OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 23, 2014, 11:28:53 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Orthodox use of the Rosary  (Read 17880 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« on: April 02, 2009, 01:59:27 PM »

I have heard that some in the Western Rite in the Antiochian Archdiocese use the rosary. I was wondering if they use different mysteries (Joyous/Sorrowful,etc.), or if the Roman Catholic Mysteries are used?
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 02:36:34 PM »

I have heard that some in the Western Rite in the Antiochian Archdiocese use the rosary. I was wondering if they use different mysteries (Joyous/Sorrowful,etc.), or if the Roman Catholic Mysteries are used?
From what I have read St. Seraphim of Serov used reintroduced the Rosay in Russia but that the EO Rosary has diffrent mysteries. Also, I have heard that EO Christians are not encouraged to imagine the mysteries as Catholics are.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 02:47:38 PM »

I have heard that some in the Western Rite in the Antiochian Archdiocese use the rosary. I was wondering if they use different mysteries (Joyous/Sorrowful,etc.), or if the Roman Catholic Mysteries are used?
From what I have read St. Seraphim of Serov used reintroduced the Rosay in Russia but that the EO Rosary has diffrent mysteries. Also, I have heard that EO Christians are not encouraged to imagine the mysteries as Catholics are.
Does anyone know what these mysteries are? Is this a faithful representation of the Orthodox Mysteries of the Rosary?
http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary#foot1
Logged
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 09:08:43 AM »

I have heard that some in the Western Rite in the Antiochian Archdiocese use the rosary. I was wondering if they use different mysteries (Joyous/Sorrowful,etc.), or if the Roman Catholic Mysteries are used?
From what I have read St. Seraphim of Serov used reintroduced the Rosay in Russia but that the EO Rosary has diffrent mysteries. Also, I have heard that EO Christians are not encouraged to imagine the mysteries as Catholics are.
Does anyone know what these mysteries are? Is this a faithful representation of the Orthodox Mysteries of the Rosary?
http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary#foot1
Anyone? Hello?
Logged
Dan-Romania
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 438


« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 11:23:21 AM »

I have heard that some in the Western Rite in the Antiochian Archdiocese use the rosary. I was wondering if they use different mysteries (Joyous/Sorrowful,etc.), or if the Roman Catholic Mysteries are used?
From what I have read St. Seraphim of Serov used reintroduced the Rosay in Russia but that the EO Rosary has diffrent mysteries. Also, I have heard that EO Christians are not encouraged to imagine the mysteries as Catholics are.
Does anyone know what these mysteries are? Is this a faithful representation of the Orthodox Mysteries of the Rosary?
http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary#foot1

Hmmm, I`m sceptical about this rosary . Personally i see no mystery or sacrement in it .
Logged

"I believe because it is impossible"
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 11:28:25 AM »

There are no mysteries attached to any so-called Orthodox rosary. We have our prayer rope with which we recite the Jesus Prayer. What need we more?
Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2009, 11:46:35 AM »

I was just wondering if the link that I provided above was faithful to the way some Western Rite Orthodox pray the rosary. Is it?
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2009, 12:41:08 PM »

There are no mysteries attached to any so-called Orthodox rosary. We have our prayer rope with which we recite the Jesus Prayer. What need we more?
St. Serapim of Serov disagrees with you.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,390


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2009, 01:01:12 PM »

AFAIK Western Rite Orthodox at least in the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate use the traditional RC Rosary (which has more than one variation) and mysteries (the same in all traditional forms).
Logged

username!
Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 4,748



« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 01:09:47 PM »

You all haven't witnessed the elderly ladies saying the rosary Sunday mornings before Divine Liturgy in some Orthodox Churches.  Not that I will ever reveal where though and exactly what high ranking church official had to say about it.. "you boys leave the little old ladies alone to say their rosaries, they learned it in Catholic grade school 60-70 years ago and they're the only ones saying it now..."
Logged

PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2009, 03:19:12 PM »

AFAIK Western Rite Orthodox at least in the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate use the traditional RC Rosary (which has more than one variation) and mysteries (the same in all traditional forms).
Is this true? Does anyone else know? Do they use the Luminous Mysteries, introduced by Pope John Paul II, as well? What are the other variations that can be used? Thanks to all for the input.
Logged
antiderivative
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Northeastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: A jurisdiction
Posts: 349


« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009, 06:15:56 PM »

In the icons of St. Seraphim I've seen he's depicted with an Old Believer prayer rope.
Logged

signature
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 06:53:57 PM »

