OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 23, 2014, 03:21:47 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 4 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Whose Orthodoxy, Anyway?  (Read 15224 times) Average Rating: 5
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« on: April 02, 2009, 11:45:39 AM »

The Church can not, and will never be divided, what people call divisions is actually the formation of false "churches" created by individuals who separate from God, change the faith, preach their own gospel, occupy key positions, and gain political power and control. This very same thing happened with the pharisees, forefathers of today's so called "jews", Nestorians, Roman Catholics, Coptics, and today's new false churches like the Moscow Patriarchate, one of the most dreadful and pernicious false churches in the world, founded by the revolutionaries, to disseminate their antichristian liberal ideology, and enslave people to the illegal and unorthodox revolutionary political world, where the Truth is replaced by falsehood, and the Christian Life, by a wordly life.

Today's so called divisions, were caused by the revolutionary states, who created their puppet false churches, and try by all means to wipe the Church of Christ from the face of the earth, even by the use of violence, as it is evident in today's actions of Patriach Bartholomew I, who is viciously attacking the True Orthodox Monastery of Esphigmenou in Mount Athos www.esphigmenou.com by proxi, using the revolutionary Greek State, simply because they refuse to accept the patriarch's new gospel.

Why is there so much hatred and hostility from the revolutionary patriarchates towards the True Orthodox Church, and such a warmth and closeness with jews, catholics, coptics, moslems and other religious institutions? Because their attacks are directed towards the Church of Christ, and those who rightfully preach the Truth, and lead a Christian Life.

I know you disagree with their positions and theology and history... But, just as we would ask people to courteously refer to your Church, we ask you to use the proper titles of the hierarchs and Patriarchates of our Church - it is actually the Patriarchate of Moscow and all Russia, not the "so-called"... and he is Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople, not the "so-called."  I find it ironic in a thread about divisiveness' source that you would use such language.  Please be more respectful in the future.

-Cleveland, Global Moderator
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 10:24:53 PM by cleveland » Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,435


EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 03:50:14 PM »

But I think it should be obvious to anyone with an Orthodox mindset who is on the side of truth and Orthodoxy in both cases.
Then how come it ain't so obvious?
It's obvious for those who are zealous for Orthodoxy. To the lukewarm it is of course mere foolishness to jeopardize your material comfort for the sake of truth.
Zeal for Orthodoxy, or for your limited definition of Orthodoxy?
I don't presume to 'define' Orthodoxy. I'm saying you can't shirk the responsibility for defending the faith by saying it's up to the Latinophron Patriarch, or his lackeys in the commemorating monasteries, to decide what is or is not Orthodox.
But by this very statement you have declared your definition of Orthodoxy.  You have declared also by calling His All Holiness a "Latinophron" and the monks who commemorate him his "lackeys"--not very kind terms, I might add--that the Patriarch and his commemorators do not match your definition of Orthodox.

You have to know for yourself what is Orthodox.
Yes, but how do you or I know that our view of Orthodoxy is complete?  As it stands, I would venture to say that many of us here don't agree with the EP's definition of Orthodoxy, yet we still commemorate His All Holiness as Orthodox because we don't agree with you that he has fallen into heresy and schism.

Therefore you have to ask yourself, 'Is Patriarch Bartholomew upholding the Orthodox Faith, as his position requires him to do, or is he betraying it?' The appropriate attitude to the current situation depends on your answer.
No, the appropriate question to ask is, "What is Orthodoxy, and do we know our faith completely enough to condemn a canonical Orthodox bishop for heresy?"

You would still need to do this even if there hadn't been the 1971 agreement that every monastery is free to commemorate or not to commemorate. In addition to betraying the Faith by commemorating a heretical Patriarch, the anti-Zealot monks have even gone back on their own agreement.
First, you have to prove that His All Holiness is a heretic.  Second, how have the anti-Zealot, legally recognized monks reneged on their own agreement?
Logged
Jonathan Gress
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA
Posts: 3,011


« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 07:39:34 PM »

But I think it should be obvious to anyone with an Orthodox mindset who is on the side of truth and Orthodoxy in both cases.
Then how come it ain't so obvious?
It's obvious for those who are zealous for Orthodoxy. To the lukewarm it is of course mere foolishness to jeopardize your material comfort for the sake of truth.
Zeal for Orthodoxy, or for your limited definition of Orthodoxy?
I don't presume to 'define' Orthodoxy. I'm saying you can't shirk the responsibility for defending the faith by saying it's up to the Latinophron Patriarch, or his lackeys in the commemorating monasteries, to decide what is or is not Orthodox.
But by this very statement you have declared your definition of Orthodoxy.  You have declared also by calling His All Holiness a "Latinophron" and the monks who commemorate him his "lackeys"--not very kind terms, I might add--that the Patriarch and his commemorators do not match your definition of Orthodox.

