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Author Topic: Chaplet of the Divine Mercy  (Read 17512 times) Average Rating: 0
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Mister Jim Dude
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« on: April 15, 2009, 06:31:39 PM »

Hi,
I am a protestant and have been investigating both orthodoxy and RC: I have a question about the text of the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy-
  Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world. For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

Would this be a prayer that an Orthodox Christian could pray or is there anything "theologically" wrong with it? I am aware that this is a Catholic prayer but I think it is beautiful.

Thanks for your insights. By the way, as I learn more about Orthodoxy, I'll be sure to come here with any questions I have.

Jim
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2009, 07:42:05 PM »

There is a significant different between the Eastern Church and both the Roman and Protestant Church's on the question of what was accomplished by Christ on the Cross. I suggest reading:

 " How We Are Saved " by His Grace  Kallistos  (Timothy) Ware.

I am sure you will get more detailed responses after holy week.
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 12:29:36 PM »

The Chaplet of Divine Mercy is not an Eastern Orthodox practice, the teachings of Blessed Faustina of Poland are in keeping with Roman Catholic teachings of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and not a part of the Eastern Orthodox teachings or beliefs.  For further ideas on the relationship of this devotion to Orthodox devotions you should best contact a local Orthodox Priest or Seminary.  You may be able to get an e-mail response by an Orthodox Priest by contacting the OCA website at www.oca.org which has a specific question and answer series with an OCA priest and seminary teacher providing the answers you seek.

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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 12:49:07 PM »

Let's deal with the devotion itself:

1) Make the Sign of the Cross.

2) Pray the Our Father.

3) Pray the Hail Mary.

4) Recite the Apostles' Creed.

On the large bead before each of the five decades (set of ten prayers):
"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Thy Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

On each small "Hail Mary"/decade bead:
"For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

After five decades, conclude by saying three times:
"Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

Optional concluding prayers:
"Eternal God, in Whom mercy is endless and the treasury of compassion inexhaustible, look kindly upon us and increase Thy mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Thy holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself. Amen."

What is wrong with this chaplet from a completely theological position? I am not concerned so much that it is Roman Catholic, or "Western". What are the problems? How does it portray Christ's work incorrectly? Thanks, and God Bless.
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 03:13:54 PM »

Anyone?
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Mister Jim Dude
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 02:41:28 PM »

The question PoorFoolNicholas asked is exactly what I want to know: I do know it's NOT an orthodox prayer but, can an orthodox Xian use this devotion without being theologically incorrect.
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 06:02:43 PM »

"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Thy Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

Soul and Divinity offered? This suggests Christ suffered and died in His divinity, which is patripassianism. Correct me if I'm wrong, folks ...
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 09:27:47 PM »

"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Thy Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

Soul and Divinity offered? This suggests Christ suffered and died in His divinity, which is patripassianism. Correct me if I'm wrong, folks ...

Actually partripassianism is the idea that on the cross, God the Father suffered. Its comes from the heretical sabellian/modalist view of God that God is only one person manifested three different ways as opposed to the orthodox doctrine that God is one God but three distinct persons.

I would guess that what Eastern Orthodox Christians would dislike the most about the chaplet of divine mercy is that it seems to assume the truth of the doctrine of the atonement which the EO church rejects.
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2009, 11:56:28 PM »

I have always loved this prayer.  It might be a bit unorthodox in its technicalities, but it is simply so beautiful.
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2009, 09:20:04 AM »

I have always loved this prayer.  It might be a bit unorthodox in its technicalities, but it is simply so beautiful.
I love it as well. I have read elsewhere on here about Saint Faustina, and the certain "difficulties" so to speak, regarding her visions. I know there are some issues with these things, but is there really anything wrong with the chaplet itself, as it appears above? I don't see a problem with it, but I am not a theology master either. I am open to hear what everyone thinks, and would love some help on this one. God Bless!
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2009, 11:06:08 AM »

I have always loved this prayer.  It might be a bit unorthodox in its technicalities, but it is simply so beautiful.
I love it as well. I have read elsewhere on here about Saint Faustina, and the certain "difficulties" so to speak, regarding her visions. I know there are some issues with these things, but is there really anything wrong with the chaplet itself, as it appears above? I don't see a problem with it, but I am not a theology master either. I am open to hear what everyone thinks, and would love some help on this one. God Bless!
?
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2009, 02:16:36 PM »

"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Thy Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

Soul and Divinity offered? This suggests Christ suffered and died in His divinity, which is patripassianism. Correct me if I'm wrong, folks ...


