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Author Topic: Should Kosmodemyanskaya become Saint Zoya?  (Read 22763 times) Average Rating: 0
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Simkins
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« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2009, 02:25:12 AM »

That has been officially stated in the program at Soviet elementary and middle schools.
Don't recall.

Another note, which confirms this issue can be found here:
http://www.smi.ru/05/04/12/3464309.html

Командир принял решение возвращаться назад. И тогда Зоя пошла наперекор командирской воле: "Пока задание не выполнено, не вернусь. Я иду в Петрищево..."

Translation: The commander made a decision to return. And then Zoya went against the commander's will: "Until the assignment is fulfilled, I will not return. I am going to Petrishchevo".

So she did not want to return because the assignment was not completed. Whats wrong with that?

The terror of Nazis in Poland went beyond terrible. But the officers of both Armia Krajowa and Armia Lodowa, Polish partisan armies, could not even imagene to organize the destruction of homes of peaceful Polish farmers.
So Poles lost the war and very quickly. Didn't they?

As for Katyn, it is not "so much talk", it is commemoration of dead heroes, brutally killed by NKVD.
Brutally? They were just shot. Being killed doesn not qualify someone for the status of a hero, even when one is killed by NKVD. More is needed.

Some teens joined the partisan units after falsifying thier age and pretending that they are older. Of course, this is a heroic desire and it is highly commendable. But such cases transpired, let alone the medical history.
Kosmodemyanskaya did not falsify any documents. What medical history are you talking about?
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« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2009, 02:28:57 AM »

Are you serious??? Please provide the source of your information. LOL.
Come, sit down with me. I'll tell you.
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Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2009, 02:36:05 AM »

Another note, which confirms this issue can be found here:
http://www.smi.ru/05/04/12/3464309.html

Командир принял решение возвращаться назад. И тогда Зоя пошла наперекор командирской воле: "Пока задание не выполнено, не вернусь. Я иду в Петрищево..."

Translation: The commander made a decision to return. And then Zoya went against the commander's will: "Until the assignment is fulfilled, I will not return. I am going to Petrishchevo".

So she did not want to return because the assignment was not completed. Whats wrong with that?
I'll tell you what's wrong with that from my experience as a U.S. Marine.  Obedience to lawful orders is the backbone of good order in any military organization.  Going off and doing what you want because you "haven't accomplished your mission yet" does nothing but destroy this good order.  Zoya didn't have the authority to say that she hadn't completed her assignment yet, for only her commanding officer could have made this decision.  When the CO says you're done, YOU'RE DONE! police
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 02:39:20 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #93 on: March 20, 2009, 02:37:02 AM »

The terror of Nazis in Poland went beyond terrible. But the officers of both Armia Krajowa and Armia Lodowa, Polish partisan armies, could not even imagene to organize the destruction of homes of peaceful Polish farmers.
So Poles lost the war and very quickly. Didn't they?

Have you never heard of the Polish Underground and such events as the Warsaw Uprising?  Or is this in vogue to deny in the neo-Soviet Union as is Katyn and the other crimes of Stalin?  
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« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2009, 02:38:11 AM »

Are you serious??? Please provide the source of your information. LOL.
Come, sit down with me. I'll tell you.
WHAT!!? Huh Shocked  Are you crazy?  Starlight can't sit down with you via an internet connection.  You're going to have to provide your sources here, online.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 02:38:22 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2009, 02:38:35 AM »

Simkins, Have we been subjects of academic experimentation?

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« Reply #96 on: March 20, 2009, 04:30:41 AM »

Simkins, you are obviously fixated and obsessed by the idea that Zoya is a saint, as she gave her life heroically during war. Though you have not once answered any of our questions properly, but have chosen to go off on all sorts of tangents, and thus avoiding legitimate questions such as "did she die because she was defending the Orthodox faith", I send out one more challenge to you:

What is the glaring difference between the life and death of Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya, compared with, say, the life and death of Evgeniy Rodionov, the 19-year-old conscript who was sent to Chechnya in 1996?

We're eagerly awaiting your reply.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 04:45:14 AM by LBK » Logged
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« Reply #97 on: March 20, 2009, 04:47:56 AM »

WHAT!!? Huh Shocked  Are you crazy?  

A truthful answer might contravene forum rules ...  Wink

Starlight can't sit down with you via an internet connection.  You're going to have to provide your sources here, online.