I am aware of St. Seraphim's use of the rosary. I just want to know what the use in the Western Rite is. What are these variations that The young fogey speaks of?
Logged
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,730


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 10:45:40 PM »

There are different Rosaries but the Dominican is the best known and most widely prayed:

The Dominican Rosary

1. Say the Sign of the Cross on the Crucifix and then the Apostles' Creed .
2. Say an Our Father on the first large bead.
3. Say a Hail Mary on each of the three small beads.
4. Say a Glory be. 
5. Announce the Mystery.
6. Say an Our Father on the large bead.
7. Say a Hail Mary on the each of the ten small beads while meditating on the Mystery.
8. Say a Glory be.
9. Repeat steps 5-8 for each of the following decades.
10. Conclude with a Hail Holy Queen on the medal.

The Joyful Mysteries:
The Annunciation
The Visitation
The Nativity
The Presentation of Jesus in the Temple
The Finding of the Child Jesus in the Temple

The Sorrowful Mysteries:
The Agony in the Garden
The Scourging at the Pillar
The Crowning with Thorns
The Carrying of the Cross
The Crucifixion

The Glorious Mysteries:
The Resurrection
The Ascension
The Descent of the Holy Spirit
The Assumption
The Coronation of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Pope John Paul II of blessed memory introduced the optional
Luminous Mysteries:
The Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan
The Wedding at Cana
Jesus' Proclamation of the Kingdom of God
The Transfiguration
The Institution of the Eucharist

The Franciscan Rosary of the Seven Joys of the Mother of God

1. Announce the First Joy and Say the Our Father on the 5th bead from the Cross.
2. Say one Hail Mary for each of the ten beads.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 for the 2nd through the 7th Joys.
4. Say Two Hail Mary's two complete 72 years of Mary's Joy on the 4th and 3rd beads from the Cross.
5. Say Our Father and Glory Be for the intention of the Holy Father on the 2nd bead from the Cross.
6. Say Hail Mary on the 1st bead from the Cross

The Seven Joys:
The Annunciation
The Visitation
The Nativity
The Adoration by the Magi
The Presentation of Jesus in the Temple
The Resurrection
The Assumption


The Servite Rosary of the Seven Sorrows of the Mother of God

1. Announce the First Sorrow; then say the Our Father on the large bead.
2. Say seven Hail Marys, on the seven small beads while meditating on the Sorrow.
3. Repeat 1 and 2 continuing through all seven Sorrows.
4. Say three Hail Marys in honor of the Tears of Our Sorrowful Mother.
5. Say an Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory Be for the intention of the Holy Father.

The Seven Sorrows:
The Prophecy of Simeon
The Flight into Egypt
The Loss of Jesus in the Temple,
The Mother of God meeting Jesus on the road to Calvary
The Crucifixion
The Taking down of Jesus' body from the Cross
The Laying of Jesus’ body in the Tomb.


The Brigittine Rosary

The Brigittine Rosary consists of 6 decades of 10 beads each.  There are 3 additional beads at the end.  Each decade consists of 1 Our Father, 10 Hail Marys.  The Apostle's Creed is said on the Crucifix.  The 63 Hail Marys are in remembrance of the 63 years of Mary's earthly life according to one traditional account.  The 7 Our Fathers, said on the large beads between each decade, are in remembrance of the Seven Sorrows and Seven Joys of the Blessed Virgin.

Rule of the Mother of God given by St. Seraphim of Sarov
as related by Father Alexander Gumanovsky, a spiritual son of Father Zosima, who was a spiritual son of St. Seraphim of Sarov. 

150 Hail Marys with an Our Father and the prayer: Open unto us the door of thy loving-kindness, O blessed Mother of God, in that we set our hope on thee, may we not go astray; but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, fix thou art the salvation of all Christian people after every ten Hail Marys.  It may be reduce to 50 Hail Marys.

