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Author Topic: Should Haile Selassie be Canonized?  (Read 26273 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2010, 06:44:28 PM »

I'm not even sure what exactly leads to an official glorification of a member of a deceased member of the Church. So I don't know that I know enough to answer this question for sure. However, on the basis of his faithfulness to the Church and his incredible contributions to her mission, I would advocate for his veneration.
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« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2010, 05:20:17 PM »

In reading the posts in this topic I have found myself quite dismayed by statements made about His Late Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie.  It would seem there is much belittling and misinformation still out there about the Emperor thanks largely to the years of negative propoganda of the brutal marxist Derg regime that overthrew and murdered him.  Let me try to correct some misperceptions.

Firstly, the official opinion of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church and the entire Oriental Orthodox communion about the Emperor is very clear.  His Imperial Majesty was accorded the title of Defender of the Faith jointly by all the Patriarchs of the Oriental Orthodox Commionion during their last council in Addis Ababa.  They continue to accord him that title today.  His Holiness Patriarch Abune Paulos issued a statement on November 5, 2000 (Gregorian Calandar) on the very day of the Emperor's reburial ceremony in which he clearly stated that the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church regards Emperor Haile Selassie as worthy of the Churches highest honors in the conduct of his funeral and in observance of his memory.  The Holy Synod also issued a statement read out at the reburial ceremony by the then general secretary of the Synod, Archbishop Abune Gerima, that enumerated many of the immense contributions that the Emperor had made towards the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.  Even the exiled synod which agrees about little with Patriarch Abune Paulos, agrees with him and the Addis Ababa synod on these points.  Every Ethiopian monarch from St. Lallibella onwards had pleaded with Alexandria to allow for native bishops to preside over the Ethiopian church.  For centuries, a single Coptic bishop was responsible for ordaining all the priests and deacons and blessing every new church built in a large Empire populated by a people whose language he could not speak.  Emperor Haile Selassie was not only the monarch who was able to  not only achieve this goal, but also was able to canonically achieve self governmment fo the church and it's own Patriarch in legitimate succession to the See of St. Mark of Alexandria.  His Majesty built many important churches in Ethiopia, inlcuding the new Cathedral of St. Mary of Zion at Axum, Holy Trintiy Cathedral in Addis Ababa, and St. Tekle Haimanot's Church at the Debre Libanos Monastery, among many others.  He  supported a mustitude of others.  In every public and private speech or letter he ever gave, His Majesty humbled himself and aknowledged the greatness of his creator.  He rejected clearly any and all efforts to label him as divine, and in fact sent priests (including the late Archbishop Abune Yishaq) to the Carribean  region to spread the Orthodox Tewahido faith.   As stated above he convened the one and only converence of all the Patriarchs of the Oriental Orthodox Churches in Addis Ababa in order to strengthen them further through unity.  He also intervened on behalf of Christians under duress, such as the Ecumenical Patriarchate at Constantinople, and the Russian and Serbian Orthodox Churches in the communist era.  That is why when His Holiness the current Patriarch of Constantinople walked into Holy Trinity Cathedral in Addis Ababa with Patriarch Abune Paulos, one of the fist things he did was to kneel before the Emperor's tomb and kiss it. Pope Shenuda III of the Coptic Church also in his frst act upon his visit to Ethiopia was to place a wreath on the Emperor's tomb and to pray over it.    

In his personal life, His Majesty was irreproachable in the conduct of his Christian practice.   Ethiopians generally knew that his last stop before leaving the country on a visit abroad, and his first stop upon his return was alsways to pray at a Church (usually Holy Trinity Cathedral).  He attended church every sunday (usually at the church of St. Mark when he lived at the Guenete Leul Palace, and after he donated that home to the University and moved to the Jubilee Palace, at the Church of St. Stephen).  When he went into exile during the Italian occupation in1936, he made a pledge at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem, that if Ethiopian independence was restored, when he heard any final legal appeald in his Supreme Court he would do so standing in honor of Christ rather than sitting on his throne.  After he returned to power, he always stood when listening to court cases presented before him, up to the very end of his reign in his 80's, no mattter ho long the hearing was.  He also attended services at every church in Addis Ababa or any other town on it's annual feast day no matter what day it was if he was in the city.  Facts that are not generally known include the fact that His Majesty took Holy Communion twice a month on the days dedicated to the Savior of the World (Medhane Alem) and Our Lady Covenant of Mercy (Kidane Meheret).  He did this quietly without fanfare at the small Kidane Meheret church on the grounds of the old Menelik Imperial Palace.  During the many andlong fasts of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church, His Majesty not only stringently observed the fast, but refused to sleep on his bed.  He would instead sleep on a sheet on the floor of his room.

There is no current effort in the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church for his canonization.  It is true that many Ethiopian monarchs, and non-Royalty are probably deserving of sainthood, and have been canonized, and others hav not been so honored.  It is for the Synod to decide if the Emperor is deserving of canonization, but let us not belittle his contributions and his devout Christian life.
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« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2010, 02:14:00 AM »

In reading the posts in this topic I have found myself quite dismayed by statements made about His Late Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie.  It would seem there is much belittling and misinformation still out there about the Emperor thanks largely to the years of negative propoganda of the brutal marxist Derg regime that overthrew and murdered him.  Let me try to correct some misperceptions.

Firstly, the official opinion of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church and the entire Oriental Orthodox communion about the Emperor is very clear.  His Imperial Majesty was accorded the title of Defender of the Faith jointly by all the Patriarchs of the Oriental Orthodox Commionion during their last council in Addis Ababa.  They continue to accord him that title today.  His Holiness Patriarch Abune Paulos issued a statement on November 5, 2000 (Gregorian Calandar) on the very day of the Emperor's reburial ceremony in which he clearly stated that the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church regards Emperor Haile Selassie as worthy of the Churches highest honors in the conduct of his funeral and in observance of his memory.  The Holy Synod also issued a statement read out at the reburial ceremony by the then general secretary of the Synod, Archbishop Abune Gerima, that enumerated many of the immense contributions that the Emperor had made towards the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.  Even the exiled synod which agrees about little with Patriarch Abune Paulos, agrees with him and the Addis Ababa synod on these points.  Every Ethiopian monarch from St. Lallibella onwards had pleaded with Alexandria to allow for native bishops to preside over the Ethiopian church.  For centuries, a single Coptic bishop was responsible for ordaining all the priests and deacons and blessing every new church built in a large Empire populated by a people whose language he could not speak.  Emperor Haile Selassie was not only the monarch who was able to  not only achieve this goal, but also was able to canonically achieve self governmment fo the church and it's own Patriarch in legitimate succession to the See of St. Mark of Alexandria.  His Majesty built many important churches in Ethiopia, inlcuding the new Cathedral of St. Mary of Zion at Axum, Holy Trintiy Cathedral in Addis Ababa, and St. Tekle Haimanot's Church at the Debre Libanos Monastery, among many others.  He  supported a mustitude of others.  In every public and private speech or letter he ever gave, His Majesty humbled himself and aknowledged the greatness of his creator.  He rejected clearly any and all efforts to label him as divine, and in fact sent priests (including the late Archbishop Abune Yishaq) to the Carribean  region to spread the Orthodox Tewahido faith.   As stated above he convened the one and only converence of all the Patriarchs of the Oriental Orthodox Churches in Addis Ababa in order to strengthen them further through unity.  He also intervened on behalf of Christians under duress, such as the Ecumenical Patriarchate at Constantinople, and the Russian and Serbian Orthodox Churches in the communist era.  That is why when His Holiness the current Patriarch of Constantinople walked into Holy Trinity Cathedral in Addis Ababa with Patriarch Abune Paulos, one of the fist things he did was to kneel before the Emperor's tomb and kiss it. Pope Shenuda III of the Coptic Church also in his frst act upon his visit to Ethiopia was to place a wreath on the Emperor's tomb and to pray over it.    