The phrase "Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity" is what Catholics use to describe the Eucharist. We believe that the Blessed Sacrament is Jesus Christ, whole and entire. That includes his soul and divinity. To put into Eastern terms, when we receive the Eucharist, we receive the whole Christ-life in us.

The Chaplet of the Divine Mercy cannot be understood apart from baptism and the Eucharist.

The Chaplet itself doesn't seem to be problematic from an EO perspective, at least to me---but i'll let those with an EO perspective decide.

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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 09:11:48 AM »

The phrase "Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity" is what Catholics use to describe the Eucharist. We believe that the Blessed Sacrament is Jesus Christ, whole and entire. That includes his soul and divinity. To put into Eastern terms, when we receive the Eucharist, we receive the whole Christ-life in us.

The Chaplet of the Divine Mercy cannot be understood apart from baptism and the Eucharist.

The Chaplet itself doesn't seem to be problematic from an EO perspective, at least to me---but i'll let those with an EO perspective decide.
Yes, what do others have to offer on this? I have waited for days. I truly want to know what is wrong with the form posted above, if I were to pray it? Anyone? Please? Pretty please? Cherry on top? Tongue
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 09:29:48 AM »

The phrase "Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity" is what Catholics use to describe the Eucharist. We believe that the Blessed Sacrament is Jesus Christ, whole and entire. That includes his soul and divinity. To put into Eastern terms, when we receive the Eucharist, we receive the whole Christ-life in us.

The Chaplet of the Divine Mercy cannot be understood apart from baptism and the Eucharist.

The Chaplet itself doesn't seem to be problematic from an EO perspective, at least to me---but i'll let those with an EO perspective decide.
Yes, what do others have to offer on this? I have waited for days. I truly want to know what is wrong with the form posted above, if I were to pray it? Anyone? Please? Pretty please? Cherry on top? Tongue

Have you tried asking your spiritual father?
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 09:33:42 AM »

Have you tried asking your spiritual father?
He is OK with it. I want to know what the theological problems are with the wording, etc. Please? I know that some are against it. Why?
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 10:10:03 AM »

Have you tried asking your spiritual father?
He is OK with it. I want to know what the theological problems are with the wording, etc. Please? I know that some are against it. Why?
I would think that many EO would object to the offering of the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus in atonement for our sins since the modern EO Church rejects the theology of the Atonement.
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 10:27:14 AM »

I would think that many EO would object to the offering of the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus in atonement for our sins since the modern EO Church rejects the theology of the Atonement.
I thought that the EO rejects the Satisfaction theory of the Atonement. The above statement doesn't have to suggest the satisfaction theory, does it?
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2009, 10:30:50 AM »

"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity  of Thy Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

One cannot offer Jesus to the Father , cause the word of God is not owned by us as an object or other thing , is not sorcery and paganism . God gave us His only beggoten Son , and He belongs to the Father , these words are kind of saying Jesus belongs to us and not that we belong to Jesus , the idea of the Divine Mercy is beautiful and I am sure it exists as the psalmist David says : Your mercy is founded in eternity . But i doubt you need to practice a ritual to "earn it" . I desire mercy and not sacrifice says the Lord . In the numbers of the Churches rituals stands the mistakes if you ask me , and my opinion is that if we continue like this the Church will die , we become very superstitious , and coming to Church is like going to an old sorcery or wich . And I think if we need to pray or ask for the Divine Mercy of God wich is from eternity it is not like the above , and the above formulation is wrong . Except the 7 Sacraments of the Church and the liturghy (the true liturghy) all other rituals of Church I consider them unorthodox , and people became from worshiping God , to worshiping objects , books , fallow superstitions , etc . This happens because of the bad interpretation and because of bad clerges and priest who don`t explain the mysteries and sacraments of God as it should . Remmeber the snake Moses rose in the desert wich was destroy later by a king of Israel , because the jews venerated the object and did not comprehended it`s signification and even gave it a name , it sounds familiar with the names some Churches gave to all kings of rites and etc . Be aware of the deceivement of the demon . If you do not know what an particular veneration means , don`t do it .
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2009, 10:37:11 AM »

