hard enough to live a basic Orthodox life for most people.  So if we have people told that they must do X Y and Z at Church, but it's almost a free for all at home, and we cite examples of outliers as proof of this, we may be technically correct that such things happen, but ultimately I don't think it's for the best of someone's soul.

If there is some pastoral reason that someone coming over from heterodoxy has some particularly strong attachment to some devotion which is not intrinsically anti-Orthodox, that may be a pastoral sensitivity, but I would not say that that is on the same level as saying something is basically up to one's discretion since he is at home in private.

Quote
Finally I think most Orthodox don't have a 'spiritual father'; they have a father confessor for the sacrament of confession. 'Spiritual fatherhood'/eldership is a monastic thing much to do with obedience as practised in that state of life, which would be intrusive and cult-like outside a monastery or convent.

It may be a difference in terms; I don't think there is much difference between a spiritual father and a father confessor.  I don't know of any monks that try to give their lay confessees over-stated cult like advice, or any priests that try to mimic this, although I hear there are some monasteries that do things like that (my advice to people is to ignore any monk or priest that starts seeming too interested in certain 'private' matters or wants you to get a blessing to mow the lawn).  A spiritual father is a father of confession for most people, although I do agree with you that most Orthodox just go to confession like Catholics.

While I clearly disagree with your view, I will reiterate that I welcome your and others' takes on things as you represent real life Orthodox people's take on things. As such, it's fair game for discussion on a "forum."

Fr A
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« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2009, 01:04:06 AM »

I tend to view this forum like I would a parish. I have a Protestant guy that comes to one of my missions. At coffee hour, he always talks about his Protestant ideas. But he likes Orthodoxy, and keeps coming back. I wouldn't silence him at coffee hour, unless he insulted Orthodoxy (which he never does).
But, respectfully Father, there is one poster here who routinely disrespects Orthodoxy, even openly mocks it.  Daily.  So, it's not that I don't necessarily like said boundaries; they just seem to change a lot.


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« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2009, 08:58:03 AM »

Thank you, Father. I know we'll never agree on much of this but I agree that in principle the intercommunion in the Middle East doesn't make sense. But it is longstanding custom and probably will never change.

(Longstanding custom has a lot of clout in real-life Orthodoxy... which also explains the 1930s latinisations in ACROD for example; they simply wanted to do what they'd always done. And why there never will be a 'Vatican II'/Novus Ordo imposed throughout an Orthodox church. In Greece and Russia, God love them, there'd be fistfights in the streets.)

In the Middle East Melkite and Antiochian Orthodox laity, although families identify as one or the other, functionally are the same church. They intermarry, in which the wife always joins her husband's church, go back and forth between the two sides' parishes, intercommune and have their children baptised at each other's churches. The only division is the clergy don't concelebrate. These two patriarchs of Antioch are near to each other in Damascus, Syria and are friendly. These aren't the 'evil ecumenist' bogeymen of online convert Orthodoxy as you know. They're simply ordinary Greek-rite Arab Christians.
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« Reply #107 on: April 26, 2009, 10:11:24 AM »

In the Middle East Melkite and Antiochian Orthodox laity, although families identify as one or the other, functionally are the same church. They intermarry, in which the wife always joins her husband's church, go back and forth between the two sides' parishes, intercommune and have their children baptised at each other's churches. The only division is the clergy don't concelebrate. These two patriarchs of Antioch are near to each other in Damascus, Syria and are friendly. These aren't the 'evil ecumenist' bogeymen of online convert Orthodoxy as you know. They're simply ordinary Greek-rite Arab Christians.

