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Papist
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« on: April 01, 2009, 03:22:34 PM » |
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Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum.
Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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Veniamin
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 03:25:07 PM » |
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Topic locked pending moderatorial review of where to move it.
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
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Veniamin
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 03:53:57 PM » |
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This seemed like the best place to move the topic. If the second question develops a discussion, let us know and we'll split and move that to the Liturgy forum.
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
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wynd
High Elder
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Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 501
Transfiguration
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2009, 06:09:21 PM » |
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Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum.
I know a bit of Ecclesiastical Latin. What helped me was looking side by side at the Bible or the texts of the Mass in Latin and English, and seeing how different words were used in different contexts. Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?
No idea on this one. |
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« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 06:09:45 PM by wynd »
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Αριστοκλής
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 08:41:44 AM » |
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I often recommend textkit.com for Greek. It also has many (more) Latin study aids, and an active forum. Many costly textbooks are available as pdf downloads as well. http://www.textkit.com/ |
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"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
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AMM
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM » |
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Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 08:56:37 AM » |
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Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum. This one is good for the Classicalized Ecclesiastical Latin that the Vatican has been using from the Renaissance. http://www.amazon.com/Primer-Ecclesiastical-Latin-John-Collins/dp/0813206677/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676513&sr=1-1http://www.amazon.com/Answer-Key-Primer-Ecclesiastical-Latin/dp/0813214696/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676661&sr=1-2For a dictionary. http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Ecclesiastical-Latin-Leo-Stelten/dp/1565631315/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676678&sr=1-3#http://www.amazon.com/Consecrated-Phrases-Theological-Dictionary-Expressions/dp/0814658806/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676812&sr=1-5#Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?
I've been to only two parishes and a private chapel, and they did. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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ialmisry
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009, 08:58:30 AM » |
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Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
Catholics like Pope St. Gregory? Just went to his liturgy yesterday. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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AMM
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009, 09:02:41 AM » |
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Papist alert, Papist alert.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 09:45:22 AM » |
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Papist alert, Papist alert.
What alert? He started the thread. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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Papist
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 09:56:27 AM » |
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Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
Catholics like Pope St. Gregory? Just went to his liturgy yesterday. Oh Pope St. Gregory. One of my all time favorites. |
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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Papist
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 10:00:17 AM » |
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Thank you so much. These look like great resources. I'll add this to the list of books already suggested. Thank you so much to every one who has helped here in this thread or via PM. Does anyone know if its a bad idea to use multiple resource books to learn Latin? Should I learn classical Latin first? Should I learn it along side ecclesial latin? |
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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AMM
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 10:28:04 AM » |
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Papist alert, Papist alert.
What alert? He started the thread. The somebody attended a festival of Papality alert! It's Papitoscious. |
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rwprof
Elder
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA now, Antiochian originally
Posts: 294
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 10:45:15 AM » |
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Italia est paeninsula.
Agricola puellam amat.
Qui, quae, quo, cui, cui, cui . . .
Two years of high school Latin forty years ago and that's all I remember.
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Mark (rwprof) passed into eternal life on Jan 7, 2010. May his memory be eternal!
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scamandrius
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 01:51:41 PM » |
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Italia est paeninsula.
Agricola puellam amat.
Qui, quae, quo, cui, cui, cui . . .
Two years of high school Latin forty years ago and that's all I remember.
It's actually qui, quae, quod, then cuius, cuius, cuius, then cui, cui, cui. You definitely need a refresher course.  |
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius
Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous
What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
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rwprof
Elder
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA now, Antiochian originally
Posts: 294
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 11:08:32 AM » |
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Italia est paeninsula.
Agricola puellam amat.
Qui, quae, quo, cui, cui, cui . . .
Two years of high school Latin forty years ago and that's all I remember.
It's actually qui, quae, quod, then cuius, cuius, cuius, then cui, cui, cui. You definitely need a refresher course. Well, I knew it was something like that ... |
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Mark (rwprof) passed into eternal life on Jan 7, 2010. May his memory be eternal!
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
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Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,666
May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 11:21:22 AM » |
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Italia est paeninsula.
Agricola puellam amat.
Qui, quae, quo, cui, cui, cui . . .
Two years of high school Latin forty years ago and that's all I remember. I'll never get "Arma virumque cano Troiae qui primus ab oris, Italiam ab fato profugus laviniaeque venit" out of my head... |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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_Seraphim_
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2009, 01:16:23 PM » |
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Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
Catholics like Pope St. Gregory? Just went to his liturgy yesterday. Papist alert, Papist alert.
Papist alert, Papist alert.
What alert? He started the thread. Papist alert, Papist alert.
What alert? He started the thread. The somebody attended a festival of Papality alert! It's Papitoscious. i.e. Gregory is one of several pre-schism popes who are still considered canonical saints in the Orthodox Church. i.e. before the Schism, half the Orthodox world spoke Latin… thus it is not an inherently un-Orthodox language (surely no language is).  |
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"Disputes merely about words must not be suffered to divide those who think alike." -St. Athanasius (†444)Pray for Orthodox Unity"Behold the light of our Agreed Statement on Christology" http://www.orthodoxunity.org/state04.html |
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ChristusDominus
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 04:09:05 PM » |
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Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
How brilliant |
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There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga
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ChristusDominus
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2009, 04:12:31 PM » |
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Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum.
Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?