"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity  of Thy Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

One cannot offer Jesus to the Father , cause the word of God is not owned by us as an object or other thing , is not sorcery and paganism . God gave us His only beggoten Son , and He belongs to the Father , these words are kind of saying Jesus belongs to us and not that we belong to Jesus , the idea of the Divine Mercy is beautiful and I am sure it exists as the psalmist David says : Your mercy is founded in eternity . But i doubt you need to practice a ritual to "earn it" . I desire mercy and not sacrifice says the Lord . In the numbers of the Churches rituals stands the mistakes if you ask me , and my opinion is that if we continue like this the Church will die , we become very superstitious , and coming to Church is like going to an old sorcery or wich . And I think if we need to pray or ask for the Divine Mercy of God wich is from eternity it is not like the above , and the above formulation is wrong . Except the 7 Sacraments of the Church and the liturghy (the true liturghy) all other rituals of Church I consider them unorthodox , and people became from worshiping God , to worshiping objects , books , fallow superstitions , etc . This happens because of the bad interpretation and because of bad clerges and priest who don`t explain the mysteries and sacraments of God as it should . Remmeber the snake Moses rose in the desert wich was destroy later by a king of Israel , because the jews venerated the object and did not comprehended it`s signification and even gave it a name , it sounds familiar with the names some Churches gave to all kings of rites and etc . Be aware of the deceivement of the demon . If you do not know what an particular veneration means , don`t do it .
Not to offend, but this doesn't help me at all.
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2009, 10:38:30 AM »

Are you aware Dan-Romania, that the icon in your profile is closely tied to the Chaplet of Divine Mercy?
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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2009, 10:42:52 AM »

I`ve been told that PoorFoolNicholas , and I`m gonna change it now , so that no one will be offended in me .
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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2009, 10:52:56 AM »

oops
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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2009, 10:54:11 AM »

I`ve been told that PoorFoolNicholas , and I`m gonna change it now , so that no one will be offended in me .
That isn't really needed. If you liked the icon keep it. I'm not offended.
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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2009, 11:20:10 AM »

I am going to be a little bold and say something. I have asked a simple question, and waited for five days for an answer. I have even looked at the other threads that deal with this subject. It seems that the Orthodox have a problem with this because it is Western, and Catholic, nothing more. I am aware of the problems with Faustina, and her diary, and visions. I only wanted to discuss the Chaplet itself. What I have found on this, and other threads, is that no one will deal with just the Chaplet prayers. They will condemn Faustina, her diary, and her visions, but never explicitly say what the problems are with the Chaplet. Now that this is argumentative enough, will someone reply?
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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2009, 12:08:41 PM »

I am going to be a little bold and say something. I have asked a simple question, and waited for five days for an answer. I have even looked at the other threads that deal with this subject. It seems that the Orthodox have a problem with this because it is Western, and Catholic, nothing more. I am aware of the problems with Faustina, and her diary, and visions. I only wanted to discuss the Chaplet itself. What I have found on this, and other threads, is that no one will deal with just the Chaplet prayers. They will condemn Faustina, her diary, and her visions, but never explicitly say what the problems are with the Chaplet. Now that this is argumentative enough, will someone reply?
I rest my case.
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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2009, 12:23:31 PM »

Well, I hope you participate in this beautiful devotion.
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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2009, 12:29:26 PM »

Monastery Icons carries this icon in their invbentory:
http://www.monasteryicons.com/monasteryicons/Item_Divine-Mercy_571_ps_srm.html
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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2009, 12:43:18 PM »

PFN, there are several older threads going into more detail.
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« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2009, 02:15:33 PM »

I am going to be a little bold and say something. I have asked a simple question, and waited for five days for an answer. I have even looked at the other threads that deal with this subject. It seems that the Orthodox have a problem with this because it is Western, and Catholic, nothing more. I am aware of the problems with Faustina, and her diary, and visions. I only wanted to discuss the Chaplet itself. What I have found on this, and other threads, is that no one will deal with just the Chaplet prayers. They will condemn Faustina, her diary, and her visions, but never explicitly say what the problems are with the Chaplet. Now that this is argumentative enough, will someone reply?

