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Irish Hermit
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« on: April 12, 2009, 04:52:08 PM » |
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From Interfax: Moscow Patriarchate disagrees with Constantinople desire to play special role in OrthodoxyMOSCOW (April 10) — Bishop Hilarion of Volokolamsk, the head of the Moscow Patriarchate’s external church relations department, has criticized the Constantinople Patriarchate’s intention to control all church communities within the Orthodox diaspora. “I see the situation in the inter-Orthodox relations surrounding the Constantinople Patriarchate’s claim to have some special role in the Orthodox Church as one of the key challenges today,” Bishop Hilarion said at a press conference at the Interfax main office in Moscow on Friday. “What is happening is in fact an attempt to impose a model existing in the Catholic Church on the Orthodox Church to have as centralized church power as possible, with one bishop leading it as the head of the Ecumenical Church,” he said. “There has never been such a model in the Orthodox tradition,” Bishop Hilarion said. He doubted that “we are entitled to revise our teaching about the Church.” The leading hierarchs of the Constantinople Patriarchate are calling for revising the principle of primacy in the Orthodox world, Bishop Hilarion said. This model presumes that the Constantinople Patriarchate “should administer all the churches within the so-called diaspora,” that is, that all the communities outside the borders of the historical canonic national churches should be within Constantinople’s jurisdiction, he said. Bishop Hilarion said this issue will be discussed at an inter-Orthodox conference in June. |
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AMM
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2009, 05:29:58 PM » |
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I would imagine he rejects the Third Rome theory as well then.
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 05:37:55 PM » |
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I would imagine he rejects the Third Rome theory as well then.
I would imagine so. Under the deceased Patriarch Alexey the Third Rome theory was treated as an object of banter. I imagine that Patriarch Kirill would have the same mildly amused attitude. Of course, there IS the matter of <trumpets> The White Cowl which Constantine gave to Pope Sylvester as a sign of his global ecclesiastical authority. It was then given to Constantinople and then Patriarch Jeremias sent it to Russia at the time of the Islamic threat, symbolically entrusting the global primacy to the Russian Church. Yes, we must not forget <trumpets> The White Cowl! |
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ialmisry
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 06:21:12 PM » |
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I would imagine he rejects the Third Rome theory as well then.
Why? The Third Rome has fallen, but she is getting up. From Interfax: Moscow Patriarchate disagrees with Constantinople desire to play special role in OrthodoxyMOSCOW (April 10) — Bishop Hilarion of Volokolamsk, the head of the Moscow Patriarchate’s external church relations department, has criticized the Constantinople Patriarchate’s intention to control all church communities within the Orthodox diaspora. “I see the situation in the inter-Orthodox relations surrounding the Constantinople Patriarchate’s claim to have some special role in the Orthodox Church as one of the key challenges today,” Bishop Hilarion said at a press conference at the Interfax main office in Moscow on Friday. “What is happening is in fact an attempt to impose a model existing in the Catholic Church on the Orthodox Church to have as centralized church power as possible, with one bishop leading it as the head of the Ecumenical Church,” he said. “There has never been such a model in the Orthodox tradition,” Bishop Hilarion said. He doubted that “we are entitled to revise our teaching about the Church.” The leading hierarchs of the Constantinople Patriarchate are calling for revising the principle of primacy in the Orthodox world, Bishop Hilarion said. This model presumes that the Constantinople Patriarchate “should administer all the churches within the so-called diaspora,” that is, that all the communities outside the borders of the historical canonic national churches should be within Constantinople’s jurisdiction, he said. Bishop Hilarion said this issue will be discussed at an inter-Orthodox conference in June. It would seem the Met. Jonah are Patriarch Kyrill are one on these matters. |
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« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 06:22:29 PM by ialmisry »
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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GiC
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2009, 08:09:26 PM » |
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I would imagine he rejects the Third Rome theory as well then.
Why? The Third Rome has fallen, but she is getting up. Don't worry, unless they come around to our way of thinking the west will knock them on their butts again. |
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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Heorhij
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2009, 08:16:09 PM » |
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"Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain?"