You have to know for yourself what is Orthodox.
Yes, but how do you or I know that our view of Orthodoxy is complete?  As it stands, I would venture to say that many of us here don't agree with the EP's definition of Orthodoxy, yet we still commemorate His All Holiness as Orthodox because we don't agree with you that he has fallen into heresy and schism.

Therefore you have to ask yourself, 'Is Patriarch Bartholomew upholding the Orthodox Faith, as his position requires him to do, or is he betraying it?' The appropriate attitude to the current situation depends on your answer.
No, the appropriate question to ask is, "What is Orthodoxy, and do we know our faith completely enough to condemn a canonical Orthodox bishop for heresy?"

You would still need to do this even if there hadn't been the 1971 agreement that every monastery is free to commemorate or not to commemorate. In addition to betraying the Faith by commemorating a heretical Patriarch, the anti-Zealot monks have even gone back on their own agreement.
First, you have to prove that His All Holiness is a heretic.  Second, how have the anti-Zealot, legally recognized monks reneged on their own agreement?
The very fact that he follows the New Calendar makes him a schismatic, since he falls under all the anathemas against the Papal calendar (which covered _both_ the Paschalion _and_ the Menologion, to anticipate a common but foolish objection). The very fact that he is a member of the World Council of Churches, membership of which requires acknowledgment of heretical bodies as parts of the Church, makes him a heretic. This is in addition to all the well-known heretical statements he's made claiming that such bodies are part of the Church. In each case, he condones the particular heresy (be it Papism, Protestantism etc) and therefore falls under the anathemas against them.
I agree that my terms are harsh. But as Sir Thomas More said in "A Man for all Seasons" of the word "heresy": "It's not a likable word. It's not a likable thing."
Logged
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,144


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2009, 07:46:07 PM »

Quote
since he falls under all the anathemas against the Papal calendar (which covered _both_ the Paschalion _and_ the Menologion, to anticipate a common but foolish objection).


Jonathan, this is a dishonest and disingenuous statement. With the exception of the Orthodox Church of Finland, all New Calendar Orthodox Churches follow the same Paschalion as the Orthodox Churches which follow the Julian calendar. Spare us the polemics, please.  police
Logged
AMM
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 2,076


« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 07:49:10 PM »

Quote
With the exception of the Orthodox Church of Finland, all New Calendar Orthodox Churches follow the same Paschalion as the Orthodox Churches which follow the Julian calendar.

Oh they're heretics anyway, let's not split hairs..

H-E-R-E-T-I-C-S
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 07:49:56 PM by AMM » Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 08:13:43 PM »

True Orthodox Monastery of Esphigmenou in Mount Athos www.esphigmenou.com
They're schismatics. The True Orthodox Monastery is this one: www.esphigmenou.gr .
But you are right, the Church is not divided. Anyone who goes in to schism is outside of the Church.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 08:15:45 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,435


EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 08:23:55 PM »

First, you have to prove that His All Holiness is a heretic.  Second, how have the anti-Zealot, legally recognized monks reneged on their own agreement?
The very fact that he follows the New Calendar makes him a schismatic, since he falls under all the anathemas against the Papal calendar (which covered _both_ the Paschalion _and_ the Menologion, to anticipate a common but foolish objection).
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,3885.msg187366.html#msg187366

The very fact that he is a member of the World Council of Churches, membership of which requires acknowledgment of heretical bodies as parts of the Church, makes him a heretic.
I think maybe you need to read up more on the WCC to clarify and correct your understanding of the organization.  To my knowledge, the WCC never required any formal assent to the idea that her member denominations are all parts of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.  If such membership merely appears to imply this to you, then you had better be very careful not to judge His All Holiness based solely on appearances.