The Mysteries used by Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky, a contemporary of Fr. Zosima:
1. The Birth of the Theotokos
2. The Presentation of the Theotokos
3. The Annunciation 
4. The Visitation
5. The Nativity
6. The Meeting with St. Simeon
7. The Flight into Egypt
8. The Finding in the Temple
9. The Wedding at Cana
10. The Crucifixion
11. The Resurrection
12. The Ascension 
13. Pentecost
14. The Dormition
15. The Protection of the Theotokos


Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 11:16:12 PM »

I hope I don't scandalize any of my fellow EO brothers or sisters, but here's my take on the Rosary.  I used to pray it and loved doing so, but I got a lot of flack and guilt for doing so, so I gave it up.  But to me, it's a beautiful tradition, though it doesn't necessarily come from our tradition.  Think about it; verses of the Holy Bible are read (and they're about Christ and His [our] Mother) and then there are the prayers to the Theotokos.  Again, I don't wish to scandalize anyone, but to me, though the Rosary is not our tradition, it seems completely orthodox (little 'o') to me.  If I am wrong, I apologize.  But could anyone please show me why I am wrong (with the understanding, of course, that it could be 'tweaked' a little [such as the Creed])?
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2009, 12:51:42 AM »

You don't need to apologize, my brother. It is a beautiful expression of our devotion. I personally don't use it nor do I intend to but I can certainly see that there is much truth in this tradition. The fact is... there is truth in all Christian traditions  but the fullness of the truth is found only within Orthodoxy. It seems to me that your best approach would be to speak with your priest and/or spiritual advisor. In my case, my spiritual father told me point blank to stick with the Orthodox prayer rope... so I do. It is enough for me... after all... I'm just a simple man and praying: Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner... is enough.
Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2009, 01:14:36 PM »

Thanks to all for the encouraging words. And thanks to Deacon Lance for all that info. That was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a bunch. God Bless.
Logged
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,390


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2009, 07:57:27 AM »

Saying the Rosary privately of course is not a problem. In church it's a Western Rite, Western Catholic thing. In addition to Fr Deacon Lance's description of different chaplets I meant there are different ways of saying the Rosary with the 15 traditional mysteries: the actual Dominican one is different from the common one and there is an older version of the common one that begins with the same versicles and responses as the Divine Office (hours) and not the Apostles' Creed, Our Father and three Hail Marys.

From about two years ago on the objection that the Rosary uses fantasy in prayer:

...the oft cited "one is required to use their imagination with the Mysteries" is not true. One is instructed to meditate on the Mysteries much as one is instucted to meditate with icons. Never has the teaching of the Church on this prayer been to "fantasize" about being at the Nativity, Crucifixion, etc.
Logged

PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2009, 02:37:59 PM »

Saying the Rosary privately of course is not a problem. In church it's a Western Rite, Western Catholic thing. In addition to Fr Deacon Lance's description of different chaplets I meant there are different ways of saying the Rosary with the 15 traditional mysteries: the actual Dominican one is different from the common one and there is an older version of the common one that begins with the same versicles and responses as the Divine Office (hours) and not the Apostles' Creed, Our Father and three Hail Marys.
Thanks for all the info to you as well. Do you know of a web site I could go to, or some other source, that describes these other ways that you speak of? God Bless.
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2009, 02:44:17 PM »

http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary.html

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Rosary
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2009, 02:53:20 PM »

Thanks to you Papist. I have started saying the rosary, and find it very fulfilling. God Bless.
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2009, 03:00:06 PM »

Thanks to you Papist. I have started saying the rosary, and find it very fulfilling. God Bless.
You are welcome dear brother. You have rekindled my devotion to Our Lady through the Rosary in my prayer life. Thank you for that.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 03:01:08 PM by Papist » Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2009, 03:05:55 PM »

You are welcome dear brother. You have rekindled my devotion to Our Lady through the Rosary in my prayer life. Thank you for that.
God Bless You too brother!
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2009, 03:07:04 PM »


15. The Protection of the Theotokos



Is the Proection of the Thotokos a mystery in her life? Can you expand on this?
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2009, 03:12:26 PM »

Is the Protection of the Theotokos a mystery in her life? Can you expand on this?
Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.
Perhaps this doesn't answer your question. I hope it does. It is from the web site you gave me, so I probably haven't told you anything that you didn't already know. God Bless.
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2009, 03:31:57 PM »

Isn't the real difference between normal Roman Catholic use of the rosary, and St. Seraphim using a prayer rope to say the Rejoice O Theotokos and the our Father that the latter did not include meditating on a mystery?
Logged
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2009, 03:34:00 PM »

Isn't the real difference between normal Roman Catholic use of the rosary, and St. Seraphim using a prayer rope to say the Rejoice O Theotokos and the our Father that the latter did not include meditating on a mystery?
No, he did meditate on mysteries. Papist gave a link above of the mysteries that Saint Seraphim used.
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2009, 03:57:10 PM »

No, he did meditate on mysteries. Papist gave a link above of the mysteries that Saint Seraphim used.