In his personal life, His Majesty was irreproachable in the conduct of his Christian practice.   Ethiopians generally knew that his last stop before leaving the country on a visit abroad, and his first stop upon his return was alsways to pray at a Church (usually Holy Trinity Cathedral).  He attended church every sunday (usually at the church of St. Mark when he lived at the Guenete Leul Palace, and after he donated that home to the University and moved to the Jubilee Palace, at the Church of St. Stephen).  When he went into exile during the Italian occupation in1936, he made a pledge at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem, that if Ethiopian independence was restored, when he heard any final legal appeald in his Supreme Court he would do so standing in honor of Christ rather than sitting on his throne.  After he returned to power, he always stood when listening to court cases presented before him, up to the very end of his reign in his 80's, no mattter ho long the hearing was.  He also attended services at every church in Addis Ababa or any other town on it's annual feast day no matter what day it was if he was in the city.  Facts that are not generally known include the fact that His Majesty took Holy Communion twice a month on the days dedicated to the Savior of the World (Medhane Alem) and Our Lady Covenant of Mercy (Kidane Meheret).  He did this quietly without fanfare at the small Kidane Meheret church on the grounds of the old Menelik Imperial Palace.  During the many andlong fasts of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church, His Majesty not only stringently observed the fast, but refused to sleep on his bed.  He would instead sleep on a sheet on the floor of his room.

There is no current effort in the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church for his canonization.  It is true that many Ethiopian monarchs, and non-Royalty are probably deserving of sainthood, and have been canonized, and others hav not been so honored.  It is for the Synod to decide if the Emperor is deserving of canonization, but let us not belittle his contributions and his devout Christian life.

Thank you, Tewahido Deacon, for speaking the truth about His Majesty. It is truly sad that some worship H.I.M. in idolatry while others slander his noble Christian character. I know what a great man he was, and I would not be Orthodox today if not for the teachings and example of Emperor Haile Selassie I. He will always be a Saint in my eyes!


Selam
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« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2010, 05:31:27 AM »

Im all for His Canonization....    
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« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2010, 03:57:44 AM »

Peace...

In many cases, there are no attacks on H.I.M.'s personal devotions, but the issue at hand is the revered and venerable notions of the Orthodox [Tewahido/Coptic] Church. As we stated in another post, hardly anyone denies the speech, efforts and conduct of H.I.M. in the Christian manner. 

It was during his imperial reign that H.H. Baba Yasob II and the Saint/Pope H.H. Baba Kyrillos VI granted autonomy to the EOTC; the re-gaining of two Chapels in the Holy Sepulchre/Dier al-Sultan and the conference of the Oriental/Non-Chalcedonian Churches (to mention a few), but why is it that first and foremost, the saintly archbishops Abune Petros and Abune Tewofilos are not nominated? 

The Abode of the Godhead, the Church and Her Holy Mysteries has blessed and motivated Her children-the ones who have remained under Her wings of grace; therefore, I don't discredit any of Her seed, but I know without the foundational support of the Church, such credit-worthy missions and efforts would not have taken place.

I had more than one opportunity to speak with the late Arcbishop Abune Yeshaq and he related to me his upmost respect for the monarchy, but nothing to be compared to the respect for his father, friend and brother: His Holiness Abune Tewofilos...


On the other hand, I commend one another for having such respect for a person that they vouch for his or her canonization; it's honorable and may we be gifted with such love to hope for one another's sainthood.

Thank you and peace to all,

haile amanuel
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« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2010, 10:14:46 AM »

My father was in Ethiopia for two years during the reign of H.I.M. Haile Selassie.  Ethiopia was a jewel in the African crown.  My grandfather on the American side was the Military Attache for the American Embassy there.  I believe that the comparison of H.I.M. to the Tsar Martyr is a good one, and I would fully support his canonization in the Ethiopian Church.  I also pray that one day the rift between the Copts and the Orthodox will be healed, since both the Ethiopian and Egyptian Churches are so close to my heart.
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« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2010, 02:01:48 PM »

Peace to you, Punch...

Again, if a person feels this way about Haile Selassie I, it is entitled to he or she.  God bless you for your empathetic feelings toward that soul. 

Otherwise, in 2007, there were official resolutions issued when His Holiness Aba Pawlos visited Egypt, concerning the renewed relationship between the Churches.  In 2008, His Holiness Pope Shenouda III reciprocated this by visiting Ethiopia-compounding the resolution and loving spirit once cherished by the Churches, who are really one through Christ and His servants.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200707200965.html

http://www.amcoptic.com/n2008/pope-shenouda-visit-ethiopia-2008.htm

May the Lord Christ have mercy upon us all.

haile amanuel
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« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2010, 07:01:08 PM »

I also pray that one day the rift between the Copts and the Orthodox will be healed,

Unless you're convinced that the Orientals are not orthodox, then referring exclusively to your own church as orthodox and not the Orientals probably would not be helpful to that aim.
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« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2010, 07:31:59 PM »

Absolutely. He deserves canonisation more than most of the Russian Tsars who have been canonised.
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« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2010, 09:19:25 PM »

I also pray that one day the rift between the Copts and the Orthodox will be healed,

Unless you're convinced that the Orientals are not orthodox, then referring exclusively to your own church as orthodox and not the Orientals probably would not be helpful to that aim.

I am referring to the "official" view of the Orthodox regarding the Orientals.  How I refer to them has nothing to do with the canonical status of one Church or the other.  If those that "correctly teach" regard seven councils, then those that do not regard those councils cannot be "correctly teaching".  For my part, I find myself far more in agreement with the Orientals than I do with most modernist "Orthodox" jurisdictions.  I seriously considered joining the Coptic Church in my area when I became disenchanted with the Antiochians.  I did not because I was told in a dream that I would find my Salvation with the Russians.  In addition, when I joined the Orthodox Church, I renounced all heresies, including the Monophysite heresy.  So yes, I would officially consider Churches holding this heresy to be not Orthodox.  The problem that I have had all these years is that after discussion the natures of Christ with several pious Coptics, I am not so sure that I believe any different than they do, nor do I believe that they are totally guilty of that which they have been accused.  But in the long run, what I think has no bearing on the big picture of Orthodox / Oriental relations.
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« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2010, 12:10:15 AM »

I also pray that one day the rift between the Copts and the Orthodox will be healed,

Unless you're convinced that the Orientals are not orthodox, then referring exclusively to your own church as orthodox and not the Orientals probably would not be helpful to that aim.