Perhaps no one is discussing it because for most of us (I'm guessing here but this is certainly the case with me) it is a non-issue. Quite simply: I am Orthodox (not Roman Catholic) and I have Orthodox devotions. I've no need to adopt or incorporate the devotions of other Christians REGARDLESS of how correct they may be. Why? Because Orthodoxy is right belief and right worship. It lacks nothing. If I were to adopt this devotion, then why not adopt dozens of other devotions that could possibly be shown to be theologically correct? Why not bring my bible to church and high-light it as my priest gives his homily the way good evangelicals do? Why not? Because it is not the Orthodox way; never has been and never will be. You say that your priest is fine with it. Well... evidently it must not be sitting well with you or you wouldn't be insisting upon an answer here. Do you want support so that you can lead others into adopting this Roman Catholic devotion? I don't understand your motivation here (and quite frankly, I don't understand the strong Roman Catholic influence on this entire forum which I had thought was an Orthodox forum). Ask your bishop and see what "he" has to say about this devotion. Ask him why we Orthodox do not need to incorporate it into our spiritual practices because I've never heard of any Orthodox saying the chaplet of divine mercy in the 18 years I've been Orthodox (and I've been a member of many Orthodox churches as well a member of three different jurisdictions due to our moving). It's a non-issue quite simply. We have our own beautiful and Orthodox devotional practices.
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« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2009, 02:22:06 PM »

btw... I've sent this on to my spiritual father, a priest and professor of theology at the university. He is a convert from Catholicism so he should be able to set your mind at ease. I'm off to work so don't expect an answer for several hours.
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« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2009, 03:30:48 PM »

"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity  of Thy Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

One cannot offer Jesus to the Father , cause the word of God is not owned by us as an object or other thing , is not sorcery and paganism . God gave us His only beggoten Son , and He belongs to the Father , these words are kind of saying Jesus belongs to us and not that we belong to Jesus , the idea of the Divine Mercy is beautiful and I am sure it exists as the psalmist David says : Your mercy is founded in eternity . But i doubt you need to practice a ritual to "earn it" . I desire mercy and not sacrifice says the Lord . In the numbers of the Churches rituals stands the mistakes if you ask me , and my opinion is that if we continue like this the Church will die , we become very superstitious , and coming to Church is like going to an old sorcery or wich . And I think if we need to pray or ask for the Divine Mercy of God wich is from eternity it is not like the above , and the above formulation is wrong . Except the 7 Sacraments of the Church and the liturghy (the true liturghy) all other rituals of Church I consider them unorthodox , and people became from worshiping God , to worshiping objects , books , fallow superstitions , etc . This happens because of the bad interpretation and because of bad clerges and priest who don`t explain the mysteries and sacraments of God as it should . Remmeber the snake Moses rose in the desert wich was destroy later by a king of Israel , because the jews venerated the object and did not comprehended it`s signification and even gave it a name , it sounds familiar with the names some Churches gave to all kings of rites and etc . Be aware of the deceivement of the demon . If you do not know what an particular veneration means , don`t do it .

But is that not the whole point---making an offering of Jesus to the Father? In the Old Testament, the Israelites made burnt offerings of cattle to God the Father---the true offering to which the sacrifices pointed is Jesus Christ---the Lamb of God. The liturgy is full of references to sacrifice and offering.
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« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2009, 03:31:54 PM »

PFN, there are several older threads going into more detail.
I know. I have spoken about them already above.
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« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2009, 03:39:54 PM »