This is in addition to all the well-known heretical statements he's made claiming that such bodies are part of the Church.
Such as...

In each case, he condones the particular heresy (be it Papism, Protestantism etc) and therefore falls under the anathemas against them.
Has His All Holiness really spoken such heresies?  If so, how?  Similarly, how is what he has spoken vis-à-vis other worshiping bodies of non-Orthodox Christians heretical?

I agree that my terms are harsh. But as Sir Thomas More said in "A Man for all Seasons" of the word "heresy": "It's not a likable word. It's not a likable thing."
No, it's not, which is why you should be much more careful about who you condemn as a heretic.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 08:35:06 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
AMM
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 2,076


« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009, 08:43:03 PM »

I hate to be a pain in the kazoo, but there is one valid jurisdiction in this country and its mine.  Everyone else is in a false church.  I know that's bad news and all, but there it is.  Sorry.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009, 08:45:23 PM »

I hate to be a pain in the kazoo, but there is one valid jurisdiction in this country and its mine.  Everyone else is in a false church.  I know that's bad news and all, but there it is.  Sorry.

In which country?
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 08:47:58 PM »

Pravoslav09

What is RZC?

Thanks.
Logged
AMM
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 2,076


« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 08:48:44 PM »

In which country?

BarbianLand.  Wink
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 08:49:52 PM »

BarbianLand.  Wink

ROFLMAO! Cheesy
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,435


EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 08:51:53 PM »

What is RZC?
Well, there are the Religious Zionists of Chicago.  http://www.rzc.us/

Or the Rochester Zen Center:  http://rzc.org/

 Grin
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 08:55:47 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 08:52:51 PM »

Quote
since he falls under all the anathemas against the Papal calendar (which covered _both_ the Paschalion _and_ the Menologion, to anticipate a common but foolish objection).


Jonathan, this is a dishonest and disingenuous statement. With the exception of the Orthodox Church of Finland, all New Calendar Orthodox Churches follow the same Paschalion as the Orthodox Churches which follow the Julian calendar. Spare us the polemics, please.  police

I think you may have missed his point. Some claim that the Sigillion does not cover the Menaion. He was anticipating this by saying it did not just cover the Paschalion.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 09:04:27 PM by Fr. Anastasios » Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,492


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 09:16:18 PM »

The Church can not, and will never be divided, what people call divisions is actually the formation of false "churches" created by individuals who separate from God, change the faith, preach their own gospel, occupy key positions, and gain political power and control. This very same thing happened with the pharisees, forefathers of today's so called "jews", Nestorians, Roman Catholics, Coptics, and today's new false churches like the Moscow Patriarchate, one of the most dreadful and pernicious false churches in the world, founded by the revolutionaries, to disseminate their antichristian liberal ideology, and enslave people to the illegal and unorthodox revolutionary political world, where the Truth is replaced by falsehood, and the Christian Life, by a wordly life.

Today's so called divisions, were caused by the revolutionary states, who created their puppet false churches, and try by all means to wipe the Church of Christ from the face of the earth, even by the use of violence, as it is evident in today's actions of Patriach Bartholomew I, who is viciously attacking the True Orthodox Monastery of Esphigmenou in Mount Athos www.esphigmenou.com by proxi, using the revolutionary Greek State, simply because they refuse to accept the patriarch's new gospel.

Why is there so much hatred and hostility from the revolutionary patriarchates towards the True Orthodox Church, and such a warmth and closeness with jews, catholics, coptics, moslems and other religious institutions? Because their attacks are directed towards the Church of Christ, and those who rightfully preach the Truth, and lead a Christian Life.

I know you disagree with their positions and theology and history... But, just as we would ask people to courteously refer to your Church, we ask you to use the proper titles of the hierarchs and Patriarchates of our Church - it is actually the Patriarchate of Moscow and all Russia, not the "so-called"... and he is Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople, not the "so-called."  I find it ironic in a thread about divisiveness' source that you would use such language.  Please be more respectful in the future.

