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Author Topic: Divorce Rates Among Christian Groups  (Read 2960 times) Average Rating: 0
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Bogoliubtsy
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« on: March 20, 2009, 08:04:48 PM »

Found this interesting:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm


Divorce rates among Christian groups:

The slogan: "The family that prays together, stays together" is well known. There has been much anecdotal evidence that has led to "unsubstantiated claims that the divorce rate for Christians who attended church regularly, pray together or who meet other conditions is only 1 or 2 percent". 8 Emphasis ours]. Dr. Tom Ellis, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention's Council on the Family said that for "...born-again Christian couples who marry...in the church after having received premarital counseling...and attend church regularly and pray daily together..." experience only 1 divorce out of nearly 39,000 marriages -- or 0.00256 percent. 9

A recent study by the Barna Research Group throws extreme doubt on these estimates. Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 1 They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The margin of error is ±2 percentage points. The survey found:
-   11% of the adult population is currently divorced.
-   25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime.
-   Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.
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« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 08:25:19 PM »

Are annulments counted as divorces?  They should be.
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 08:46:56 PM »

Found this interesting:

I'm sure you did.

Quote

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm


Divorce rates among Christian groups:

The slogan: "The family that prays together, stays together" is well known. There has been much anecdotal evidence that has led to "unsubstantiated claims that the divorce rate for Christians who attended church regularly, pray together or who meet other conditions is only 1 or 2 percent". 8 Emphasis ours]. Dr. Tom Ellis, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention's Council on the Family said that for "...born-again Christian couples who marry...in the church after having received premarital counseling...and attend church regularly and pray daily together..." experience only 1 divorce out of nearly 39,000 marriages -- or 0.00256 percent. 9

A recent study by the Barna Research Group throws extreme doubt on these estimates. Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 1 They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The margin of error is ±2 percentage points. The survey found:
-   11% of the adult population is currently divorced.
-   25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime.
-   Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.

How many "notional Chrisitans" were in the poll?

Quote
The normal lifestyle of American young adults is to live together for a period of time in a type of informal trial marriage. These relationships frequently do not endure.
 
Couples enter into their first marriage at a older age than in the past.

A growing percentage of committed couples have decided to live in a common-law relationship rather than get married. This is particularly true among some elderly who fear reduction in government support payments.

Was this shack up rate, especially the first two points, considered in the survey?  The discrepency, if there is one, between the rate of shacking up between conservative Christians and the "mainstream" Christians, agnostics and atheists?
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 08:51:34 PM »

Are annulments counted as divorces?  They should be.
Good point.
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 09:15:10 PM »

Quote
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.

I wonder why that is, though. Are conservative Christians just more set in their ways, and thus more likely to be abrasive and less tolerant when someone inevitably changes?
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 09:20:36 PM »

Quote
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.

I wonder why that is, though. Are conservative Christians just more set in their ways, and thus more likely to be abrasive and less tolerant when someone inevitably changes?

or is it that the other faith groups such as Atheists and Agnostics don't bother to commit to marriage, so the frequent shacking up and breaking up doesn't register on the poll?
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 09:32:02 PM »

Are annulments counted as divorces?  They should be.

Annulments are divorces.  Just with Corban.
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 09:37:47 PM »

Quote
or is it that the other faith groups such as Atheists and Agnostics don't bother to commit to marriage, so the frequent shacking up and breaking up doesn't register on the poll?

That's possible. Also, those atheists and agnostics are so wicked that they are probably more likely to have an "open marriage," and thus still not count among the divorced even if they're technically seeing other people. Oh those evil non-believers!  Grin
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 09:46:49 PM »

Quote
or is it that the other faith groups such as Atheists and Agnostics don't bother to commit to marriage, so the frequent shacking up and breaking up doesn't register on the poll?

That's possible. Also, those atheists and agnostics are so wicked that they are probably more likely to have an "open marriage," and thus still not count among the divorced even if they're technically seeing other people. Oh those evil non-believers!  Grin

Hadn't thought of that.  And I should have, since I've known people (and they weren't church goers) who did just that.
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 11:06:59 PM »

Quote
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.

I wonder why that is, though. Are conservative Christians just more set in their ways, and thus more likely to be abrasive and less tolerant when someone inevitably changes?
Would you tolerate changes for the worse?  If no, does that mean you're 'abrasive', 'intolerant' or 'set in your ways'?   
 
