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Offline Rosehip

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If...
« on: March 24, 2009, 10:44:28 PM »
If the Orthodox Church, like the Amish, chasidic jews etc., would demand a strict dress code of all its members to be worn at all times, would you remain Orthodox?
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: If...
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 10:50:03 PM »
Love never demands.  :)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 10:50:16 PM by GabrieltheCelt »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: If...
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 10:54:29 PM »
If the Orthodox Church, like the Amish, chasidic jews etc., would demand a strict dress code of all its members to be worn at all times, would you remain Orthodox?
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: If...
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2009, 11:01:15 PM »
Yes, but if the Church made  a decision  to make such a requirement, out of "love" for its members...and if the Church is what we say it is, would it not be our joy to be obedient?
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: If...
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2009, 11:20:32 PM »
But doesn't the Holy Tradition already ask us to attire ourselves modestly?  Some will and some will not.  IME, it is a matter between them, Christ, and their spiritual father.  :-\
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: If...
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 11:53:42 PM »
I'm happy that there isn't an Orthodox Abercrombie and that the Church (in theory) focuses on the heart. 

Offline Fr. George

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Re: If...
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 06:57:14 AM »
Probably would, glad that it doesn't.
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: If...
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 07:33:39 AM »
I believe I would not be happy, because that would mean to me that this church is no longer Orthodox. Like others said, the Church of our Lord focuses on the heart, on what's inside (Matt. 15:1-20).
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Offline serb1389

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Re: If...
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2009, 10:19:44 AM »
I agree with Cleveland, I would do it but it would not be the right thing.  It would mean that the homeless, the poor, the destitute and marginalized would not be able to come into church because of the dress code, and that would no longer make us a church of christ, but a social club with a priest. 
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Offline si2008

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Re: If...
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 10:34:57 AM »
I would stay, but one of the reasons I became Orthodox is because I think we preach that Christ can meet any of us in any state we're in.  Can you imagine Christ demanding that the Samaritan woman put on a more modest outfit?  No.  He gently leads her back to God's love, and that's the starting point for any changes in her life based on her free will to love Him back.  Modesty starts on the inside.

That being said, I do wish that in America women weren't discouraged from wearing more modest clothing.  I don't mean bouffants and pinafores like in that cult, just, you know, not belly revealing jeans and exposed bra straps and stuff.  Even a pregnant lady has trouble looking modest these days.

Offline Heorhij

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Re: If...
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 10:43:07 AM »
I would stay, but one of the reasons I became Orthodox is because I think we preach that Christ can meet any of us in any state we're in.  Can you imagine Christ demanding that the Samaritan woman put on a more modest outfit?  No.  He gently leads her back to God's love, and that's the starting point for any changes in her life based on her free will to love Him back.  Modesty starts on the inside.

That being said, I do wish that in America women weren't discouraged from wearing more modest clothing.  I don't mean bouffants and pinafores like in that cult, just, you know, not belly revealing jeans and exposed bra straps and stuff.  Even a pregnant lady has trouble looking modest these days.

I would much rather see ladies wearing belly button-showing jeans and exposed bra straps than those horrible, tasteless, ugly "parade"/pompous "high class" dresses and hats I see occasionally on "church women" in the USA.
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: If...
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 10:47:54 AM »
Quote
I agree with Cleveland, I would do it but it would not be the right thing.  It would mean that the homeless, the poor, the destitute and marginalized would not be able to come into church because of the dress code, and that would no longer make us a church of christ, but a social club with a priest. 



Thank you for all of your answers so far. They've been really helpful to me, personally. Here serb1389 says a dress code would make us a "social club with a priest". This is something I've heard from many Orthodox people. However, those groups that do have a certain form of distinctive dress for their members would say they do so as an act of brotherhood and obedience. Sometimes I wonder to what extent the idea of "christian brotherhood" affects Orthodox practice? Just wondering, that's all.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 10:55:43 AM by Rosehip »
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Rosehip

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Re: If...
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 10:51:17 AM »
I would stay, but one of the reasons I became Orthodox is because I think we preach that Christ can meet any of us in any state we're in.  Can you imagine Christ demanding that the Samaritan woman put on a more modest outfit?  No.  He gently leads her back to God's love, and that's the starting point for any changes in her life based on her free will to love Him back.  Modesty starts on the inside.

