Author Topic: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence  (Read 2462 times)

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Offline t0m_dR

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The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« on: April 14, 2009, 11:03:03 AM »
This 30 minute video contains testimonies and evidence about the miracle of the
Holy Light in the tomb of Christ in Jerusalem. that does not burn. People
narrate their experiences and we see videos of the miracle.


http://oode.wordpress.com/2009/04/14/miracleofholylight/

Offline Dan-Romania

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2009, 11:12:59 AM »
Very good t0m_dR . Congratulations for the topic !
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Offline t0m_dR

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2009, 04:22:17 AM »
On behalf of the people that worked to make this, I thank you for your kind words.

If anyone wants to see it subtitled in his own language, he can send me a P.M. and I will send him the english subtitle file to translate.



Offline Fr. George

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 07:40:47 AM »
This 30 minute video contains testimonies and evidence about the miracle of the
Holy Light in the tomb of Christ in Jerusalem. that does not burn. People
narrate their experiences and we see videos of the miracle.


http://oode.wordpress.com/2009/04/14/miracleofholylight/

Nice video.  Thank you!
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Offline Dan-Romania

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2009, 04:54:06 AM »
I`ve got several questions about the Holy Light . How is the ceremony performed , and what does it symbolise the sacraments of the liturghy and why does the light come around 3 pm ?
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Offline mike

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2009, 04:55:51 AM »
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 05:02:26 AM by mike »

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2009, 06:15:51 PM »
I`ve got several questions about the Holy Light .
OK.

How is the ceremony performed ,
The tomb of Christ is examined by the Israeli  Police and checked for anything that may be used to start a fire, and then the entrance is sealed with ribbons and bees wax. At midday on Holy Saturday, the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem approaches wearing a white rasso. He is searched by the police and is vested (his vestments also searched. He is given a bundle of 33 candles, the seals on the tomb are broken and he enters the tomb to offer prescribed prayers while those outside repeat "Lord have mercy." He then emerges with the Holy Fire.

and what does it symbolise the sacraments of the liturghy 
The Holy Fire is lit by the Uncreated Light, and so, it doesn't really symbolize anything. I guess it represents the Light of Christ which triumps over the darkness of the world.

why does the light come around 3 pm ?
Because according to "Jerusalem Time" (the time measurement observed by the Church in Jerusalem), the day begins and ends at midday. The only other place I know of which observes Jerusalem Time is the Holy Monastery of Iveron on the Holy Mountain. Like Jerusalem, Iveron begins the Paschal Service at midday.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2009, 11:46:51 PM »
Has anyone on here seen the Holy Light themselves?

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2009, 11:52:25 PM »
Has anyone on here seen the Holy Light themselves?
I witnessed the miracle in 1986. I was asked to provide testimony for a website about the Holy Fire, and you will find my testimony here: http://www.holyfire.org/eng/svid_p_Grigory_A.htm
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Offline antiderivative

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2009, 11:59:57 PM »
Skeptics always bring up their white phosphorous "debunker" (which is rather silly), but finally last year a Russian physicist named Andrey Volkov went their to analyze it. Of course he was neither able to prove or disprove it, but here is an interesting article I found about his results:

http://www.spc.rs/eng/russian_physicist_first_register_electrical_discharges_during_descent_holy_fire

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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 12:52:39 AM »
Skeptics always bring up their white phosphorous "debunker" (which is rather silly), but finally last year a Russian physicist named Andrey Volkov went their to analyze it. Of course he was neither able to prove or disprove it, but here is an interesting article I found about his results:

http://www.spc.rs/eng/russian_physicist_first_register_electrical_discharges_during_descent_holy_fire



I think a mistake that many make is that the Miracle of the Holy Fire (or more correctly, 'the Holy Light") consists merely of the flames the Patriarch brings out of the tomb. If you watch the video linked to in the OP, you can see video footage of the other parts of the Miracle, the bluish "lightning" inside the Church, sphere's of flame passing through the crowds, lamps and candles spontaneously lighting etc.
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Offline Dan-Romania

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 04:04:50 AM »
I`ve got several questions about the Holy Light .
OK.

How is the ceremony performed ,
The tomb of Christ is examined by the Israeli  Police and checked for anything that may be used to start a fire, and then the entrance is sealed with ribbons and bees wax. At midday on Holy Saturday, the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem approaches wearing a white rasso. He is searched by the police and is vested (his vestments also searched. He is given a bundle of 33 candles, the seals on the tomb are broken and he enters the tomb to offer prescribed prayers while those outside repeat "Lord have mercy." He then emerges with the Holy Fire.

and what does it symbolise the sacraments of the liturghy 
The Holy Fire is lit by the Uncreated Light, and so, it doesn't really symbolize anything. I guess it represents the Light of Christ which triumps over the darkness of the world.

why does the light come around 3 pm ?
Because according to "Jerusalem Time" (the time measurement observed by the Church in Jerusalem), the day begins and ends at midday. The only other place I know of which observes Jerusalem Time is the Holy Monastery of Iveron on the Holy Mountain. Like Jerusalem, Iveron begins the Paschal Service at midday.

But Christ resurrected in the dawn of first day , no ? If we do the math , he died friday on 9 , the Tradition(from what i heard) says He stayed in Hell 33 hours , the number of years he had , and that`s relevant and 9+33 = 6 am (Sunday) exactly how the Scripture says . If He resurrected on Sunday , then why the Holy Light comes on saturday 3 pm . What is the sacrament , the explanation , the sense ? I`m very curious of the particular hour 3pm(around it) . I got a file on my computer wich speaks of Holy Light and  explains the meanings of the ceremony but just in little . It doesn`t speak about the 3 pm hour , and why does it come on that hour , who knows please assist .
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 07:23:18 AM »
I`ve got several questions about the Holy Light .
OK.