We wait with bated breath for Simkins to come up with the goods.   Grin
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 04:49:06 AM by LBK » Logged
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« Reply #98 on: March 20, 2009, 07:34:05 AM »

Are you serious??? Please provide the source of your information. LOL.
Come, sit down with me. I'll tell you.

On the edge of a precipice.  How apropos.
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« Reply #99 on: March 20, 2009, 04:35:28 PM »

And I would be interested to see where I "openly expressed [my] support for the killers of Zoya". 
In your two posts in the thread.

The Second World War was a dreadful time for Europe and the World, and terrible things occurred quite often, whether it be by German, or Russian, regular soldier or partisan.  Soldiers were in a bloody business, fighting for their country, as were partisans.
What the Germans have been doing 80 km from Moscow?

These soldiers have likely been away from their home, their families, their loved ones for months or years, have experienced the horrors of warfare,
True: they were very much afraid.

likely have gotten little sleep, their meals contained limited nutrition,
So was Zoya. In addotion she was beaten, forced to walk barefoot on snow and her fingernails were torn off.
Why her face look's different?

morale was likely not at its highest,
Thats what I am talking about.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't be smiling either in what appears to be a candid photograph. 
It's not about  smiling. This is how tired and exhausted people look like

Wounded Manfred von Richthofen, who suffered from terrible headaches

http://www.anzacs.net/Nurse.jpg

Charles Lindbergh after landing in Paris. Did not sleep for 36 hours 25 of which he  flew his airplane sometimes through sleet.

http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresources/image.cfm?imageid=127670&Page=1&Negative=83546&bhcp=1

But the soldiers surrounding Zoya don't look tired and exhausted. They look like suckers.

But how could I forget, German soldiers and civilians were always treated so hospitably by Russian soldiers, with smiles on their faces no less...
Stalin ordered that the officers of 332 Regiment of the 193 Infantry division which murdered Zoya not taken prisoners. Soviet soldiers went further and killed everybody from that regiment.

I refuse to demonise a solider because he is German or because he appears in a photograph with a partisan that is to be executed, it goes against basic common sense.
So you expressed your support for them, which you denied in the begining of you posting.
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« Reply #100 on: March 20, 2009, 04:55:57 PM »

WHAT!!? Huh Shocked  Are you crazy?  

A truthful answer might contravene forum rules ...  Wink
Of course. I am in bad need for psychiatric treatment. Preferably by a Fraudian (sick) Psychoanalist.  Can you recommend someone from your lodge?
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« Reply #101 on: March 20, 2009, 05:05:44 PM »

I'll tell you what's wrong with that from my experience as a U.S. Marine.  Obedience to lawful orders is the backbone of good order in any military organization.  Going off and doing what you want because you "haven't accomplished your mission yet" does nothing but destroy this good order.  Zoya didn't have the authority to say that she hadn't completed her assignment yet, for only her commanding officer could have made this decision.  When the CO says you're done, YOU'RE DONE! police
And I can tell you about something worse. Do you recall how British marines were taken prisoners by the Iranians? How did they explain that they did not offer any resistance to the Iranians? They said that they were afraid that if they do so they could get killed. Thats why the things in Iraq are so bad. No people like Zoya.
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« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2009, 05:09:47 PM »

Dear Simkins, brother,

Rather than blast Freudians, Freemasons, Germans, Americans and whoever else, and defend the heretical theories like coming of Christ to Russia etc., better, brother, ponder on these words - not, mind you, of some Freemason or "liberal," but words of your compatriot, a Russian writer Vladimir Soloukhin:

