OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 23, 2014, 05:01:43 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Celtic Orthodox Church and the Benedictine Fathers  (Read 12475 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
searn77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Old Calendarist
Jurisdiction: Autonomous Orthodox Metropolia of the Americas & the British Isles
Posts: 240


St. Philaret (Voznesensky) of New York


« on: March 09, 2009, 10:39:09 PM »

First of all, what is the Celtic Orthodox Church? From reading some threads I guess they are not a part of the Eastern Orthodox Church? They say that "Canon 6 of Nicea required we form a new jurisdiction rather than operate as a dependency of an Eastern jurisdiction." Is this true? I'm getting this information from http://www.celticorthodoxchurch.com/. They are making it sound like according to Canon 6 of Nicea, there shouldn't be different jurisdictions in America but rather, I guess, an 'American Orthodox Church'. I have read from Eastern Orthodox articles that it should be this way in America and it most likely will be in the future. Is this true? And can an Eastern Orthodox receive the eucharist with the Celtic Orthodox or is it not allowed? I know that Orthodox can't do this in any church that is not Orthodox but I'm not sure exactly what the Celtic Orthodox Church is so I'm not sure the rules regarding this.

And also, are the "Latin Orthodox Benedictine", "Russian Orthodox Benedictine" and "Celtic Orthodox Benedictine Fathers" affiliated with Eastern Orthodoxy, Celtic Orthodoxy, or some other religion? The two websites I found of them are:
http://www.thelobf.org/
http://benedictinefathers.alphawolf.us/page1.php

Any more info about the Benedictine Fathers (especially the Celtic Orthodox Benedictine Fathers because if the Celtic Orthodox Church is not included in Eastern Orthodoxy, why did they go that route instead of Eastern Orthodoxy?) would be great.
Logged

Let us the faithful now come together to praise our father, protector and teacher the pillar of the Orthodox faith and firm defender of piety even the wondrous hierarch Philaret and let us glorify our Saviour Who has granted us his incorrupt relics as a manifest sign of his sanctity.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 07:56:38 AM »

The "Celtic Orthodox Church" and the "Benedictine Fathers" are not in Communion with either the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church or the Anglican Church.
There are many groups which use "Orthodox" in their title, but have no Communion with us.

Here's a handy tip- always suspect any Western group whose Bishops claim descent from "the Ukrainian Orthodox Church".
I've lost count of the episcopi vagantes who claim this!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 08:00:54 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
searn77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Old Calendarist
Jurisdiction: Autonomous Orthodox Metropolia of the Americas & the British Isles
Posts: 240


St. Philaret (Voznesensky) of New York


« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 08:07:52 PM »

Thanks for the reply. I found a website about all the episcopi vagantes and I had no idea how many different denominations claim to be Orthodox. And sure enough, both of the groups that I referenced were on the website. Now I'm curious though about the claim on Canon 6 of Nicea. I read on a couple of websites about canon 6 and it doesn't seem to be saying that the way Orthodoxy is in America with the different archdioceses are wrong. Any thoughts?

And also, I realize that the "Benedictine Fathers" and "Celtic Orthodox" that I mentioned are not Orthodox, but is it true that when Rome split off from the church, some Benedictine Fathers belonging to Rome felt that the Pope was wrong with his decision, so they fled to Jerusalem and Mt. Athos? If this did happen, did any of these Benedictine monks stay Orthodox?
And is it true that after the East-West schism, Ireland felt that the Pope was wrong so Ireland kind of disregarded the split while continuing to do as they previously had, and later the Pope gave the King of England the okay to take Ireland as long as he made it Catholic (as to which the King killed many of the previous Irish clergy and replaced them with Catholic ones)? I'm just wondering if this is actual fact or just hearsay. I got my information from the sites that I mentioned on the OP. Again I realize that they are not Orthodox but I'm just curious.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 08:09:45 PM by searn77 » Logged

