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Author Topic: The British Orthodox Church and "the Celtic Orthodox Church"  (Read 13058 times) Average Rating: 0
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Seafra
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« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2010, 07:13:56 PM »

so is it like (coming from a protestant POV) baptist an methodist or baptist and mormon?

The sorts of things we (EO & OO) differ on are rather different than those churches.

BTW, many Protestants do not recognize Mormons as even legitimately Christian and thus obviously not Protestants.
that was my point... i didnt know if EOC considered  OOC as legitimate Christian or if it was similar to Baptists and methodists where there are minor disputes but they dont doubt each others walk in the faith.

Hmmmm.

That's a bit complicated of an answer really.

Unlike Protestants, but like Roman Catholics we view the Christian "walk of faith" as inextricably tied into membership in the one Church of Christ. So they would view each other as Christian in a manner that they wouldn't Mormons. However, they would also view each others faith communities as deficient because of not being part of the original communion of believers established by Christ, which they identify as themselves.
lol that is complicated its like a yesno answer hahaha
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« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2010, 07:22:39 PM »

so is it like (coming from a protestant POV) baptist an methodist or baptist and mormon?

The sorts of things we (EO & OO) differ on are rather different than those churches.

BTW, many Protestants do not recognize Mormons as even legitimately Christian and thus obviously not Protestants.
that was my point... i didnt know if EOC considered  OOC as legitimate Christian or if it was similar to Baptists and methodists where there are minor disputes but they dont doubt each others walk in the faith.

Hmmmm.

That's a bit complicated of an answer really.

Unlike Protestants, but like Roman Catholics we view the Christian "walk of faith" as inextricably tied into membership in the one Church of Christ. So they would view each other as Christian in a manner that they wouldn't Mormons. However, they would also view each others faith communities as deficient because of not being part of the original communion of believers established by Christ, which they identify as themselves.
lol that is complicated its like a yesno answer hahaha

To put it more simply, we tend to see various denominations as to greater and lesser degrees connected to the Apostolic faith, but only one communion of churches has the fullness of it.
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Seafra
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« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2010, 07:41:37 PM »

so is it like (coming from a protestant POV) baptist an methodist or baptist and mormon?

The sorts of things we (EO & OO) differ on are rather different than those churches.

BTW, many Protestants do not recognize Mormons as even legitimately Christian and thus obviously not Protestants.
that was my point... i didnt know if EOC considered  OOC as legitimate Christian or if it was similar to Baptists and methodists where there are minor disputes but they dont doubt each others walk in the faith.

Hmmmm.

That's a bit complicated of an answer really.

Unlike Protestants, but like Roman Catholics we view the Christian "walk of faith" as inextricably tied into membership in the one Church of Christ. So they would view each other as Christian in a manner that they wouldn't Mormons. However, they would also view each others faith communities as deficient because of not being part of the original communion of believers established by Christ, which they identify as themselves.
lol that is complicated its like a yesno answer hahaha

To put it more simply, we tend to see various denominations as to greater and lesser degrees connected to the Apostolic faith, but only one communion of churches has the fullness of it.
if im not mistaken protestants fit into that somewhere too correct? that was one of the first things that surprised me in the Orthodox church was that they recognized protestants as connected to the church although not part of the full church.
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« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2010, 10:39:59 PM »

so is it like (coming from a protestant POV) baptist an methodist or baptist and mormon?

The sorts of things we (EO & OO) differ on are rather different than those churches.

BTW, many Protestants do not recognize Mormons as even legitimately Christian and thus obviously not Protestants.
that was my point... i didnt know if EOC considered  OOC as legitimate Christian or if it was similar to Baptists and methodists where there are minor disputes but they dont doubt each others walk in the faith.

Hmmmm.

That's a bit complicated of an answer really.

Unlike Protestants, but like Roman Catholics we view the Christian "walk of faith" as inextricably tied into membership in the one Church of Christ. So they would view each other as Christian in a manner that they wouldn't Mormons. However, they would also view each others faith communities as deficient because of not being part of the original communion of believers established by Christ, which they identify as themselves.
lol that is complicated its like a yesno answer hahaha

To put it more simply, we tend to see various denominations as to greater and lesser degrees connected to the Apostolic faith, but only one communion of churches has the fullness of it.
if im not mistaken protestants fit into that somewhere too correct? that was one of the first things that surprised me in the Orthodox church was that they recognized protestants as connected to the church although not part of the full church.

