Orthodox use of the Rosary

[Irish Hermit]

When i use to walk my Dogs while they were alive, in my neighborhood alley in Chicago..When people moved they actually threw there rosaries and prayer books and other things out..I found quite a lot rosaries over time ..I  kept several of them ,i still have them ,some are sterling silver..
A German neighbor a catholic friend,i gave him quite a few..some i would take to a catholic church and leave them in the pews...

I really don't have anything against them...

I would not encourage any Orthodox parishioners to buy and use a Tibetan rosary, even though they can be very beautiful.  But then I would not encourage anybody to use a prayer rope/rosary which had not been made by another Orthodox Christian.

That said, twenty years ago I had a friend who was a serious Buddhist (lamist) and he converted to Christianity... he brought his much loved mala (rosary) and asked, what to do with it. We stood in front of the icons and prayed and it came to me that it was no more an object of demonic worship than his own lips and mouth which had once prayed to the demons and murmured Tibetan mantras. Just as his lips could be redeemed for Christ, so could his prayer rope. So we placed it in the Altar for 40 days for God to hallow it in His presence and after that he took communion on a Sunday morning and we then blessed the mala and signed it with the Cross of Christ.

[PoorFoolNicholas]

Nicholas,

Taking this to your spiritual father and heeding his direction is probably the best thing you could do.    You have asked the Orthodox about adopting several Roman Catholic means of prayer and self-mortification - the rosary, the chaplet of divine mercy, the cilice, the cord.   People have offered you their thoughts but you seem to want to press these devotions on us.

Well, one of Orthodoxy's major "devotions" and spiritual disciplines is finding and obeying a spiritual director (as it is also for serious Catholics.)  Please consult yours about these things which are fascinating you. 

Let the words of Saint Dorotheus of Gaza be our guide if we wish to set out on the path of spiritual progress:

"I know of no falling away of a monk which did not come from his reliance on
his own sentiments. Nothing is more pitiful, nothing more disastrous than to
be one's own spiritual director."

Very encouraging words, thank you. And yes, I am obedient to my Spiritual Father. I have begun nothing without first consulting with him. I am so humbled, and appreciative that you are all concerned. God Bless You my brothers, and sisters!

[PoorFoolNicholas]

...I fail to understand why an Orthodox person needs to get involved with this practice...

You should probably ask Bishop Basil of the Antiochian Archdiocese maybe?

[AMM]

PFN, have you seen the Tale of the Five Prayers by St. Demetrius of Rostov that is in the Old Jordanville Prayer Book:

http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/5pray.htm

It's one I like a lot.

[PoorFoolNicholas]

PFN, have you seen the Tale of the Five Prayers by St. Demetrius of Rostov that is in the Old Jordanville Prayer Book:

http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/5pray.htm

It's one I like a lot.

Really excellent. I like it a lot as well. God Bless!

[Papist]

PFN, have you seen the Tale of the Five Prayers by St. Demetrius of Rostov that is in the Old Jordanville Prayer Book:

http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/5pray.htm

It's one I like a lot.

Beautiful shorter version of the Rosary.

[PoorFoolNicholas]

PFN, have you seen the Tale of the Five Prayers by St. Demetrius of Rostov that is in the Old Jordanville Prayer Book:

http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/5pray.htm

It's one I like a lot.

Beautiful shorter version of the Rosary.

Indeed.

[Irish Hermit]

PFN, have you seen the Tale of the Five Prayers by St. Demetrius of Rostov that is in the Old Jordanville Prayer Book:

http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/5pray.htm

It's one I like a lot.

The five prayers are beautiful.

The "promises" associated with them are dubious, and in fact I thought they had been removed from the Jordanville Prayerbook?

[Anastasios]

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.

Actually that's a major point. It's not part of our tradition. So to start using it, means you are picking and choosing your devotions. You are thus an arbitrator of tradition.  It may not be "garbage" but it is also not something that contributed to the deification of the Orthodox saints.

[Papist]

PFN, have you seen the Tale of the Five Prayers by St. Demetrius of Rostov that is in the Old Jordanville Prayer Book:

http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/5pray.htm

It's one I like a lot.

The five prayers are beautiful.

The "promises" associated with them are dubious, and in fact I thought they had been removed from the Jordanville Prayerbook?

The universe will soon cease to exist. Father Ambrose and I agree for the second time in a year. 

[PoorFoolNicholas]

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.

Actually that's a major point. It's not part of our tradition. So to start using it, means you are picking and choosing your devotions. You are thus an arbitrator of tradition.  It may not be "garbage" but it is also not something that contributed to the deification of the Orthodox saints.

See reply #92.

[Anastasios]

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.

Actually that's a major point. It's not part of our tradition. So to start using it, means you are picking and choosing your devotions. You are thus an arbitrator of tradition.  It may not be "garbage" but it is also not something that contributed to the deification of the Orthodox saints.

See reply #92.

I was not aware that Bp Basil is an arbitrator of tradition.

[PeterTheAleut]

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.

Actually that's a major point. It's not part of our tradition. So to start using it, means you are picking and choosing your devotions. You are thus an arbitrator of tradition.  It may not be "garbage" but it is also not something that contributed to the deification of the Orthodox saints.

