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Offline Papist

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Latin
« on: April 01, 2009, 03:22:34 PM »
Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum.
Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: Latin
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 03:25:07 PM »
Topic locked pending moderatorial review of where to move it.
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: Latin
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 03:53:57 PM »
This seemed like the best place to move the topic.  If the second question develops a discussion, let us know and we'll split and move that to the Liturgy forum.
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Offline wynd

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Re: Latin
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2009, 06:09:21 PM »
Quote from: Papist on April 01, 2009, 03:22:34 PM
Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum.

I know a bit of Ecclesiastical Latin. What helped me was looking side by side at the Bible or the texts of the Mass in Latin and English, and seeing how different words were used in different contexts.

Quote from: Papist on April 01, 2009, 03:22:34 PM
Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?

No idea on this one.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 06:09:45 PM by wynd »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Latin
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 08:41:44 AM »
I often recommend textkit.com for Greek. It also has many (more) Latin study aids, and an active forum. Many costly textbooks are available as pdf downloads as well.

http://www.textkit.com/
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Offline AMM

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Re: Latin
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM »
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Latin
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 08:56:37 AM »
Quote from: Papist on April 01, 2009, 03:22:34 PM
Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum.
This one is good for the Classicalized Ecclesiastical Latin that the Vatican has been using from the Renaissance.
http://www.amazon.com/Primer-Ecclesiastical-Latin-John-Collins/dp/0813206677/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676513&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Answer-Key-Primer-Ecclesiastical-Latin/dp/0813214696/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676661&sr=1-2
For a dictionary.
http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Ecclesiastical-Latin-Leo-Stelten/dp/1565631315/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676678&sr=1-3#
http://www.amazon.com/Consecrated-Phrases-Theological-Dictionary-Expressions/dp/0814658806/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676812&sr=1-5#

Quote
Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?
I've been to only two parishes and a private chapel, and they did.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Latin
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009, 08:58:30 AM »
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.

Catholics like Pope St. Gregory?  Just went to his liturgy yesterday.
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Offline AMM

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Re: Latin
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009, 09:02:41 AM »
Papist alert, Papist alert.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Latin
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 09:45:22 AM »
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 09:02:41 AM
Papist alert, Papist alert.
What alert?  He started the thread.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Latin
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 09:56:27 AM »
Quote from: ialmisry on April 02, 2009, 08:58:30 AM
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.

Catholics like Pope St. Gregory?  Just went to his liturgy yesterday.
Oh Pope St. Gregory. One of my all time favorites.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Latin
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 10:00:17 AM »
Quote from: ialmisry on April 02, 2009, 08:56:37 AM
Quote from: Papist on April 01, 2009, 03:22:34 PM
Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum.
This one is good for the Classicalized Ecclesiastical Latin that the Vatican has been using from the Renaissance.
http://www.amazon.com/Primer-Ecclesiastical-Latin-John-Collins/dp/0813206677/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676513&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Answer-Key-Primer-Ecclesiastical-Latin/dp/0813214696/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676661&sr=1-2
For a dictionary.
http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Ecclesiastical-Latin-Leo-Stelten/dp/1565631315/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676678&sr=1-3#
http://www.amazon.com/Consecrated-Phrases-Theological-Dictionary-Expressions/dp/0814658806/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238676812&sr=1-5#

Quote
Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?
I've been to only two parishes and a private chapel, and they did.
Thank you so much. These look like great resources. I'll add this to the list of books already suggested. Thank you so much to every one who has helped here in this thread or via PM.
Does anyone know if its a bad idea to use multiple resource books to learn Latin? Should I learn classical Latin first? Should I learn it along side ecclesial latin?
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Offline AMM

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Re: Latin
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 10:28:04 AM »
Quote from: ialmisry on April 02, 2009, 09:45:22 AM
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 09:02:41 AM
Papist alert, Papist alert.
What alert?  He started the thread.

The somebody attended a festival of Papality alert!  It's Papitoscious.
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Offline rwprof

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Re: Latin
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 10:45:15 AM »
Italia est paeninsula.
Agricola puellam amat.
Qui, quae, quo, cui, cui, cui . . .

Two years of high school Latin forty years ago and that's all I remember.


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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Latin
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 01:51:41 PM »
Quote from: rwprof on April 02, 2009, 10:45:15 AM
Italia est paeninsula.
Agricola puellam amat.
Qui, quae, quo, cui, cui, cui . . .

Two years of high school Latin forty years ago and that's all I remember.

