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Author Topic: Life on other planets?  (Read 9415 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: March 30, 2009, 01:08:19 AM »

I did see some unexplainable things way back when organic peyote was popular...
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« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2009, 12:10:00 PM »

Thank you for the information.  I have not found this particular picture yet.  One question that occurs to me is when the picture was made and by whom?  Another thought is that there are round cushions sometimes used in Japan.  So a "saucer" is not necessarily be a stereotypical "flying saucer" as in the movies.

I have no difficulty in taking Nichiren's account of an incident as what he himself experienced.  But that does not mean that the beings in his vision or whatever it was are necessarily corporeal as are human beings and any theoretical sentients from another planet. 

I have no difficulty in believing in the existence of, as you wrote, "extra dimensional life" as a Christian along with life that is corporeal as are human beings on Earth. 

Ebor

I am back home today and will look around but I talked to a knowledgeable friend and he does not think the woodblock is on-line anywhere. I think you will need to buy a copy of Rev. Kubota's book from the Kempon Hokke Shu to see it.

Having seen it, I think there is little elbow room to explain the saucer away as a cushion or a Lotus Blossom etc. It is what we all have seen before in terms of a Saucer, with a a cockpit and two little "aliens" sitting inside.

This was also not a "vision". Nichiren's account said he and his guards were awakened by "a great wind" and went outside and saw it :"Hanging in the air from a plum tree" . The wood block shows the craft hovering above a tree.

Nichiren was not alone. He said some of the guards became very frightend and ran away but others stayed with him. This was an actual experience. He conversed with the beings but unfortunately did not disclose what they said to him. He identified them  as Bodhisattva's ( roughly equivalent to Christian Style Angles) who had come down from heaven. 
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« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2009, 12:46:11 PM »

This universe and the forms in it are unique and change is of the very essence of creation and not a product of the fall.

I love Father John, but I have an issue with what he says in red above. If creation was subjected to futility, as St. Paul says, would this not also include the universe? Or does our fall only effect the earth?

…how could any being, on any other planet, NOT be tainted by our fall?

True, it would seem that all within the Universe are tainted......at least it would seem that way. There is a sense of beauty in knowing that God will save the Kosmos.
Universal decay & the eventual Recapitulation of all things seem to compliment each other.


Quote
St. Symeon the New Theologian:

Adam was created with a body that was incorrupt, even though material and not yet spiritual, and he was placed by the Creator God as an immortal king over an incorrupt world, not only over Paradise, but also over the whole creation which was under the heavens… This whole creation in the beginning was incorrupt and was created by God in the manner of Paradise.

[St. Symeon makes it clear that man is on a level of leadership/intelligence unrivaled in all of creation.]

Quote
God knew that our race would multiply to an infinite, innumerable multitude on the earth.

[And here he further makes it clear that mankind as a whole is destined to remain “earth-bound” until the end of this age… i.e. the true Second Coming of Christ]


Quote
Through sin, the cosmos [the universe as a whole] became a place of death and corruption.
-St. Maximus the Confessor

Quote
At the fall the entire visible creation fell into corruption along with man.”
The Patristic Understanding of the Cosmos before the Fall, by Hieromonk Damascene
http://mihaicaragiu.blogspot.com/2008/12/patristic-understanding-of-cosmos.html




In order for any of us to survive in space, we would have to take the "Earth" with us. Men already traveled around the Earth in a space ship, and we already landed on the Moon, but in order for us to live outthere for the long term, we need to take the life(eco-system) of the Planet with us. We would have to mimic Earth, in order to live in space. So a spaceship would have to act like a mini-Earth.......or else we won't survive. There is nothing in the Faith that says we can't multiply the life of the Earth outside of the planet. There is nothing that says we can't have mini-Earths(spaceships/space stations) all over our solar system.

I'm not saying humanity as a whole will live in space. All I'm saying is, some men can live in space......but in order to do so, we will need to take and copy the eco-system of Earth.