See reply #92.

I was not aware that Bp Basil is an arbitrator of tradition.

Certainly not for me, since I'm not in his diocese.

[AMM]

PFN, have you seen the Tale of the Five Prayers by St. Demetrius of Rostov that is in the Old Jordanville Prayer Book:

http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/5pray.htm

It's one I like a lot.

The five prayers are beautiful.

The "promises" associated with them are dubious, and in fact I thought they had been removed from the Jordanville Prayerbook?

But conceivably countless numbers of Orthodox Christians have recited both; and the sky didn't fall.

I liked your Tibetan story btw.

[Papist]

I would not encourage any Orthodox parishioners to buy and use a Tibetan rosary, even though they can be very beautiful.  But then I would not encourage anybody to use a prayer rope/rosary which had not been made by another Orthodox Christian.

That said, twenty years ago I had a friend who was a serious Buddhist (lamist) and he converted to Christianity... he brought his much loved mala (rosary) and asked, what to do with it. We stood in front of the icons and prayed and it came to me that it was no more an object of demonic worship than his own lips and mouth which had once prayed to the demons and murmured Tibetan mantras. Just as his lips could be redeemed for Christ, so could his prayer rope. So we placed it in the Altar for 40 days for God to hallow it in His presence and after that he took communion on a Sunday morning and we then blessed the mala and signed it with the Cross of Christ.

BEAUTIFUL story!

[PoorFoolNicholas]

I was not aware that Bp Basil is an arbitrator of tradition.

So, the Western Rite is in heresy? And Bishop Basil is allowing it?

[Anastasios]

I was not aware that Bp Basil is an arbitrator of tradition.

So, the Western Rite is in heresy? And Bishop Basil is allowing it?

I didn't say that. But the propriety of the Western Rites is another question altogether.

[PoorFoolNicholas]

...the propriety of the Western Rites is another question altogether.

Care to elaborate?

[witega]

...the propriety of the Western Rites is another question altogether.

Care to elaborate?

Whether or not it is/was a good idea to attempt to artificially ressurect a dead tradition, and if it was a good idea, if specific attempts have done so in a way that is particularly effective and/or faithful to the living Tradition remains an debated question within most local churches.

It's a broader question which would take this thread way off-topic--but I presume Fr. Anastasios did feel the need to add a caveat since some people seem to assume that if something is currently in Western Rite usage that means all Orthodox will find it acceptable. When, in point of fact, many Orthodox consider certain bishops/synod's decision to allow the Western rite in the same light that other Orthodox consider the decision to use the New Calendar or the decision of the Brezhnev-area MP to allow limited communion to stranded Roman Catholics.

[PeterTheAleut]

I was not aware that Bp Basil is an arbitrator of tradition.

So, the Western Rite is in heresy? And Bishop Basil is allowing it?

I actually find this to be a non sequitur response.  I don't imagine Fr. Anastasios meant his statement to imply that Bishop Basil is permitting heresy.  The statement means merely that we are not to take everything Bishop Basil says as though His Grace is the final authority on what constitutes Holy Tradition and what doesn't.

[PoorFoolNicholas]

I don't imagine Fr. Anastasios meant his statement to imply that Bishop Basil is permitting heresy.  The statement means merely that we are not to take everything Bishop Basil says as though His Grace is the final authority on what constitutes Holy Tradition and what doesn't.

I agree completely with you. On the other hand, His Grace is my Bishop. While not the final authority, isn't it OK to listen to him?

[Reader KevinAndrew]

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.

Actually that's a major point. It's not part of our tradition. So to start using it, means you are picking and choosing your devotions. You are thus an arbitrator of tradition.  It may not be "garbage" but it is also not something that contributed to the deification of the Orthodox saints.

Father, I agree that it is not part of Greek Orthodox tradition. It would be odd for a Greek Orthodox or any Eastern Orthodox Christian to just randomly start using it for no apparant reason. That being said, I seriously doubt the Venerable Bede, St. Kevin, St. Aiden, St. Olaf, St. Leo, etc. ran around praying with chotkis and singing akathists. Must we throw out all Western devotions with roots in pre-schism Western Christianity because there is no Eastern equivalent? Much like the epiklesis being welded into our Mass, even though Orthodoxy was fine without it before 1054...but that's for another discussion.

[PeterTheAleut]

I don't imagine Fr. Anastasios meant his statement to imply that Bishop Basil is permitting heresy.  The statement means merely that we are not to take everything Bishop Basil says as though His Grace is the final authority on what constitutes Holy Tradition and what doesn't.

I agree completely with you. On the other hand, His Grace is my Bishop. While not the final authority, isn't it OK to listen to him?

Of course it's OK to listen to your bishop.   Just don't think--and I don't think you do --that we're all beholden to listen to him and submit to his authority, even if we're not in his diocese.

[Rosehip]

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.

Actually that's a major point. It's not part of our tradition. So to start using it, means you are picking and choosing your devotions. You are thus an arbitrator of tradition.  It may not be "garbage" but it is also not something that contributed to the deification of the Orthodox saints.