Желание римского императора  господствовать  над  миром  чудовищно,  но
понятно так же, как любой  другой  могущественной  нации.  Но  здесь-то  чье
господство?  Неужели  только  свое?  Или  своей  группы?  Но  ведь  остается
пять-шесть лет жизни... Ну пусть Сталин потом господствовал тридцать лет, но
все равно, неужели ради этого надо потрошить  народы,  истреблять  физически
лучшую часть каждого  народа,  морить  его  голодом,  держать  в  тюрьмах  и
лагерях, загонять в колхозы, лишив земли, лишив заинтересованности в  труде,
не говоря уже о поэзии труда, о его радостях, хотя и сопряженных с тяжестью.
Труд есть труд. Всякий труд тяжек и связан с потом. Но все  же  когда  он  -
трудовая повинность, он тяжек стократ.
     А еще удивляюсь, как им, если бы даже  и  с  благими  (как  им,  может,
казалось) целями, как им не жалко было пускать на распыл, а фактически убить
и сожрать на перепутье к своим высоким всемирным целям такую  страну,  какой
была Россия, и такой народ, каким был русский народ?  Может  быть,  и  можно
потом восстановить храмы и дворцы, вырастить леса, очистить реки,  можно  не
пожалеть даже об опустошенных выеденных недрах, но  невозможно  восстановить
уничтоженный  генетический  фонд  народа,  который  только  еще  приходил  в
движение, только еще начинал раскрывать свои резервы, только еще  расцветал.
Никто и никогда не вернет  народу  его  уничтоженного  генетического  фонда,
ушедшего в хлюпающие грязью, поспешно вырытые  рвы,  куда  положили  десятки
миллионов лучших, по выбору, по генетическому  именно  отбору  россиян.  Чем
больше  будет  проходить  времени,   тем   больше   будет   сказываться   на
отечественной культуре зияющая брешь, эти перерубленные национальные  корни,
тем сильнее  будет  зарастать  и  захламляться  отечественная  нива  чуждыми
растениями, мелкотравчатой шушерой вместо поднебесных гигантов, о  возможном
росте и характере которых мы теперь не можем и гадать,  потому  что  они  не
прорастут и не вырастут никогда, они погублены даже и не в  зародышах,  а  в
поколениях, которые бы еще только предшествовали им.
     Но  вот  не  будут  предшествовать,  ибо  убиты,  расстреляны,  уморены
голодом, закопаны в землю.
     Гены уходят в землю, и через два-три  десятилетия  не  рождаются  и  не
формируются новые Толстые, Мусоргские, Пушкины, Гоголи, Тургеневы, Аксаковы,
Крыловы, Тютчевы, Феты, Пироговы,  Некрасовы,  Бородины,  Римские-Корсаковы,
Гумилевы,   Цветаевы,   Рахманиновы,   Неждановы,   Вернадские,    Суриковы,
Третьяковы,   Нахимовы,   Яблочкины,   Тимирязевы,   Докучаевы,    Поленовы,
Лобачевские, Станиславские и десятки и  сотни  им  подобных.  Списки  можете
продолжить сами...
     Простое  порабощение  лишает  народ  цветения,  полнокровного  роста  и
духовной жизни в настоящее время. Геноцид, особенно такой  тотальный,  какой
проводился в течение целых десятилетий  в  России,  лишает  народ  цветения,
полнокровной жизни и духовного роста в будущем,  а  особенно  в  отдаленном.
Генетический урон невосполним, и это есть самое печальное  последствие  того
явления, которое мы, захлебываясь от восторга, именуем  Великой  Октябрьской
социалистической революцией.

http://lib.ru/PROZA/SOLOUHIN/bylight.txt
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« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2009, 05:37:22 PM »

Dear Simkins, brother,

Rather than blast Freudians, Freemasons, Germans, Americans and whoever else, and defend the heretical theories like coming of Christ to Russia etc., better, brother, ponder on these words - not, mind you, of some Freemason or "liberal," but words of your compatriot, a Russian writer Vladimir Soloukhin:


Товарищи, говорят иногда, что Б. Пастернак в каких-то определенных датах своей жизни был то лоялен по отношению к нашему обществу и Советской власти, то постепенно отходил от этого, проходя постепенно эволюцию отщепенца. Но мне кажется, что это неверно, так как его поэтическое дарование, комнатное, камерное, — само говорит за себя. Время от времени сквозь его непонятные народу строки проскальзывали совершенно определенные вещи. Возьмите хотя бы такие строфы:

 

Кашне от ветра заслонясь,—

Я крикну в фортку детворе,-

Какое, милые, у нас

Тысячелетье на дворе!

 

И это в то время, когда наша страна переживала какие-то трудности!  Находишь  у  него  еще другие,   более   конкретно выраженные вещи:

 

 

Я слежу за разворотом действий

И играю в них во всех пяти (?)

Я один. Повсюду фарисейство.

Жизнь прожить, не поле перейти.

 

Здесь все очень ярко выражено и очень прямо! Это его изоляция.

 

Напрасно в дни великого совета,

Где высшим строем отданы места,

Оставлена вакансия поэта

Она опасна, если не пуста... (?)