JNORM888



Hello ! Isn't there a passage in scripture that say's ,though you hide among the stars i shall find you... I interped it  as ,eventually people will move to other planets , I could be wrong...
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« Reply #93 on: April 02, 2009, 01:00:11 PM »

All programs that i watched about the abducted by alien's  the ones on the talk shows all seem to have one thing in common,there sexual organs were fondled by the aliens...HaHaHaHa

So the alien came a great distance just to do that...HuhHuh
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« Reply #94 on: April 02, 2009, 01:50:58 PM »


How would they know anything about the White House?  Considering what Earth looks like from Space at night, there are brighter/more populous places to go.  Granted in the classic version of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" the saucer did land in Washington DC. 

You know of persons who have been "abducted" more than once?

Or it could be imaginary.  What solid proof do you know of that confirms such an abduction?

Ebor
Forgive me for being away for so long.
In response to your first comment, I would agree. My point was just that it seemed bizarre that these "aliens" never seem to openly declare their existence.
On your second comment I am confused. Are you asking if I personally know people that have been abducted? If so no. 
On to your third comment. I am arguing that these "aliens" are, in fact, demonic. Why would spiritual beings leave solid evidence like we would find at a crime scene? I think that it is on your shoulders to explain why so many people the world over are experiencing these "aliens". If it is all a figment of imagination, what is triggering this phenomenon across the globe?
He is a medical doctor who has conducted research on hallucinogenic drugs, not alien abductions.  Yes, he wrote a book called DMT: The Spirit Molecule which is an hallucinogen.  that is not the same thing as persons or incidents of physical encounters/abductions.  What the subjects of Dr. Strassman's studies experienced were inside their minds. So Dr. Strassman's observations are not of "other-worldly visitors" same sense as 'flying saucers' or extra-terrestrial physical individual entities, things that might be photographed or leave physical traces.
Some have posited that N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) could actually give the user a glimpse into another reality, demonic, etc. Why does it somehow negate the experience if it is within a person's mind? Many users of DMT say that it is nothing like other hallucinogens. The same has been suggested of the hallucinogen Dipropyltryptamine (DPT). Hallucinogens have been used by cultures for thousands of years, not to get "High", but for religious purposes. One of which was/is to contact the gods/higher beings. Could these drugs give others an awareness of other, perhaps demonic, realities? I tend to think so.
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« Reply #95 on: April 02, 2009, 01:52:17 PM »

All programs that i watched about the abducted by alien's  the ones on the talk shows all seem to have one thing in common,there sexual organs were fondled by the aliens...HaHaHaHa

So the alien came a great distance just to do that...HuhHuh

Why do you even post such garbage?
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« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2009, 04:31:50 PM »

All programs that i watched about the abducted by alien's  the ones on the talk shows all seem to have one thing in common,there sexual organs were fondled by the aliens...HaHaHaHa

So the alien came a great distance just to do that...HuhHuh

Why do you even post such garbage?

Jeez, Stash, no more Star Trek for you! Wink
And no more eating before bedtime, in case your subconscious decides to play old re-runs of 'em while you're sleeping! Cheesy
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« Reply #97 on: April 02, 2009, 05:14:21 PM »

Forgive me for being away for so long.
In response to your first comment, I would agree. My point was just that it seemed bizarre that these "aliens" never seem to openly declare their existence.

Why?  When humans are observing other forms of life (animals in the wild is what I have in mind) they often observe in ways to not interact with the creatures.

Quote
On your second comment I am confused. Are you asking if I personally know people that have been abducted? If so no. 

That was what I was asking.  I think that there may have been some confusion in posts.

Quote
On to your third comment. I am arguing that these "aliens" are, in fact, demonic.

I understand that. But how do you *know* that they are "demonic"?  On what basis of data or information do you base this and particularly in cases where people claim that there is physical evidence of encounters or that the creatures were corporeal as you or I are.