Father, I agree that it is not part of Greek Orthodox tradition. It would be odd for a Greek Orthodox or any Eastern Orthodox Christian to just randomly start using it for no apparant reason. That being said, I seriously doubt the Venerable Bede, St. Kevin, St. Aiden, St. Olaf, St. Leo, etc. ran around praying with chotkis and singing akathists. Must we throw out all Western devotions with roots in pre-schism Western Christianity because there is no Eastern equivalent? Much like the epiklesis being welded into our Mass, even though Orthodoxy was fine without it before 1054...but that's for another discussion.

I didn't know we have "mass"-I thought that was a Catholic thing and that we call our service the Divine Liturgy.

[Papist]

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.

Actually that's a major point. It's not part of our tradition. So to start using it, means you are picking and choosing your devotions. You are thus an arbitrator of tradition.  It may not be "garbage" but it is also not something that contributed to the deification of the Orthodox saints.

Father, I agree that it is not part of Greek Orthodox tradition. It would be odd for a Greek Orthodox or any Eastern Orthodox Christian to just randomly start using it for no apparant reason. That being said, I seriously doubt the Venerable Bede, St. Kevin, St. Aiden, St. Olaf, St. Leo, etc. ran around praying with chotkis and singing akathists. Must we throw out all Western devotions with roots in pre-schism Western Christianity because there is no Eastern equivalent? Much like the epiklesis being welded into our Mass, even though Orthodoxy was fine without it before 1054...but that's for another discussion.

I didn't know we have "mass"-I thought that was a Catholic thing and that we call our service the Divine Liturgy.

Don't western rite Orthodox have mass?

[ialmisry]

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.

Actually that's a major point. It's not part of our tradition. So to start using it, means you are picking and choosing your devotions. You are thus an arbitrator of tradition.  It may not be "garbage" but it is also not something that contributed to the deification of the Orthodox saints.

Father, I agree that it is not part of Greek Orthodox tradition. It would be odd for a Greek Orthodox or any Eastern Orthodox Christian to just randomly start using it for no apparant reason. That being said, I seriously doubt the Venerable Bede, St. Kevin, St. Aiden, St. Olaf, St. Leo, etc. ran around praying with chotkis and singing akathists. Must we throw out all Western devotions with roots in pre-schism Western Christianity because there is no Eastern equivalent? Much like the epiklesis being welded into our Mass, even though Orthodoxy was fine without it before 1054...but that's for another discussion.

I didn't know we have "mass"-I thought that was a Catholic thing and that we call our service the Divine Liturgy.

Don't western rite Orthodox have mass?

The Orthodox Missal says "The Divine Liturgy.....commonly called the Mass"  It ends "Ite missa est."

[Reader KevinAndrew]

Don't western rite Orthodox have mass?

We most certainly do. 

[Rosehip]

I'm so sorry!! You are Western-rite and maybe you call it the mass, then? I really don't know very much about Western-rite Orthodox and have never been to their services. I haven't heard regular Orthodox people calling the Liturgy the "mass" though, even if it calls it that in your book, Ialmisry. My little prayer book is different in that it calls it the Divine Liturgy.

[ialmisry]

I'm so sorry!! You are Western-rite and maybe you call it the mass, then? I really don't know very much about Western-rite Orthodox and have never been to their services. I haven't heard regular Orthodox people calling the Liturgy the "mass" though, even if it calls it that in your book, Ialmisry. My little prayer book is different in that it calls it the Divine Liturgy.

LOL.  I'm not WRO.  Just a firm supporter.

This issue doesn't come up, for instance, in Arabic: both "mass" and "liturgy" is "quddaas."  I seem to remember that the liturgical books in Latin call it "Liturgia"

[Rosehip]

Ialmisry, I KNOW you are not western-rite Orthodox (going by the information by your avatar-although, these days, I no longer know if I can believe what people say about what they are on OC.net... ). I was referring to Reader KevinAndrew. I'm sorry I wasn't clear about that.

[PoorFoolNicholas]

Of course it's OK to listen to your bishop.   Just don't think--and I don't think you do --that we're all beholden to listen to him and submit to his authority, even if we're not in his diocese.

Absolutely. God Bless You!

[PoorFoolNicholas]

Father, I agree that it is not part of Greek Orthodox tradition. It would be odd for a Greek Orthodox or any Eastern Orthodox Christian to just randomly start using it for no apparant reason. That being said, I seriously doubt the Venerable Bede, St. Kevin, St. Aiden, St. Olaf, St. Leo, etc. ran around praying with chotkis and singing akathists. Must we throw out all Western devotions with roots in pre-schism Western Christianity because there is no Eastern equivalent? Much like the epiklesis being welded into our Mass, even though Orthodoxy was fine without it before 1054...but that's for another discussion.

Excellent points. I agree.

[christianos]

1 Thessalonians 5:21 test everything and hold on to what is good

Hi everbody
In the matter of fact, it doesn't matter it is latin or eastern Tradition, we are not a slave of particular devotion.
If we really know the Christ it's not a problem to go against the tide and use outwardly from strange piety.
I encourage You to pray the Rosary
God Bless all of You

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