 

Если разобраться в этих строках, то ясно, что настоящий поэт должен находиться в оппозиции к обществу, в котором живет! Вот почему «Доктор Живаго» не является исключением в его творческой биографии. Здесь все закономерно. Говорят, что он не понял гражданской войны, не понял революции. Но мы знаем замечательные примеры обратного, знаем, что А. Толстой, замечательный русский писатель, интеллигент и к тому же граф, — представитель класса, который не принял Октябрьской революции, — написал ярчайшие страницы о гражданской войне, сумел разобраться во всем этом. Знаем, как реагировал на это В. Брюсов, М. Горький — культурнейший человек нашего времени. Это говорит о том, что все это — сознательная проповедь индивидуализма, достойная внутреннего эмигранта.

Об этом же свидетельствует и то, что он не понял, что присуждение ему Нобелевской премии не является фактом содействия развитию культуры и искусства, а лишь политическим актом борьбы с коммунизмом. Разве этого можно не понять? Б. Пастернак совсем не так наивен, как многие из нас думают.

Некоторые товарищи высказывали мысль, что для западного читателя «Доктор Живаго» не так уж интересен, — эмигрантская печать публиковала о нашей стране и о нашем народе вещи еще похлеще. Кроме того, «Доктор Живаго» это вещь о двадцатых годах, по существу, весьма мало интересных, — но эта книга в целом является орудием холодной войны против коммунизма... Разве не мог он это не понять, считая себя таким высоким интеллектом, этой простой, элементарной вещи?

Сейчас идет разговор — поскольку он является внутренним эмигрантом, то не стоит ли ему стать на самом деле эмигрантом? В связи с этим мне вспомнилась такая аналогия. Когда наша партия критиковала ревизионистскую политику Югославии, то были разговоры — а вдруг она окончательно шатнется и уйдет в тот лагерь. И мудрый Мао Дзе-дун в устном выступлении сказал, что этого никогда не будет потому, что американцам нужно, чтобы она была в нашем лагере.

И вот Пастернак, когда станет настоящим эмигрантом, — он там не будет нужен. И нам он не нужен, и о нем скоро забудут. Когда какая-нибудь американская миллионерша попадет в автомобильную катастрофу, то будут о ней шуметь, а Пастернака совершенно забудут. Вот тут и будет для него настоящая казнь. Он там ничего не сможет рассказать интересного, и через месяц его выбросят как съеденное яйцо, как выжатый лимон. И тогда это будет настоящая казнь за предательство, которое он совершил.

http://antology.igrunov.ru/50-s/esse/1084533076.html
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« Reply #104 on: March 20, 2009, 05:38:34 PM »

^^What's that for?
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« Reply #105 on: March 20, 2009, 06:10:18 PM »

^^What's that for?
For you to understand what his words are worth of.
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« Reply #106 on: March 20, 2009, 06:19:50 PM »

Good People,
A couple of things.
Firstly, we have a requirement on this forum that posts in other languages outside of the Other Language forums must be accompanied with an English translation.
Secondly, this is not a news item now, but a debate, so I am moving it to Free For All (Religious Topics) to allow the debate to continue.
Thirdly, tempers need to settle and some semblance of civility needs to start taking place on this thread, so I am temporarily locking it to allow people to calm down.
WHILE IT IS LOCKED, DO NOT OPEN ANOTHER THREAD ON THIS TOPIC. ANYONE WHO DOES SO WILL BE PLACED ON POST MODERATION.

George
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« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2009, 10:26:49 PM »

Good People,
A couple of things.
Firstly, we have a requirement on this forum that posts in other languages outside of the Other Language forums must be accompanied with an English translation.
Secondly, this is not a news item now, but a debate, so I am moving it to Free For All (Religious Topics) to allow the debate to continue.
Thirdly, tempers need to settle and some semblance of civility needs to start taking place on this thread, so I am temporarily locking it to allow people to calm down.
WHILE IT IS LOCKED, DO NOT OPEN ANOTHER THREAD ON THIS TOPIC. ANYONE WHO DOES SO WILL BE PLACED ON POST MODERATION.

George
Global Moderator.


This thead is now unlocked.
Please keep the above in mind when posting.
George
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« Reply #108 on: March 23, 2009, 07:14:31 AM »

^^What's that for?
For you to understand what his words are worth of.