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 11:12:23 PM »

Quote
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.

I wonder why that is, though. Are conservative Christians just more set in their ways, and thus more likely to be abrasive and less tolerant when someone inevitably changes?
Would you tolerate changes for the worse?  If no, does that mean you're 'abrasive', 'intolerant' or 'set in your ways'?   
 

I don't see any indication that the reasons for the divorce are factored in: you know, a difference between "don't feel like being married to you anymore" from adultery, or is the latter one of those inevitable changes that we are abrasive and less tolerant about? Is fidelity being "set in your ways?"
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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 11:16:34 PM »

Are annulments counted as divorces?  They should be.
In Roman Catholicism, a couple must obtain a civil divorce before the tribunal will consider the petition for the annulment.
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2009, 11:19:10 PM »

Quote
Would you tolerate changes for the worse?  If no, does that mean you're 'abrasive', 'intolerant' or 'set in your ways'?

Of course I would tolerate changes for the worse. What marriage doesn't have some changes for the worse as the years pass by?
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« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2009, 11:25:39 PM »

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Would you tolerate changes for the worse?  If no, does that mean you're 'abrasive', 'intolerant' or 'set in your ways'?

Of course I would tolerate changes for the worse. What marriage doesn't have some changes for the worse as the years pass by?
But suppose 'the worse' meant child abuse?  Drug/alcohol abuse?  Murder?  Infidelity?  The 'poll' doesn't really give any reasons as to why these supposed Conservative Christians divorced.  As ialmisry wrote, "Is fidelity being 'set in your ways?'".  Would you tolerate your spouse joining a cult?  I don't wish any of these things upon you or your family, but I seriously doubt you would or could tolerate them.
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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 11:26:05 PM »

Let me add something here. I've also experienced things that, at the time, seemed like it was a change for the worse. As I grew as a person and allowed myself to change, however, I saw that things were actually better. But that change had to happen before I could see the reality of the situation, because I was stuck in a narrow-minded, overly-dogmatic place. I thought I knew it all and had things right about a certain issue. When I gave up that pride, I saw that not only had I been wrong, but my wrongness could have destroyed my marriage had I not been willing to change.
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 11:30:31 PM »

Quote
But suppose 'the worse' meant child abuse?  Drug/alcohol abuse?  Murder?  Infidelity?  The 'poll' doesn't really give any reasons as to why these supposed Conservative Christians divorced.  As ialmisry wrote, "Is fidelity being 'set in your ways?'".  Would you tolerate joining a cult?  I don't wish any of these things upon you or your family, but I seriously doubt you would or could tolerate them.

Well, it would depend on the situation. Things like child abuse might not be fixable, and in that case divorce is a good option. Things like infidelity are generally fixable though, if both people put forward an effort, perhaps by learning to not sleep around, or perhaps by learning to have a more open marriage.

EDIT--I seem to be getting a bit personal here, perhaps it'd be for the best if I refrained from posting in this particular thread.
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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 11:38:20 PM »

Let me add something here. I've also experienced things that, at the time, seemed like it was a change for the worse. As I grew as a person and allowed myself to change, however, I saw that things were actually better. But that change had to happen before I could see the reality of the situation, because I was stuck in a narrow-minded, overly-dogmatic place. I thought I knew it all and had things right about a certain issue. When I gave up that pride, I saw that not only had I been wrong, but my wrongness could have destroyed my marriage had I not been willing to change.
I whole-heartedly agree with you here as I've experienced similar situations.  As we age and mature, we inevitably change and this inevitably changes the marriage dynamics.  A couple who has been married for 40 years are not the same as they were at 20 years.  But surely you agree that change for the sake of change, or even all types of change cannot be healthy?  I still assert that even the most tolerant people have their limits and to accept just any change for the sake of being tolerant is just ignorant not to mention possibly dangerous and unhealthy.
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2009, 11:44:59 PM »

Things like infidelity are generally fixable though, if both people put forward an effort,
suppose both people don't put forth the effort and continues in their infidelity?  The average person simply cannot tolerate that.

...or perhaps by learning to have a more open marriage.
Well, this might save some marriages but then it ceases to be Christian doesn't it?