Quote
Why would spiritual beings leave solid evidence like we would find at a crime scene?

But I don't think that it is established that any such beings are spiritual as opposed to physical and mortal.

[qupte]
 I think that it is on your shoulders to explain why so many people the world over are experiencing these "aliens". If it is all a figment of imagination, what is triggering this phenomenon across the globe?
[/quote]

Why?  How many are "so many?"  Some cases have been debunked and some have been shown to be fakes.  Do you have a particular case or cases in mind? 

Quote
He is a medical doctor who has conducted research on hallucinogenic drugs, not alien abductions.  Yes, he wrote a book called DMT: The Spirit Molecule which is an hallucinogen.  that is not the same thing as persons or incidents of physical encounters/abductions.  What the subjects of Dr. Strassman's studies experienced were inside their minds. So Dr. Strassman's observations are not of "other-worldly visitors" same sense as 'flying saucers' or extra-terrestrial physical individual entities, things that might be photographed or leave physical traces.
Some have posited that N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) could actually give the user a glimpse into another reality, demonic, etc. Why does it somehow negate the experience if it is within a person's mind? Many users of DMT say that it is nothing like other hallucinogens. The same has been suggested of the hallucinogen Dipropyltryptamine (DPT). Hallucinogens have been used by cultures for thousands of years, not to get "High", but for religious purposes. One of which was/is to contact the gods/higher beings. Could these drugs give others an awareness of other, perhaps demonic, realities? I tend to think so.


Who are the "some" please?  Dr. Strassman is a scientist who is studying this substance.  But physical encounters and hallucinations are different things. 


« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 05:15:05 PM by Ebor » Logged

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« Reply #98 on: April 02, 2009, 11:59:35 PM »

At the risk of never being taken seriously again, let me tell you about the UFO I saw several years ago.

I was on the highway going to an appointment early in the evening around dusk. This highway is  very well traveled and there were other cars going each direction, north and south. In the distance I saw a very very bright light in the sky. It was as bright as burning magnesium . I remembered something I had heard off-hand that people often mistake the planet Venus for a UFO and started to say to myself that this must be Venus. However, it was much lower in the sky and 1000 times brighter than a merely glowing planet in the sky.

As I got closer I saw something I will never forget. The glowing light was above and linked to an actual craft. It was as large as a four or five story building. It looked like two pyramids linked together one on top and one on the bottom. It had what looked like two head lights in the front like the headlights on a Chevy Stingray. The bright light was about 1000 yards above it and there was a thin ray of light linking the bright light and the craft..............Did I mention it was as large as a four or five story building? It was hovering above a shopping complex and a hi-rise apartment building.

I slowed down and looked hard at it. I considered stopping but I became frightened and disoriented at seeing something that was very hard to believe was really there. It gave off a low humming tone.

I went to my appointment and drove home. It was gone when I went back the same way. I told my dear wife and kids what I had seen. My family knows me as very level headed and believed me.

I was not particularly interested in UFO's. It was not a subject I was interested in. My wife was more interested and knew more about such things. But, I cant deny that I saw this. It hasn't really affected me nor am I now a UFO buff by any means. I am just a person who saw a craft as big as a building hovering above a populated area off the highway. I cant explain it. I just saw what I saw.....Go figure. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 12:01:44 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #99 on: April 03, 2009, 12:06:23 AM »

At the risk of never being taken seriously again, let me tell you about the UFO I saw several years ago.

