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Author Topic: Thomas Aquinas?  (Read 4843 times) Average Rating: 0
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2009, 06:02:57 PM »

He is not on our calendar. Neither is Justinian---another one who liked to execute Christians who disagreed with him.



I thought these were both members of the Roman Catholic Church who ruled the Empire under the blessing and authority of the Pope? 
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« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2009, 06:28:42 PM »



There is also the question of the sincerity of his baptism. Was he forgiven the killings of numerous people (his own family included) and worship of false gods if he did not think he did anything wrong, or if he purposely waited until the last moment of his life for baptism to "absolve" himself of all of it?


This is certainly not a matter for you to judge.  Do you make it your business to question the sincerity of other people's baptisms?

Perhaps we should all go read the Parable of the Prodigal Son.
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« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2009, 06:32:22 PM »

Since he was an Arian though, we can logically conclude that he was not a Catholic.

If Constantine was an Arian heretic then we can logically conclude that the Pope was also an Arian.    Constantine is quite clear that he learnt his faith from Pope Sylvester of Rome. 

But his words to the Pope do not appear to be Arian but rather a pure confession of the Catholic faith

"...our creed which we have learned from the aforesaid most blessed father and our confessor, Svlvester the universal pontiff....

"We so learned Him to be very man and very God by the preaching of our father Sylvester, the supreme pontiff, that we can in no wise doubt that He was very God and very man."


Source  ::  http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/donatconst.html
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« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2009, 06:35:04 PM »

Alright everyone, the original post was "Just curious, are their any Eastern Orthodox Christians here who appreciate the works of St. Thomas Aquinas? What do you like about him?", let us return to that topic.

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« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2009, 06:36:21 PM »

There is also the question of the sincerity of his baptism. Was he forgiven the ... worship of false gods if he did not think he did anything wrong

Constantine certainly rejected false gods.   As he wrote to Pope Sylvester:

"For we wish you to know, as we have signified through our former imperial decree, that we have gone away from the worship of idols, from mute and deaf images made by hand, from devilish contrivances and from all the pomps of Satan; and have arrived at the pure faith of the Christians..."

Source  ::  http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/donatconst.html
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« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2009, 06:37:22 PM »

Oops, sorry.... back to the topic
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« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2009, 12:08:33 AM »

He is not on our calendar. Neither is Justinian---another one who liked to execute Christians who disagreed with him.



I thought these were both members of the Roman Catholic Church who ruled the Empire under the blessing and authority of the Pope? 
Yawn.
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« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2009, 12:11:33 AM »

He is not on our calendar.

Of course he is on your Calendar.  Do a web search,  You'll find Catholic churches in the States dedicated to him.   Don't tell me you're venerating Arian heretics!  Grin
He's not on the universally calander. He may wrongly venerated by some Eastern Catholics but that does not make him a saint the universal church. Furthermore, this is all off point. You accept Constantine as a saint, yet he was guilty of real murder. On the other hand you think that one thing that disqualifies St. Thomas Aquinas from sainthood is the fact that he supported the death penalty. I think there is some inconsistency in your thinking.
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« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2009, 12:42:48 AM »

Silliest thread we've had here in quite a while. Papist in his self-defined concepts (or delusions) of the undivided Church is quickly backing himself into a corner, ISTM.
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« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2009, 09:58:03 AM »

Silliest thread we've had here in quite a while. Papist in his self-defined concepts (or delusions) of the undivided Church is quickly backing himself into a corner, ISTM.
I guess you don't really know what backing one's self into a corner actually means. I think you think it means disagreeing with an Eastern Orthodox priest.
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« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2009, 10:24:29 AM »

Silliest thread we've had here in quite a while. Papist in his self-defined concepts (or delusions) of the undivided Church is quickly backing himself into a corner, ISTM.
I guess you don't really know what backing one's self into a corner actually means. I think you think it means disagreeing with an Eastern Orthodox priest.

If that were the case, I could think of a few people here who have disagreed with me.   Grin
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« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2009, 04:43:16 PM »



There is also the question of the sincerity of his baptism. Was he forgiven the killings of numerous people (his own family included) and worship of false gods if he did not think he did anything wrong, or if he purposely waited until the last moment of his life for baptism to "absolve" himself of all of it?