-Cleveland, Global Moderator


Wow... I think you have hit the Internet Trifecta.  Not easy to do. Sometimes getting a grade of F takes as much work as getting an A. 
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2009, 09:25:21 PM »

Dear Cleveland Moderator,

As a christian, I should conduct myself with love and uttermost respect towards every single man, for all are precious in the eyes of our Creator, however I should be always be guided by the Paraclete, Spirit of Truth, and reject all sort of falsehood. Just as we can not, in any wise, call the self proclaimed "Roman Catholic Church" the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, I can not, in any wise, call the false "moscow patriarchate" and the false "ecumenical patriach" by the titles they uncanonically (illegally) usurp.

Please be kind enough to suggest a solution to this dilema, How can I show respect, without compromising my faith by giving recognition, endoresement and approval to those who use the name of the God in vain?

I am bound by the Law of God, to respect everyone, but I am also bound to never repeat falsehood.

It was very disrespectful to edit my message, that arbitrary act violates my freedom of speech, so please show the same respect by respecting my freedom of speech. Thank you and may God save you.


Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 09:34:03 PM »

Please be kind enough to suggest a solution to this dilema, How can I show respect, without compromising my faith by giving recognition, endoresement and approval to those who use the name of the God in vain?
Do as I do. My Faith requires that I consider all those who have schismed from the Church to be outside of the Church, however, not once have I called their Bishops "so called Bishops" or their Priests "so-called Priests". I have made it clear that, even on my deathbed, I would not accept Communion from Fr. Anastasios because I hold his Church to be in schism:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19856.msg294952.html#msg294952
Yet I still refer to him as "Father Anastasios".
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2009, 09:38:38 PM »

Dear Irish Hermit,

RZC means "Russian Zarist Church" it's one of the terms used for the pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church, which survives despite the tremendous persecution which still goes on nowdays.
Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
Salpy
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,321


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2009, 09:40:52 PM »

Well goodness gracious, P9, welcome to the forum.  Please tell us about your group.  I never heard of it before.  Who is your patriarch?
Logged

"They mean it as a mark of shame, we must then wear it as a mark of hope..."
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/07/nun-sign-of-genocide.html
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2009, 09:41:06 PM »

Dear Cleveland Moderator,

As a christian, I should conduct myself with love and uttermost respect towards every single man, for all are precious in the eyes of our Creator, however I should be always be guided by the Paraclete, Spirit of Truth, and reject all sort of falsehood. Just as we can not, in any wise, call the self proclaimed "Roman Catholic Church" the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, I can not, in any wise, call the false "moscow patriarchate" and the false "ecumenical patriach" by the titles they uncanonically (illegally) usurp.

Please be kind enough to suggest a solution to this dilema, How can I show respect, without compromising my faith by giving recognition, endoresement and approval to those who use the name of the God in vain?

I am bound by the Law of God, to respect everyone, but I am also bound to never repeat falsehood.

It was very disrespectful to edit my message, that arbitrary act violates my freedom of speech, so please show the same respect by respecting my freedom of speech. Thank you and may God save you.




Referring to a person by the title he uses does not necessarily endorse the person. So if I refer to Patriarch Bartholemew as Patriarch that does not mean I accept that he is actually Orthodox (since I am an Old Calendarist).  All the documents I have read from our Church and bishops have always referred to New Calendarist clergy by their title. It's just the proper and civilized thing to do.  Throughout history, Orthodox on diplomatic missions have done this with no problem.

As far as freedom of speech, you don't have freedom of speech on a forum. This is a privately-owned site.  Posts that violate the rules can be edited at the moderator's discretion.
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2009, 09:44:08 PM »

Please be kind enough to suggest a solution to this dilema, How can I show respect, without compromising my faith by giving recognition, endoresement and approval to those who use the name of the God in vain?
Do as I do. My Faith requires that I consider all those who have schismed from the Church to be outside of the Church, however, not once have I called their Bishops "so called Bishops" or their Priests "so-called Priests". I have made it clear that, even on my deathbed, I would not accept Communion from Fr. Anastasios because I hold his Church to be in schism:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19856.msg294952.html#msg294952
Yet I still refer to him as "Father Anastasios".

Why are you bringing me in to this? Am I your "token" Old Calendarist?  Cool
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2009, 09:56:15 PM »


Referring to a person by the title he uses does not necessarily endorse the person. So if I refer to Patriarch Bartholemew as Patriarch that does not mean I accept that he is actually Orthodox (since I am an Old Calendarist).  All the documents I have read from our Church and bishops have always referred to New Calendarist clergy by their title. It's just the proper and civilized thing to do.  Throughout history, Orthodox on diplomatic missions have done this with no problem.