A UFO story won't cause us to take you less seriously... Everyone who sticks around for more than 1 post shouldn't be taken seriously (says the guy with 11,000+).
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« Reply #100 on: April 03, 2009, 11:43:13 AM »

Why?  When humans are observing other forms of life (animals in the wild is what I have in mind) they often observe in ways to not interact with the creatures.
I understand that. But how do you *know* that they are "demonic"?  On what basis of data or information do you base this and particularly in cases where people claim that there is physical evidence of encounters or that the creatures were corporeal as you or I are.
But I don't think that it is established that any such beings are spiritual as opposed to physical and mortal.
I think that it is on your shoulders to explain why so many people the world over are experiencing these "aliens". If it is all a figment of imagination, what is triggering this phenomenon across the globe?
Why?  How many are "so many?"  Some cases have been debunked and some have been shown to be fakes.  Do you have a particular case or cases in mind?
Who are the "some" please?  Dr. Strassman is a scientist who is studying this substance.  But physical encounters and hallucinations are different things.
On your first point, I would have to say that I never considered that. I quite like that idea (from the view that these aliens are in fact aliens, and not demonic). It doesn't really stand up to the notion of the aliens being demonic, but I like it none-the-less.

On your second point: I don't know it for a fact, I believe it to be the case. An excellent book that I own that argues for my position is found here:http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Intrusion-Gary-Bates/dp/0890514356/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t While I don't agree with everything that he has to say (he is a Protestant Evangelical), a lot of the cases he brings up are persuading enough to me. The physical evidence that you speak of usually involves injuries to the "abductees" i.e. scratches, cuts, lacerations, bruises... The demonic can produce this sort of phenomenon. They can also appear to have corporeal "bodies" ( I will not tire you with the "Angel of Light" quotes).

On your third point you are correct. There are many views espoused in the UFO community, one of which is that it is demonic in origin.

On your fourth point I will agree that many cases are fakes/frauds, but there is such a super-abundance of material that has not been debunked and looks genuine, that I am swayed by some of the cases. The evidence has been linked above, but is certainly not exhaustive.

On your fifth point the some would be Daniel Pinchbeck's book found here:http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Open-Head-Psychedelic-Contemporary/dp/0767907434/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238773029&sr=1-1 He is of the persuasion that DMT and other hallucinogens do open up other realities to us that are in fact real. This is not just his opinion. He quotes from many, many people, from scientists to shamans, etc. Another book that speaks of this is found here:http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Drugs-Einstein-Elves-Transcendence/dp/1890572179/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238773181&sr=1-1 Yes, I am aware that this particular book has a ridiculous title, but it does bring up some interesting points. What I was saying in regards to these men, and the shamanic use of hallucinogens was that they understand what they see and experience to be true encounters, not just hallucinations. Other realities, perhaps demonic.
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« Reply #101 on: April 03, 2009, 05:17:15 PM »

At the risk of never being taken seriously again, let me tell you about the UFO I saw several years ago.

A UFO story won't cause us to take you less seriously... Everyone who sticks around for more than 1 post shouldn't be taken seriously (says the guy with 11,000+).

Agreed.

-Nick
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« Reply #102 on: April 03, 2009, 09:27:57 PM »

At the risk of never being taken seriously again, let me tell you about the UFO I saw several years ago.

A UFO story won't cause us to take you less seriously... Everyone who sticks around for more than 1 post shouldn't be taken seriously (says the guy with 11,000+).

Agreed.

-Nick

Thanks...
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« Reply #103 on: April 03, 2009, 10:15:07 PM »

.... and someone who has the Three Stooges as his avatar can't be all that bad, either!  laugh laugh
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« Reply #104 on: April 04, 2009, 11:30:29 PM »

At the risk of never being taken seriously again, let me tell you about the UFO I saw several years ago.

A UFO story won't cause us to take you less seriously... Everyone who sticks around for more than 1 post shouldn't be taken seriously (says the guy with 11,000+).


.... and someone who has the Three Stooges as his avatar can't be all that bad, either!  laugh laugh

LOL!!!   laugh
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« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2009, 03:38:24 PM »

Not a frequent poster, and this one lean's towards the oddball category, so others will have to judge.