I can understand where they are coming from, YoungFogey. In a harsh environment for Christianity, both sides do not feel far apart at all. As a Catholic, I'd get a similar feeling in Oxford with the likes of Fr. Hunwicke.
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« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2009, 02:01:02 PM »

That is one possibility, but the other possibility is that the poster has been exposed to Western Rite Orthodoxy and has met such Western Rite Orthodox who pray the Rosary and they have provided him with some reasons why it's ok, and he sees people here saying it's wrong, and they may not be giving the best reasons, so he is trying to "drill down" the answers. Some people learn by asking questions repeatedly in slightly different ways.
Trying to stick in the lines of being specific to threads about RC devotions, again, these people claim that there are Orthodox bishops and priests   encouraging this stuff. And frankly, I know they are telling the truth.
Absolutely! Thank you. God Bless.
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« Reply #109 on: April 26, 2009, 02:10:01 PM »

But, respectfully Father, there is one poster here who routinely disrespects Orthodoxy, even openly mocks it.  Daily.  So, it's not that I don't necessarily like said boundaries; they just seem to change a lot.
Really? Disrespects?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #110 on: April 26, 2009, 08:37:30 PM »

But, respectfully Father, there is one poster here who routinely disrespects Orthodoxy, even openly mocks it.  Daily.  So, it's not that I don't necessarily like said boundaries; they just seem to change a lot.
Really? Disrespects?  Roll Eyes
Father Anastasios can guess in one shot who I was referring to (hint: it ain't you, friend.).
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« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2009, 08:58:06 PM »

Posting under the influence is a venial sin...
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« Reply #112 on: April 28, 2009, 09:28:11 AM »

Father Anastasios can guess in one shot who I was referring to (hint: it ain't you, friend.).
Man, I'm paranoid.....Sorry... Undecided
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« Reply #113 on: May 23, 2009, 06:56:51 PM »

I've noticed only two Catholic active members: Deacon Lance and Papist. I really appreciate their contribution to the forum.
Don't forget lubeltri.
How about me?  angel
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« Reply #114 on: May 23, 2009, 06:59:59 PM »

I've noticed only two Catholic active members: Deacon Lance and Papist. I really appreciate their contribution to the forum.
Don't forget lubeltri.
How about me?  angel

Well, since the quotes you are referring to were made on April 21, 2009; and you did not register here until April 30, 2009....

How could they have discussed you?
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« Reply #115 on: May 23, 2009, 07:11:55 PM »

I don't care what Catholics believe. Never was one, nor was any member of my family for the past four generations. And we're Irish.
That's odd because I read you conversion story and it seems you did inquire about Catholic beliefs regarding the Eucharist as a Protestant.
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« Reply #116 on: May 23, 2009, 07:15:03 PM »

I've noticed only two Catholic active members: Deacon Lance and Papist. I really appreciate their contribution to the forum.
Don't forget lubeltri.
How about me?  angel

Well, since the quotes you are referring to were made on April 21, 2009; and you did not register here until April 30, 2009....

How could they have discussed you?
True, but there's always room for fresh, new comments Smiley
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« Reply #117 on: May 26, 2009, 10:44:58 AM »

I am the strong Catholic influence on this board. <flexing muscles>  Wink

My hero!
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« Reply #118 on: May 26, 2009, 10:08:10 PM »

I am the strong Catholic influence on this board. <flexing muscles>  Wink

My hero!

Papist can bench press an entire hardcover "Summa Theologica" because he eats his spinach?   Grin Cheesy
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« Reply #119 on: May 26, 2009, 10:19:12 PM »

I am the strong Catholic influence on this board. <flexing muscles>  Wink

My hero!

Papist can bench press an entire hardcover "Summa Theologica" because he eats his spinach?   Grin Cheesy
In leotards and leg warmers? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #120 on: May 26, 2009, 11:30:28 PM »

I am the strong Catholic influence on this board. <flexing muscles>  Wink

My hero!

Papist can bench press an entire hardcover "Summa Theologica" because he eats his spinach?   Grin Cheesy
In leotards and leg warmers? Roll Eyes
What are you suggesting? LOL
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« Reply #121 on: May 26, 2009, 11:31:15 PM »

I am the strong Catholic influence on this board. <flexing muscles>  Wink

My hero!

Papist can bench press an entire hardcover "Summa Theologica" because he eats his spinach?   Grin Cheesy
You have me pegged. This is exactly what I have been doing! lol
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Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
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« Reply #122 on: May 30, 2009, 01:56:09 AM »

I think Papist might be Roman Catholic.  I'm not sure though.  It's just a hunch.

Nah, I think he's a Copt. 
I always wanted to be a Cop police
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