Let us the faithful now come together to praise our father, protector and teacher the pillar of the Orthodox faith and firm defender of piety even the wondrous hierarch Philaret and let us glorify our Saviour Who has granted us his incorrupt relics as a manifest sign of his sanctity.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,423



« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 08:32:33 PM »

And is it true that after the East-West schism, Ireland felt that the Pope was wrong so Ireland kind of disregarded the split while continuing to do as they previously had, and later the Pope gave the King of England the okay to take Ireland as long as he made it Catholic (as to which the King killed many of the previous Irish clergy and replaced them with Catholic ones)? I'm just wondering if this is actual fact or just hearsay. I got my information from the sites that I mentioned on the OP. Again I realize that they are not Orthodox but I'm just curious.

I have briefly looked over some of the material on the site that you linked to.  Proper research of original source materials and the historical context there of would be needed for an in-depth answer.  But there was plenty of conquest and attempts to gain power and land and resources in that time and place.  St. Patrick was Romano-British and Christianity in Ireland looked to Rome for leadership.  Missionaries from Ireland traveled to Scotland and the north of England to spread the Faith. Some of the differences between the two sets of practice may be read of in Bede's account of the Council/Synod of Whitby in  664 A.D. 
Further, the passage on the site from the papal bull not only leaves off part of it but inserts words into it in parenthesis that add the groups opinion/idea that is not applicable in the historical context.

Ebor

Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
searn77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Old Calendarist
Jurisdiction: Autonomous Orthodox Metropolia of the Americas & the British Isles
Posts: 240


St. Philaret (Voznesensky) of New York


« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 09:18:59 PM »

Well I found out what the bull that Pope Adrian sent was called: "Laudabiliter" (there's a wikipedia page about it). So it was a real papal bull. I seem to be finding more out about Pope Adrian, King Henry, and the anglo-norman invasion, but I can't seem to find out what the Irish were like religiously before Laudabiliter/the anglo-norman invasion or anything about Benedictine monks leaving Ireland for Jerusalem and Mt. Athos.
Logged

Let us the faithful now come together to praise our father, protector and teacher the pillar of the Orthodox faith and firm defender of piety even the wondrous hierarch Philaret and let us glorify our Saviour Who has granted us his incorrupt relics as a manifest sign of his sanctity.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2009, 03:51:30 AM »

Well I found out what the bull that Pope Adrian sent was called: "Laudabiliter" (

"Laudabiliter"

How a Pope Gave Ireland to England!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-archive/message/1721
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2009, 11:04:07 AM »


Here is a thread on another Celtic Orthodox Church which exists in France, the UK, Switzerland.

It has its headquarters at a monastery in Brittany.

It claims an historical apostolic succession through the Oriental Orthodox Church.

Celtic Orthodox bishop received into the Ecumenical Patriarchate

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,14540.0.html
Logged
Kav
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: romanian in USA
Posts: 61


« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2009, 12:25:54 AM »

'Celtic' is a rather loose and abused term properly describing many peoples  sharing cultural commonalities. We could all be called 'interneti' today.
No Pope 'gave' England Ireland. They took it. My own Sept Kavanaugh was kin to the McMurrough who foolishly invited them over to help in that grand old irish pastime called fighting. And many is the time the english wish they had never gotten involved.
Slapping 'celtic'  on anything is fabricating an idealised mythological history in a foggy shroud of harp plucked fantasy. Hang a pentagram instead of a cross with solar circle and you have a wiccan.
Logged
searn77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Old Calendarist
Jurisdiction: Autonomous Orthodox Metropolia of the Americas & the British Isles
Posts: 240


St. Philaret (Voznesensky) of New York


« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2009, 09:21:38 PM »

'Celtic' is a rather loose and abused term properly describing many peoples  sharing cultural commonalities. We could all be called 'interneti' today.
No Pope 'gave' England Ireland. They took it. My own Sept Kavanaugh was kin to the McMurrough who foolishly invited them over to help in that grand old irish pastime called fighting. And many is the time the english wish they had never gotten involved.
Slapping 'celtic'  on anything is fabricating an idealised mythological history in a foggy shroud of harp plucked fantasy. Hang a pentagram instead of a cross with solar circle and you have a wiccan.