There are a few prayers (not many) said in latin during the Western rite liturgy. That I do remember |
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There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga
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scamandrius
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2009, 04:15:24 PM » |
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Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
Non opus tibi est credendum ei. Existet, cum sententia tua aut sine. Fortasse putas te novum Tertullianum esse: Quid habet linguam Latinam cum Christianite? Nota, Linguam Latinam doceo et Orthodoxus Christianus sum. Haec non sunt adversa. |
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« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 04:15:53 PM by scamandrius »
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius
Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous
What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
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Cosmos
Member
Offline
Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 140
أيها الرب يسوع المسيح ابن الله, إرحمني أنا الخاطئ
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2009, 04:38:34 PM » |
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Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
Ridiculum!  Audi, vide, tace, si tu vis vivere in pace.  +Cosmos |
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Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, ἐλέησόν με!
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ChristusDominus
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2009, 04:50:17 PM » |
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Ridiculum! Audi, vide, tace, si tu vis vivere in pace. +Cosmos Dominus Vobiscum  |
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« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 04:51:55 PM by ChristusDominus »
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There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga
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AlexanderOfBergamo
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2009, 05:04:16 PM » |
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Non opus tibi est credendum ei. Existet, cum sententia tua aut sine. Fortasse putas te novum Tertullianum esse: Quid habet linguam Latinam cum Christianite?
Nota, Linguam Latinam doceo et Orthodoxus Christianus sum. Haec non sunt adversa.
Completely agree with you. I wonder if anyone but me (who am Italian and studied a bit of Latin years ago) understands what you wrote. Anyway, it's useful to have a Latin teacher on this forum! |
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"Also in the Catholic Church itself we take great care that we hold that which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and properly Catholic" (St. Vincent of Lérins, "The Commonitory")
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scamandrius
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2009, 08:11:57 PM » |
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Non opus tibi est credendum ei. Existet, cum sententia tua aut sine. Fortasse putas te novum Tertullianum esse: Quid habet linguam Latinam cum Christianite?
Nota, Linguam Latinam doceo et Orthodoxus Christianus sum. Haec non sunt adversa.
Completely agree with you. I wonder if anyone but me (who am Italian and studied a bit of Latin years ago) understands what you wrote. Anyway, it's useful to have a Latin teacher on this forum! Placet mihi putare me desideratum esse. Gratias multas maximas tibi ago! |
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius
Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous
What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
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Papist
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2009, 11:31:28 PM » |
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Ridiculum! Audi, vide, tace, si tu vis vivere in pace. +Cosmos Dominus Vobiscum Et cum spiritu tuo. |
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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ChristusDominus
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2009, 02:17:36 AM » |
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Ridiculum! Audi, vide, tace, si tu vis vivere in pace. +Cosmos Dominus Vobiscum Et cum spiritu tuo. is it tuo or tuum? I know tuo is Italian for yours. Either way, I understood it Anyway... is this where we say "oremus" ? |
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There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga
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AlexanderOfBergamo
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2009, 07:09:44 AM » |
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It's "et cum spiritu tuo". It's in the ablative case. And yes, "tuo" is also Italian for "your" or better "thy/thine" |
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"Also in the Catholic Church itself we take great care that we hold that which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and properly Catholic" (St. Vincent of Lérins, "The Commonitory")
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scamandrius
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« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2009, 08:55:22 AM » |
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Too true, Quinault. And learning Latin is also a good way to develop abstract thinking. If your kids need a Latin tutor, give me a call. Please tip your local Latin teachers! |
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius
Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous
What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
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ChristusDominus
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« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2009, 02:33:20 PM » |
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Too true, Quinault. And learning Latin is also a good way to develop abstract thinking. If your kids need a Latin tutor, give me a call. Please tip your local Latin teachers! Wow, that's great! do you also give lessons on Latin dance moves? |
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There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga
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scamandrius
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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2009, 08:03:30 PM » |
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^Besides being a Latin teacher, I am also a musician. Musicians DO NOT, under any circumstance, dance. It is a betrayal of our most fundamental "credo". So, no, I do not dance and I do not teach dance, let alone Latin dance movies.
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius
Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous
What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
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sohma_hatori
Earthbending Novice
High Elder
Offline
Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate: Orthodox Metropolis of Hong Kong and Southeast Asia
Posts: 524
The Blind Bandit
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« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2009, 04:41:20 AM » |
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Does anyone have a link of the DL of St. John Chrysostom in Latin, that is, it exists? |
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""Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.""
— Iroh- Avatar:The Last Airbender
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Alpo
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« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2009, 06:01:32 AM » |
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Does anyone have a link of the DL of St. John Chrysostom in Latin, that is, it exists? |
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« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 06:02:20 AM by Alpo »
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The great thing about this forum is that no matter what you say in your message you will always get a polite, informative reply. A reply that is really helpful.
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88Devin12
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« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2009, 08:23:38 AM » |
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That's pretty cool, it'd be neat if they could record & publish a Liturgy in Latin, possibly in the Byzantine style. (or if we know the pre-Schism Latin style)
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pensateomnia
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« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2009, 10:54:13 AM » |
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Fortasse putas te novum Tertullianum esse: Quid habet linguam Latinam cum Christianite?
LoL. Should turn that into a shirt and sell it at the next gathering of Romanides fans. |
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But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
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scamandrius
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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2009, 02:14:04 PM » |
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I like Romanides though his bias (which is actually, more or less, hatred) against Latin fathers is totally unfounded. Good idea on the T-shirt. I think, though, I'll be the only one wearing it. |
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius
Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous
What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
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