I am referring to the "official" view of the Orthodox regarding the Orientals.  How I refer to them has nothing to do with the canonical status of one Church or the other.  If those that "correctly teach" regard seven councils, then those that do not regard those councils cannot be "correctly teaching".  For my part, I find myself far more in agreement with the Orientals than I do with most modernist "Orthodox" jurisdictions.  I seriously considered joining the Coptic Church in my area when I became disenchanted with the Antiochians.  I did not because I was told in a dream that I would find my Salvation with the Russians.  In addition, when I joined the Orthodox Church, I renounced all heresies, including the Monophysite heresy.  So yes, I would officially consider Churches holding this heresy to be not Orthodox.  The problem that I have had all these years is that after discussion the natures of Christ with several pious Coptics, I am not so sure that I believe any different than they do, nor do I believe that they are totally guilty of that which they have been accused.  But in the long run, what I think has no bearing on the big picture of Orthodox / Oriental relations.

Our Churches (Non-Chalcedonian/OO) thoroughly reject monophysitism, and we anathematize Eutyches. We accept the Christology that was agreed upon at the first three ecumenical councils, which was aptly defined by Dioscorus when he said that Jesus Christ is "fully God and fully man without separation, division, or confusion." We parted with the Chistological language of Chalcedon because we believe it said more than was necessary. What had been declared about Our Lord at the first three councils was sufficient, and thus we thought it erroneous to allow human logic assert a "two-ness" of Christ's nature. I think it is very analogous to the filioque issue, where human logic led men to superfluously say "and from the Son."

My Priest of our Ethiopian Orthodox Church and Father Chris of the Greek Orthodox Church have both told me they believe the EO's and OO's hold to the same doctrine of Christ, and that it is essentially a difference of language rather than a difference of theology. (Hope my saying that doesn't get Father Chris in trouble. Undecided) Although I do think the semantics are very important, and I will always urge a return to pre-Chalcedonian Christological language, I nevertheless truly believe that EO's and OO's believe the same doctrine regarding Our Lord Jesus Christ.


Selam     
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« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2010, 12:19:12 AM »

We parted with the Chistological language of Chalcedon because we believe it said more than was necessary. What had been declared about Our Lord at the first three councils was sufficient, and thus we thought it erroneous to allow human logic assert a "two-ness" of Christ's nature.

Gebre, that is rather a light way of putting it.

The perspective of the Anti-Chalcedonian Fathers in the first few centuries following Chalcedon was clearly more conservative, that the definition of Chalcedon was actually substantially heterodox/heretical: a compromise with Theodoreanism/Nestorianism that rendered it distinct from and contrary to the faith of Ephesus I.

I think it is very analogous to the filioque issue, where human logic led men to superfluously say "and from the Son."

Likewise, the Byzantines concluded that the filioque as it came to be defined was actual heretical and compromised the original doctrine of the Trinity by incorporating the Son into the causal spiration of the Holy Spirit rather than retaining the Father as the sole cause in the Godhead. And when it was brought up in the Joint Commission, the Oriental representatives said that they agreed with the Byzantines on the matter.

My Priest of our Ethiopian Orthodox Church and Father Chris of the Greek Orthodox Church have both told me they believe the EO's and OO's hold to the same doctrine of Christ, and that it is essentially a difference of language rather than a difference of theology. (Hope my saying that doesn't get Father Chris in trouble. Undecided)

It won't. It is the opinion of the Agreed Statements, of which I believe has been ratified by the EP.
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« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2010, 12:22:13 AM »

Gentlemen,

Let's keep this on topic, please:  HIM Haile Selassie.

Thanks.   Smiley

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« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2010, 05:49:04 PM »

From what I have been reading, there is debate as to how H.I.M. died, whether it was illness or whether he was murdered by the Communists.  If it was the second, then he is either a Martyr or a Passion Bearer.  Either way, I beg that he prays for me to God and we should pray for the souls of those that murdered that great man.
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« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2010, 02:37:57 AM »

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Selassie_I#Haile_Selassie.27s_attitude_to_the_Rastafari
Defying expectations of the Jamaican authorities, Haile Selassie never rebuked the Rastafari for their belief in him as the returned Jesus. Instead, he presented the movement's faithful elders with gold medallions – the only recipients of such an honor on this visit. the Emperor allegedly still recalled his 1966 reception with amazement, and stated that he felt he had to be respectful of their beliefs. This was the visit when Manley received as a present from the Emperor, the Rod of Correction or Rod of Joshua that is thought to have helped him to win the 1972 election in Jamaica.

Rod of Correction?HuhHuhHuh??

insane in the membrane?


Quote
Haile Selassie I was the titular head of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and, until his visit to Jamaica in 1966, he had never confirmed nor denied that he was divine, during his visit he specifically declined to contradict the Rastafari belief that he was Jesus. After his return to Ethiopia, he dispatched Archbishop Abuna Yesehaq Mandefro to the Caribbean to help draw Rastafarians and other West Indians to the Ethiopian church and, according to some sources, denied his divinity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Selassie_I#Haile_Selassie.27s_attitude_to_the_Rastafari

I am not blaming Selassie for this. What do you personally think are the main reasons for canonization?

Well, after all, the title is should he be canonized, and most of what I heard from you guys is positive, so maybe it is worth mentioning there is a critical thread going on at another forum:
Editorial "THE FAILURE OF HAILE SELASSIE AS EMPEROR" by Marcus Garvey
http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/liberation-strategy/21773-failure-haile-selassie-emperor.html
Maybe you have some comments on this. It could just be rhetoric.

Peace on him and you.

Selam.
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« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2010, 11:35:19 AM »

Greetings to Everyone!  It's been literally years since I've posted in these forums, but I'd like to add my two cents here.  I will acknowledge my prejudices at the outset:

1.) I am an admirer of the late Emperor, H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I

2.) I am not a fan of the brutal Derg, since its disenfranchisement and persecution of the Church and its patron, the Orthodox Christian Monarchy led to:
              a.) Chaos and division within the EOTC
              b.) The disestablishment of Orthodox Christianity as the official religion of Ethiopia
              c.) The spread of the twin cancers of Pente cults and Islam in Ethiopia
              (Not to mention the imprisonment, torture, and/or deaths of many innocents)

With respect to all of the posters and all of the opinions advanced, I think that minasoliman is closest to the mark.  For me, it boils down to this:

Was His Majesty tortured for the sake of Our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ or not? 

By all accounts, His Majesty was a faithful Orthodox Christian.  H.G. Bishop Antonious Markos of the Coptic Orthodox Church was a great friend of His Majesty, and has told me that His Majesty was a devout, kind, and compassionate man.  His Grace has also said as much in his books outlining his experiences in pre-revolutionary Ethiopia.

Of course, His Majesty was also a human being with all of the accompanying frailties and flaws that entails.  It is not beyond the realm of possibility that some of the accounts of his so-called "harsher side" have at least some basis in fact.

However, St. Constantine, the persecutor and exiler of St. Athanasius, is regarded as a saint by all Apostolic Churches because he lifted the imperial bans on Christianity and issued the Edict of Toleration, making possible the First Ecumenical Council (which he indeed convened. et cetera).