It's actually qui, quae, quod, then cuius, cuius, cuius, then cui, cui, cui.  You definitely need a refresher course.  :D
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Offline rwprof

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Re: Latin
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 11:08:32 AM »
Quote from: scamandrius on April 02, 2009, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: rwprof on April 02, 2009, 10:45:15 AM
Italia est paeninsula.
Agricola puellam amat.
Qui, quae, quo, cui, cui, cui . . .

Two years of high school Latin forty years ago and that's all I remember.

It's actually qui, quae, quod, then cuius, cuius, cuius, then cui, cui, cui.  You definitely need a refresher course.  :D

Well, I knew it was something like that ...


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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Latin
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 11:21:22 AM »
Quote from: rwprof on April 02, 2009, 10:45:15 AM
Italia est paeninsula.
Agricola puellam amat.
Qui, quae, quo, cui, cui, cui . . .

Two years of high school Latin forty years ago and that's all I remember.

I'll never get "Arma virumque cano Troiae qui primus ab oris, Italiam ab fato profugus laviniaeque venit" out of my head...
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Latin
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2009, 12:17:01 PM »
I guess this link appeared on this site a while ago, might be useful:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/omnibus.html
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Offline _Seraphim_

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Re: Latin
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2009, 01:16:23 PM »
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.

Quote from: ialmisry on April 02, 2009, 08:58:30 AM
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.

Catholics like Pope St. Gregory?  Just went to his liturgy yesterday.

Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 09:02:41 AM
Papist alert, Papist alert.

Quote from: ialmisry on April 02, 2009, 09:45:22 AM
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 09:02:41 AM
Papist alert, Papist alert.
What alert?  He started the thread.

Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 10:28:04 AM
Quote from: ialmisry on April 02, 2009, 09:45:22 AM
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 09:02:41 AM
Papist alert, Papist alert.
What alert?  He started the thread.

The somebody attended a festival of Papality alert!  It's Papitoscious.


i.e. Gregory is one of several pre-schism popes who are still considered canonical saints in the Orthodox Church.

i.e. before the Schism, half the Orthodox world spoke Latin… thus it is not an inherently un-Orthodox language (surely no language is).

 :)
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Latin
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 04:09:05 PM »
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.
How brilliant
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Latin
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2009, 04:12:31 PM »
Quote from: Papist on April 01, 2009, 03:22:34 PM
Two questions.
First, my sister, a few friends of mine, and my self would really like to learn latin, both Classical and Ecclesial. That being said, does anyone know a good way to go about doing this? I know that there are a couple of latin experts on this forum.
Second, do Western Rite Orthodox Churches use latin at all in their masses or prayers?
There are a few prayers (not many) said in latin during the Western rite liturgy. That I do remember
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Latin
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2009, 04:15:24 PM »
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.

Non opus tibi est credendum ei.  Existet, cum sententia tua aut sine.  Fortasse putas te novum Tertullianum esse:  Quid habet linguam Latinam cum Christianite?

Nota, Linguam Latinam doceo et Orthodoxus Christianus sum.  Haec non sunt adversa.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 04:15:53 PM by scamandrius »
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Offline Cosmos

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Re: Latin
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2009, 04:38:34 PM »
Quote from: AMM on April 02, 2009, 08:49:59 AM
Latin is spoken by Catholics, therefore I don't believe in it.

Ridiculum!  ;D

Audi, vide, tace, si tu vis vivere in pace.  ;)

+Cosmos
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Latin
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2009, 04:50:17 PM »
Quote from: Cosmos on May 15, 2009, 04:38:34 PM



Ridiculum!  ;D

Audi, vide, tace, si tu vis vivere in pace.  ;)

+Cosmos
Dominus Vobiscum :angel:
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 04:51:55 PM by ChristusDominus »
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Offline AlexanderOfBergamo

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Re: Latin
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2009, 05:04:16 PM »
Quote
Non opus tibi est credendum ei.  Existet, cum sententia tua aut sine.  Fortasse putas te novum Tertullianum esse:  Quid habet linguam Latinam cum Christianite?

Nota, Linguam Latinam doceo et Orthodoxus Christianus sum.  Haec non sunt adversa.

Completely agree with you. I wonder if anyone but me (who am Italian and studied a bit of Latin years ago) understands what you wrote. Anyway, it's useful to have a Latin teacher on this forum!
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Latin
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2009, 08:11:57 PM »
Quote from: AlexanderOfBergamo on May 15, 2009, 05:04:16 PM
Quote
Non opus tibi est credendum ei.  Existet, cum sententia tua aut sine.  Fortasse putas te novum Tertullianum esse:  Quid habet linguam Latinam cum Christianite?