1. I've seen 11 UFOs in my life, two of them were being "chased" by jets out of Patterson AF Base (prob. cause that was the nearest one at the time). At least 2 in retrospect were likely sighting mistakes...things that later were probably airplanes/jets. One I have no idea what it was but I and about 15 others saw this oblong orange ball in the sky float (N to S more or less) for several minutes and then just fade away..visually it appeared about the size of foot ball held at arm's length (but of course much bigger being at a distance). And 1 was definately a plane, though at first it seemed otherwise...I tried very hard to get it to abduct me (I was 17 and stupid) trying to wave it down as its lights swept across the pasture where I was camping with a friend....but it was just a low flying cargo plane. I was disappointed and my friend relieved.

2. Older and wiser I am now inclined to regard most supposed UFO encounters as being of spiritually unwholesome origin. I don't know this...but suspect that it is an accurate ascessment.

3. I don't see the discussion of alien life as necessarily foolish, though it can be. At heart it is a theological question, "What is man?" How we address the question of potential material sentiant life other than our own has a lot to say about who and what we understand ourselves to be.

4. The article by Fr. John Romanides was very interesting, but it raises the question if there is other intellegent life out there which like us is called to be divinized, then can they join the Church?  Could an ET ever be a priest or a Bishop?

5. I would have to also wonder what spiritual structures/bodies/teachings would they have prior to meeting us?

6. While I have serious doubts of other intellegent life out there, though I'm more open to lesser types of life, I sometimes wonder if man could eventually tinker up other sentient life forms out of creatures we have with us already (monkeys, apes, dogs, parrots, raccons, etc.). If so what does that mean about them and us and the Church? Could they join, be baptized, commune, enter holy orders, etc?  Would they not be essentially "aliens" as Fr. John described them, except they are from here, not out there?

Would polyphonic singing by a choir of sentient parrots be less liturgically problematic for them than it is for some human Orthodox?

I know it sounds silly on the surface, but whole question, once past the silliness, forces you to think about some very serioius theology concerning Orthodox anthropology and man's person and place in the univers.
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« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2009, 08:10:11 PM »

This universe and the forms in it are unique and change is of the very essence of creation and not a product of the fall.

I love Father John, but I have an issue with what he says in red above. If creation was subjected to futility, as St. Paul says, would this not also include the universe? Or does our fall only effect the earth?

…how could any being, on any other planet, NOT be tainted by our fall?

True, it would seem that all within the Universe are tainted......at least it would seem that way. There is a sense of beauty in knowing that God will save the Kosmos.
Universal decay & the eventual Recapitulation of all things seem to compliment each other.


Quote
St. Symeon the New Theologian:

Adam was created with a body that was incorrupt, even though material and not yet spiritual, and he was placed by the Creator God as an immortal king over an incorrupt world, not only over Paradise, but also over the whole creation which was under the heavens… This whole creation in the beginning was incorrupt and was created by God in the manner of Paradise.

[St. Symeon makes it clear that man is on a level of leadership/intelligence unrivaled in all of creation.]

Quote
God knew that our race would multiply to an infinite, innumerable multitude on the earth.

[And here he further makes it clear that mankind as a whole is destined to remain “earth-bound” until the end of this age… i.e. the true Second Coming of Christ]


Quote
Through sin, the cosmos [the universe as a whole] became a place of death and corruption.
-St. Maximus the Confessor

Quote
At the fall the entire visible creation fell into corruption along with man.”
The Patristic Understanding of the Cosmos before the Fall, by Hieromonk Damascene
http://mihaicaragiu.blogspot.com/2008/12/patristic-understanding-of-cosmos.html




In order for any of us to survive in space, we would have to take the "Earth" with us. Men already traveled around the Earth in a space ship, and we already landed on the Moon, but in order for us to live outthere for the long term, we need to take the life(eco-system) of the Planet with us. We would have to mimic Earth, in order to live in space. So a spaceship would have to act like a mini-Earth.......or else we won't survive. There is nothing in the Faith that says we can't multiply the life of the Earth outside of the planet. There is nothing that says we can't have mini-Earths(spaceships/space stations) all over our solar system.