The delusions of cultists, conspiracy theorists, and other bizarre fringe elements should have absolutely no bearing on the consideration of the Church in this regard, positive or negative.

If, as has been reported, His Majesty was beaten by Mengistu and his thugs, told that the beatings would stop if he renounced Christ (which he refused to do), and was eventually smothered by his captors, then he is a passion-bearer at the least, and quite possibly a modern day martyr.

However elements outside of the Orthodox Church (Rastas, syncretists, the Water Buffalo Lodge), should receive the news of his canonization should be of no import whatsoever.

Peace to All,

AN
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« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2010, 03:24:45 AM »

Greetings to Everyone!  It's been literally years since I've posted in these forums, but I'd like to add my two cents here.  I will acknowledge my prejudices at the outset:

1.) I am an admirer of the late Emperor, H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I

2.) I am not a fan of the brutal Derg, since its disenfranchisement and persecution of the Church and its patron, the Orthodox Christian Monarchy led to:
              a.) Chaos and division within the EOTC
              b.) The disestablishment of Orthodox Christianity as the official religion of Ethiopia
              c.) The spread of the twin cancers of Pente cults and Islam in Ethiopia
              (Not to mention the imprisonment, torture, and/or deaths of many innocents)

With respect to all of the posters and all of the opinions advanced, I think that minasoliman is closest to the mark.  For me, it boils down to this:

Was His Majesty tortured for the sake of Our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ or not? 

By all accounts, His Majesty was a faithful Orthodox Christian.  H.G. Bishop Antonious Markos of the Coptic Orthodox Church was a great friend of His Majesty, and has told me that His Majesty was a devout, kind, and compassionate man.  His Grace has also said as much in his books outlining his experiences in pre-revolutionary Ethiopia.

Of course, His Majesty was also a human being with all of the accompanying frailties and flaws that entails.  It is not beyond the realm of possibility that some of the accounts of his so-called "harsher side" have at least some basis in fact.

However, St. Constantine, the persecutor and exiler of St. Athanasius, is regarded as a saint by all Apostolic Churches because he lifted the imperial bans on Christianity and issued the Edict of Toleration, making possible the First Ecumenical Council (which he indeed convened. et cetera).

The delusions of cultists, conspiracy theorists, and other bizarre fringe elements should have absolutely no bearing on the consideration of the Church in this regard, positive or negative.

If, as has been reported, His Majesty was beaten by Mengistu and his thugs, told that the beatings would stop if he renounced Christ (which he refused to do), and was eventually smothered by his captors, then he is a passion-bearer at the least, and quite possibly a modern day martyr.

However elements outside of the Orthodox Church (Rastas, syncretists, the Water Buffalo Lodge), should receive the news of his canonization should be of no import whatsoever.

Peace to All,

AN

Hey brother Antonious! So good to see you here again. Thank you for those excellent and well reasoned comments, with which I concur 100%.

I hope you won't be a stranger to the forum. We need your wisdom and insights my friend!


Selam
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« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2010, 07:09:24 AM »

Nice to see you too, Gebre.  Pray for me! Smiley
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« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2010, 03:20:13 AM »

A discussion on whether H.I.M. is still alive was moved here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28791.html#top
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« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2010, 04:53:26 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Amen Amen!

yes, indeed Kedmawi Haile Selassie should be canonized, for the many miraculous achievements which HIM has accomplished in the Grace and Power of God Almighty.  Many Ethiopian Emperors have been canonized for much less shining careers, as during the Light of their respective reigns, All Ethiopian Emperors are the Light of the World, but after their passing from  the scene, much like with the Saints and with the Fathers, we contemplate on the goodness of God cooperating through the personages of the Emperors in a sacred harmony and economy of God's providence, and as we contemplate the glories of King Solomon, or King Constantine, or King Lalibela, let us also venerate the holy memory of the reign of Emperor Haile Selassie I!  

Further, this canonization will not only heal the rift between the Tewahedo and Rastafari communities, which is larger then appears as there are literally thousands and thousands of baptized Rastafari folks in full communion with many parishes, but also heal the spiritual wounds and bad history in the memories of MANY millions of Ethiopian people who are conflicted over how to celebrate the memory the illustrious HIM Haile Selassie I.  These Ethiopians need the light of history to shine bright, that they may praise God for the glorious works which He manifested in the Emperor both across Ethiopia, and even across the entire World!! It would a very legitimizing and very healing moment if the God, through the Church, were to finalize HIM reign with such an honor as Sainthood.  We in Rastafari always hold dear to venerate the Emperor, and it is fitting that our Mother the Church see our faith and piety, and also together with  us and many many faithful Ethiopian people also venerate the Emperor as a true Saint.  In my house, there is a picture on the wall and Ras Tafari sit upon His Throne, and it is no coincidence that in my priest's house behind the church there also hangs a picture of Ras Tafari.  When His Grace Archbishop Melketsedek visited my parish, I gave to him a framed picture of HIM Haile Selassie coronation (which we celebrate today November 2), to which he replied with such a life-giving smile and joy, "My Lord, how did you know He was my favorite?"

Let us pray to the Father, who is the Doer of all Things, to vibrate and manifest such things in His Will in all things.

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie
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« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2010, 05:29:39 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Amen Amen!

yes, indeed Kedmawi Haile Selassie should be canonized, for the many miraculous achievements which HIM has accomplished in the Grace and Power of God Almighty.  Many Ethiopian Emperors have been canonized for much less shining careers, as during the Light of their respective reigns, All Ethiopian Emperors are the Light of the World, but after their passing from  the scene, much like with the Saints and with the Fathers, we contemplate on the goodness of God cooperating through the personages of the Emperors in a sacred harmony and economy of God's providence, and as we contemplate the glories of King Solomon, or King Constantine, or King Lalibela, let us also venerate the holy memory of the reign of Emperor Haile Selassie I!  

Further, this canonization will not only heal the rift between the Tewahedo and Rastafari communities, which is larger then appears as there are literally thousands and thousands of baptized Rastafari folks in full communion with many parishes, but also heal the spiritual wounds and bad history in the memories of MANY millions of Ethiopian people who are conflicted over how to celebrate the memory the illustrious HIM Haile Selassie I.  These Ethiopians need the light of history to shine bright, that they may praise God for the glorious works which He manifested in the Emperor both across Ethiopia, and even across the entire World!! It would a very legitimizing and very healing moment if the God, through the Church, were to finalize HIM reign with such an honor as Sainthood.  We in Rastafari always hold dear to venerate the Emperor, and it is fitting that our Mother the Church see our faith and piety, and also together with  us and many many faithful Ethiopian people also venerate the Emperor as a true Saint.  In my house, there is a picture on the wall and Ras Tafari sit upon His Throne, and it is no coincidence that in my priest's house behind the church there also hangs a picture of Ras Tafari!  

Let us pray to the Father, who is the Doer of all Things, to vibrate and manifest such things in His Will in all things.

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie


Dear Habte Selassie,

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for your wonderful thoughts!

BLESSED CORONATION DAY!!!



Selam
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« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2010, 05:42:07 PM »





Dear Habte Selassie,

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for your wonderful thoughts!

BLESSED CORONATION DAY!!!