Regardless of what an emigrant's words are worth of, what do you think of the words of Vladimir Soloukhin I quoted? He is certainly no emigrant... (For those who do not read Russian - I quoted a fragment from Soloukhin's book "In the Light of the Day," where he says that the execution of tens of millions of people in Russia by the Bolsheviks could not but damage severely Russia's genetic pool, which means that for at least several more decades there will be, in all probability, no real rebirth of the Russian nation's spirit and culture.)
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« Reply #109 on: March 23, 2009, 05:01:33 PM »

Simkins, you are obviously fixated and obsessed by the idea that Zoya is a saint, as she gave her life heroically during war. Though you have not once answered any of our questions properly, but have chosen to go off on all sorts of tangents, and thus avoiding legitimate questions such as "did she die because she was defending the Orthodox faith", I send out one more challenge to you:

What is the glaring difference between the life and death of Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya, compared with, say, the life and death of Evgeniy Rodionov, the 19-year-old conscript who was sent to Chechnya in 1996?

We're eagerly awaiting your reply.

Now that this thread has been unlocked, what is your answer to this, Simkins?
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« Reply #110 on: March 23, 2009, 09:42:06 PM »

"did she die because she was defending the Orthodox faith"
Orthodox is a mistranslation. (Она умерла за ортодоксальную веру? Конечно нет. Она умерла за православную.) Pravoslavny does not mean "orthodox". It means True Rite or True Beleive. Pravoslavie is the Russian Church of Truth. Zoya was always telling truth. She always defended truth. She died for  Truth. It was Truth   tortured and murdered at Russian Golgotha (Galgenhof) in Petryschevo. But Truth did not surrender. She qonquerred death by death. By doing this Zoya became one with Truth. As Pravoslavna church is also one with Truth, Zoya is one with Pravoslavna church. As such she is the Bride of Christ.
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« Reply #111 on: March 23, 2009, 10:15:44 PM »

"did she die because she was defending the Orthodox faith"
Orthodox is a mistranslation. (Она умерла за ортодоксальную веру? Конечно нет. Она умерла за православную.) Pravoslavny does not mean "orthodox". It means True Rite or True Beleive. Pravoslavie is the Russian Church of Truth. Zoya was always telling truth. She always defended truth. She died for  Truth. It was Truth   tortured and murdered at Russian Golgotha (Galgenhof) in Petryschevo. But Truth did not surrender. She qonquerred death by death. By doing this Zoya became one with Truth. As Pravoslavna church is also one with Truth, Zoya is one with Pravoslavna church. As such she is the Bride of Christ.

Maybe if you shared whatever you are on, it could help me pass my finals...
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« Reply #112 on: March 23, 2009, 10:17:14 PM »

"did she die because she was defending the Orthodox faith"
Orthodox is a mistranslation. (Она умерла за ортодоксальную веру? Конечно нет. Она умерла за православную.) Pravoslavny does not mean "orthodox". It means True Rite or True Beleive. Pravoslavie is the Russian Church of Truth. Zoya was always telling truth. She always defended truth. She died for  Truth. It was Truth   tortured and murdered at Russian Golgotha (Galgenhof) in Petryschevo. But Truth did not surrender. She qonquerred death by death. By doing this Zoya became one with Truth. As Pravoslavna church is also one with Truth, Zoya is one with Pravoslavna church. As such she is the Bride of Christ.

Put down the funny smelling cigarette and back away slowly....
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« Reply #113 on: March 23, 2009, 10:33:41 PM »

"did she die because she was defending the Orthodox faith"
Orthodox is a mistranslation. (Она умерла за ортодоксальную веру? Конечно нет. Она умерла за православную.) Pravoslavny does not mean "orthodox". It means True Rite or True Beleive.

That's what Orthodox means--true belief, true worship (rite). lol
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« Reply #114 on: March 23, 2009, 10:45:30 PM »

I wish someone would translate this book by Vladimir Soloukhin into English. It is called "In the Light of Day," and it is an attempt to shed some light on who Lenin really was. The thing is, Lenin's image was mythologized, embellished not only by the Soviets but also by many sympathizers of the "left idea" as well of the "Holy Mother Russia idea" in the West. Soloukhin analyzes a lot of archive materials and shows that Lenin was indeed a monster, a biological degenerate (his father is very likely to be simultaneously a son and a brother of Lenin's paternal grandmother), a deeply disturbed and, very likely, demonically possessed creature of the abyss. He is directly guilty in the slaughter of millions of people during the Red Terror, the Civil War, and the infamous "expropriation of treasures of the Church" in 1921-22. During his rule and under his direct supervision, Russia forever lost its entire nobility, intelligentsia, the merchant class, and most of its clergy and productive peasantry. And this devil's mummy still lies in its pagan "mausoleum" right next to the Kremlin wall on the Red Square.

