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Αριστοκλής
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« on: April 16, 2009, 09:14:54 AM » |
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"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
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Cosmos
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Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 139
أيها الرب يسوع المسيح ابن الله, إرحمني أنا الخاطئ
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2009, 10:17:17 AM » |
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Great clip. Very nicely done.  +Cosmos |
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Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, ἐλέησόν με!
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
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May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 10:49:46 AM » |
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Nice piece, nice voice.
Why do people keep circulating the canard "when the Ottomans took over our chanting became more Eastern?"
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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Cosmos
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Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 139
أيها الرب يسوع المسيح ابن الله, إرحمني أنا الخاطئ
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 11:41:36 AM » |
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Nice piece, nice voice.
Why do people keep circulating the canard "when the Ottomans took over our chanting became more Eastern?"
I suspect that this perspective is more common among those churches which are ethnically Greek Orthodox and therefore initially Greek speaking church communities. By comparison, in the Antiochian Orthodox Church, the mother churches in the Middle East were first comprised of Aramaic speaking people, and later Arabic speaking people, and thus heavily influenced by Near Eastern culture in the vocal interpretations of the Eight Byzantine Tones used in Church Music. I believe that this has been true since long before the Ottomans came on the scene. Just my humble opinion.  +Cosmos |
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Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, ἐλέησόν με!
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rwprof
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 01:17:00 PM » |
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Nice piece, nice voice.
Why do people keep circulating the canard "when the Ottomans took over our chanting became more Eastern?"
I suspect that this perspective is more common among those churches which are ethnically Greek Orthodox and therefore initially Greek speaking church communities. By comparison, in the Antiochian Orthodox Church, the mother churches in the Middle East were first comprised of Aramaic speaking people, and later Arabic speaking people, and thus heavily influenced by Near Eastern culture in the vocal interpretations of the Eight Byzantine Tones used in Church Music. I believe that this has been true since long before the Ottomans came on the scene. Just my humble opinion. +Cosmos It's far more likely that the microtonal system was native to the Levant and probably the entire Middle East, and not brought in by Arabs. History would seem to disprove the popular idea that the microtonal system was native to Constantinople, but was adopted to some degree later, since we know the Greeks had a diatonic, and not a microtonal, system long before Christ. See Pythagoras. |
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Mark (rwprof) passed into eternal life on Jan 7, 2010. May his memory be eternal!
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Cosmos
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Posts: 139
أيها الرب يسوع المسيح ابن الله, إرحمني أنا الخاطئ
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2009, 03:39:11 PM » |
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« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 03:39:57 PM by Cosmos »
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Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, ἐλέησόν με!
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rwprof
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2009, 07:14:00 PM » |
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Great links, and as I said, all diatonic. The microtonal system which the Greeks have adopted as Byzantine is foreign to the Greeks, and originated in the Middle East -- just as Christianity originated in the Middle East. It's unfortunate that it's difficult in the US to find a chanter who doesn't chant the diatonic, Westernized Byzantine tones, even among the Antiochian churches. Here in a couple of hours, I'll be getting ready to sing nocturns, then Liturgy. |
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Mark (rwprof) passed into eternal life on Jan 7, 2010. May his memory be eternal!
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
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Domestikos tou thematos
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Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,015
May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2009, 09:34:49 PM » |
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^ I would probably doubt the supposed precision with which they describe the ancient modes; and, as modern rendering and study have shown us, they were actually (microtonally) off pitch a bit, rendering something less than an actual perfect tuning.
(Also, note that 4 of the 8 dominant modes in Byzantine Music are indeed Diatonic, with at least 1 of the other 4 being very close).
As for not finding a US chanter who doesn't do a westernized Byzantine tone, I'd have to agree, it's disappointing.
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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