How is the ceremony performed ,
The tomb of Christ is examined by the Israeli  Police and checked for anything that may be used to start a fire, and then the entrance is sealed with ribbons and bees wax. At midday on Holy Saturday, the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem approaches wearing a white rasso. He is searched by the police and is vested (his vestments also searched. He is given a bundle of 33 candles, the seals on the tomb are broken and he enters the tomb to offer prescribed prayers while those outside repeat "Lord have mercy." He then emerges with the Holy Fire.

and what does it symbolise the sacraments of the liturghy 
The Holy Fire is lit by the Uncreated Light, and so, it doesn't really symbolize anything. I guess it represents the Light of Christ which triumps over the darkness of the world.

why does the light come around 3 pm ?
Because according to "Jerusalem Time" (the time measurement observed by the Church in Jerusalem), the day begins and ends at midday. The only other place I know of which observes Jerusalem Time is the Holy Monastery of Iveron on the Holy Mountain. Like Jerusalem, Iveron begins the Paschal Service at midday.

But Christ resurrected in the dawn of first day , no ? If we do the math , he died friday on 9 , the Tradition(from what i heard) says He stayed in Hell 33 hours , the number of years he had , and that`s relevant and 9+33 = 6 am (Sunday) exactly how the Scripture says . If He resurrected on Sunday , then why the Holy Light comes on saturday 3 pm . What is the sacrament , the explanation , the sense ? I`m very curious of the particular hour 3pm(around it) . I got a file on my computer wich speaks of Holy Light and  explains the meanings of the ceremony but just in little . It doesn`t speak about the 3 pm hour , and why does it come on that hour , who knows please assist .

Cristos a Inviat!

What makes you say He died at 9 PM?  The nineth hour is 3 PM on today's clock.

Btw, what is up with the icon as your avatar?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 07:25:29 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline Dan-Romania

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 10:11:22 AM »
Adevarat a inviat!
and it is "Hristos a inviat!"
So the nineth hour corespunds with 3 pm ? Then the 3rd hour corespunds with what ? It does not make much sense to me
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Offline NorthernPines

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 11:25:28 AM »
Adevarat a inviat!
and it is "Hristos a inviat!"
So the nineth hour corespunds with 3 pm ? Then the 3rd hour corespunds with what ? It does not make much sense to me


The way I understand it, is like 1st century Judaism did, we still keep time from sunrise to sunset. so the first hour is roughly 6am, the 3rd hour = 9am, the 6th hour= = 12noon, and the 9th hour = 3pm, and at sunset, roughly 6pm, is when the new day begins. That's why during Holy Week for example, on Thursday night, we're celebrating Holy Friday Matins, and the Matins for holy Saturday can be done on Friday evening...no one waits until 9pm to BEGIN these services, but usually 6pm. Of course these times are rough estimates and I'm sure different times of the year sunrise and sunset varies slightly even in Jerusalem, however considering its location on the planet I assume it's relatively stable and certainly doesn't fluctuate like in Canada and high lattitude locations.

Now I'm not sure I understand why the Holy Fire happens around mid afternoon on Saturday, and that would be interesting to hear an explanation as it's something I have wondered about too. As skeptical as a person as I am in a general sense, to me, there are just too many variables  and it's too well documented for this to be a hoax. And even though the Saturday afternoon time doesn't make sense to me, God can do anything He wants, and I'm sure there is some reason it occurs then, even if no one on earth can figure it out. However if there is some sort of logic behind it, I too would be interested to hear it.




Offline Orthodox11

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 11:29:43 AM »
In East Africa, it is still common to calculate time in this way.

Offline psalm110

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 05:24:33 AM »
Heres a youtube clip of the fireball bouncing through the crowd
http://youtu.be/KbQYNroAdL0

I must say there is a run/walk path between the entrance of the tomb to the exist of the Holy Sepulchre's door. Each year as soon as the light has come from the tomb those selected individuals run throw the path holding the candle up in the air to run outside to give the holy fire to everyone outside the church. It does look very convincing like a fireball bouncing on peoples heads but its not its someone running with the candle.

However, I do not doubt the holy fire as I remember seeing a video several years ago a nuns single candle lit up, the flame had jumped from someone elses candle onto hers.

Has anyone else seen or experienced the spontanous holy fire light a candle before your eyes at this event ?.

Offline Zenovia

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Re: The Miracle of the Holy Light: Testimonies and evidence
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 04:07:53 PM »
We have to look at the Holy Fire from a Godly point of view.  How could a loving God, not conform to humanity's sense of understanding when presenting a miracle reaffirming the Resurrection of Christ?  Something we know that is sorely needed today, when even Christians doubt that Christ rose from the dead.  Of course God would have the miracle occur at the time commonly accepted in Jerusalem.  He would also have the miracle occur under the Bishop that is the actual successor of the Apostles of Jerusalem.  To do otherwise, and to have it appear under a bishop of another Church such as the RCC and the Armenian, would mean our God is a God of confusion and dissent. 

Should something like that ever occur,  imagine how confusing and harmful it would be to the faith of the people living in the Holyland?  By the same token, should a miracle occur in an Orthodox church in a nation that is predominantly of another Christian faith, it would be just as confusing and harmful, so to say that the miracle is an affirmation that the Orthodox Church is the true Church, rather than an affirmation of Christ's Resurrection, I personally find rather foolish.   :(