The book is not worth translating, because Soloukhin does not have much talent as a writer. Nowadays there are numerous people in internet who write much, much better.

Example:  http://www.arctogaia.com/public/zarya.html .

Note also that the same Soloukhin who "shed some light on who Lenin really was" some time ago in his speech, where he demanded to send Pasternak  in excile for "Doctor Zhivago", spoke of "wise Mao". He also blamed Pasternak for not understanding  revolution. He found particularly wicked a verse where Pasternack opposed Pharisaism.

Now, when it became safe Soloukhin wrote his own anti-Soviet book. But as long as all truth was already spoken he resorted to libels.

Soloukhin concluded his speech with a prophecy that Pasternak will be forgoten and nobody will mention him in the media "after some american millionair will get into a car crash". In reality Pasternak is well remembered.

For example, pravoslavna singer matushka Ludmila named him as her teacher  http://bard.ru/cgi-bin/disk.cgi?disk=1075

It is Soloukhin who is in  the junkyard.

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« Reply #115 on: March 23, 2009, 10:51:38 PM »

That's what Orthodox means--true belief, true worship (rite). lol
Thats in Greek. When you use it in English the meaning is "traditional" or "established". I don't like the word.
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« Reply #116 on: March 23, 2009, 10:59:54 PM »

That's what Orthodox means--true belief, true worship (rite). lol
Thats in Greek. When you use it in English the meaning is "traditional" or "established". I don't like the word.

That's just the munchies talking.
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« Reply #117 on: March 23, 2009, 11:05:56 PM »

Zoya was always telling truth. She always defended truth. She died for  Truth. It was Truth   tortured and murdered at Russian Golgotha (Galgenhof) in Petryschevo. But Truth did not surrender. She qonquerred death by death. By doing this Zoya became one with Truth. As Pravoslavna church is also one with Truth, Zoya is one with Pravoslavna church. As such she is the Bride of Christ.

This is complete blasphemy. Zoya's "truth" was the false, atheist "truth" of Soviet Russia, the atheist "truth" which sent countless Orthodox believers to the gulags, to the gallows, and to the firing squads because they were Orthodox believers. Many, many of these were later rightly proclaimed as saints for being steadfast in their Orthodox faith, against all that the Soviet regime could throw at them. St Benjamin of Petrograd, St Luke of Simferopol', St Michaela of Moscow, St Elizabeth the Grand Duchess, the list goes on. Do not insult their memory, nor the memory of those who may not have been proclaimed saints, but who suffered just as much at the hands of the Soviet regime. May I remind you that there are still many survivors of the Stalinism of the 1920s and 1930s who are still alive (I know at least a dozen personally), and whose stories of those times are still being told, and must be told.

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« Reply #118 on: March 24, 2009, 12:05:08 AM »

Are you serious??? Please provide the source of your information. LOL.
Come, sit down with me. I'll tell you.
WHAT!!? Huh Shocked  Are you crazy?  Starlight can't sit down with you via an internet connection.  You're going to have to provide your sources here, online.
One way to do this is for him to sit down in a similar manner  in his location and take a laptop with a webcam. I do the same. And we can talk. If he can't then, perhaps, the brave marine can take his place?
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« Reply #119 on: March 24, 2009, 12:07:59 AM »

That's just the munchies talking.
No it's not. You know what democracy means in Greek? Peoples power. However in Russia this word (democratia) is a pejorative.
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« Reply #120 on: March 24, 2009, 12:08:38 AM »

Zoya was always telling truth. She always defended truth. She died for  Truth. It was Truth   tortured and murdered at Russian Golgotha (Galgenhof) in Petryschevo. But Truth did not surrender. She qonquerred death by death. By doing this Zoya became one with Truth. As Pravoslavna church is also one with Truth, Zoya is one with Pravoslavna church. As such she is the Bride of Christ.

I vaguely recall Someone saying:
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life- no one comes to the Father but by Me."

I also vaguely recall someone asking:
"Truth"- What is that?
And not realizing the Truth was standing before him.
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« Reply #121 on: March 24, 2009, 12:10:57 AM »

One way to do this is for him to sit down in a similar manner  in his location and take a laptop with a webcam. I do the same. And we can talk. If he can't then, perhaps, the brave marine can take his place?

