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Author Topic: Matthew 12:40  (Read 1461 times) Average Rating: 0
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Rosehip
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« on: April 10, 2009, 05:43:32 PM »

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For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. St. Matthew 12:40

If Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday, he would have only been in the grave two nights technically. What is the correct understanding of this verse then?

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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 05:54:13 PM »

The new day friday starts thursday evening...sundown to sundown
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2009, 05:57:10 PM »

He went into the belly of Hades (the heart of the earth), its dark there.
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Fr. George
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2009, 06:18:25 PM »

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For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. St. Matthew 12:40

If Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday, he would have only been in the grave two nights technically. What is the correct understanding of this verse then?

The counting of days includes partial days; so dying on Friday afternoon meant one day and night on Friday; being in the grave Saturday is one day and night; and rising on Sunday is one day and night.
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2009, 06:23:43 PM »

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For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. St. Matthew 12:40

If Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday, he would have only been in the grave two nights technically. What is the correct understanding of this verse then?

The counting of days includes partial days; so dying on Friday afternoon meant one day and night on Friday; being in the grave Saturday is one day and night; and rising on Sunday is one day and night.
IOW, we need to think of these days not in the precise, astronomical sense we attach to them, but according to the Jewish definition of the day that prevailed in the time and place of Christ.
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2009, 06:45:14 PM »

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For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. St. Matthew 12:40

If Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday, he would have only been in the grave two nights technically. What is the correct understanding of this verse then?

The counting of days includes partial days; so dying on Friday afternoon meant one day and night on Friday; being in the grave Saturday is one day and night; and rising on Sunday is one day and night.
IOW, we need to think of these days not in the precise, astronomical sense we attach to them, but according to the Jewish definition of the day that prevailed in the time and place of Christ.

Exactly.
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2009, 06:46:53 PM »

Thanks!
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2009, 07:29:03 PM »

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For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. St. Matthew 12:40

If Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday, he would have only been in the grave two nights technically. What is the correct understanding of this verse then?

The counting of days includes partial days; so dying on Friday afternoon meant one day and night on Friday; being in the grave Saturday is one day and night; and rising on Sunday is one day and night.
IOW, we need to think of these days not in the precise, astronomical sense we attach to them, but according to the Jewish definition of the day that prevailed in the time and place of Christ.

Thanks to you both, Cleveland and PtA,

Are either of you able to point to an actual source that explains the Jewish definition of the day at that time? This is a question that many people ask and though I understand that what you say is correct, I don't recall seeing a reference that confirms it as a historical fact. It would be handly to have.
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2009, 07:48:33 PM »

In a more allegorical sense, Christ incorrupt body spent 3 days in the tomb (only on the sabbath did he spend a full 24 hour period since it is the day of rest) and his soul spent 3 nights in the heart of the earth preaching in hades(Eph 4.9 & Acts 2.31).

"For three days he dwelt in the place where the dead were, as the prophets said concerning him.... And he descended to them to rescue and save them. The Lord himself said , "As Jonah remained 3 days and three nights in the whales belly, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth." -St Irenaeus

'Meanwhile Hades was resplendant with light. For the star had descended to there. Actually the Lord did not descend into Hades in his body, but in his spirit....For while He raised the dead by His body, by His Spirit He was liberating souls." Alexander of Alexandria
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2009, 09:21:19 PM »

I have heard it said though, that Jesus did not,after all, die on Friday, but on Wednesday, that the Passover began on Tuesday evening and Jesus was crucified on Wednesday-and that our modern-day reckonings of the order of Holy Week is all based on erroneous misunderstandings of the order of Passover. Have you heard this before? How to respond?
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2009, 12:58:18 AM »

I have heard it said though, that Jesus did not,after all, die on Friday, but on Wednesday, that the Passover began on Tuesday evening and Jesus was crucified on Wednesday-and that our modern-day reckonings of the order of Holy Week is all based on erroneous misunderstandings of the order of Passover. Have you heard this before? How to respond?
Yes, I've read this before.  I believe it was in a pamphlet published by the Worldwide Church of God, a one-time cult known as the Armstrongians who recently repudiated a few of their heresies enough to be integrated into the evangelical mainstream, if still a little bit on the fringe.  They may reject this, being as it is from our Tradition, but the first thing that comes to mind is that our Tradition has preserved the belief that Jesus was crucified on a Friday.  As far as historical evidence, I don't have any documents available for quick reference.
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« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2009, 07:32:30 AM »

Yes, I've read this before.  I believe it was in a pamphlet published by the Worldwide Church of God, a one-time cult known as the Armstrongians who recently repudiated a few of their heresies enough to be integrated into the evangelical mainstream, if still a little bit on the fringe.  They may reject this, being as it is from our Tradition, but the first thing that comes to mind is that our Tradition has preserved the belief that Jesus was crucified on a Friday.  As far as historical evidence, I don't have any documents available for quick reference.

There are some expositions on fasting by early Church (1,800 or so years ago, i.e. only a century or two after Christ) fathers that remind us that fasting on Friday is due to the Crucifixion being on that day, with Wednesday being the day that Judas received his silver to betray Him.
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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2009, 11:38:36 AM »

Answered a similar question recently here:
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Anqo75b.8YRAqCV6H4.iMaPg5gt.;_ylv=3?qid=20090410081612AA61Eu7&show=7#profile-info-Sx6vlEUbaa
(Will let you guess which one is me Wink)

Hope that helps mate.
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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2009, 12:56:44 PM »

Thanks, Didymus. I found and read your post to the question. You answered well. I'm still not really sure about it all though. Something still doesn't completely add up.
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2009, 03:00:22 PM »

Thanks, Didymus. I found and read your post to the question. You answered well. I'm still not really sure about it all though. Something still doesn't completely add up.
What is it that doesn't add up?
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« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2009, 09:01:13 PM »

Here is the explanation I got from Fr. Athanasius Iskander:

Some early fathers considered the three hour darkness as one night. They
base this view on Zech 14:7-9
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor
night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from
Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward
the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD
shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD,
and his name one.
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« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2009, 09:27:10 AM »

Regarding the day beginning at sundown, here is an explanation from the book Settings Of Silver: An Introduction to Judaism, by Stephen M. Wylen, which I found at Google Books:

"In a solar calendar the new day begins at the morning, with the appearance of the sun. Midnight, the start of the day in the Gregorian calendar, is the earliest moment in the morning. In a lunar calendar the new day begins in the evening. The Jewish day begins at sunset, defined as that time when at least three stars can be seen with one glance at the sky. A Jewish day goes from one sunset to the next. So, for instance, the Sabbath  begins at sundown on Friday and ends at sundown on Saturday. In the Jewish calendar Saturday night is the beginning of the first day of the next week."

Regarding the 3 days part, the term that might help in locating an explanation is "inclusive reckoning". If you do a Google search for that term, you'll get lots of pages to look at.
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