That being said, I do wish that in America women weren't discouraged from wearing more modest clothing.  I don't mean bouffants and pinafores like in that cult, just, you know, not belly revealing jeans and exposed bra straps and stuff.  Even a pregnant lady has trouble looking modest these days.

I would much rather see ladies wearing belly button-showing jeans and exposed bra straps than those horrible, tasteless, ugly "parade"/pompous "high class" dresses and hats I see occasionally on "church women" in the USA.

 What would you consider to be suitable "modest" attire for women to wear to church-aside from these two extremes?
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline si2008

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Re: If...
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 10:55:06 AM »
I would stay, but one of the reasons I became Orthodox is because I think we preach that Christ can meet any of us in any state we're in.  Can you imagine Christ demanding that the Samaritan woman put on a more modest outfit?  No.  He gently leads her back to God's love, and that's the starting point for any changes in her life based on her free will to love Him back.  Modesty starts on the inside.

That being said, I do wish that in America women weren't discouraged from wearing more modest clothing.  I don't mean bouffants and pinafores like in that cult, just, you know, not belly revealing jeans and exposed bra straps and stuff.  Even a pregnant lady has trouble looking modest these days.

I would much rather see ladies wearing belly button-showing jeans and exposed bra straps than those horrible, tasteless, ugly "parade"/pompous "high class" dresses and hats I see occasionally on "church women" in the USA.

Me too!  I was just commenting on my own circumstances here in the suburbs of Chicago.  I'm not advocating any kind of extreme, just an overall return to normal.  I had a Muslim friend in high school who I thought was very elegant and tasteful, and she just wore nice loose blouses and flowy pants.  Nothing fancy, but she wasn't wearing a burqa either.  I just don't like the excess of women's current fashions.

Offline Heorhij

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Re: If...
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 10:59:10 AM »
I would stay, but one of the reasons I became Orthodox is because I think we preach that Christ can meet any of us in any state we're in.  Can you imagine Christ demanding that the Samaritan woman put on a more modest outfit?  No.  He gently leads her back to God's love, and that's the starting point for any changes in her life based on her free will to love Him back.  Modesty starts on the inside.

That being said, I do wish that in America women weren't discouraged from wearing more modest clothing.  I don't mean bouffants and pinafores like in that cult, just, you know, not belly revealing jeans and exposed bra straps and stuff.  Even a pregnant lady has trouble looking modest these days.

I would much rather see ladies wearing belly button-showing jeans and exposed bra straps than those horrible, tasteless, ugly "parade"/pompous "high class" dresses and hats I see occasionally on "church women" in the USA.

 What would you consider to be suitable "modest" attire for women to wear to church-aside from these two extremes?

Normal elegant, beautiful, tasteful feminine dress, the kind my wife always wears to church!  :)
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: If...
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 01:08:43 PM »
If the Orthodox Church, like the Amish, chasidic jews etc., would demand a strict dress code of all its members to be worn at all times, would you remain Orthodox?

If a person was prepared to separate themselves from Christ for the sake of fashion, perhaps they weren't all that serious about Him in the first place.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: If...
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 01:13:36 PM »
I agree with Cleveland, I would do it but it would not be the right thing.  It would mean that the homeless, the poor, the destitute and marginalized would not be able to come into church because of the dress code, and that would no longer make us a church of christ, but a social club with a priest.  

I'm sure that if we did have some sort of distinctive dress, that folks like you in parishes all over would donate articles to be given to the poor, destitute, homeless, and marginalized... Maybe even the octomom's, too!
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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Offline witega

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Re: If...
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2009, 02:11:41 PM »
If the Orthodox Church, like the Amish, chasidic jews etc., would demand a strict dress code of all its members to be worn at all times, would you remain Orthodox?

If a person was prepared to separate themselves from Christ for the sake of fashion, perhaps they weren't all that serious about Him in the first place.

In theory I agree with you. But the reality is that it has been 2000 years and the Church has not seen fit to create a dress code. Meaning that if "the Church" (presumably meaning a general council or a local practice that caught on like wildfire with bishops everywhere) suddenly decided to impose such a practice it would be in contradistinction to the actual Tradition of the Chuch and open to a great deal of questioning about imposing the 'traditions of men' over the Tradition of God.

Or to put it another way, "If the Church would demand castration of all male members, would you remain Orthodox." In theory, yes, since as someone already put it so well "where else would we go"--but in reality, the actual Church would never make such a ruling. And any body that did make such a ruling would clearly be a pseudo-Church.
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