Selam

Hail up! Yes-I, much thanks for the Heartical reception and welcoming the-I has given. Let us rejoice together, for the Coronation of Emperor Haile Selassie I is no less a moment for celebration in the history of the World and Our Mother the Church than any other miracles of the past, present and future. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2010, 10:05:03 PM »

Is there a biography of His Imperial Majesty in English that would be considered both comprehensive (I like detail) and objective (dry and academic is good, so is something from a solid EOTC perspective)?
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« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2010, 10:07:05 PM »

Welcome to the forum, Habte Selassie!
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« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2010, 10:14:27 PM »

Is there a biography of His Imperial Majesty in English that would be considered both comprehensive (I like detail) and objective (dry and academic is good, so is something from a solid EOTC perspective)?


There is His Majesty's autobiography, "My Life and Ethiopia's Progress." There are of course various "biographies" of Haile Selassie written from a Rastafarian perspective, which are therefore specious. I would recommend Abuna Yesehaq's excellent book "The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church," which is perhaps the best resource on the EOTC Faith. This book also gives great information about Haile Selassie, as well as an objective and compassionate description of the Rastafarians.


Selam
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« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2010, 10:20:44 PM »

So I must confess my transgression! In sincerity and good intention I wrote the above prayer to Haile Selassie. But my Priest has just advised me that I should not pray to His Majesty since he has not been canonized. In spite of the inclinations of my heart, I must follow the advice of my Priest. I apologize for being hasty in my actions, and I hope that I have not led anyone into error. I must learn to temper my zeal and be patient so as to glorify God rather than myself. Please forgive my impetuous actions, and please pray for me. Embarrassed

Selam,
Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2010, 03:15:02 PM »

So I must confess my transgression! In sincerity and good intention I wrote the above prayer to Haile Selassie. But my Priest has just advised me that I should not pray to His Majesty since he has not been canonized. In spite of the inclinations of my heart, I must follow the advice of my Priest. I apologize for being hasty in my actions, and I hope that I have not led anyone into error. I must learn to temper my zeal and be patient so as to glorify God rather than myself. Please forgive my impetuous actions, and please pray for me. Embarrassed

Selam,
Gebre Menfes Kidus

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

While I would never go against the grain of what your Father-Confessor suggests, as indeed he has been sent by God's economy to be your very Guru, and his words at times are the very words of God Himself, make sure you kindly interpret such words very carefully.  As our Brother Bob sang to us, "The Truth is an Offense, but Never a Sin"

There is no sin in asking for ANYONE to pray for us, be it the Virgin, the Saints, or our dear sweet grandmothers. I have had several discussions over the years with folks of a Protestant persuasion who have in fact antagonized me for even talking honestly about prayers to the Saints and the Virgin.  They tell me, "ok, the Orthodox/Catholic Church is cool, but what about praying to the Virgin?" I tell them, Brothers, Sisters, would it be a sin if I asked you to pray for me? Them say, of course not, so I say in reply, is there any sin in asking the very precious Mother of our Savior to pray on our behalf after all, what man does not honor his own mother with promise according to the Commandment?

 The Church Militant and the Church Triumphant are in fact ONE Church, fully united, and so there is no error on your part to venerate Janhoy, but only perhaps in making it so public.  After all, it is as Ieyesus says in regards to spiritual works, "Do not let your left hand know what your right is doing" so perhaps your Priest's advice was not simply to avoid prayers for the Janhoy, but rather to avoid promoting such things to other I-ses who might not be as well established in the Faith as the-I.



stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2010, 07:52:19 PM »

So I must confess my transgression! In sincerity and good intention I wrote the above prayer to Haile Selassie. But my Priest has just advised me that I should not pray to His Majesty since he has not been canonized. In spite of the inclinations of my heart, I must follow the advice of my Priest. I apologize for being hasty in my actions, and I hope that I have not led anyone into error. I must learn to temper my zeal and be patient so as to glorify God rather than myself. Please forgive my impetuous actions, and please pray for me. Embarrassed

Selam,
Gebre Menfes Kidus

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

While I would never go against the grain of what your Father-Confessor suggests, as indeed he has been sent by God's economy to be your very Guru, and his words at times are the very words of God Himself, make sure you kindly interpret such words very carefully.  As our Brother Bob sang to us, "The Truth is an Offense, but Never a Sin"

There is no sin in asking for ANYONE to pray for us, be it the Virgin, the Saints, or our dear sweet grandmothers. I have had several discussions over the years with folks of a Protestant persuasion who have in fact antagonized me for even talking honestly about prayers to the Saints and the Virgin.  They tell me, "ok, the Orthodox/Catholic Church is cool, but what about praying to the Virgin?" I tell them, Brothers, Sisters, would it be a sin if I asked you to pray for me? Them say, of course not, so I say in reply, is there any sin in asking the very precious Mother of our Savior to pray on our behalf after all, what man does not honor his own mother with promise according to the Commandment?

 The Church Militant and the Church Triumphant are in fact ONE Church, fully united, and so there is no error on your part to venerate Janhoy, but only perhaps in making it so public.  After all, it is as Ieyesus says in regards to spiritual works, "Do not let your left hand know what your right is doing" so perhaps your Priest's advice was not simply to avoid prayers for the Janhoy, but rather to avoid promoting such things to other I-ses who might not be as well established in the Faith as the-I.



stay blessed,
habte selassie


Yes. Good words bredren. I do think that my Priest's main concern is in making it public. His exact words to me were:

"You can't pray to Haile Silassie because he is not canonized by our Church as a saint. So my advice is  not to do it because it is against the canonical law of the Church. I appreciate your requesting my advice before you sent it to the Rastas."

I am going to ask him to clarify whether or not I can ask for His Majesty's intercession in my private prayers. I am guessing that when he says it is against the canonical law of the Church, that this means only canonized Saints can be prayed to during the Divine Liturgy and other Church services. For I too have recognized the Orthodox doctrine of acknowleding the unbroken fellowship between the Church militant and the Church triumphant.


Selam
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« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2010, 09:39:22 PM »

Further, this canonization will not only heal the rift between the Tewahedo and Rastafari communities,

I'm sure some more reasonable Rastas would be reconciled on the basis of their official ability to venerate H.I.M. However, I am not sure that all Rastas would be willing to give up worshiping H.I.M. as something more than a human being.

However, the idea that some would be willing to join the Orthodox Church only if they are allowed to venerate one particular 20th century king as a Saint is a rather disturbing thought.
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« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2010, 09:43:09 PM »

So I must confess my transgression! In sincerity and good intention I wrote the above prayer to Haile Selassie. But my Priest has just advised me that I should not pray to His Majesty since he has not been canonized. In spite of the inclinations of my heart, I must follow the advice of my Priest. I apologize for being hasty in my actions, and I hope that I have not led anyone into error. I must learn to temper my zeal and be patient so as to glorify God rather than myself. Please forgive my impetuous actions, and please pray for me. Embarrassed

Selam,
Gebre Menfes Kidus

I'll say the same thing I said on FB: I don't know where he gets the idea that we are only allowed to ask for the intercessions of those individuals who have been officially canonized.
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« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2010, 10:48:17 PM »

So I must confess my transgression! In sincerity and good intention I wrote the above prayer to Haile Selassie. But my Priest has just advised me that I should not pray to His Majesty since he has not been canonized. In spite of the inclinations of my heart, I must follow the advice of my Priest. I apologize for being hasty in my actions, and I hope that I have not led anyone into error. I must learn to temper my zeal and be patient so as to glorify God rather than myself. Please forgive my impetuous actions, and please pray for me. Embarrassed

Selam,
Gebre Menfes Kidus

I'll say the same thing I said on FB: I don't know where he gets the idea that we are only allowed to ask for the intercessions of those individuals who have been officially canonized.


