Author Topic: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles  (Read 4034 times)

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Offline John of the North

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Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« on: March 18, 2009, 06:39:02 PM »

Apropos:  somebody was reprimanded for using MP, however we see EP used above.


The warned use of MP was in reference to a hierarch, not a jurisdiction.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:49:59 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 06:41:55 PM »

Apropos:  somebody was reprimanded for using MP, however we see EP used above.


The warned use of MP was in reference to a hierarch, not a jurisdiction.

Yes, you are right, it was about Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:51:32 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 06:48:43 PM »
Yes, you are right, it was about Met. Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America.

Come on Father and take the time to add the titles to the Hierarch's name, I would never call you Ambrose.    :)  :o  :)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:51:45 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 06:53:32 PM »
Yes, you are right, it was about Met. Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America.

Come on Father and take the time to add the titles to the Hierarch's name,)

I have ALWAYS used titles in the past, on this Forum and everywhere in the Internet.   But I saw in the Admin's post that it is not required here.  Go back two or three posts (Post 10) and you will see:

"Meletios was Archbishop of Athens and was kicked out."

So what is wrong with my writing:

"it was about Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America."

However, let's not derail this thread.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:51:52 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 06:57:14 PM »
I have ALWAYS used titles in the past, on this Forum and everywhere in the Internet.   But I saw in the Admin's post that it is not required here.  Go back two or three posts (Post 10) and you will see:

"Meletios was Archbishop of Athens and was kicked out."

So what is wrong with my writing:

"it was about Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America."

However, let's not derail this thread.

[Clarification and brief tangent]

Whatever one thinks of Pat. Meletios, He still deserves the title unless He was defrocked / removed.

Former GOA Archbishop Spyridon retired; He was not defrocked / removed.

[/Clarification and brief tangent]
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:52:01 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 07:00:04 PM »
Yes, you are right, it was about Met. Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America.

Come on Father and take the time to add the titles to the Hierarch's name,)

I have ALWAYS used titles in the past, on this Forum and everywhere in the Internet.   But I saw in the Admin's post that it is not required here.  Go back two or three posts (Post 10) and you will see:

"Meletios was Archbishop of Athens and was kicked out."

So what is wrong with my writing:

"it was about Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America."

However, let's not derail this thread.

I'll tell you whats wrong.
You are quoting Fr. Anastasios from a post he made dated 05 June 2003. That's nearly six years ago. Our forum rules have developed since then. The fact that you had to find a post of Fr. Anastasios which was six years old to "prove" your point should tell you something.
Do you wish to discuss this further?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:52:09 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 07:14:45 PM »
Yes, you are right, it was about Met. Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America.

Come on Father and take the time to add the titles to the Hierarch's name,)

I have ALWAYS used titles in the past, on this Forum and everywhere in the Internet.   But I saw in the Admin's post that it is not required here.  Go back two or three posts (Post 10) and you will see:

"Meletios was Archbishop of Athens and was kicked out."

So what is wrong with my writing:

"it was about Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America."

However, let's not derail this thread.

I'll tell you whats wrong.
You are quoting Fr. Anastasios from a post he made dated 05 June 2003. That's nearly six years ago. Our forum rules have developed since then. The fact that you had to find a post of Fr. Anastasios which was six years old to "prove" your point should tell you something.
Do you wish to discuss this further?

George,

Time means very little.  This Forum has been set up to bring to our attention (at the bottom of each page) threads which are relevant.  I often read them and I rarely pay attention to the dates.   One presumes that what Fr Anastasios wrote was right and correct.

It was not a matter of "having" to find a post to prove a point.  That is a quite erroneous assumption on your part.   I looked at the threads on the bottom of the webpage (which I presume we are being encouraged to do.)  I found an interesting message from Fr Anastasios about the transmission of the Greek Americans from the control of Athens to the EP.  I posted it.   I did not look at the date.  His facts, whenever he wrote them,  are just as true today as tomorrow.  The purpose of my posting should be plain enough;  it is relevant to the lecture of Archimandrite Elpidophoros.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:52:18 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 07:18:23 PM »
Time means very little.

So then I guess you're still a Roman Catholic.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:52:58 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 07:22:22 PM »
Time means very little.

So then I guess you're still a Roman Catholic.

