Author Topic: Orthodox chanting  (Read 1809 times)

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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Orthodox chanting
« on: April 16, 2009, 09:14:54 AM »
I missed this airing but PBS has it on its website. Nice piece, famous priest.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/april-10-2009/orthodox-chanting/2625/
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Cosmos

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Re: Orthodox chanting
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2009, 10:17:17 AM »

Great clip. Very nicely done.  8)

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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Orthodox chanting
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 10:49:46 AM »
Nice piece, nice voice.

Why do people keep circulating the canard "when the Ottomans took over our chanting became more Eastern?"
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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Offline Cosmos

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Re: Orthodox chanting
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 11:41:36 AM »
Nice piece, nice voice.

Why do people keep circulating the canard "when the Ottomans took over our chanting became more Eastern?"

I suspect that this perspective is more common among those churches which are ethnically Greek Orthodox and therefore initially Greek speaking church communities. By comparison, in the Antiochian Orthodox Church, the mother churches in the Middle East were first comprised of Aramaic speaking people, and later Arabic speaking people, and thus heavily influenced by Near Eastern culture in the vocal interpretations of the Eight Byzantine Tones used in Church Music. I believe that this has been true since long before the Ottomans came on the scene.

Just my humble opinion.  :)

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Offline rwprof

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Re: Orthodox chanting
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 01:17:00 PM »
Nice piece, nice voice.

Why do people keep circulating the canard "when the Ottomans took over our chanting became more Eastern?"

I suspect that this perspective is more common among those churches which are ethnically Greek Orthodox and therefore initially Greek speaking church communities. By comparison, in the Antiochian Orthodox Church, the mother churches in the Middle East were first comprised of Aramaic speaking people, and later Arabic speaking people, and thus heavily influenced by Near Eastern culture in the vocal interpretations of the Eight Byzantine Tones used in Church Music. I believe that this has been true since long before the Ottomans came on the scene.

Just my humble opinion.  :)

+Cosmos

It's far more likely that the microtonal system was native to the Levant and probably the entire Middle East, and not brought in by Arabs. History would seem to disprove the popular idea that the microtonal system was native to Constantinople, but was adopted to some degree later, since we know the Greeks had a diatonic, and not a microtonal, system long before Christ. See Pythagoras.





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Offline Cosmos

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Re: Orthodox chanting
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2009, 03:39:11 PM »
The following links may be of interest in relation to the ancient Greek modes and their associated correspondences:

http://www.midicode.com/tunings/greek.shtml

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/MT.html

http://graham.main.nc.us/~bhammel/MUSIC/Gmodes.html





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« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 03:39:57 PM by Cosmos »
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Offline rwprof

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Re: Orthodox chanting
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2009, 07:14:00 PM »
The following links may be of interest in relation to the ancient Greek modes and their associated correspondences:

http://www.midicode.com/tunings/greek.shtml

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/MT.html

http://graham.main.nc.us/~bhammel/MUSIC/Gmodes.html





+Cosmos



Great links, and as I said, all diatonic. The microtonal system which the Greeks have adopted as Byzantine is foreign to the Greeks, and originated in the Middle East -- just as Christianity originated in the Middle East. It's unfortunate that it's difficult in the US to find a chanter who doesn't chant the diatonic, Westernized Byzantine tones, even among the Antiochian churches.

Here in a couple of hours, I'll be getting ready to sing nocturns, then Liturgy.




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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Orthodox chanting
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2009, 09:34:49 PM »
^ I would probably doubt the supposed precision with which they describe the ancient modes; and, as modern rendering and study have shown us, they were actually (microtonally) off pitch a bit, rendering something less than an actual perfect tuning.

(Also, note that 4 of the 8 dominant modes in Byzantine Music are indeed Diatonic, with at least 1 of the other 4 being very close).

As for not finding a US chanter who doesn't do a westernized Byzantine tone, I'd have to agree, it's disappointing.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Cosmos

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Re: Orthodox chanting
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2009, 12:19:27 AM »
As for not finding a US chanter who doesn't do a westernized Byzantine tone, I'd have to agree, it's disappointing.

Christ is Risen!



Paschal Greetings to All:

By the Grace of God, we are diligently working on this issue. Your prayers in this endeavor are much appreciated.  :)

http://holycrossonline.org/our_ministries/parish_ministries/chant/byzantine_chant/

http://www.liturgica.com/html/litEOLitMusDev1.jsp

http://www.antiochian.org/sacredmusic/?sub=16&subName=Pascha

+Cosmos
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 12:28:18 AM by Cosmos »
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