I have asked him to clarify and explain this further. I will let you know when I hear from him. But I certainly am not about to revert back to my former Protestant mentality where I was the arbiter of what was or wasn't the correct thing to do. I trust my Priest, and I can assure you that he thoroughly understands the Teachings and Traditions of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. I must accept and follow his instruction on this matter. I have asked him if it is ok to privately pray to H.I.M. or other departed Christians who have not been canonized. I'll let you know what he says.

Here is some information about my beloved Priest:
http://www.ethiopianorthodoxchurch.info/about.html#anchor_26


Selam
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« Reply #76 on: November 04, 2010, 12:47:15 PM »

From my Priest:

  
"Selam Gebremenfeskdus,

To answer your questions, you can't pray to persons who are not canonized by the Church publicly or in private. Regarding Haile Silassie's sainthood, there are other kings, bishops, monks, and laypeople who scarified their lives by fighting muslim and catholic invaders in the sixteenth, seventeenth, and recently in the nineteenth centuries, so before the canonization of Haile Silassie, the Church has to canonize them first. As you mentioned their names in your composition of prayer, just pray to Sts. Teklhaymanot, Gebremenfeskdus, and others."



I shall obey my Priest.



Selam
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« Reply #77 on: November 04, 2010, 04:25:25 PM »

Further, this canonization will not only heal the rift between the Tewahedo and Rastafari communities,

I'm sure some more reasonable Rastas would be reconciled on the basis of their official ability to venerate H.I.M. However, I am not sure that all Rastas would be willing to give up worshiping H.I.M. as something more than a human being.

However, the idea that some would be willing to join the Orthodox Church only if they are allowed to venerate one particular 20th century king as a Saint is a rather disturbing thought.

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Why is this so disturbing a prospect to you? All converts come into Orthodox with all their baggage and history, just as those born into Orthodox equally deal with such things.  The Sacred Heart of Jesus, through the adjusting process of the Orthodox life and rhythm and tempo of Orthodox worship (in the calendar, in the services, in the appointed prayers, in the readings, etc) alone in His Grace can vibrate and resonate true conversion and repentance in our lives and our hearts.  That being said, the first step is to come into this worship and life to begin with and to continue in it.  If Rastafari people are accepted in the Orthodox, and themselves find their selves within the Church, find a place for of their own and see a familiarity, they will stick around and allow the Sacred Heart to change them in God's Sacramental Time. Only God's power can do this, no good idea, not elaborate process or any human conception can accomplish this, and when HIM Haile Selassie is officially canonized, HIM can provide the necessary Introduction to the Trinity and the Virgin as is common with the other Saints.  In my own experience and life, it was indeed HIM Haile Selassie who became a mystic revelation of Orthodox to i-man, and HIM personally brought me to the Orthodox, I can only testify what I have experienced, irregardless of the opinions of churchmen and rule books.

"For not by following wisely made myths do we make known to you the power and presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ, but by becoming spectators  of His magnificence." II Peter 1:16

Further, Ethiopians themselves are flocking by the millions towards Pentecostalism and Islam, and while I have no beef with either, I do not wish for people to abandon Orthodox as a trade-off.  I believe we can all mutually fellowship and learn from each others' experiences, but we must not be mutually exclusive, so something must be done to heal the rift.  In Ethiopia before the Derg, the Emperor practically WAS a living Saint in all respects, for all intents and purposes, and the culture and climate reflected such.  This has become ingrained in the people who lived in this time, so for all  the folks basically 35 and older, canonizing the Emperor can be a very validating, legitimizing, and inviting opportunity.

Besides, the Emperor is very worthy of canonization, and there are quite a few who will attest to HIM miracles in Africa and Ethiopia. Like Saint Ezana or Saint Lalibela before HIM, I am sure that Janhoy Haile Selassie I will be recognized as an official Saint in due time.  In fact, when the EOTC issued an official death certificate in 2001, this was a crucial first step towards healing and reconciliation.  God's time takes a different tone than our own, and we must learn to adjust in It.

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie
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« Reply #78 on: November 05, 2010, 07:38:13 AM »

Quote from: Gebre's priest
To answer your questions, you can't pray to persons who are not canonized by the Church publicly or in private.

I don't mean to question Gebre's priest's advice or that Gebre shouldn't abide to it but is this sentiment shared by other Ethiopian OOs or other OO churches?
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« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2010, 01:11:10 PM »

Quote from: Gebre's priest
To answer your questions, you can't pray to persons who are not canonized by the Church publicly or in private.

I don't mean to question Gebre's priest's advice or that Gebre shouldn't abide to it but is this sentiment shared by other Ethiopian OOs or other OO churches?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I attend a rather "radical" parish that has made quite a few waves over the past decades, but we do remain staunchly Orthodox and if I do say so, rather conservative aside from some things.  The Rastafari community has been well embraced in my parish, the Member (abbot) is a delightful elder who is well connected with the Imperial Era clergy of ranking priests and Bishops, and the other priests are ridiculously friendly and inviting to the Rastafari people.  The main priest and I have had very many deep and long discussions about various issues both in Orthodox and also in Rastafari.  He taught me about the Tewahedo, and I taught him about Rastafari people.

While the clergy and the laity are quite receptive to Rastafari people, nonetheless, on a few occasions the priests have confronted me regarding the Emperor.  Kesis understood the dread lifestyle in accordance with the Nazarites, and in fact often explained to the rather confused elderly ladies that my shocking appearance was indeed biblical founded and acceptable in our worship.  However in regards to the Emperor, he has taken the opportunity on several occasions to attempt to correct me.  Once, while wearing our trademark HIM Haile Selassie pins on my chest (a badge of Rastafari people) he stopped me in the hall, very concerned and said, "You know that He is not a canonized Saint within our Church?"

I replied, "yes, but I couldn't help it, HIM wanted to come to Church with me today, as HIM loves it so!"   Further, I said, is it not appropriate to commemorate great men of the Church and to remember our forefathers with promise, regardless of their Sainthood? He agreed and let it go, but still had a bit of a chip on his shoulder because God gave me the authority over him, and not the other way around.  I humbly submit to all the words of the priest, if they are fitting with the heartical movements of the Holy Spirit.

I did not tell anyone in the Church to worship or venerate HIM as a Saint, rather I was just wearing the pin to remind people HIM history and presence, and many people often start delightful conversations about their experience with the Emperor for me.  The other day my good friend, a sistren about my mom's age, regailed me with stories of packing lunch for her father who was HIM personal security guard in the Imperial Guard, and that she wrapped it in a special handkerchief with a treat just for the Emperor, and that Janhoy always told her father he appreciated that extra touch! Another elder told me about when he met HIM in 1961 when the elder was a soccer player on the Ethiopia World Cup team, and Janhoy gave him a dollar.  He never forgot that day or shaking HIM hand, or the smile in HIM eyes upon their meeting, and me wearing that pin with a picture of Janhoy caused such a stir of reminiscing, how could I NOT wear it there?