Idiots...
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Love never fails.
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AMM
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2009, 08:27:23 PM » |
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Why? Any "Rome" theory posits a place of special preeminence across the church as a whole. |
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« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 08:27:41 PM by AMM »
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2009, 08:33:16 PM » |
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"Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain?"
Well, if (God forbid) someone *is* conspiring to be El Supremo Episcopo in Orthodoxy we hope that the plot will be dealt with at the upcoming pan-Orthodox Synods. |
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Fr. George
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2009, 08:38:35 PM » |
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I fail to see how "EP claims 'diaspora' as canonical territory" = "Head Bishop for Global Church." I think this one should get filed under "Primacy" /= "Universal Primacy."
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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Heorhij
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2009, 08:45:56 PM » |
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"Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain?"
Well, if (God forbid) someone *is* conspiring to be El Supremo Episcopo in Orthodoxy we hope that the plot will be dealt with at the upcoming pan-Orthodox Synods. The nations (humans) are ALWAYS conspiring, that's our nature, our "paleon anthropon" (Eph. 4:22), something in us that requires a fight to death for supremacy, canonicity, territories, "Third Rome," "the only True Orthodoxy," whatever... |
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Love never fails.
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2009, 08:48:44 PM » |
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I fail to see how "EP claims 'diaspora' as canonical territory" = "Head Bishop for Global Church." I think this one should get filed under "Primacy" /= "Universal Primacy."
While the diaspora is important it is not the main thrust of the Moscow statement. The focus of the statement is much more broad and focuses on "an attempt to impose a model [..of] centralized church power as possible, with one bishop leading it as the head of the Ecumenical Church."The focus of the statment and the title of this thread match up. |
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« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 08:52:38 PM by Irish Hermit »
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serb1389
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2009, 09:26:16 PM » |
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I wonder what Met. Hilarion would say IS the right way to approach the "so called" diaspora.
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I got nothing. I forgot the maps March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that |
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2009, 09:47:59 PM » |
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I wonder what Met. Hilarion would say IS the right way to approach the "so called" diaspora.
If we look at the track record of Moscow's dealings with its American diaspora, the picture is very encouraging. It gave autocephaly to the OCA. It gave self-governing status to the Russian Church Abroad. In both cases it has treated its "children" wisely and with acknowledgement of their maturity. By way of contrast Constantinople and Damascus have really messed around with their American children. They impose Constitutions and then they act in contradiction to them or they revoke them. They grant one status to the bishops one week and then next year they alter their status. There is not much stability. All in all, the available data suggests that Moscow would create a better solution for the diaspora than either Constantinople or Damascus. |
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2009, 09:52:51 PM » |
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If we look at the track record of Moscow's dealings with its American diaspora, the picture is very encouraging.
It gave autocephaly to the OCA. It gave self-governing status to the Russian Church Abroad.
In both cases it has treated its "children" wisely and with acknowledgement of their maturity.
Looking at the OCA's track record since 1970, though, I'd say that Moscow giving the OCA autocephaly when she did was foolishly premature. The OCA showed quite clearly that she was not mature enough to be left to rule her own affairs. |
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buzu
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2009, 10:08:54 PM » |
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I agree with you Hermit. Russia has even granted autonomy to the churches of Japan and China, the latter has seen Constantinople trying to usurp this ancient church by placing his puppet the metropolitan of Hong Kong.
Outside of the typical jurisdictional mess in america, theres another mini juridictional mess amongst the ever- growing number of random jurisdictions of america held by the EP. These parishes have their own bishop and are a completely different set of heirarchs not related to the GOA synod in anyway.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2009, 10:24:51 PM » |
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2009, 10:25:21 PM » |
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buzu, are you buzuxi?
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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buzu
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2009, 10:27:03 PM » |
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yep
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2009, 10:37:05 PM » |
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Buzu, I fished out your response to my question from the recycling bin and have locked this topic so you can't alter your response.
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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