OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 22, 2014, 11:50:14 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Consecrating Churches In America  (Read 798 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Online Online

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« on: March 19, 2009, 01:17:51 AM »

This topic has been split off from this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,20240.0.html
ozgeorge



The Byzantine Empire is dead. When will the patriarchates in the east realize that?

You tell 'em Tamara! Go on, show them you guys mean business and declare yourselves autocephalous from your former Patriarchate! Shake off the Shackles of Antioch, Jerusalem, Constantinople and Alexandria!
PLEASE!

Like this?
Quote
A Brief History of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocesan Cathedral of the Holy Trinity
Archbishop Athenagoras, later Ecumenical Patriarch (1947–72) consecrated the Cathedral on October 22, 1933 and characterized it as "The Cathedral of all of Hellenism in America."
The prophetic words of Archbishop Iakovos are as true today as when first uttered in 1960: “The Cathedral of all of Hellenism in America.” “The Cathedral is not meant to be solely a religious center or simply a place of worship or a home of Christian benevolence. It must be made to symbolize America’s Greek Orthodox Church and Community and in general to reflect the entire Hellenic "Omogenia.’
http://www.thecathedral.goarch.org/vsItemDisplay.dsp&objectID=E9AED050-369E-48B6-BC125D72FB79A659&method=display

Can any one name the bishop who originally consecrated this cathedral back in 1892? Did a bishop consecrate it?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 01:51:31 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,469


WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 01:44:45 AM »

Can any one name the bishop who originally consecrated this cathedral back in 1892? Did a bishop consecrate it?

Back in those days, there were no Bishops to consecrate Greek speaking Orthodox Churches.

The Consecration of my Church took place in 1938 which was 1 year after the Church relocated roughly 8 blocks West from its former location.  Before 1938, no one was around to consecrate Churches especially those which were founded in the 1900's or before.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Online Online

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 06:47:22 AM »

Can any one name the bishop who originally consecrated this cathedral back in 1892? Did a bishop consecrate it?

Back in those days, there were no Bishops to consecrate Greek speaking Orthodox Churches.

The Consecration of my Church took place in 1938 which was 1 year after the Church relocated roughly 8 blocks West from its former location.  Before 1938, no one was around to consecrate Churches especially those which were founded in the 1900's or before.

Isnt' this a little problematic?  I mean, you need a bishop to consecrate a Church.

Is that what this was all about?

Quote
The third challenge of Orthodoxy in America concerns the manner of its ecclesiastical organization. The Orthodox faithful organized themselves in communities of lay people, who, in turn, became identified with the ecclesiastical community in the manner of the traditional organization of Christian communities. Thus, the parish (κοινότητα) being now governed by lay elected members, builds its own Church, school and other such institutions, and provides the priest’s salary. Such communal organization improves, as it is right and desirable, the role of laity in Church administration, and increases the sense of responsibility and participation in the life of the Church, offering thus the change to the Church to profit of its talented and able parishioners. On the other hand, however, four very concrete dangers lurk behind such a communal organization of the local Church:

a)   That the priest might become alienated from his administrative duties, and from being the spiritual leader of the parish would become a clerk of the parish council,

b)   That the parishioners would find it difficult to comprehend the rules according to which the Church is governed and instead they would follow their own secular reasoning,

c)   That the structures of the parish would become influenced by the prevalent Protestant models and thus they would replicate and imitate practices that are foreign to the Spirit of Orthodoxy, and

d)   That the parishes would degenerate into nothing more than membership clubs, invested with some ecclesiastical resemblance.


I notice that he avoided saying ethnic clubs in the last point.

I wonder if with point c) does the millet model bother him. Perhaps not.  On point b), has he been to Greece lately, in particular Athens. Shocked Shocked Shocked  Administrative duties?  Is that like the father just having his children as wards?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 06:55:12 AM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,469


WWW
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 01:34:12 PM »

Can any one name the bishop who originally consecrated this cathedral back in 1892? Did a bishop consecrate it?

Back in those days, there were no Bishops to consecrate Greek speaking Orthodox Churches.

The Consecration of my Church took place in 1938 which was 1 year after the Church relocated roughly 8 blocks West from its former location.  Before 1938, no one was around to consecrate Churches especially those which were founded in the 1900's or before.

Isnt' this a little problematic?  I mean, you need a bishop to consecrate a Church.

Where would they find one?  The first Church in Baltimore, chartered in 1906, hired a Priest from Washington, DC to celebrate the Divine Liturgy once a month.  Do you think that Bishops from the Church of Greece came and consecrated every Church founded from the 19th Century to 1922 when the GOA was established?  Since there were Russian and Syrian Bishops in the Americas, they consecrated Churches although it is unknown whether they consecrated Greek Orthodox Churches.

One church in Baltimore was established in 1969 but not consecrated until 1999 - the 30th Anniversary of the founding.  A long delay is not unusual.
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 01:49:14 PM »

Many Churches in the GOA were consecrated well after their founding.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Online Online

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 01:59:26 PM »

Many Churches in the GOA were consecrated well after their founding.
Isn't that rather Protestant.  You know, put out an shingle with a cross on it?

That being said, I don't have any doubts, at least with the oldest Greek parish, New Orleans.  It does the GOA proud.  But when claims are made on the basis of it, like the New Smyrna claims, then it becomes an issue.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,469


WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 02:10:25 PM »

Many Churches in the GOA were consecrated well after their founding.
Isn't that rather Protestant.  You know, put out an shingle with a cross on it?

I wouldn't look at it from a Protestant point of view.  The early Priests in America went to school in Greece, were ordained in Greece and were under the omophorion of the Church of Greece.  The Priests who served in early 20th Century America were under the authority of the Church of Greece except She couldn't (or wouldn't or never) send Bishops to establish a ministry in the USA.

That being said, I don't have any doubts, at least with the oldest Greek parish, New Orleans.  It does the GOA proud.  But when claims are made on the basis of it, like the New Smyrna claims, then it becomes an issue.

I don't see an issue - Bishops from other Orthodox Jurisdictions (e.g. Russia) were already in the USA.  New Orleans was a more cosmopolitan city especially during the Civil War when the GOA Church was founded.
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 02:14:59 PM »

Many Churches in the GOA were consecrated well after their founding.
Isn't that rather Protestant.  You know, put out an shingle with a cross on it?

Well, not exactly.  Not even today is every new Church consecrated immediately; the Antimens/Antimitsion gets its use in these parishes.

That being said, I don't have any doubts, at least with the oldest Greek parish, New Orleans.  It does the GOA proud.  But when claims are made on the basis of it, like the New Smyrna claims, then it becomes an issue.

I never put much stock in the New Smyrna claims.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.081 seconds with 35 queries.