Seraphim Zvezdinsky used those mysteries, St. Seraphim of Sarov, as far as I can tell, did not.

I quite like the rosary myself, so I have no personal objection to it, but I wonder how the practice of meditating on something specific while praying fits in with the call to only focus on the words of the prayer, banishing all other thoughts and images, that we find in most Orthodox works on prayer.
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2009, 12:54:42 AM »

Is the Protection of the Theotokos a mystery in her life? Can you expand on this?
Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.
Perhaps this doesn't answer your question. I hope it does. It is from the web site you gave me, so I probably haven't told you anything that you didn't already know. God Bless.
Actually it does help. I should have checked that. Smiley
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
AlexanderOfBergamo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Traditionalist Christian
Jurisdiction: The Original First Millennium Church
Posts: 706


« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2009, 07:19:54 AM »

Hi all!
I recently read of this practice of st Seraphim of Sarov myself and was really stroke by it. I tried to pray through it and I find it a fully Orthodox practice. The fifteen meditations, being not distributed in three (now four) categories, should be prayed all together, since the number of 150 Angelical Salutations repeats the rhythm of 150 psalms. I use the Rejoice, o Theotokos as st Seraphim used to (the Hail Mary in its modern full form is more recent and follows the Schism of 1054). I find it incredibly a powerful instrument of prayer and meditation...

Btw, i think the 15th meditation concentrates on the Crowning of the Theotokos; it is through this crowning that Mary, being Queen of Heaven and Mother of all Christians, that she assumes the function to protect us with her red cloak (as she is depicted in a certain typology of icons). I like to think of the 15 meditations as a series of 15 icons to pray in front of. I'm even looking for icons which depict this events so that they could support me in meditating while praying the Rosary: maybe this way I'm not going to travel through imagination, keeping an eye fixed on the Orthodox Faith...
Logged

"Also in the Catholic Church itself we take great care that we hold that which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and properly Catholic" (St. Vincent of Lérins, "The Commonitory")
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2009, 09:35:58 AM »

Seraphim Zvezdinsky used those mysteries, St. Seraphim of Sarov, as far as I can tell, did not.
Sorry, you are right. That's what happens when someone gives an answer to something he knows nothing about. I have been using the Rosary lately, and find it extremely fulfilling.
Logged
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2009, 10:16:34 AM »

It is not an Orthodox practice. Perhaps St Seraphim of Sarov prayed the rosary but he's the exception to the vast rule of Orthodox Saints and monastics who do NOT pray the rosary but pray the Jesus Prayer with the prayer rope. I certainly do not understand this desire to incorporate Catholic devotional practices into our Orthodox lives. I agree that the rosary is a beautiful devotion but so are many Protestant devotions. Should we also start incorporating these in our Orthodox living? What about beautiful non-Christian practices? And where will it stop? If you insist upon praying the rosary make certain you have your priest's and/or spiritual father's blessing rather than a few folks here who are endorsing it so readily.
Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2009, 10:21:26 AM »

It is not an Orthodox practice. Perhaps St Seraphim of Sarov prayed the rosary but he's the exception to the vast rule of Orthodox Saints and monastics who do NOT pray the rosary but pray the Jesus Prayer with the prayer rope. I certainly do not understand this desire to incorporate Catholic devotional practices into our Orthodox lives. I agree that the rosary is a beautiful devotion but so are many Protestant devotions. Should we also start incorporating these in our Orthodox living? What about beautiful non-Christian practices? And where will it stop? If you insist upon praying the rosary make certain you have your priest's and/or spiritual father's blessing rather than a few folks here who are endorsing it so readily.
Its my understanding that the praying of the 150 angelic salutations is a pre-schism practice.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
AMM
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,076



« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2009, 10:25:01 AM »

I like the Rosary and we gave our daughter one for her First Confession.
Logged
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2009, 10:26:22 AM »

I don't know about pre-schism and post-schism practices. I KNOW what my spiritual father told me: do not pray the rosary. He wants me to use the prayer rope and pray the Jesus Prayer. I'm bound to follow his counsel in this. I don't know why it is so pressing with you to ensure that we Orthodox are participating in Catholic devotions? Following the counsel of our spiritual fathers and priests is far more Orthodox than reading up on history and following the advice of forum members on their "take" on what constitutes Orthodox practice.
Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2009, 10:29:10 AM »

I like the Rosary and we gave our daughter one for her First Confession.