I don't know that we would use the term "the full church". The Church is the Church. And one is either in it or not. The Church has the fullness of the truth. Other groups may be to greater or lesser degrees connected to the Church and have greater or less degrees of possession of the truth, yes, but they are not part of the Church.
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« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2010, 05:09:40 PM »

No. The EO are almost exclusively of one liturgical rite, that being the Byzantine rite. The OO, on the other hand, are of three main different rites, that being the Alexandrian (that of the Copts, Ethiopian, and Eritreans), the Antiochian (that of the Syriac and Indian) and the Armenian.

Is not Ethiopic usage sufficiently distinct for it to be called another rite?

Hmmmm.

It is sometimes considered distinct.

And sometimes it's not.

I have before heard the term "Alexandrian rite" rather than "Coptic rite" and "Ge'ez rite". On top of this, I have been told by some Copts that most, if not all, of the liturgies that are in the current Ethiopian repertoire were until recently also in the Coptic repertoire, however the Copts stopped using most of them as they did not keep sufficient records to know how to chant them anymore. If this is true then I think the logical conclusion would be that they are basically the same rite.

Lastly, the fact that the Ethiopian church was headed by a Coptic bishop for 1500+ years until the middle of the 20th century makes it hard for me to imagine how they could be historically all that different.

Yes, I'd say that both the Ethiopian and Coptic churches were similar probably since St. Athanasius' papacy.  St. Yared later on brought about a revolution in Ethiopian hymnology, with different musical styles very much in tune to the culture while keeping the liturgies more or less intact.  So we have same liturgies, different ways of expression.  I guess if you want to call that a different "rite" sure, but it's organized very similarly more or less.  So if I was to attend an Ethiopian Basilian liturgy, I should be able to fully recognize it with little problems.

God bless.
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« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2010, 08:57:25 PM »

No. The EO are almost exclusively of one liturgical rite, that being the Byzantine rite. The OO, on the other hand, are of three main different rites, that being the Alexandrian (that of the Copts, Ethiopian, and Eritreans), the Antiochian (that of the Syriac and Indian) and the Armenian.

Is not Ethiopic usage sufficiently distinct for it to be called another rite?

Hmmmm.

It is sometimes considered distinct.

And sometimes it's not.

I have before heard the term "Alexandrian rite" rather than "Coptic rite" and "Ge'ez rite". On top of this, I have been told by some Copts that most, if not all, of the liturgies that are in the current Ethiopian repertoire were until recently also in the Coptic repertoire, however the Copts stopped using most of them as they did not keep sufficient records to know how to chant them anymore. If this is true then I think the logical conclusion would be that they are basically the same rite.

Lastly, the fact that the Ethiopian church was headed by a Coptic bishop for 1500+ years until the middle of the 20th century makes it hard for me to imagine how they could be historically all that different.

Yes, I'd say that both the Ethiopian and Coptic churches were similar probably since St. Athanasius' papacy.  St. Yared later on brought about a revolution in Ethiopian hymnology, with different musical styles very much in tune to the culture while keeping the liturgies more or less intact.  So we have same liturgies, different ways of expression.  I guess if you want to call that a different "rite" sure, but it's organized very similarly more or less.  So if I was to attend an Ethiopian Basilian liturgy, I should be able to fully recognize it with little problems.

God bless.

Thanks, Mina!  Wink
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« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2010, 06:47:26 AM »

Something which speaks briefly of the relation between what is now the British Orthodox Church and the Celtic Orthodox Church - at one time sister Churches in the Glastonbury Union of Churches.

The author is Father John Ross (deceased.)

See

The Restoration of The Celtic Orthodox Church [Part 3]

and The Restoration of The Celtic Orthodox Church [Part 1]

Small bio of Fr John (who was once a priest of Mar Seraphim within the OCBI)
http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=26209
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Seafra
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« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2010, 06:37:32 AM »

It seems to me that pretty much churches mostly honor saints associated with that church, Russian saints to Russian churches etc. So i figured this wold be best place to ask this question although mostly off topic. I was curious why orthodoxy do not venerate Saint Comgall as a saint. ?He was around 500 AD so still pre-schism and a major influence in Irish Christianity.
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« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2010, 06:45:09 AM »

Potentially we do venerate him (check here) as a Saint but he is not very popular. Frankly it's the first time I've ever heard of him. The problem is that before the 11th century there wasn't good communication and it was difficult for the Orthodox in Syria to get to know about some Orthodox Saints from the British Isles. After the Schism had occurred we lost contact with  Western Christianity almost completely and there wasn't an opportunity to get to know them at all. Luckily since the early 20th century we are starting to get rid from our ignorance.
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Seafra
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« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2010, 06:55:43 AM »

