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Author Topic: Daily offering of Divine Liturgy  (Read 3111 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ghazar
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« on: April 20, 2009, 04:27:36 PM »

Christ is Risen!

Dear Brethren of the Forum:

In the Armenian Orthodox Church, the Divine Liturgy is only offered in parishes on Sundays and major feasts.  We do not have daily offerings of the Holy Sacrifice.  I'm familiar with the Latin Church's practice but I'd like to know what the practice is of other Orthodox Churches.  Is there anything canonically that restricts the offering of the Divine Liturgy even daily in your Church?  (I'm looking for short remarks as I don't have time to read long posts).  Thank you for any thoughts you can provide.

"That we may know Him and the power of His Resurrection" (Phil. 3:10),
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Sub-Deacon Lazarus / Ghazaros Der-Ghazarian,
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2009, 04:45:49 PM »

With certain exceptions (weekdays of Lent, for example), I do not believe there are any canonical restrictions on performing the Liturgy on a daily basis. It is generally not done simply because the number of people who would attend, the number of available clergy, etc. does not really allow for it. The canons only forbid serving the Liturgy twice on a single day.
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mike
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 04:50:09 PM »

The canons only forbid serving the Liturgy twice on a single day.

By the same priest and on the same antimension and altar. At my Parish we stand a table in front of the altar.
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Ghazar
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 04:54:50 PM »

Orthodox11,

Thanks for your reply and for confirming what I thought was the case.
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2009, 05:33:08 PM »

A contemporary Saint in the Orthodox Church, St. Papa Nicholas Planas served Divine Liturgy daily for over 50 years. Some monasteries also celebrate the Liturgy daily.
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rwprof
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2009, 05:36:59 PM »

The canons only forbid serving the Liturgy twice on a single day.

By the same priest and on the same antimension and altar. At my Parish we stand a table in front of the altar.

I knew about the altar restriction, but did not know that the same priest could not celebrate more than once per day. Thanks for the information!

Christ is risen!


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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 08:59:19 AM »

Orthodox11,

Thanks for your reply and for confirming what I thought was the case.

He's absolutely right: there is no restriction, as long as there are people to celebrate the Liturgy along with the priest.  If the priest is alone, then there's no Liturgy.

And as for the "no two Liturgies in a day" that counts for both the calendar day and the Liturgical day (i.e. no two Liturgies for St. Nicholas - i.e. one at Vespers and Matins, and no two Liturgies on December 6th - i.e. one at Matins and then at Vespers for the 7th).

The only exceptions to the "no two Liturgies" rule are for the 3 biggest feasts of the year: Christmas, Theophany, and Pascha.
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 12:11:00 AM »

Each of priest could offered the daily mass as the church offering to God and the spiritual foot for the faithful.
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 12:18:00 AM »

There is the issue of fasting from sexual relations before serving the divine liturgy, usually 2-3 days depending on local custom, and then on the day of the liturgy itself afterwards. This has the practical effect of limiting how often a married priest traditionally has been able to serve liturgies.  I am sure that there are many Churches and bishops who do not maintain this practice now, but that's not really my concern. I offer this as one reason why you don't see daily liturgies in the Orthodox parishes traditionally.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 12:19:03 AM by Fr. Anastasios » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2009, 12:22:52 AM »

I remember my priest once saying that in the old days, the priest used to sleep inside the church on the night before a liturgy.  That's not the custom now, though.   Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2009, 01:09:47 AM »

The only time I have heard of parishes offering the Liturgy on a daily basis is after the ordination of a man to the Holy Priesthood.  He does this for a week.  Such was the case when my godfather was ordained to the Holy Priesthood two years ago.
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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2009, 01:49:45 AM »

It should be noted the only day of the year the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday.
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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2009, 02:06:33 AM »

I frequently listen by Internet radio either to the daily Divine Liturgy offered in the Cathedral of the Holy Trinity in Piraeus, or to the daily Divine Liturgy in the Patriarchal Cathedral in Bucharest. Both cathedrals also have full daily services, especially the Patriarchal Cathedral, which has complete Midnight Office, Orthros, Hours, Vespers, etc.