Why not a prayer rope? Why create confusion? Why not give our children evangelical devotionals, reading materials, cds and so forth? We need to be very clear about what is and what is not Orthodox spiritual practice. Orthodox means right worship... right theology. Why substitute for the prayer rope?Huh
Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2009, 10:35:55 AM »

I like the Rosary and we gave our daughter one for her First Confession.

Why not a prayer rope? Why create confusion? Why not give our children evangelical devotionals, reading materials, cds and so forth? We need to be very clear about what is and what is not Orthodox spiritual practice. Orthodox means right worship... right theology. Why substitute for the prayer rope?Huh
Because if the 150 angelic salutations is an acceptable pre-schism Orthodox practice, then it is Orthodox.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2009, 10:36:51 AM »

I don't know about pre-schism and post-schism practices. I KNOW what my spiritual father told me: do not pray the rosary. He wants me to use the prayer rope and pray the Jesus Prayer. I'm bound to follow his counsel in this. I don't know why it is so pressing with you to ensure that we Orthodox are participating in Catholic devotions? Following the counsel of our spiritual fathers and priests is far more Orthodox than reading up on history and following the advice of forum members on their "take" on what constitutes Orthodox practice.
No one is talking about EOs adopting Catholic practices. The discussion is about whether or not the Rosary is an acceptable ORTHODOX practice.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2009, 11:14:33 AM »

I don't believe it IS an acceptable EO practice in spite of your attempts to have it accredited. St Seraphim is ONE Orthodox monastics amongst thousands. It seems to me that we're safer staying with what the majority of our Saints practiced and CONTINUE to practice today. As for pre-schism practices... again... I'll leave that to my priest and spiritual father to determine and so far neither has suggested taking up the rosary.
Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2009, 11:27:29 AM »

I don't believe it IS an acceptable EO practice in spite of your attempts to have it accredited. St Seraphim is ONE Orthodox monastics amongst thousands. It seems to me that we're safer staying with what the majority of our Saints practiced and CONTINUE to practice today. As for pre-schism practices... again... I'll leave that to my priest and spiritual father to determine and so far neither has suggested taking up the rosary.
And that's fine. I don't expect all EO's to suddenly start praying the Rosary. It just seems, so far, that it is an EO practice that has fallen into disuse. But I will continue to research the matter.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2009, 11:37:09 AM »

I think that some are a little too bent out of shape about the rosary. I pray 15 decades everyday. I also pray the Jesus Prayer on my prayer rope everyday. Just because something is Catholic doesn't mean that it is garbage. Take that level of logic to the extreme, and see what I mean. I don't have to elaborate on that issue for obvious reasons. For those that disagree, find the info on the rosaries, particularly the mysteries, and show me what the problem is. I am open to hearing what you have to say regarding this subject. But what I have heard so far is not convincing. Just because it isn't THE Prayer rope, isn't a justifiable objection. God Bless.
Logged
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2009, 01:33:19 PM »

No one is getting bent out of shape here. That's just your perception. The fact is, my spiritual father and my priest have told me to NOT use it. Are they also getting "bent out of shape"? There is obviously truth in the rosary, just as there is truth in many evangelical practices. As I asked before, why not incorporate some evangelical practices as well? And while we're at it, if truth is the measure of things, then we can also incorporate the devotional practices of some non-Christian faiths since there is varying degrees of truth in them as well. There's truth in the Catholic service of the Stations of the Cross. Shall we now attend these as well?

Here is the answer from my spiritual father (a priest in the GOA): The Rosary is based on the meditation on the so-called mysteries. It's a very western form of prayer. Even if St. Seraphim said the Rosary doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. The saints are not infallible.

Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2009, 01:58:25 PM »

Even if St. Seraphim said the Rosary doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. The saints are not infallible.


True. But St. Seraphim was such an amazing saint with such a close commuion with God. Doesn't that make him a pretty reliable source?
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2009, 02:15:16 PM »

Not at all. The preponderance of the Church's Saints is where we find reliability. St John Chrysostom (a very, very reliable Saint) believed that the Mother of God had committed sin. Many other Fathers of the Church disagree with him on this issue. At best, the use of the rosary as an Orthodox devotion is questionable.
Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 11,963


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2009, 02:27:08 PM »

Not at all. The preponderance of the Church's Saints is where we find reliability. St John Chrysostom (a very, very reliable Saint) believed that the Mother of God had committed sin. Many other Fathers of the Church disagree with him on this issue.
Good point.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Tags: rosary chotki prayer 
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.129 seconds with 73 queries.