This is certainly not a matter for you to judge.  Do you make it your business to question the sincerity of other people's baptisms?

Perhaps we should all go read the Parable of the Prodigal Son.


I see that you and Irish Hermit are doing your very best to change the topic.

I have no problem with Constantine being venerated as a saint in your church. What I do have a problem with is Irish Hermit's vehement and hypocritical condemnation of our canonizing St. Thomas Aquinas when your own church has saints who not just theorized about executing heretics but actually carried it out.

I tire of these kinds of baseless attacks. Irish Hermit's agenda is clearly to antagonize Catholics on this forum, and I am ignoring him from now on. Sad that I have to do this with a priest.
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« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2009, 05:30:29 PM »



There is also the question of the sincerity of his baptism. Was he forgiven the killings of numerous people (his own family included) and worship of false gods if he did not think he did anything wrong, or if he purposely waited until the last moment of his life for baptism to "absolve" himself of all of it?


This is certainly not a matter for you to judge.  Do you make it your business to question the sincerity of other people's baptisms?

Perhaps we should all go read the Parable of the Prodigal Son.


I see that you and Irish Hermit are doing your very best to change the topic.

I have no problem with Constantine being venerated as a saint in your church. What I do have a problem with is Irish Hermit's vehement and hypocritical condemnation of our canonizing St. Thomas Aquinas when your own church has saints who not just theorized about executing heretics but actually carried it out.

I tire of these kinds of baseless attacks. Irish Hermit's agenda is clearly to antagonize Catholics on this forum, and I am ignoring him from now on. Sad that I have to do this with a priest.


Why! is it cosidered Father is antagonizing the catholic's,when he uses your own sources.unless you and other catholic's believe that the catholic sources he's using should be buried ,and never brought out in the light of day,because it's embarrassing....just a thought..........


 
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« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2009, 05:55:08 PM »

I see that you and Irish Hermit are doing your very best to change the topic.

Absolutely not.

Quote
I have no problem with Constantine being venerated as a saint in your church. What I do have a problem with is Irish Hermit's vehement and hypocritical condemnation of our canonizing St. Thomas Aquinas when your own church has saints who not just theorized about executing heretics but actually carried it out.

Constantine NEVER killed a soul when he became a Christian.  All the killing took place when  he was an unbaptized pagan.


Now, as I think I pointed out in an earlier posts, there is an immense difference between Christians who fall into violence from time to time thereby sinfully vitiating the teaching of Christ and Christians such as Thomas Aquinas and some of the Popes who institutionalise violence by incorporating it into the theology of the Roman Catholic Church.  The first type of Christians are sinners, the latter type are perverters of the Gospel.
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« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2009, 05:58:23 PM »


I have no problem with Constantine being venerated as a saint in your church.

Did you do the web search?   Did you find the Catholic parishes which are named after Saint Constantine?
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« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2009, 06:20:49 PM »

Last warning everyone, let's get back on topic or warnings will be given out and the thread locked.

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« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2009, 06:59:13 PM »

Last warning everyone, let's get back on topic or warnings will be given out and the thread locked.

-- Nebelpfade


Split it off.  It's obviously a different topic that has people interested.
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« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2009, 12:32:42 AM »

In the spirit of getting back on topic here is quote from a passage of St. Thomas' Summa Contra Gentiles. It seems to square pretty well with Eastern Orthodox theology.

"Now, in considering the divine substance, we should especially make use of the method of remotion. For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." (Summa Contra Gentiles, Chapter 14)

Seems like the EO idea of apophatic theology. Am I wrong?
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« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2009, 02:18:11 AM »

In the spirit of getting back on topic here is quote from a passage of St. Thomas' Summa Contra Gentiles. It seems to square pretty well with Eastern Orthodox theology.

"Now, in considering the divine substance, we should especially make use of the method of remotion. For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." (Summa Contra Gentiles, Chapter 14)

Seems like the EO idea of apophatic theology. Am I wrong?

No, sounds quite in line with apophatic theology indeed.  But there's also cataphatic, where we know Him by His divine energies.  The closest I find in St. Thomas Aquinas is one about the beautific vision.  Are there others?
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