The website of the Trinity-Saint Sergius Monastery indicates that a total of 3-4 Divine Liturgies (2 hours each) are offered in different sanctuaries within the monastery complex everyday, mainly because of the huge brotherhood (300 monks) and large number of visitors everyday. Jordanville, Valaam, the Athonite monasteries all have daily Liturgy, as do so many other monasteries. In the US, the ROCOR Cathedrals in San Francisco and New York have daily Divine Liturgy. The MP cathedrals in London, Paris and some other European cities also have daily Divine Liturgy.

I've been told by Russian, Greek and Romanian Orthodox contacts that in the "old countries", daily Matins and Vespers are common in parishes, and daily Divine Liturgy is offered in numerous cathedrals, many large parishes and most monasteries. It is apparently only the "diaspora" and the New World that have difficulties with maintaining weekday liturgical worship.


« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 02:25:21 AM by filipinopilgrim » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2009, 07:37:34 AM »

According to a remark of St. Ambrose, daily communion wasn't the practice in the East in his day but was a practice in the West (he compares the two unfavorably for the East).

Since Acts specifically identifies Sunday as the day of the Eucharist (Acts 20:7), it would seem that was the Apostles practice too of celebrating DL only on Sunday.  The Apostolic constitions seem to presuppose daily Matins and Vespers, but not DL.

From the second century there is evidence that the faithful took communion home for the week.  In the East this became antidoron, in the West it led to daily mass, when the practice was ban from fear of sacrilege.

Btw, Father Deacon, I don't know if Mardukm has clued you in that you have come up before:

Praise God I found some Armenian texts online to combat the senseless polemics:

From a hymn sung during the Armenian Feast of the Conception:
“Thou art the Flower which cannot wither,
Thy birth was free from the condemnation of original sin,
Immaculate, holy Virgin, We glorify thee!”

From the book “Mother of God,” there is a foreword by Armenian Patriarch Torkom Mannogian of Jerusalem:
“The name of Mary, the Virgin of the Immaculate Conception who bore the Christ, will be honoured throughout eternity, as the quintessence of purity, innocence, sacrifice and devotion.  No other human being has ever received, or been worthy of such vereration as this humble woman, so full of grace, from Galilee.” (p. 7)

I must thank my OO brother Sub-Deacon Lazarus Der-Ghazarian for these quotes.


LOL. Yes, we have met before:
The tour de force paper for understanding almighty God's truth:

Well, I guess the Vatican can put Humanae Vitae away.

Although I find the reduction of Orthodoxy to contraception and divorce a reductio ad absurdum (especially as triumpalism from the Vatican, where its differentiation between NFP and ABC is not supported by Patristics, and annullments ARE "Catholic divorces, just with Corban), I do agree with most of the conclusions.  I disagree with the conclusion that the case is so clear.

I was also curious about the writer: a Armenian name, but quoting EOs.  A search turned up a post (I'd link, but it's not allowed I believe):

Quote
To close I'd like to mention how I pray you some day consider me. I have read that Orthodox Saints are recognized as saints by the Catholic Church as long as they never attacked the Pope or Catholic teaching. The Armenian Saint Gregory of Narek is one example that this is true (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church #2678). Although St. Gregory was "post-schism" (meaning he belonged to an Orthodox Church after the split came about with Rome) he is still acknowledged by Rome as a Saint. This is the way I pray you some day consider me: not as a Saint, but rather as a faithful Orthodox Christian and deacon who has no animosity whatsoever for the Church of Rome; but rather as one who has great love, respect and veneration for the Church of Rome and her great moral leadership in a world crumbling away with sin. Please know that I spend a good amount of time every week defending Catholic teaching to Protestants and some Orthodox.
I am married to a Catholic. I want my kids to be close to Catholics. I work for the Archdiocese of Detroit (at Sacred Heart Major Seminary). I may even attend classes at a Catholic Seminary. So you may occasionally see me around somewhere in the Archdiocese, attending conferences and even worshipping with my brethren of "the other lung of the Church" (following H.H. Pope John Paul II's metaphor on the Eastern and Western Churches as two lungs of the same Church). If and when you see me, I want you to at least know that this is what is in my heart. Thanks for reading this and please feel free to write me and offer your forgiveness. It will be spiritually therapeutic for me to say the least.

So I'm less impressed from the Vatican line being spread by an apologist for it.