In other words, yes, many and most clergy, while quite friendly and receptive to Rastafari people, are in fact at times quite hostile to the beliefs and perspectives of ini Rastafari people..

A big issue is cannabis consumption.  Remember that there are several EOTC parishes in Rastafari ONLY communities in Trinidad and JA (my friend at church, his cousin is the Bishop of Trinidad!) where there are no Ethiopians, just Rastafari, and we got a lot of issues.  Rastafari keep breaking the rules and smoking herb behind the gates, as after all this is quite common in Rastafari mansions, where as SMOKING of ANY KIND is a severe taboo behind the gates.  Its cool to smoke outside the gates, but NEVER within,  no spitting either, and even at times no eating or drinking! The compound within the gates is sacred because of the Tabot (altar slab) and so we must never disraspect it, and many Rastafari parishioners in the islands have caused quite a controversy,  They even have EOTC ecumenical meetings to discuss the various Rastafari issues within the EOTC including Emperor worship, cannabis culture,dreadlocks and our often radical politics!

Stay Blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 01:20:26 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2010, 09:13:43 PM »

Quote from: Gebre's priest
To answer your questions, you can't pray to persons who are not canonized by the Church publicly or in private.

I don't mean to question Gebre's priest's advice or that Gebre shouldn't abide to it but is this sentiment shared by other Ethiopian OOs or other OO churches?

I could be wrong, but it was always my understanding that it's OK to ask the intercession of those who go before us, even if they are not on the Church calendar.  

Gebre, however, is doing the right thing by being obedient to his priest.  His priest most likely has a pastoral reason for giving these instructions; perhaps a reason that addresses an issue with his congregation, but would not apply to a different congregation elsewhere.  Whatever the reason, Gebre is correct in not second guessing his spiritual father.

Obedience is one of the hardest spiritual disciplines (I'm horrible at it,) but it's essential for spiritual growth, as one can't cultivate humility without it.  We see the importance of obedience in the Sayings of the Desert Fathers:

Quote
It was said of Abba John the Dwarf that he withdrew and lived in the desert at Scetis with an old man of Thebes. His Abba, taking a piece of dry wood, planted it and said to him, 'Water it every day with a bottle of water, until it bears fruit.' Now the water was so far away that he had to leave in the evening and return the following morning. At the end of three years the wood came to life and bore fruit. Then the old man took some of the fruit and carried it to the church saying to the brethren, 'Take and eat the fruit of obedience.'

http://en.orthodoxwiki.org/Sayings_of_the_Desert_Fathers#Abba_John_the_Dwarf

Quote
It was said of Abba Silvanus that at Scetis he had a disciple called Mark whose obedience was great. He was a scribe. The old man loved him because of his obedience. He had eleven other disciples who were hurt because he loved him more than them. When they knew this, the elders were sorry about it and they came one day to him to reproach him about it. Taking them with him, he went to knock at each cell, saying, 'Brother so and so, come here; I need you,' but none of them came immediately. Coming to Mark's cell, he knocked and said, 'Mark.' Hearing the old man's voice, he jumped up immediately and the old man sent him off to serve and said to the elders, 'Fathers, where are the other brothers?' Then he went into Mark's cell and picked up his book and noticed that he had begun to write the letter 'omega' ["ω"] but when he had heard the old man, he had not finished writing it. Then the elders said, 'Truly, Abba, he whom you love, we love too and God loves him.'

http://en.orthodoxwiki.org/Sayings_of_the_Desert_Fathers#Abba_Silvanus


There are many people to whom we could show obedience, but above all it's important to obey one's priest, and to show respect to all priests.  Whenever I'm tempted to criticize a priest who has said something with which I disagree, I remind myself of the words of St. Evagrius:

Quote
[P]riests are next after the Lord, because by means of the sacred mysteries they purify and pray for us; we are to revere the elders as the angels, for it is they who anoint us for our struggle and heal us when we are bitten by wild beasts.

http://www.ldysinger.com/Evagrius/01_Prak/00a_start.htm

(Saying 100)

« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 09:15:10 PM by Salpy » Logged

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« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2010, 01:06:01 AM »

I am one of those persons who is both Rastafari and a baptized Orthodox Christian.  His Majesty Haile Selassie I is very important to me spiritually.  I do not believe that he is God or Christ.  However, he is indirectly responsible for my salvation in Christ.  I was baptized as an infant in the Russian Orthodox Church, but as a child and young person I had no spiritual sensibility although I attended church "when-ever the bell rang" because we lived in an ethnic neighborhood where everyone attended church often.  However, when I went away to college, I became an atheist (due to influence of atheistic professors who taught scientific materialism). In my young adulthood, I discovered Rastafari.  Aside from the belief in the divinity of Haile Selassie, the "mind" of Rastafari was congruent with my own thinking about social justice, world peace, and the healing of human relationships.  I did not consider Haile Selassie to be God, because I came to Rastafari as an athiest.  However, after learning Haile Selassie's teachings, I felt drawn to actually LEARN the theology of the Orthodox faith, and I came back into the Orthodox fold, not as one who merely goes through the motions (as I had done when I was young) but with 100% belief that there is a God and with growing overstanding of Orthodox theology. I fully embrace the Ethiopian Orthodox Tawehedo teachings as Truth.  If it had not been for Rastafari, which introduced me to the teachings of His Majesty Haile Selassie, I would not know Christ as I now do, and I know that there are others who have had similar experiences.  Is it not a "miracle" that His Majesty Haile Selassie is still bringing people to the Knowledge of the True Faith, many years after he has departed this earth?  To InI, he is a Saint, whether canonized officially or not.  My religion is Orthodoxy.  My Livity (life style) is Rastafari.  Blessed Love, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 01:16:04 AM by Mama Dorothy » Logged
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« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2010, 01:32:34 AM »

Welcome, Mama Dorothy.   Smiley
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« Reply #83 on: November 14, 2010, 02:10:56 AM »

I am one of those persons who is both Rastafari and a baptized Orthodox Christian.  His Majesty Haile Selassie I is very important to me spiritually.  I do not believe that he is God or Christ.  However, he is indirectly responsible for my salvation in Christ.  I was baptized as an infant in the Russian Orthodox Church, but as a child and young person I had no spiritual sensibility although I attended church "when-ever the bell rang" because we lived in an ethnic neighborhood where everyone attended church often.  However, when I went away to college, I became an atheist (due to influence of atheistic professors who taught scientific materialism). In my young adulthood, I discovered Rastafari.  Aside from the belief in the divinity of Haile Selassie, the "mind" of Rastafari was congruent with my own thinking about social justice, world peace, and the healing of human relationships.  I did not consider Haile Selassie to be God, because I came to Rastafari as an athiest.  However, after learning Haile Selassie's teachings, I felt drawn to actually LEARN the theology of the Orthodox faith, and I came back into the Orthodox fold, not as one who merely goes through the motions (as I had done when I was young) but with 100% belief that there is a God and with growing overstanding of Orthodox theology. I fully embrace the Ethiopian Orthodox Tawehedo teachings as Truth.  If it had not been for Rastafari, which introduced me to the teachings of His Majesty Haile Selassie, I would not know Christ as I now do, and I know that there are others who have had similar experiences.  Is it not a "miracle" that His Majesty Haile Selassie is still bringing people to the Knowledge of the True Faith, many years after he has departed this earth?  To InI, he is a Saint, whether canonized officially or not.  My religion is Orthodoxy.  My Livity (life style) is Rastafari.  Blessed Love, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.