Perhaps no one is discussing it because for most of us (I'm guessing here but this is certainly the case with me) it is a non-issue. Quite simply: I am Orthodox (not Roman Catholic) and I have Orthodox devotions. I've no need to adopt or incorporate the devotions of other Christians REGARDLESS of how correct they may be. Why? Because Orthodoxy is right belief and right worship. It lacks nothing. If I were to adopt this devotion, then why not adopt dozens of other devotions that could possibly be shown to be theologically correct? Why not bring my bible to church and high-light it as my priest gives his homily the way good evangelicals do? Why not? Because it is not the Orthodox way; never has been and never will be. You say that your priest is fine with it. Well... evidently it must not be sitting well with you or you wouldn't be insisting upon an answer here. Do you want support so that you can lead others into adopting this Roman Catholic devotion? I don't understand your motivation here (and quite frankly, I don't understand the strong Roman Catholic influence on this entire forum which I had thought was an Orthodox forum). Ask your bishop and see what "he" has to say about this devotion. Ask him why we Orthodox do not need to incorporate it into our spiritual practices because I've never heard of any Orthodox saying the chaplet of divine mercy in the 18 years I've been Orthodox (and I've been a member of many Orthodox churches as well a member of three different jurisdictions due to our moving). It's a non-issue quite simply. We have our own beautiful and Orthodox devotional practices.
First off, to say that no one cares because it is Catholic? Come on Douglas Roll Eyes That is all people do here! Explain why someone else, or something else is not correct. That is all that I have asked. Yet no one will answer one way or the other. BTW, you caught me....I'm a closet Roman Catholic trying to lead the Orthodox into the Papacy's arms. I am sorry you don't understand why I ask questions. You keep saying that you don't like all the Catholic influence on here. Why not start your own forum where you can control what is talked about? And, yet again, you are giving your opinion. Just because you have never heard of someone praying this chaplet within Orthodoxy does not mean that it is the definitive declaration on this subject. Please, anyone? Are there grave problems, THEOLOGICALLY, with the form of this Chaplet?
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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2009, 03:53:28 PM »

Perhaps no one is discussing it because for most of us (I'm guessing here but this is certainly the case with me) it is a non-issue. Quite simply: I am Orthodox (not Roman Catholic) and I have Orthodox devotions. I've no need to adopt or incorporate the devotions of other Christians REGARDLESS of how correct they may be. Why? Because Orthodoxy is right belief and right worship. It lacks nothing. If I were to adopt this devotion, then why not adopt dozens of other devotions that could possibly be shown to be theologically correct? Why not bring my bible to church and high-light it as my priest gives his homily the way good evangelicals do? Why not? Because it is not the Orthodox way; never has been and never will be. You say that your priest is fine with it. Well... evidently it must not be sitting well with you or you wouldn't be insisting upon an answer here. Do you want support so that you can lead others into adopting this Roman Catholic devotion? I don't understand your motivation here (and quite frankly, I don't understand the strong Roman Catholic influence on this entire forum which I had thought was an Orthodox forum). Ask your bishop and see what "he" has to say about this devotion. Ask him why we Orthodox do not need to incorporate it into our spiritual practices because I've never heard of any Orthodox saying the chaplet of divine mercy in the 18 years I've been Orthodox (and I've been a member of many Orthodox churches as well a member of three different jurisdictions due to our moving). It's a non-issue quite simply. We have our own beautiful and Orthodox devotional practices.
See my reply to this post here:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,20842.0.html
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« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2009, 03:54:25 PM »

Well, I hope you participate in this beautiful devotion.
Thank you brother.
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« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2009, 03:57:16 PM »

Nicholas,

Unlike the Rosary which is pre-schism, the Chaplet is a recent post-schism innovation revealed via private revelation that even Catholics are not required to believe in.  It is easily understandable why Orthodox would not be encouraged to use this devotion.  If one has time for devotion why not pray the Akathist to Our Lord Jesus Christ or His Passsion:

http://www.monachos.net/content/liturgics/liturgical-texts/235-akathist-to-our-sweetest-jesus-christ

http://www.monachos.net/content/liturgics/liturgical-texts/236-akathist-to-the-divine-passion-of-christ

Fr. Deacon Lance
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« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2009, 04:01:23 PM »

Nicholas,

Unlike the Rosary which is pre-schism, the Chaplet is a recent post-schism innovation revealed via private revelation that even Catholics are not required to believe in.  It is easily understandable why Orthodox would not be encouraged to use this devotion.  If one has time for devotion why not pray the Akathist to Our Lord Jesus Christ or His Passsion:

http://www.monachos.net/content/liturgics/liturgical-texts/235-akathist-to-our-sweetest-jesus-christ

http://www.monachos.net/content/liturgics/liturgical-texts/236-akathist-to-the-divine-passion-of-christ