Btw, your paper praised Origen as a Biblical scholar.  He castrated himself on the basis of Matthew 19:12 (the Church canons castigate that, and it caused a scandal in Origen's day).  Talk about birth control.  Your source also fails to mention that the Fifth Ecumenical Council anathematized Origen.

Btw, more on Sub-Deacon William/Lazarus Der-Ghazarian is here:
http://www.geocities.com/wmwolfe_48044/index.html
Look on the right links: he claims he was transferred from the "Roman" church to the Armenian Church, but is still in communion with "Roman" church.  Maybe the Catholicos should look into what baggage the sub-deacon brought over, or the fine print in his "translation."

My understanding, since my post on the sub-deacon, is that if his credibility becomes an issue, I could post a link to where he makes these statements.  Mods?

I will congratulte you.  Finally we have something (although I am dubious above its validity, as I'll speak about in a moment) that is cited in support of your position.

Now, that being said, I have to state that having seen his posting on another forum (as no doubt you have), I wouldn't put his testimony as to what is Armenian Orthodoxy on a par with, say, Salpy's, as I would not put (no offense intended) your testimony on what is Coptic Orthodoxy on a par with, say, Mina or Ekhristosanesti, just in reverse: you both seem to have seem to lost something in your "translations."  The case I sighted above of what the Chaldeans do with St. Ephrem is a case in point.  Here, if, as you both claim, the Armenian Orthodox sing that hymn (which, btw, refers to her birth, neither her conception nor her ensoulment," then why does the official website of the Supreme Catholicos of the Armenian Orthodox, on the notes for the feast, EXPLICITELY state that the Armenians do not believe in the IC, as I have posted above?

I have seen a number of Coptic Orthodox who claim that the "Vision of Bernadette" which claimed "I am the Immaculate Conception" occuring on March 25 (whose Immmaculate Conception was that?) as proof that the title Immaculate Conception should refer only to Christ's.  It isn't clear from your post: whose Conception is being refered to (cf. the "confusion" over St. Leo's quotes)?

Since you praises God you found some Armenian texts online "to combat the senseless polemics," might you provide us links that we may praise Him too?  (I apoligize that I did not put the link up for the text of Ineffibilus Desu and Mufficentissimus Deus, an oversight).

I'll tend to your other posts later.  I am busy with our pope wanna be on other threads.
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2009, 07:53:20 AM »

It should be noted the only day of the year the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday.

I thought the Divine Liturgy could not be celebrated on the weekdays of the Great Fast (except for The Fesat of the Annunciation).
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2009, 07:55:32 AM »

There is the issue of fasting from sexual relations before serving the divine liturgy, usually 2-3 days depending on local custom, and then on the day of the liturgy itself afterwards. This has the practical effect of limiting how often a married priest traditionally has been able to serve liturgies.  I am sure that there are many Churches and bishops who do not maintain this practice now, but that's not really my concern. I offer this as one reason why you don't see daily liturgies in the Orthodox parishes traditionally.

One (Coptic) church nearby has 8 priests, so they have daily Liturgy, including during Lent (just not Mon-Wed of Pascha Week)
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 09:05:37 AM »

It should be noted the only day of the year the Divine Liturgy cannot be celebrated is Holy Friday.

I thought the Divine Liturgy could not be celebrated on the weekdays of the Great Fast (except for The Fesat of the Annunciation).

The Liturgy of St. Gregory is a Liturgy, it just has no consecration and requires pre-sanctified gifts. St. Gregory's liturgy is the liturgy that can be celebrated on the week days of lent so HandmaidenofGod is technically correct but you are also right in that no liturgy with a consecration can be served on the weekdays of lent. Holy Friday is the one were generally there is no Liturgy and instead just daily services are prescribed.     
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2010, 10:35:29 PM »

Using Google Translate, I have been "reading" Patriarch Kirill's December 23, 2009 report to the Diocesan Assembly of Moscow and it seems to state that Moscow has 170 churches with daily Divine Liturgy:


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.patriarchia.ru%2F&sl=ru&tl=en

Patriarch Kirill also notes that, as of December 23, he had served 229 services as Patriarch. (He was enthroned February 1 so that would be 229 services for nearly 11 months).
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