Yeah when I first made this thread I had no idea of how many religions claim to be the true Orthodox church (and by no means am I talking about the Oriental Orthodox church). The Celtic Orthodox church is the first of these churches that I ever heard of so I wasn't sure what the deal was with them. But now, after looking up into it more and more, I realize that they are self-proclaimed (although if one were to believe what they proclaim, it seems that it could have been legitimate). But I don't believe it.
Logged

Let us the faithful now come together to praise our father, protector and teacher the pillar of the Orthodox faith and firm defender of piety even the wondrous hierarch Philaret and let us glorify our Saviour Who has granted us his incorrupt relics as a manifest sign of his sanctity.
Kav
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: romanian in USA
Posts: 61


« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2009, 09:49:36 PM »

Being as irish is the predominent ethnicity in my family makeup, the idea of a celtic church is positively scary.

I can see it now, after liturgy everyone walks out for the coffee hour.

Only, instead of oven warm spanikopita,  russian caravan tea or lebanese hummus
There is a plate of Idaho potatos immolated in aluminum foil, soda bread with more dangers than chinese drywall and  roadkill corned beef and cabbage.

Makes that casserole at the lutherans look yummie  Lips Sealed
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2009, 10:05:29 PM »

Being as irish is the predominent ethnicity in my family makeup, the idea of a celtic church is positively scary.


Be brave!   Go and visit the parishes and monasteries of the Celtic Orthodox Church in France, Brittany, Switzerland....  They are not in communion with any Orthoodox Churches but who knows.... one day.  Their apostolic succession comes form the Copts.  The Copts took in, as a bishop without ordaining him in any way, Metropolitan Seraphim of Glastonbury who now heads the British branch of the anglophone Coptic Patriarchate.

Their monastery church in Brittany



One of their websites, there are others but in French.

http://www.eoc-coc.org/index_english.html
« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 10:11:09 PM by Irish Hermit » Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2009, 10:22:17 PM »

They are not in communion with any Orthoodox Churches but who knows.... one day. 

Slightly contradictory don't you think?
Are they Orthodox or not?
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2009, 10:37:51 PM »

They are not in communion with any Orthoodox Churches but who knows.... one day. 

Slightly contradictory don't you think?
Are they Orthodox or not?

Good question.  They are not Eastern Orthodox; they are pre-Chalcedonian.  If we say No, they are not Orthodox then we are also condemning the Coptic Orthodox Church and also the British Orthodox Church (which is in fact a diocese of the Coptic Patriarchate.)

The Coptic Patriarchate took in one of the bishops (Seraphim of Glastonbury) and nearly all of the clergy of this Church.  Within only a few months some of the clergy were alarmed at what they claimed was the copticisation of their Church and they withdrew from their Coptic allegiance and went back to being the Celtic Orthodox Church.

The point is that the Copts accepted them in their orders because they derived them from a Coptic bishop in the 19th century.  He created, with the approval of the Coptic Synod, a Bishop of Iona (Jules Ferrette, an ex-Catholic priest) who was meant to restore Orthodoxy in the British Isles.   So if we condemn the Celtic Orthodox that places their brothers who remained in the Coptic Church in a bit of a tight spot.

Of couse, if you do not admit that the Copts are Orthodox in the first place, then your answer is No, they are not Orthodox.  But I do not know your views of Coptic Orders and Sacraments.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2009, 10:40:39 PM »

then your answer is No, they are not Orthodox. 
I'm actually interested in your answer.
Are the non-Chalcedonians Orthodox in your view?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 10:41:38 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2009, 12:31:26 AM »

then your answer is No, they are not Orthodox. 
I'm actually interested in your answer.
Are the non-Chalcedonians Orthodox in your view?