What brave Marine?
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« Reply #122 on: March 24, 2009, 12:13:37 AM »

That's just the munchies talking.
No it's not. You know what democracy means in Greek? Peoples power. However in Russia this word (democratia) is a pejorative.

Simkins, "medicinal" herbs and the internet aren't exactly the best combination.
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« Reply #123 on: March 24, 2009, 12:14:21 AM »

One way to do this is for him to sit down in a similar manner  in his location and take a laptop with a webcam. I do the same. And we can talk. If he can't then, perhaps, the brave marine can take his place?

What brave Marine?

I'm going to be thoroughly offended if she's talking about me.
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« Reply #124 on: March 24, 2009, 12:18:57 AM »

What brave Marine?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,20146.msg302876.html#msg302876
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« Reply #125 on: March 24, 2009, 12:32:04 AM »

Have you never heard of the Polish Underground and such events as the Warsaw Uprising?
Everybody have heard of these great events which decided the course of the war.

Or is this in vogue to deny in the neo-Soviet Union as is Katyn and the other crimes of Stalin?  
Please show me where I denied Katyn? The event was officially admitted by the Soviet government in late 1980s. So todays story is not about poor slaughtered Szlachta.  It is about Brzezinski plan to divide Russia, which he described in his book "The Grand Chessboard."
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« Reply #126 on: March 24, 2009, 12:37:56 AM »


Oh I see. You are thanking Peter for his Military Service and recognising it.
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« Reply #127 on: March 24, 2009, 12:41:08 AM »

Are you serious??? Please provide the source of your information. LOL.
Come, sit down with me. I'll tell you.
WHAT!!? Huh Shocked  Are you crazy?  Starlight can't sit down with you via an internet connection.  You're going to have to provide your sources here, online.
One way to do this is for him to sit down in a similar manner  in his location and take a laptop with a webcam. I do the same. And we can talk. If he can't then, perhaps, the brave marine can take his place?
Now, why would I want to do that?
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« Reply #128 on: March 24, 2009, 12:44:32 AM »

Listen, Simkins, can you provide answers on line??? Everyone else does that. Your jokes are very strange to say the very least. So are your heretical statements.





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« Reply #129 on: March 24, 2009, 12:48:23 AM »

That doesn't prove anything.  Can you give us the context for Senator McCarthy's opinion?  You do realize also that this was just one man's opinion, regardless of how much of an authority he may have been?  Opinions don't prove anything; only facts do.
In the context of the story of George Catlett Marshall. You can read it yourself and check. It's well written, like Ann Coulter books.
 
Are you also not aware that the Allies forced Germany to fight World War II on two fronts: Russia to the east and the U.S. led forces to the west?  Only Russian nationalism would blind someone to the fact that the U.S. and Great Britain also played a major role in the defeat of Nazi Germany. 
Only russophobia can blind someone to the fact that Russia fought  Germany alone during the hardest years 1941-1942. U.S. and British contribution was limited to bombing of Dresden and Morgenthau plan.

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« Reply #130 on: March 24, 2009, 12:54:21 AM »

But to say that anyone but Russians played any major part in defeat of Germany is a lie.
Can you prove this?
In his book "America's retreat from victory" Senator McCarthy wrote that with German defeat at Stalingrad the WWII had ended and WWIII started. All American effort in the war was to save Western Europe from Communism.


That doesn't prove anything.  Can you give us the context for Senator McCarthy's opinion?  You do realize also that this was just one man's opinion, regardless of how much of an authority he may have been?  Opinions don't prove anything; only facts do.

Are you also not aware that the Allies forced Germany to fight World War II on two fronts: Russia to the east and the U.S. led forces to the west?  Only Russian nationalism would blind someone to the fact that the U.S. and Great Britain also played a major role in the defeat of Nazi Germany.  If not for the Allied assault on Germany's western front, Hitler would have been able to commit much more of his armed might to his invasion of Soviet Russia.

I think you're also confusing World War II with the Cold War that followed.  During WWII, the U.S., Great Britain, and the Soviet Union were actually allies.  Only after the war ended in 1945 did the USSR and her Western allies become estranged, thus starting the Cold War that served as the context for most of McCarthy's political career.