Sounds sensible to me, Thank you Father.

As far as freedom of speech, you don't have freedom of speech on a forum. This is a privately-owned site.  Posts that violate the rules can be edited at the moderator's discretion.
[/quote]

If there is a need for that, it should be clearly stated the moderator had edited that message at his discretion, otherwise it would be like putting words in other person's mouth, or slandering.

It's good to see you are a True Orthodox Christian Priest, under the canonical Ab Chrisostomos II (Kiousis) of Athens and all Greece. Ortodoksia i tanatos! Ecumenism kai sergianism Anathema! x3

Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2009, 10:01:31 PM »

When the moderator wrote in green inside your post, that was to signify that he was editing it per the rules. But I agree that it would be better for any edited parts to be clearly marked. We will take this under advisement.
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,903


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2009, 10:15:04 PM »

Since Fr. Anastasios and Ozgeorge have addressed most of your points, I'll just cite this one:

If there is a need for that, it should be clearly stated the moderator had edited that message at his discretion, otherwise it would be like putting words in other person's mouth, or slandering.

As Fr. Anastasios alluded, whenever a moderator posts in green, s/he is acting in an official capacity and, thus, has the responsibility to correct violations of forum policy and decorum.  But, in addition to the formal action (which is almost always signed, as I did above), a line will appear at the bottom whenever a person edits a post.  At the bottom of your post above, it says "« Last Edit: Today at 11:12 AM by cleveland » "
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2009, 10:22:02 PM »

Why are you bringing me in to this? Am I your "token" Old Calendarist?  Cool
You're the bestest Old Calendarist I know Father. And by this, I don't mean simply "tolerant", but an Old Calendarist who genuinely holds a well thought out and uncompromising position which is in opposition to mine and I think it is quite obvious that we have some very different views of the Church vis-à-vis who is officially "in" or "out", however, we are able to respect one another's opinions without agreeing about them.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,903


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2009, 10:28:05 PM »

If there is a need for that, it should be clearly stated the moderator had edited that message at his discretion, otherwise it would be like putting words in other person's mouth, or slandering.

I hadn't realized what specifically you were referring to!  I didn't notice that I hadn't done it to begin with - usually I would indeed indicate the edits with a color change.  I have rectified the situation!
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2009, 10:29:39 PM »

Why are you bringing me in to this? Am I your "token" Old Calendarist?  Cool
You're the bestest Old Calendarist I know Father. And by this, I don't mean simply "tolerant", but an Old Calendarist who genuinely holds a well thought out and uncompromising position which is in opposition to mine and I think it is quite obvious that we have some very different views of the Church vis-à-vis who is officially "in" or "out", however, we are able to respect one another's opinions without agreeing about them.

Thanks for the compliment. I agree completely with your point about respect. If we can't respect our fellow man made in the image of God, how can we claim to respect God Himself?
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2009, 10:34:45 PM »

Dear Irish Hermit,

RZC means "Russian Zarist Church" it's one of the terms used for the pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church, which survives despite the tremendous persecution which still goes on nowdays.

You're just pulling our legs, aren't you.  What on earth is a "zar"?  A small nocturnal mink-like rodent?
Logged
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2009, 10:36:35 PM »

Well goodness gracious, P9, welcome to the forum.  Please tell us about your group.  I never heard of it before.  Who is your patriarch?
[/color]

Thank you! that's very kind of you.

When the revolutionaries took control of the Russian Empire, they created their own State church, while persecuting the pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church, headed by Patriarch Tikhon. The revolutionary authorities mocked the pre-revolutionary Church, and offensively started calling it names such as "Zarist Church", "Tikhonites", etc.

We didn't take offense in being called zarists, after all, we remained loyal to the Zar, as the last Christian Emperor, and we gladly adopted the term, after the soviet authorities renamed their State church, from Living or Renovationalist Church, to Moscow Patriarchate or Russian Orthodox Church.

With the fall of the USSR, many had high hopes in the re-emergence of christianity in russia, but this has not happened, the State church continues to preach their liberal antiorthodox ideology, and the Zarist Orthodox Church continues to be persecuted.



Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
Justinian
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 176


« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2009, 10:39:23 PM »

Well goodness gracious, P9, welcome to the forum.  Please tell us about your group.  I never heard of it before.  Who is your patriarch?
[/color]

Thank you! that's very kind of you.

When the revolutionaries took control of the Russian Empire, they created their own State church, while persecuting the pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church, headed by Patriarch Tikhon. The revolutionary authorities mocked the pre-revolutionary Church, and offensively started calling it names such as "Zarist Church", "Tikhonites", etc.

We didn't take offense in being called zarists, after all, we remained loyal to the Zar, as the last Christian Emperor, and we gladly adopted the term, after the soviet authorities renamed their State church, from Living or Renovationalist Church, to Moscow Patriarchate or Russian Orthodox Church.

With the fall of the USSR, many had high hopes in the re-emergence of christianity in russia, but this has not happened, the State church continues to preach their liberal antiorthodox ideology, and the Zarist Orthodox Church continues to be persecuted.







Why spell it differently then how it is commonly known? Czar and Tsar work just like the should, why the letter drop?
Logged

"All this indignation have I hurled, At the pretending part of the proud world. Who, swollen with selfish vanity devise: false freedoms, holy cheats, and formal lies, Over their fellow slaves to tyrannize." - John Wilmot
Entscheidungsproblem
Formerly Friul & Nebelpfade
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Machine God
Posts: 4,495



WWW
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2009, 10:41:16 PM »

Well goodness gracious, P9, welcome to the forum.  Please tell us about your group.  I never heard of it before.  Who is your patriarch?
[/color]

Thank you! that's very kind of you.

When the revolutionaries took control of the Russian Empire, they created their own State church, while persecuting the pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church, headed by Patriarch Tikhon. The revolutionary authorities mocked the pre-revolutionary Church, and offensively started calling it names such as "Zarist Church", "Tikhonites", etc.

We didn't take offense in being called zarists, after all, we remained loyal to the Zar, as the last Christian Emperor, and we gladly adopted the term, after the soviet authorities renamed their State church, from Living or Renovationalist Church, to Moscow Patriarchate or Russian Orthodox Church.

With the fall of the USSR, many had high hopes in the re-emergence of christianity in russia, but this has not happened, the State church continues to preach their liberal antiorthodox ideology, and the Zarist Orthodox Church continues to be persecuted.







Why spell it differently then how it is commonly known? Czar and Tsar work just like the should, why the letter drop?

German?
Logged

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2009, 10:52:02 PM »


Why spell it differently then how it is commonly known? Czar and Tsar work just like the should, why the letter drop?
[/quote]

Thank you for your correction.

Holy Royal Martyr Tsar Nicholas II, pray to God for us!
Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2009, 10:53:22 PM »

The title of this thread is bugging me.
"Whose" is the possessive form of "who".
"Who's" is the abbreviation of "who is".
Neither seems to fit (or am I missing something?)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 10:55:15 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2009, 11:00:43 PM »

[ Seeing this forum so concerned about protocol and good manners, I'd like to correct one thing that the moderator missed, I mentioned "so called jews" it should be just Jews
Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,492


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2009, 11:25:57 PM »

Well goodness gracious, P9, welcome to the forum.  Please tell us about your group.  I never heard of it before.  Who is your patriarch?
[/color]

Thank you! that's very kind of you.

When the revolutionaries took control of the Russian Empire, they created their own State church, while persecuting the pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church, headed by Patriarch Tikhon. The revolutionary authorities mocked the pre-revolutionary Church, and offensively started calling it names such as "Zarist Church", "Tikhonites", etc.

We didn't take offense in being called zarists, after all, we remained loyal to the Zar, as the last Christian Emperor, and we gladly adopted the term, after the soviet authorities renamed their State church, from Living or Renovationalist Church, to Moscow Patriarchate or Russian Orthodox Church.

With the fall of the USSR, many had high hopes in the re-emergence of christianity in russia, but this has not happened, the State church continues to preach their liberal antiorthodox ideology, and the Zarist Orthodox Church continues to be persecuted.


I wonder if you could be specific about what you think is their "Liberal antiorthodox ideology"?


Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,492


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2009, 11:27:11 PM »

[ Seeing this forum so concerned about protocol and good manners, I'd like to correct one thing that the moderator missed, I mentioned "so called jews" it should be just Jews

Do you consider yourself to be an Anti-Semite?
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2009, 11:45:20 PM »

Perhaps this topic is better suited to Free-For-All (religious topics)?
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,903


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2009, 11:47:50 PM »

Perhaps this topic is better suited to Free-For-All (religious topics)?

Hmmmm.  Good suggestion, I think (it's far too late for me to think rationally at this point...).
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Myrrh23
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,639



« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2009, 12:45:40 AM »

Ahem. The correct spelling of the Title should be "Who's Orthodox Anyways?". Now back to your regularly scheduled BS. Smiley
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 12:49:36 AM by Myrrh23 » Logged

*I am no longer posting on OC.net*

We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.

All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 10,196


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2009, 12:46:52 AM »

The title of this thread is bugging me.
"Whose" is the possessive form of "who".
"Who's" is the abbreviation of "who is".
Neither seems to fit (or am I missing something?)

Perhaps the title is trying to say "To Whom Would the Title Orthodoxy Rightfully Belong To?"

I think we all know the answer to that question:

AMM  angel
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Myrrh23
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,639



« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2009, 12:48:06 AM »

The title of this thread is bugging me.
"Whose" is the possessive form of "who".
"Who's" is the abbreviation of "who is".
Neither seems to fit (or am I missing something?)

Whoops! OzG already beat me to it. Good show. Tongue
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 12:48:36 AM by Myrrh23 » Logged

*I am no longer posting on OC.net*

We all have a Black Dog and a White Dog inside of us. The One you feed the most eventually eats the Other.

All are tempted, but it is the courageous person who clings to God during the storm. For the Ego is a prison, but Christ is the Liberator
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2009, 01:16:47 AM »

Well goodness gracious, P9, welcome to the forum.  Please tell us about your group.  I never heard of it before.  Who is your patriarch?
[/color]

Thank you! that's very kind of you.

When the revolutionaries took control of the Russian Empire, they created their own State church, while persecuting the pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church, headed by Patriarch Tikhon. The revolutionary authorities mocked the pre-revolutionary Church, and offensively started calling it names such as "Zarist Church", "Tikhonites", etc.

We didn't take offense in being called zarists, after all, we remained loyal to the Zar, as the last Christian Emperor, and we gladly adopted the term, after the soviet authorities renamed their State church, from Living or Renovationalist Church, to Moscow Patriarchate or Russian Orthodox Church.

With the fall of the USSR, many had high hopes in the re-emergence of christianity in russia, but this has not happened, the State church continues to preach their liberal antiorthodox ideology, and the Zarist Orthodox Church continues to be persecuted.







when did the word zar come into use.  It should be the word Tsar /King.....Tsarica/ queen ,Tsarstvo/kingdom
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 01:23:07 AM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,435


EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2009, 02:53:23 AM »

Ahem. The correct spelling of the Title should be "Who's Orthodox Anyways?". Now back to your regularly scheduled BS. Smiley
Nah!  When I titled the thread, I had in mind "Whose definition of Orthodoxy is Orthodox, Anyway?"
Logged
Robert W
Self-appointed forum herald
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Finland
Posts: 469


Love is no feeling


« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2009, 06:28:34 AM »

Quote
With the exception of the Orthodox Church of Finland, all New Calendar Orthodox Churches follow the same Paschalion as the Orthodox Churches which follow the Julian calendar.

Oh they're heretics anyway, let's not split hairs..

H-E-R-E-T-I-C-S

The next thing we hear is:
"...there's standing one right behind me, isn't there?"

 Grin Grin Grin
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,903


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2009, 07:10:33 AM »

Ahem. The correct spelling of the Title should be "Who's Orthodox Anyways?". Now back to your regularly scheduled BS. Smiley
Nah!  When I titled the thread, I had in mind "Whose definition of Orthodoxy is Orthodox, Anyway?"

I got the reference.  Where everything's made up, and the points don't matter.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Tags: Russian True Orthodox Church Old Calendarists Godwin's Law schism New Calendar ecumenism WCC traditionalist 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.157 seconds with 71 queries.