I suppose they must be since they are communed by the Antiochian clergy, and the Greeks also used to commune them and perform their weddings, etc., but less now, if at all, since the passing of Metropolitan Dionysios (Psiachas) who was in charge here for about 30 years. 

I think I have mentioned that I arranged for the Copts to use our parish church (I was Serbian in those days) for a while when their numbers were small but there was no intercommunion.  They would fly a priest over from Brisbane and he would serve Liturgy in the body of the church.

Are there circumstances when Greeks commune non-Chalcedonians in Australia?
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2009, 01:02:42 AM »

I suppose they must be
Okie dokie.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2009, 01:19:15 AM »


I am glad you see the point. 
You didn't answer the question whether the Greek clergy in Australia commune Copts?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 01:23:40 AM by ozgeorge » Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2009, 01:24:50 AM »


What point? I simply asked whether you consider Non-Chalcedonians to be Orthodox and you replied in the affirmative that you do.

You didn't answer the question whether the Greek clergy in Australia commune Copts?
No they don't, and they never have.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 01:26:02 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2009, 01:28:34 AM »


I am glad you see the point. 
You didn't answer the question whether the Greek clergy in Australia commune Copts?



The post above. 

I  DID  NOT  WRITE  IT.   I'VE TRIED TO  REPORT IT  TO A MOD  BUT THE  SOFTWARE  WON'T  LET  ME  BECAUSE  IT THINKS  THAT  I  WROTE  IT  AND TELLS  ME  I CANNOT REPORT  MY OWN POST.   
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2009, 01:30:02 AM »


I am glad you see the point. 
You didn't answer the question whether the Greek clergy in Australia commune Copts?



The post above. 

I  DID  NOT  WRITE  IT.   I'VE TRIED TO  REPORT IT  TO A MOD  BUT THE  SOFTWARE  WON'T  LET  ME  BECAUSE  IT THINKS  THAT  I  WROTE  IT  AND TELLS  ME  I CANNOT REPORT  MY OWN POST.   

SOME ONE  IS PLAYING  WITH  MY POSTS.  PLEASE STOP ALTERING THEM.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2009, 01:30:41 AM »

Stop shouting.
Cant you just modify it?
I just fixed the quote tags for you, but if you meant them to be somewhere else, just fix it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 01:38:21 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2009, 01:37:33 AM »

Stop shouting.
Cant you just modify it?


Please look at your cached version of reply #16.

It was altered to make it appear that I said something that I had not.  And now it has been altered again. 

I am not shouting.  I tried to let a Mod know what was happening but of course the software won't let me report a post which seems to have come from me.   I need to get the attention of a Mod in some other way.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2009, 01:39:07 AM »

It was altered to make it appear that I said something that I had not. 
So what did you say?
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2009, 01:43:25 AM »

What point? I simply asked whether you consider Non-Chalcedonians to be Orthodox and you replied in the affirmative that you do.

Did I?  I pointed out that the Antiochian and the Greek clergy in this country have communed them and performed other Sacraments.  I can hardly think that the Antiochians and Greeks have not reached their own decisions on the status of the non-Chalcedoniams and obviously they must believe they are communing Orthodox Christians.

Is there a Forum policy as to whether non-Chalcedonians are Orthodox?
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2009, 01:46:36 AM »

It was altered to make it appear that I said something that I had not. 
So what did you say?


It is NOT what I said.  It was what someone interpolated into my message.  I invite you to investigate your cached versions of message #16. 

But forget it.  I have other things to take my attention.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2009, 01:47:23 AM »

Is there a Forum policy as to whether non-Chalcedonians are Orthodox?
No.
I simply asked you what you personally believe.

then your answer is No, they are not Orthodox. 
I'm actually interested in your answer.
Are the non-Chalcedonians Orthodox in your view?