Who told you that?  Besides, I thought we were not supposed to bring in people's personal details?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:53:06 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 07:29:36 PM »
Yes, you are right, it was about Met. Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America.

Come on Father and take the time to add the titles to the Hierarch's name,)

I have ALWAYS used titles in the past, on this Forum and everywhere in the Internet.   But I saw in the Admin's post that it is not required here.  Go back two or three posts (Post 10) and you will see:

"Meletios was Archbishop of Athens and was kicked out."

So what is wrong with my writing:

"it was about Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America."

However, let's not derail this thread.

I'll tell you whats wrong.
You are quoting Fr. Anastasios from a post he made dated 05 June 2003. That's nearly six years ago. Our forum rules have developed since then. The fact that you had to find a post of Fr. Anastasios which was six years old to "prove" your point should tell you something.
Do you wish to discuss this further?

George,

Time means very little.  This Forum has been set up to bring to our attention (at the bottom of each page) threads which are relevant.  I often read them and I rarely pay attention to the dates.   One presumes that what Fr Anastasios wrote was right and correct.

It was not a matter of "having" to find a post to prove a point.  That is a quite erroneous assumption on your part.   I looked at the threads on the bottom of the webpage (which I presume we are being encouraged to do.)  I found an interesting message from Fr Anastasios about the transmission of the Greek Americans from the control of Athens to the EP.  I posted it.   I did not look at the date.  His facts, whenever he wrote them,  are just as true today as tomorrow.  The purpose of my posting should be plain enough;  it is relevant to the lecture of Archimandrite Elpidophoros.


But you ALSO used the six-year-old post to support your claim that you don't have to attach titles to bishops' names, even though you seem to know quite well what our current policy is.  This is where the passage of time becomes central to our understanding.
I have ALWAYS used titles in the past, on this Forum and everywhere in the Internet.   But I saw in the Admin's post that it is not required here. Go back two or three posts (Post 10) and you will see:

"Meletios was Archbishop of Athens and was kicked out."

So what is wrong with my writing:

"it was about Philip who is currently the Archbishop of America."

However, let's not derail this thread.
Current policy does not depend on what an Admin did SIX YEARS AGO.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:53:14 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2009, 07:53:32 PM »
Absolutely not! I am advising the entire Self-Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese of America to schism and declare itself autocephalous.

When did "schism" come into use as a verb?  It is not in my Oxford nor Merriam-Webster as a verb.  But I have noticed that some American Orthodox have started to use it as a verb.
Languages evolve.  Get used to it.

Perhaps an good analogy would be that rules on a forum evolve and that finding something six years old may not be an accurate indication of current usage. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:53:23 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2009, 08:23:21 PM »
Perhaps an good analogy would be that rules on a forum evolve and that finding something six years old may not be an accurate indication of current usage. 

It was less than 5 years ago, and it is hard to believe that the ways of referring to hierarchs has changed in that time.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:53:32 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2009, 08:26:35 PM »
You're right, Ambrose ::)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:53:39 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2009, 08:57:55 PM »
You're right, Ambrose ::)

Well, nobody has called me anything but "Father Ambrose" since 1978.  Even my own Mum, God rest her.

But then, I'm not a hierarch.   ;D

Sorry, I had better mention that one group of people who insist on plain old "Ambrose" are the Catholic nuns in town but they exist in ever decreasing numbers...
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:53:48 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2009, 08:59:22 PM »
I have just noticed the title of this thread.

IT  IS  A  LIE!

Would you please chagne it.

Many thanks,

Hieromonk Ambrose
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:51:22 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline Anastasios

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2009, 09:06:27 PM »
Quote from: Irish Hermit link=topic=20270.msg302229#msg302229
Time means very little.  This Forum has been set up to bring to our attention (at the bottom of each page) threads which are relevant.  I often read them and I rarely pay attention to the dates.   One presumes that what Fr Anastasios wrote was right and correct.

That is why I have a disclaimer in my signature line--you could find old posts of mine where I defend ecumenism. When I co-founded this site, I was not even Orthodox yet! This site was originally founded by three friends aged 18-21 who wanted to make a place to learn about Orthodoxy since all three of us were on our way there.  It was very laid back and had little structure. Over time it has developed into one of if not the world's largest Orthodox message board.  Over time policies and procedures have changed dramatically.