EDIT--I seem to be getting a bit personal here, perhaps it'd be for the best if I refrained from posting in this particular thread.
I'm not offended in the least.  Unless I'm missing something, I think it's generally been a good discussion.
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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 12:07:03 AM »

Quote
But suppose 'the worse' meant child abuse?  Drug/alcohol abuse?  Murder?  Infidelity?  The 'poll' doesn't really give any reasons as to why these supposed Conservative Christians divorced.  As ialmisry wrote, "Is fidelity being 'set in your ways?'".  Would you tolerate joining a cult?  I don't wish any of these things upon you or your family, but I seriously doubt you would or could tolerate them.

Well, it would depend on the situation. Things like child abuse might not be fixable, and in that case divorce is a good option. Things like infidelity are generally fixable though, if both people put forward an effort, perhaps by learning to not sleep around, or perhaps by learning to have a more open marriage.

Open how?
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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 12:10:08 AM »

Things like infidelity are generally fixable though, if both people put forward an effort,
suppose both people don't put forth the effort and continues in their infidelity?  The average person simply cannot tolerate that.

Nor should they.  A good friend of mine was thrown out last year by his wife: she found out that he was having another affair.  They had gone to counseling over the last one.  He evidently was shocked when she said he had to leave.  Good for her.

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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2009, 12:39:11 AM »

Things like infidelity are generally fixable though, if both people put forward an effort,
suppose both people don't put forth the effort and continues in their infidelity?  The average person simply cannot tolerate that.

Nor should they.  A good friend of mine was thrown out last year by his wife: she found out that he was having another affair.  They had gone to counseling over the last one.  He evidently was shocked when she said he had to leave.  Good for her.



I agree. If you're consistently unfaithful then the whole thing is a sham. Why even bother?

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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2009, 02:36:44 AM »

It looks to me like Jesus Christ sternly forbade divorce. For example, Mark 10:
8 And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10 And in the house again his disciples asked him concerning the same thing.
11 And he saith to them: Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if the wife shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Luke 16:18 Every one that putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her that is put away from her husband, committeth adultery.
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2009, 03:42:08 AM »

It looks to me like Jesus Christ sternly forbade divorce. For example, Mark 10:
8 And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10 And in the house again his disciples asked him concerning the same thing.
11 And he saith to them: Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if the wife shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Luke 16:18 Every one that putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her that is put away from her husband, committeth adultery.

And your point is?

If this is some excuse for the invention of the "annulment" - that it isn't divorce - then think again.  You're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes here. 
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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2009, 03:51:55 AM »

If this is some excuse for the invention of the "annulment" - that it isn't divorce - then think again.  You're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes here. 

I don't think Stanley is wanting to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.  He has some straight-talking things to say about Catholic annulment.  For example, did you know that the Church which is supposed to abhore divorce as a major sin in fact forces its members to obtain a divorce?  That's right.  A Roman Catholic Marriage Tribunal will not accept an application for annulment unless the couple have already obtained a divorce!!
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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2009, 05:04:24 AM »

I don't think Stanley is wanting to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.  He has some straight-talking things to say about Catholic annulment.  For example, did you know that the Church which is supposed to abhore divorce as a major sin in fact forces its members to obtain a divorce?  That's right.  A Roman Catholic Marriage Tribunal will not accept an application for annulment unless the couple have already obtained a divorce!!

Sorry, Stan, I now see you have already said that.
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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2009, 04:44:19 PM »

It looks to me like Jesus Christ sternly forbade divorce. For example, Mark 10:
8 And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10 And in the house again his disciples asked him concerning the same thing.
11 And he saith to them: Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if the wife shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Luke 16:18 Every one that putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her that is put away from her husband, committeth adultery.

And your point is?

If this is some excuse for the invention of the "annulment" - that it isn't divorce - then think again.  You're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes here. 
My point is that it appears from the divorce statistics quoted that modern man may have forgotten about Mk 10:1-12; Lk.16:18; 1 Cor.7:10-11, etc. This would apply equally to the easing up on RC annulments, as the RC Church tribunal requires the couple to obtain a divorce before the petition for the annulment process is granted.
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« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2009, 12:19:31 PM »

Is there a study with Orthodox figures?
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« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2009, 12:41:58 PM »

Is there a study with Orthodox figures?

This may be a start:

http://www.helleniccomserve.com/divorce.html
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