I'm not saying humanity as a whole will live in space. All I'm saying is, some men can live in space......but in order to do so, we will need to take and copy the eco-system of Earth.




JNORM888



Hello ! Isn't there a passage in scripture that say's ,though you hide among the stars i shall find you... I interped it  as ,eventually people will move to other planets , I could be wrong...


There maybe a scripture like that. I gotta find it. Personally I don't see a problem with it. Infact, I think christians should try and build a monastic or semi-monastic community in space.









JNORM888
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« Reply #107 on: April 09, 2009, 01:07:19 PM »

I vote we hook up with the Russians, and get a monastic colony or two going on Mars...the new High Thebaid.

Of course we must be prepared for the inevitable calendar controversy given the maritan year is twice as long as earth's.
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« Reply #108 on: April 09, 2009, 09:03:52 PM »

I vote we hook up with the Russians, and get a monastic colony or two going on Mars...the new High Thebaid.

Of course we must be prepared for the inevitable calendar controversy given the maritan year is twice as long as earth's.
I can see it now: one faction which observes a lunar calendar based on Phobos complains that the other faction, which follows Deimos, fails to celebrate the feast of St. Delacroix of New Vladivostok Base every 134th Martian year.
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« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2009, 11:03:05 PM »


1. I've seen 11 UFOs in my life,
I've seen one once when I was younger, though I'm fairly sure it was a rock my brother threw at me.
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« Reply #110 on: April 10, 2009, 01:39:03 PM »

Quote
I've seen one once when I was younger, though I'm fairly sure it was a rock my brother threw at me.

Wouldn't that be an identified flying object then?

In my own distant youth my brother and I along with our cousins looked forward the the end of the corn harvest, and the later plowing under.  We would have dirt clod wars. It was great.  We would rip up dead grazed down corn stalks with heavy clumps of earth clinging to their roots and hurl them across the field, and while they fell we would stoop down and snatch up a couple of hard lumps and whip them at the other side so they would be too busy dodging them to miss getting hit by the flying corn stalks.

Normally the dirt clods though hard enough to stay together when thrown broke apart easy enough when they hit...so no damage done.  But occasionally someone would pick up a ball of sun hardened clay that stung like all get out when it landed.

good times. good times...well back to outer space.

Oh..and yes I did see 11...the funny thing is I no longer remember seeing 11...I remember remembering how high I had counted my own sightings back when I actually did remember them. Now I only actually remember three or four of the more noteworthy ones.
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« Reply #111 on: April 10, 2009, 01:42:50 PM »


1. I've seen 11 UFOs in my life,
I've seen one once when I was younger, though I'm fairly sure it was a rock my brother threw at me.

Was it as big as a five story building?   Smiley
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« Reply #112 on: November 02, 2011, 01:19:41 AM »

I vote we hook up with the Russians, and get a monastic colony or two going on Mars...the new High Thebaid.

Of course we must be prepared for the inevitable calendar controversy given the maritan year is twice as long as earth's.


Then why not have two calenders? One universal Earthian church Calender and another according to whatever other planet one is on.

Only one Calender would be needed on spaceships and space-stations. Since we are from Earth, our Calender should go wherever we go.
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« Reply #113 on: November 02, 2011, 09:03:21 AM »

Then why not have two calenders?

Because all other calendars are the Devil!!!
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« Reply #114 on: November 02, 2011, 09:50:13 AM »

I vote we hook up with the Russians, and get a monastic colony or two going on Mars...the new High Thebaid.

Of course we must be prepared for the inevitable calendar controversy given the maritan year is twice as long as earth's.


Then why not have two calenders? One universal Earthian church Calender and another according to whatever other planet one is on.

Only one Calender would be needed on spaceships and space-stations. Since we are from Earth, our Calender should go wherever we go.

Given time dilation, it would take some planning to keep the calendars in sync. Imagine the problems if the astromonks came back to earth and they found their calendar was now 6 months off.
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