Quote
It was not a matter of "having" to find a post to prove a point.  That is a quite erroneous assumption on your part.   I looked at the threads on the bottom of the webpage (which I presume we are being encouraged to do.)  I found an interesting message from Fr Anastasios about the transmission of the Greek Americans from the control of Athens to the EP.  I posted it.   I did not look at the date.  His facts, whenever he wrote them,  are just as true today as tomorrow.  The purpose of my posting should be plain enough;  it is relevant to the lecture of Archimandrite Elpidophoros.



I don't doubt you did that but the problem is to then cite my lack of formality as a reason not to do it now.

Let's all take the time to just put the proper title in front of a hierarch and not refer to them with abbreviations or just their first name. This is a request to everyone. Thank you.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:53:59 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2009, 09:13:06 PM »
[Let's all take the time to just put the proper title in front of a hierarch and not refer to them with abbreviations or just their first name. This is a request to everyone. Thank you.

Father,

Could you please change the title of this thread.   It is proclaiming a lie about me.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:54:08 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2009, 09:16:09 PM »
[Let's all take the time to just put the proper title in front of a hierarch and not refer to them with abbreviations or just their first name. This is a request to everyone. Thank you.

Father,

Could you please change the title of this thread.   It is proclaiming a lie about me.
I'm confused why you are offended at the title of the thread when it was your contention that you don't have to use a hierarch's title, because I did not do so six years ago in a long-forgotten post?

What do you think would be a fair name for me to change the thread to?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:54:15 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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Offline Innocent

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2009, 09:21:23 PM »
sometimes you just have to laugh at this stuff!  ::)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:51:10 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2009, 09:28:40 PM »
[Let's all take the time to just put the proper title in front of a hierarch and not refer to them with abbreviations or just their first name. This is a request to everyone. Thank you.

Father,

Could you please change the title of this thread.   It is proclaiming a lie about me.
I'm confused why you are offended at the title of the thread when it was your contention that you don't have to use a hierarch's title, because I did not do so six years ago in a long-forgotten post?

What do you think would be a fair name for me to change the thread to?

Father, examine every one of my posts.    In all of them, hundreds of them, I have always used a title preceding the names of bishops and priests.   The ONE exception is today, about two hours ago, when I was aping your post.

For you to contend that I am advocating abandoning respect for hierarchs by omitting their titles certainly shows confusion.

Please change the title to whatever you want provided it is in conformity with truth.

Since the whole thread is a bit ridiculous and I have no idea why Ukiemeister created it I would actually recommend deleting it.

Hieromonk Ambrose
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:51:01 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

Offline Anastasios

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2009, 09:32:21 PM »
I take exception with your statement that "I saw in the admin's post that it is not required here."

I do not want people to have the impression that I think it's ok that people omit a hierarch's title based on a six year old post. I feel that you are misrepresenting me.

If you will admit that you were mistaken on this point, and that *I* do not in fact advocate not using a hierarch's title, then I will change this thread's title, and lock it.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:50:50 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2009, 09:43:38 PM »
I take exception with your statement that "I saw in the admin's post that it is not required here."

I do not want people to have the impression that I think it's ok that people omit a hierarch's title based on a six year old post. I feel that you are misrepresenting me.

If you will admit that you were mistaken on this point, and that *I* do not in fact advocate not using a hierarch's title, then I will change this thread's title, and lock it.

Dear Father,  As I said I do not bother checking dates for the threads which the software adds to the bottom of the pages.  I just read them and learn.

I've revisited your 4 year old plus post and I see that you were a Catholic at the time.  I know very well how Catholics these days omit the titles from the names of their bishops and priests and simply call them Joe or Ben or Brian. In fact the local Cardinal insisted, at our first meeting, that I call him Tom.

So I now understand that you now have a more formal approach to the use of titles.  I can applaud that.  I can see that you now advocate using a hierarch's title.   I was mistaken to think that what you were doing back when is indicative of your approach today.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:50:19 PM by Fr. Anastasios »

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Re: Clarification of policy on using hiearchs' titles
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2009, 09:47:13 PM »
Thank you Father. I will change the title of this thread and lock it. I am glad we could come to an understanding.

Fr Anastasios
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:50:38 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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