Fr. Deacon Lance
Thanks to you my brother. I know that it is post-schism. I realize how it came about.  I just want to know what the theological problems are with the WORDS of the Chaplet?
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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2009, 04:09:02 PM »

First off, to say that no one cares because it is Catholic? Come on Douglas Roll Eyes That is all people do here! Explain why someone else, or something else is not correct. That is all that I have asked. Yet no one will answer one way or the other. BTW, you caught me....I'm a closet Roman Catholic trying to lead the Orthodox into the Papacy's arms. I am sorry you don't understand why I ask questions. You keep saying that you don't like all the Catholic influence on here. Why not start your own forum where you can control what is talked about? And, yet again, you are giving your opinion. Just because you have never heard of someone praying this chaplet within Orthodoxy does not mean that it is the definitive declaration on this subject. Please, anyone? Are there grave problems, THEOLOGICALLY, with the form of this Chaplet?

I'm haven't responded because it's a Catholic thing and I really just don't care.  Douglas can chalk up one to his explanation now.

And seriously, why the insistence that someone ratify your use of it?  Is it that you want public approval of your use of Latin customs or are you really that uncertain as to whether you should use it, even after consulting your spiritual father?
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« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2009, 04:40:15 PM »

First off, to say that no one cares because it is Catholic? Come on Douglas Roll Eyes That is all people do here! Explain why someone else, or something else is not correct. That is all that I have asked. Yet no one will answer one way or the other. BTW, you caught me....I'm a closet Roman Catholic trying to lead the Orthodox into the Papacy's arms. I am sorry you don't understand why I ask questions. You keep saying that you don't like all the Catholic influence on here. Why not start your own forum where you can control what is talked about? And, yet again, you are giving your opinion. Just because you have never heard of someone praying this chaplet within Orthodoxy does not mean that it is the definitive declaration on this subject. Please, anyone? Are there grave problems, THEOLOGICALLY, with the form of this Chaplet?

I'm haven't responded because it's a Catholic thing and I really just don't care.  Douglas can chalk up one to his explanation now.

And seriously, why the insistence that someone ratify your use of it?  Is it that you want public approval of your use of Latin customs or are you really that uncertain as to whether you should use it, even after consulting your spiritual father?
Well, from what I understand, he's not looking for a ratification of his usage but wants to know if there are serious Eastern Orthodox objections to the prayer of the Divine Mercy Chaplet. I think that there might be based on the differences in atonement theology. But hey, I (being a card carrying Papist  Cheesy ) am all for everyone praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
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« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2009, 05:44:34 PM »

I would say the prayer:

"Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

Mimics the prayer said by the priest when offering the Holy Gifts:

"Thine own of thine own we offer unto thee on behalf of all and for all."

It is not the part of the people to utter this prayer but the priest.  To use a prayer so closely related gives the idea that the people have the power to offer apart from the priest and the Liturgy, which is opposed to Eastern liturgical theology.

Fr. Deacon Lance

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« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2009, 07:01:31 PM »

I would say the prayer:

"Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

Mimics the prayer said by the priest when offering the Holy Gifts:

"Thine own of thine own we offer unto thee on behalf of all and for all."

It is not the part of the people to utter this prayer but the priest.  To use a prayer so closely related gives the idea that the people have the power to offer apart from the priest and the Liturgy, which is opposed to Eastern liturgical theology.

Fr. Deacon Lance


No offense meant, but if that is the worst thing wrong with the Chaplet, I think that it is fine. Anyone else? Even if you think it is a "Catholic thing" and just don't care.
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« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2009, 08:00:46 PM »

Well.....I give up....... Cry
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« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2009, 08:20:45 PM »

I would say the prayer:

"Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

Mimics the prayer said by the priest when offering the Holy Gifts:

"Thine own of thine own we offer unto thee on behalf of all and for all."