Nota, Linguam Latinam doceo et Orthodoxus Christianus sum.  Haec non sunt adversa.

Completely agree with you. I wonder if anyone but me (who am Italian and studied a bit of Latin years ago) understands what you wrote. Anyway, it's useful to have a Latin teacher on this forum!

Placet mihi putare me desideratum esse.  Gratias multas maximas tibi ago!
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Offline Papist

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Re: Latin
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2009, 11:31:28 PM »
Quote from: ChristusDominus on May 15, 2009, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: Cosmos on May 15, 2009, 04:38:34 PM



Ridiculum!  ;D

Audi, vide, tace, si tu vis vivere in pace.  ;)

+Cosmos
Dominus Vobiscum :angel:
Et cum spiritu tuo.
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Offline Quinault

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Re: Latin
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2009, 12:44:12 AM »
I am going to be teaching Latin to my kids as they grow older it is a great tool for spelling and etymology.
http://www.fun-with-words.com/etymology.html
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Latin
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2009, 02:17:36 AM »
Quote from: Papist on May 15, 2009, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: ChristusDominus on May 15, 2009, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: Cosmos on May 15, 2009, 04:38:34 PM



Ridiculum!  ;D

Audi, vide, tace, si tu vis vivere in pace.  ;)

+Cosmos
Dominus Vobiscum :angel:
Et cum spiritu tuo.
is it tuo or tuum? I know tuo is Italian for yours. Either way, I understood it :) Anyway... is this where we say "oremus" ? :angel:
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Offline AlexanderOfBergamo

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Re: Latin
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2009, 07:09:44 AM »
It's "et cum spiritu tuo". It's in the ablative case.  ;)

And yes, "tuo" is also Italian for "your" or better "thy/thine"
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Latin
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2009, 08:55:22 AM »
Quote from: Quinault on May 16, 2009, 12:44:12 AM
I am going to be teaching Latin to my kids as they grow older it is a great tool for spelling and etymology.
http://www.fun-with-words.com/etymology.html


Too true, Quinault.  And learning Latin is also a good way to develop abstract thinking.  If your kids need a Latin tutor, give me a call. 

Please tip your local Latin teachers!   ;D
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Latin
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2009, 02:33:20 PM »
Quote from: scamandrius on May 16, 2009, 08:55:22 AM
Quote from: Quinault on May 16, 2009, 12:44:12 AM
I am going to be teaching Latin to my kids as they grow older it is a great tool for spelling and etymology.
http://www.fun-with-words.com/etymology.html


Too true, Quinault.  And learning Latin is also a good way to develop abstract thinking.  If your kids need a Latin tutor, give me a call. 

Please tip your local Latin teachers!   ;D
Wow, that's great! do you also give lessons on Latin dance moves?  ;D
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Latin
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2009, 08:03:30 PM »
^Besides being a Latin teacher, I am also a musician.  Musicians DO NOT, under any circumstance, dance.  It is a betrayal of our most fundamental "credo".  So, no, I do not dance and I do not teach dance, let alone Latin dance movies.
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Offline sohma_hatori

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Re: Latin
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2009, 04:41:20 AM »
Does anyone have a link of the DL of St. John Chrysostom in Latin, that is, it exists?  :)
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Latin
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2009, 06:01:32 AM »
Quote from: sohma_hatori on August 12, 2009, 04:41:20 AM
Does anyone have a link of the DL of St. John Chrysostom in Latin, that is, it exists?  :)

Liturgia Sci. Patris nri. Joannis Chrysostomi
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 06:02:20 AM by Alpo »
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Latin
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2009, 08:23:38 AM »
That's pretty cool, it'd be neat if they could record & publish a Liturgy in Latin, possibly in the Byzantine style. (or if we know the pre-Schism Latin style)
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Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Latin
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2009, 10:54:13 AM »
Quote from: scamandrius on May 15, 2009, 04:15:24 PM
Fortasse putas te novum Tertullianum esse:  Quid habet linguam Latinam cum Christianite?

LoL. Should turn that into a shirt and sell it at the next gathering of Romanides fans.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Latin
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2009, 02:14:04 PM »
I like Romanides though his bias (which is actually, more or less, hatred) against Latin fathers is totally unfounded. 

Good idea on the T-shirt.  I think, though, I'll be the only one wearing it. ;D
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