As much as it pains me to say it, Sen. McCarthy was right. Stalingrad was seen as the turning point in WW2, proving that the Soviets would win, with or without the opening of the Western Front....
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« Reply #131 on: March 24, 2009, 01:04:30 AM »

That doesn't prove anything.  Can you give us the context for Senator McCarthy's opinion?  You do realize also that this was just one man's opinion, regardless of how much of an authority he may have been?  Opinions don't prove anything; only facts do.
In the context of the story of George Catlett Marshall. You can read it yourself and check. It's well written, like Ann Coulter books.
Sorry, I spend so much time reading and posting on this forum that I have no time to read the story of George C. Marshall.  You're going to have to share his story on this thread if you want me to read it.  (IOW, I don't want to go to the effort to do what you're too lazy to do yourself.)
 
Are you also not aware that the Allies forced Germany to fight World War II on two fronts: Russia to the east and the U.S. led forces to the west?  Only Russian nationalism would blind someone to the fact that the U.S. and Great Britain also played a major role in the defeat of Nazi Germany. 
Only russophobia can blind someone to the fact that Russia fought  Germany alone during the hardest years 1941-1942. U.S. and British contribution was limited to bombing of Dresden and Morgenthau plan.


So what?  What the Soviet Union did to fight Germany during the early years of the war, though it probably did help soften Germany to the later years, didn't win the war all by itself.  Otherwise, why did it take until 1945 for Germany to finally be subdued and forced to surrender?
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« Reply #132 on: March 24, 2009, 01:14:06 AM »

But to say that anyone but Russians played any major part in defeat of Germany is a lie.
Can you prove this?
In his book "America's retreat from victory" Senator McCarthy wrote that with German defeat at Stalingrad the WWII had ended and WWIII started. All American effort in the war was to save Western Europe from Communism.


That doesn't prove anything.  Can you give us the context for Senator McCarthy's opinion?  You do realize also that this was just one man's opinion, regardless of how much of an authority he may have been?  Opinions don't prove anything; only facts do.

Are you also not aware that the Allies forced Germany to fight World War II on two fronts: Russia to the east and the U.S. led forces to the west?  Only Russian nationalism would blind someone to the fact that the U.S. and Great Britain also played a major role in the defeat of Nazi Germany.  If not for the Allied assault on Germany's western front, Hitler would have been able to commit much more of his armed might to his invasion of Soviet Russia.

I think you're also confusing World War II with the Cold War that followed.  During WWII, the U.S., Great Britain, and the Soviet Union were actually allies.  Only after the war ended in 1945 did the USSR and her Western allies become estranged, thus starting the Cold War that served as the context for most of McCarthy's political career.

As much as it pains me to say it, Sen. McCarthy was right. Stalingrad was seen as the turning point in WW2, proving that the Soviets would win, with or without the opening of the Western Front....
Maybe so...  Maybe so...  I would still like Simkins to prove his claim that only Russia played an important role in the ultimate defeat of Germany in WWII, since his assertion has thus far shown a Russophile nationalism that should shade our view of his veneration and advocacy of "Saint" Zoya.  Maybe Russia could have defeated Germany all by themselves, but they did not provide the only major contributions to the ultimate Allied victory.
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« Reply #133 on: March 24, 2009, 03:25:12 AM »

Maybe so...  Maybe so...  I would still like Simkins to prove his claim that only Russia played an important role in the ultimate defeat of Germany in WWII, since his assertion has thus far shown a Russophile nationalism that should shade our view of his veneration and advocacy of "Saint" Zoya.  Maybe Russia could have defeated Germany all by themselves, but they did not provide the only major contributions to the ultimate Allied victory.

This thread has been completely derailed into tangents which have little to do with the OP's original question, "should Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya be canonised?". Despite many attempts by various posters challenging Simkins to provide us with a cogent, proper argument supporting his position, he has not been forthcoming. Instead, he has either hidden behind the skirts of philosophical and historical tangents (and his grasp of history is sorely lacking!), or, blathered on like a lovestruck, drooling teenager about his "beloved" Zoya.

Worse, by his revisionist and blasphemous statements, he has shown not a shred of respect or reverence for genuine saints, nor for Christ, who alone "trampled down death by death", nor of those folks, living or dead, who suffered for the Orthodox faith under Stalinism.
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« Reply #134 on: March 24, 2009, 03:33:23 AM »


Only russophobia can blind someone to the fact that Russia fought  Germany alone during the hardest years 1941-1942. U.S. and British contribution was limited to bombing of Dresden and Morgenthau plan.

And they were fighting together since 1939 to 1941.
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