Ooo Exciting haha i saw Wikipedia said only Anglican and Catholic and only Catholic sites talk about him so i defaulted to Wiki... He opened a monastery that for 300 years operated in 24/7 prayer and worship. ( I am currently a Intercessory Missionary at the international house of Prayer a 24/7 center of prayer and worship and I intend to open up houses of prayer but with more focus on orthodox teachings and stray from the protestant teachings) but he was an awesome guy and i Pray i would be as successful as he was!
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« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2010, 07:05:02 AM »


I was curious why orthodoxy do not venerate Saint Comgall as a saint. ?He was around 500 AD so still pre-schism and a major influence in Irish Christianity.

Commemorated by the Russian Orthodox Church but probably known only to converts, especially Irish converts

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints/message/3806

Here is his troparion.  It was composed in the 1970s by Archimandrite David of Glastonbury.     Fr David composed dozens of troparia for Irish and English Saints, at the request of Metropolitan Anthony Bloom of London (Moscow Patriarchate.)  Metropolitan Anthony approved their use thoughout the British Russian Diocese.  They are published in 12 monthly booklets.  Now they are used through the entire Russian Church (at least by those who have an interest in these Saints.)


10 May  ~  Troparion of St Comgall tone 4
O Comgall, Father of Monks, / thou didst train four thousand monastics./
Thou didst kindle Christ's fire in Bangor/ and thy cell was aglow in the
pagan darkness./ O friend of Saint Colum Cille,/ thou radiancy of
Ireland and Scotland; we praise God Who hath glorified thee.







Russian Church Institutes Feastday of All Saints of Britain and Ireland

(in English)  http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/politics/28.html?id_issue=11842406(in
(in Russian) http://www.interfax.ru/r/B/politics/2.html?id_issue=11842306


Moscow, August 21, 2007, Interfax - The Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church instituted a holiday to honour Christians who lived on the islands of Great Britain and Ireland and were canonized before the 1054 schism that divided Christendom into the Western Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.

The holiday will be an annual event observed on the third Sunday after Pentecost in the Julian Calendar...

All Saints of Britain and Ireland pray to God for us.

The rest of the article is in the url Irish Hermit has provided. Edited to be OK with the new board policy. mike
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 07:40:25 AM by mike » Logged
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« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2010, 08:16:28 AM »

Russian Church Institutes Feastday of All Saints of Britain and Ireland

(in English)  http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/politics/28.html?id_issue=11842406(in
(in Russian) http://www.interfax.ru/r/B/politics/2.html?id_issue=11842306


Moscow, August 21, 2007, Interfax - The Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church instituted a holiday to honour Christians who lived on the islands of Great Britain and Ireland and were canonized before the 1054 schism that divided Christendom into the Western Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.

The holiday will be an annual event observed on the third Sunday after Pentecost in the Julian Calendar...

All Saints of Britain and Ireland pray to God for us.

The rest of the article is in the url Irish Hermit has provided. Edited to be OK with the new board policy. mike

Unfortunately no longer available on the Interfax site and the article cannot appear on the Forum because of the new policy so please contact me off forum if you would like the article on the announcement by the Russian Church of the commemoration of the British and Irish Saints.
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« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2010, 08:26:59 AM »

Mike, could you please remove all the Interfax content in my last messages in this thread..   

Interfax forbids such republication or redistribution and I have violated their policy -although unwittingly and innocently.   

This express prohibition will have a deleterious impact on much of the news we find on the Forum since Interfax is very often the source of our news about events in the Orthodox world.  We will need to seek out the primary sources in Church statements and documents.

http://www.interfax.com/txt.asp?rbr=1

"News and other data on this site are provided for information purposes only, and are not intended for republication or redistribution. Republication or redistribution of Interfax content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Interfax."
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« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2010, 08:41:23 AM »



"News and other data on this site are provided for information purposes only, and are not intended for republication or redistribution. Republication or redistribution of Interfax content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Interfax."


Actually this indicates what you need to do. If we are asked about the content of your posts, we will refer them to you, as being the person responsible for obtaining the written permission needed to post these materials.

We have had a long standing tradition of not deleting posts or accounts here on OC.net (unless the poster in question is concerned about their personal safety). For us to delete sections of your post would be unfair to the multiple other requests we have had.

Once you have obtained this written permission, please post it as well as list the steps you needed to go through to obtain it as an instructional guide to others.


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