I suppose they must be
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2009, 01:50:07 AM »

Stop shouting.
Cant you just modify it?
I just fixed the quote tags for you, but if you meant them to be somewhere else, just fix it.


There was nothing wrong with my quote tags.  Extraneous material was added into my message and then it was removed.

Agian, I invite you to take a look at your cached versions of message #16.  It will show you the variants.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2009, 01:51:29 AM »

So post 16 which you quote above actually reads what you said?

Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2009, 01:54:41 AM »

Is there a Forum policy as to whether non-Chalcedonians are Orthodox?
No.
I simply asked you what you personally believe.

then your answer is No, they are not Orthodox. 
I'm actually interested in your answer.
Are the non-Chalcedonians Orthodox in your view?

I suppose they must be

You are being disingenuous.  We Orthodox laboured for years on CAF with Catholics truncating quotes to make them mean something other than intended.

I wrote words to this effect: I suppose they must be because the Antiochian and Greek priests and even the ex Greek Archbishop have communed them regularly and frequently.
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2009, 01:55:36 AM »

So post 16 which you quote above actually reads what you said?

Again, I invite you to take a look at your cached versions of message #16.  It will show you the variants.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2009, 01:57:54 AM »

Is there a Forum policy as to whether non-Chalcedonians are Orthodox?
No.
I simply asked you what you personally believe.

then your answer is No, they are not Orthodox. 
I'm actually interested in your answer.
Are the non-Chalcedonians Orthodox in your view?

I suppose they must be

You are being disingenuous.  We Orthodox laboured for years on CAF with Catholics truncating quotes to make them mean something other than intended.

I wrote words to this effect: I suppose they must be because the Antiochian and Greek priests and even the ex Greek Archbishop have communed them regularly and frequently.


So when someone asks you a direct question about what you personally believe you direct them to what an "ex Greek Archbishop" may have believed?
Isn't that a bit disingenuous? What is the point of answering a direct question about your personal beliefs in such a manner if not to be disingenuous?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 02:01:06 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2009, 02:07:15 AM »

So when someone asks you a direct question about what you personally believe you direct them to what an "ex Greek Archbishop" may have believed?
Isn't that a bit disingenuous? What is the point of answering a direct question about your personal beliefs in such a manner if not to be disingenuous?


Quiet night in Sydney?   Grin

Btw, I am under no obligation at all to tell anybody what I believe when I judge the question confrontational or likely to cause a breach of charity. 

I have asked you many many questions on this Forum which you have not replied to.  But that is nothing particularly sinister.  It is just the nature of Forums.  They always throw up far more questions than get answered.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2009, 02:11:17 AM »

Quiet night in Sydney?   Grin
I'm not in Sydney.

Btw, I am under no obligation at all to tell anybody what I believe when I judge the question confrontational or likely to cause a breach of charity. 
True, but you could have simply stated that in your response. That would have been the charitable thing to do.

I have asked you many many questions on this Forum which you have not replied to.
Learn from my example. If you do not wish to answer, do not answer. Don't use it as an opportunity for unsubstantiated mud-slinging. If you don't want to answer, just say so, or simply don't answer. Don't be disingenuous.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 02:11:40 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2009, 02:17:27 AM »

I humbly apologise.   Of course I will learn from your example. But what unsubstantiated mudslinging are you speaking of?   I have personally witnessed the communing of Copts by Greek and Antiochian clergy.  We have to turn away Copts coming to our Russian and Serbian parish churches and expecting to receive communion becasuse they receive it at other Orthodox churches in the city. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 02:27:29 AM by ozgeorge » Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2009, 02:27:14 AM »

Actually, I think I see the problem. The "reply with quote" feature seems to have a bug in it.

Anyway:

Well, your "personal witness" as important as it may be to you, is actually unsubstantiated unless you can produce documented or video evidence.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Kav
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: romanian in USA
Posts: 61


« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2009, 02:27:23 AM »

Once you've sorted out the poucka playing games with your posts, perhaps you can

clarify who these 'celts' are, their history and above all purpose?