Yes! Welcome Mama Dorothy!

Your words indeed describe the journey of so many of us. Your testimony is very similar to mine, except that I came to Rastafari not via atheism, but via (or in spite of) Evangelicalism. His Majesty showed me the True Light of Christ, and I have never read a word His Majesty wrote or said that did not ring of Truth. I obey my Priest, and therefore I do not pray to H.I.M. anymore. But I have no doubt that His Majesty is praying for me nonetheless. I hope that H.I.M. will one day be canonized, and perhaps InI Rastafari who are Orthodox can be instrumental in bringing this to fruition.

Give thanks for your wisdom and overstanding. I do hope you will contribute your wealth of wisdom to this forum.

Selam,
Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #84 on: November 14, 2010, 05:40:40 AM »

Give thanks for the welcome, Salpy and Bredrin Gebre. I do read posts on the boards but seldom post here unless I feel that there is something of importance that I can contribute. After all, Orthodox theology has been reasoned for centuries.

My mission (which the priest of the church that I attend refers to as a "calling") is to share the knowledge with other Rastafari. I can do this only as a Rastafari, as the acceptance must come from realizations and overstandings that arise within the movement itself. It is a gradual realization that individuals come to after becoming more and more familiar with His Majesty's own words and teachings, as well as a welcoming atmosphere in those Orthodox churches that accept Rasta as they are.

Rastafari is generally misunderstood and viewed with suspicion by persons in mainstream culture but it has had a positive influence on the general culture even though those same persons may not be aware of it, in areas such as human rights, social justice, respect for the sustainability of the natural environment, healthy eating, and the "one love" principle, which is to put into practice Christ's commandment to love others without judgment.

I have been Rasta for 34 years and from my experience I sight that many Rastafari are already very "Orthodox" in their beliefs, as every Rastafari strives to follow the moral teachings of His Majesty Haile Selassie, which are grounded on the teachings of Christ.  However the error is that most Rastafari have confused the "messenger" with the "message."  There were historical and psychological reasons for that mistaken belief, primarily arising from the legacy of slavery and colonialism and the needs of persons of African descent to reclaim a positive African self-identity. Therefore, identity with Africa is of paramount importance to Rastafari. One must bear in mind that when the Rastafari faith was established in Jamaica, its founders were not very aware of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church but only knew of the coronation of His Majesty, an Ethiopian, and several Biblical references to Ethiopia. Their prior exposure to Christianity was of the western denominations as taught by missionaries, and they could not relate to it as Africans.  The Ethiopian Orthodox Tawehedo Church provides a means whereby Rastafari (or anyone) can worship Christ in a true African tradition.  It is an education issue which is gradually being addressed within Rastafari.  The EOTC can be very influential in helping to provide the necessary education by being welcoming to Rastafari. Haile Selassie is therefore important. Whether the Church canonizes him or not, he is still bringing people to Orthodoxy.

Blessings
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« Reply #85 on: November 14, 2010, 06:38:57 AM »

Give thanks for the welcome, Salpy and Bredrin Gebre. I do read posts on the boards but seldom post here unless I feel that there is something of importance that I can contribute. After all, Orthodox theology has been reasoned for centuries.

My mission (which the priest of the church that I attend refers to as a "calling") is to share the knowledge with other Rastafari. I can do this only as a Rastafari, as the acceptance must come from realizations and overstandings that arise within the movement itself. It is a gradual realization that individuals come to after becoming more and more familiar with His Majesty's own words and teachings, as well as a welcoming atmosphere in those Orthodox churches that accept Rasta as they are.

Rastafari is generally misunderstood and viewed with suspicion by persons in mainstream culture but it has had a positive influence on the general culture even though those same persons may not be aware of it, in areas such as human rights, social justice, respect for the sustainability of the natural environment, healthy eating, and the "one love" principle, which is to put into practice Christ's commandment to love others without judgment.

I have been Rasta for 34 years and from my experience I sight that many Rastafari are already very "Orthodox" in their beliefs, as every Rastafari strives to follow the moral teachings of His Majesty Haile Selassie, which are grounded on the teachings of Christ.  However the error is that most Rastafari have confused the "messenger" with the "message."  There were historical and psychological reasons for that mistaken belief, primarily arising from the legacy of slavery and colonialism and the needs of persons of African descent to reclaim a positive African self-identity. Therefore, identity with Africa is of paramount importance to Rastafari. One must bear in mind that when the Rastafari faith was established in Jamaica, its founders were not very aware of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church but only knew of the coronation of His Majesty, an Ethiopian, and several Biblical references to Ethiopia. Their prior exposure to Christianity was of the western denominations as taught by missionaries, and they could not relate to it as Africans.  The Ethiopian Orthodox Tawehedo Church provides a means whereby Rastafari (or anyone) can worship Christ in a true African tradition.  It is an education issue which is gradually being addressed within Rastafari.  The EOTC can be very influential in helping to provide the necessary education by being welcoming to Rastafari. Haile Selassie is therefore important. Whether the Church canonizes him or not, he is still bringing people to Orthodoxy.

Blessings


Wisdom! Let us be attentive!


Selam
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« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2010, 03:16:18 PM »

I just read this today. Are any of our Armenian friends aware of this?

"The Crown Prince visited the Armenian monastery of Jerusalem. There, he adopted 40 Armenian orphans (አርባ ልጆች Arba Lijoch, "forty children") who had escaped the Armenian genocide of the Ottoman Empire.[38] Ras Tafari arranged for the musical education of the youths, and they came to form the imperial brass band."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Selassie_I_of_Ethiopia#King_and_Emperor


Selam
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 03:17:49 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
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« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2010, 09:11:55 PM »

I've heard the story.  One wonders if any recording was ever done of their music.  That would be very cool.   Smiley
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« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2010, 10:10:18 PM »

I've heard the story.  One wonders if any recording was ever done of their music.  That would be very cool.   Smiley

Indeed!


Selam
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« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2010, 10:50:49 PM »

Greetings to One and All ...

Of course, I am for His canonization ...

To me, He is the living and blessed instrument of God through whom Christ has in this day revealed HIMself to us.

Thank you Lord for Haile Selassie the 1st.

" The great common tasks accomplished by this Conference in unison bestow on the true faith and true order of the Oriental Orthodox Church the admiration of the whole world. "

Haile Selassie I
January 21, 1965
Accepting the title of Defender of the Faith
6 days after the Conference of the Oriental Orthodox Churches in Addis Abeba

Blessings.



« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 10:56:56 PM by Arnaud » Logged

Mo'a Ambessa ze imnegede Yehuda !
The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered !
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