It is not the part of the people to utter this prayer but the priest.  To use a prayer so closely related gives the idea that the people have the power to offer apart from the priest and the Liturgy, which is opposed to Eastern liturgical theology.

Fr. Deacon Lance


Fr. Deacon Lance, this is the best objection I have heard to the prayer. Not that I want to get rid of it now, but you have provided some new insight into the debate.
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« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2009, 08:54:00 PM »

I am going to be a little bold and say something. I have asked a simple question, and waited for five days for an answer. I have even looked at the other threads that deal with this subject. It seems that the Orthodox have a problem with this because it is Western, and Catholic, nothing more. I am aware of the problems with Faustina, and her diary, and visions. I only wanted to discuss the Chaplet itself. What I have found on this, and other threads, is that no one will deal with just the Chaplet prayers. They will condemn Faustina, her diary, and her visions, but never explicitly say what the problems are with the Chaplet. Now that this is argumentative enough, will someone reply?

Perhaps no one is discussing it because for most of us (I'm guessing here but this is certainly the case with me) it is a non-issue. Quite simply: I am Orthodox (not Roman Catholic) and I have Orthodox devotions. I've no need to adopt or incorporate the devotions of other Christians REGARDLESS of how correct they may be. Why? Because Orthodoxy is right belief and right worship. It lacks nothing. If I were to adopt this devotion, then why not adopt dozens of other devotions that could possibly be shown to be theologically correct? Why not bring my bible to church and high-light it as my priest gives his homily the way good evangelicals do? Why not? Because it is not the Orthodox way; never has been and never will be. You say that your priest is fine with it. Well... evidently it must not be sitting well with you or you wouldn't be insisting upon an answer here. Do you want support so that you can lead others into adopting this Roman Catholic devotion? I don't understand your motivation here (and quite frankly, I don't understand the strong Roman Catholic influence on this entire forum which I had thought was an Orthodox forum). Ask your bishop and see what "he" has to say about this devotion. Ask him why we Orthodox do not need to incorporate it into our spiritual practices because I've never heard of any Orthodox saying the chaplet of divine mercy in the 18 years I've been Orthodox (and I've been a member of many Orthodox churches as well a member of three different jurisdictions due to our moving). It's a non-issue quite simply. We have our own beautiful and Orthodox devotional practices.

Very well said, in fact excellent.

It's a non-issue.

In addition to Thomas' excellent response No.: 2 above, here are my brief additions, given as a shallow attempt to hash PFN's anger against Orthodox, 'cause he simply disregarded the answers he didn't like.

-words of the prayer do have underlying Anselmian view (emphasize on passion, and the sacrifice offered to the Father) which is explicitly refused by St. Gregory of Nyssa some centuries before Anselm, is refused by Orthodoxy (and I may add is pretty odious to me)

-we don't recite any other Creed but Nicea-Constantinoplean one, particularly not the Creed named after the Apostoles and invented some centuries after them;

-several other stuff, but I guess the above is quite clear why no Orthodox would recite it.
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« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2009, 09:51:15 PM »

I would say the prayer:

"Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

Mimics the prayer said by the priest when offering the Holy Gifts:

"Thine own of thine own we offer unto thee on behalf of all and for all."

It is not the part of the people to utter this prayer but the priest.  To use a prayer so closely related gives the idea that the people have the power to offer apart from the priest and the Liturgy, which is opposed to Eastern liturgical theology.

Hmm, you know, I had not thought of this. I think your criticism is actually well founded!*

Perhaps a change of pronoun might make it a bit less objectionable?

"Eternal Father, I we offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."


or perhaps even better:

"Eternal Father, I offer You accept the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."


This would put it more in line with the Oratre Fratres in the Mass, which follows:

(priest) Pray, brethren,
that my sacrifice and yours
may be acceptable to God,
the almighty Father.

(response) May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands
for the praise and glory of his name,
for our good
and the good of all his holy Church.


Of course, it being a private devotion, even Catholics can pray it however they wish. It goes without saying that Orthodox can adapt it for their uses.


*(To EWTN's credit, their daily Chaplet of Divine Mercy is (or, at least, was, when I used to watch it a couple of years ago) always led by a priest in kneeling adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and in the presence of the sacred image of the Divine Mercy.)
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