Europe has seen a resurgance in nationalism post USSR and even in the west.

Basques, Faroese seperatists, flemish and dutch language conflicts in the Netherlands

are but a few of political and religous movements linking to some 'ancient' or pre Nation-State

identity. There is even a old popular french cartoon series of two holdout celts defying the

Roman empire.

I have enough to do sorting out who is in communion with whom without getting tangled up in

memorial services at the statue of Vercingetorix.
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2009, 02:27:54 AM »

I humbly apologise.   Of course I will learn from your example. But what unsubstantiated mudslinging are you speaking of?   I have personally witnessed the communing of Copts by Greek and Antiochian clergy.  We have to turn away Copts coming to our Russian and Serbian parish churches and expecting to receive communion becasuse they receive it at other Orthodox churches in the city. 
Well, your "personal witness" as important as it may be to you, is actually unsubstantiated unless you can produce documented or video evidence.



I  DID  NOT  WRITE  THAT  LAST  SENTENCE.  IT  HAS  BEEN INTERPOLATED  INTO  MY POST.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2009, 02:28:31 AM »

Once you've sorted out the poucka playing games with your posts, perhaps you can
Thats a bit uncharitable isnt it?
Like breeds like I suppose.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2009, 02:29:30 AM »

Calm down Irish Hermit.
Read this:
Actually, I think I see the problem. The "reply with quote" feature seems to have a bug in it.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2009, 02:31:40 AM »

Well, your "personal witness" as important as it may be to you, is actually unsubstantiated unless you can produce documented or video evidence.


What do you think?  That it is all a massive lie from a pseudo monk who fabricates wicked stories about seeing non-Chalcedonians receiving Communion in diophysite Churches?   Grin
Logged
Kav
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: romanian in USA
Posts: 61


« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2009, 02:36:26 AM »

Uncharitable? to use a irish entity of mischief to describe a seeming supernatural interference with a post? One you use a 20th century folklore reference (a 'bug') in the precise same  manner ?

Hardly.
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2009, 02:39:59 AM »

What do you think?  That it is all a massive lie from a pseudo monk who fabricates wicked stories about seeing non-Chalcedonians receiving Communion in diophysite Churches?   

What I think doesn't matter, and neither does what you think- unless you are being asked for your personal opinion. But if someone asks for your personal opinion, and you reply with a claim of what you "saw" as breeches of Orthodoxy, then you are neither answering the question, nor providing substantiated facts, nor on topic. Would you believe a claim about ROCOR doing something unorthodox which was "personally witnessed" by someone without substantiation?
Just one question though- what were you doing in Greek Orthodox and Antiochian Churches? Were you concelebrating or simply an observer? Did you Commune?
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2009, 02:47:59 AM »


Just one question though- what were you doing in Greek Orthodox and Antiochian Churches? Were you concelebrating or simply an observer? Did you Commune?

Of course, I have concelebrated and communed in both these Churches, for decades past.

In fact concelebration with the Greeks was never broken in this country.   Mitred Archpriest Alexey Godyaew of the Russian Church Abroad served Liturgy regularly with Archbishop Dionysios Psiachas in the Greek cathedral.  You don't have to believe that since I don't have any sworn affidavits nor video recordings to substantiate it.  Maybe it is just another wild fable concocted by the Irish Hermit, maybe!    Grin
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2009, 02:50:43 AM »

what you "saw" as breeches of Orthodoxy, then you are neither answering the question, nor providing substantiated facts, nor on topic. Would you believe a claim about ROCOR doing something unorthodox which was "personally witnessed" by someone without substantiation?

Do you see communing non-Chalcedonians as breeches of Orthodoxy?
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2009, 02:52:41 AM »

Do you see communing non-Chalcedonians as breeches of Orthodoxy?

Yes I do, and so does my Church.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.137 seconds with 72 queries.