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Author Topic: I found a reference for fasting and pregnancy  (Read 3598 times) Average Rating: 0
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Quinault
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« on: March 03, 2009, 01:38:42 AM »

I found this on the Rudder that is posted online. It was useful to me since you hear a different opinion from everyone when you ask about observing the fast while pregnant/nursing.
Quote
Canon 8 of Timothy of Alexandria states;

 Question: If a woman give birth on Easter, does she have to fast, and not to drink any wine, or is she released from the fasting and from the obligation not
to drink any wine, on account of her having given birth to a child?

 Answer: Fasting was devised in order to humble the body. If, therefore, the body is already in a state of humbleness and illness or weakness, the person ought to partake of as much
as he or she may wish and be able to get along with food and drink.

 Interpretation.

 Upon being asked whether a woman ought to be allowed to break her fast  and to drink wine when she bears a child during the Great Lent preceding Easter, according to Balsamon and Blastaris, this Father replies that she must be allowed to do so, since fasting is done for the purpose of humbling and bridling the body, but if perchance the body is already humbled and weak, the person may eat as much food and consume as much drink as will support him in his illness and enable him to recover.

See also Ap. c. LXIX.





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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2009, 11:25:18 AM »

Excellent reference, thank you!  And I fully agree... pregnancy is a very humbling condition indeed.  Wink
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2009, 12:02:11 PM »

The canon referenced at the bottom of the above-quoted canon is #69 of the Holy Apostles, which says that if a clergyman does not keep the Paschal 40-day fast, or the Wednesday (4th Day) fast, or the Preparation Day (Friday) fast, then he should be deposed, unless he suffers from a bodily infirmity; if a layman, then excommunicated.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 12:02:32 PM by cleveland » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2009, 12:08:02 PM »

Before I became pregnant, I was able to work a physically demanding job and go without food or drink for long hours.  Now that I'm pregnant, my body is much less under my own control, which is like a fast for me.  It is challenging and humbling not to be able to just do whatever I want; I don't think of pregnancy as a free ride by any means (maybe for the baby  Smiley).  Honestly, I would rather be fasting, which tells me that maybe last year I was doing it for my own glory, and my sense of satisfaction wasn't all that holy. 
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2009, 01:55:01 PM »

^Congratulations!  I know what you mean, though, it is hard going from being able to do all the prostrations of St. Andrew's Canon to being out of breath within the first 15 minutes of the service.  I was actually looking forward to Lent this year because I've been pregnant during Lent for the past three years now, so I've kind of forgotten how to fast.  I kind of feel like I'm slacking in some ways but then again, not being able to eat anything without struggling to keep it down or not being able to even look at food on some days is a fast in itself.
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2009, 02:05:45 PM »

The canon referenced at the bottom of the above-quoted canon is #69 of the Holy Apostles, which says that if a clergyman does not keep the Paschal 40-day fast, or the Wednesday (4th Day) fast, or the Preparation Day (Friday) fast, then he should be deposed, unless he suffers from a bodily infirmity; if a layman, then excommunicated.
Serious stuff.  Where can I find the Rudder online?
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2009, 02:22:09 PM »

The canon referenced at the bottom of the above-quoted canon is #69 of the Holy Apostles, which says that if a clergyman does not keep the Paschal 40-day fast, or the Wednesday (4th Day) fast, or the Preparation Day (Friday) fast, then he should be deposed, unless he suffers from a bodily infirmity; if a layman, then excommunicated.
Serious stuff.  Where can I find the Rudder online?

There are links at the bottom of the OrthodoxWiki page:
http://orthodoxwiki.org/The_Rudder

One set of links to pages where they're available; another link to a PDF of the whole Rudder (220+ MB).
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2009, 02:42:20 PM »

^Congratulations!  I know what you mean, though, it is hard going from being able to do all the prostrations of St. Andrew's Canon to being out of breath within the first 15 minutes of the service.  I was actually looking forward to Lent this year because I've been pregnant during Lent for the past three years now, so I've kind of forgotten how to fast.  I kind of feel like I'm slacking in some ways but then again, not being able to eat anything without struggling to keep it down or not being able to even look at food on some days is a fast in itself.

Thank you!  Oh, yeah, you have to love the breathlessness.  I used to be a runner, but just doing laundry gets me huffing and puffing.
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2009, 02:44:03 PM »

I had a really hard time at Forgiveness Vespers with my son strapped to my back, I thought I would pass out.
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2009, 02:48:28 PM »

I fully agree that pregnancy is a humbling experience (even though I am male Smiley), but I don't think pregnant women should drink wine. Well, maybe a sip, closer to the end of pregnancy - but not even a sip during the first trimester, when all these tissue and organ patterns are forming in the embryo.
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2009, 02:53:22 PM »

I agree about the wine; although I have a tiny sip of the blessed wine (which is watered) with antidoron after Communion.  I thought it was interesting that the canon particularly mentions wine in pregnancy, since the main issue for most during Lent would be meat and dairy.   
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2009, 03:15:40 PM »

I agree about the wine; although I have a tiny sip of the blessed wine (which is watered) with antidoron after Communion.  I thought it was interesting that the canon particularly mentions wine in pregnancy, since the main issue for most during Lent would be meat and dairy. 

Actually, the canon mentions two things: Fasting, and drinking wine - which seems to imply that the abstaining from wine wasn't considered part of the proper fast, but was something unique to Great Lent/Holy Week.  So the meat/dairy is covered in "fasting," and the wine isn't - hence, why it is mentioned separately from "fasting" in the canon.
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2009, 03:34:31 PM »

I wouldn't say that wine is good for pregnant women even if there isn't any lent.
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2009, 03:40:15 PM »

I have seen widely differing opinions on alcohol consumption during pregnancy.  Most physicians will take the official position of absolutely not a drop of alcohol during pregnancy and none while nursing the baby, either.  (And for safe measure, if you do drink a glass of wine, be sure to pump your milk and throw it out at least an hour prior to nursing the baby.)  Unofficially, though, I've heard physicians say that one glass of wine probably won't hurt the baby... so long as we're talking about a 6 oz. glass and only one.  I had a couple of glasses of wine during my first trimester with Caitlin before I knew I was pregnant and she seems fine so far.  However, keep in mind that I'm not a physician and probably the best bet is not to drink at all.  I just wouldn't worry if it was something done unintentionally and in a small amount.
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2009, 04:12:26 PM »

I drink a guiness a day for the first six weeks after giving birth. It has tons of calories and iron and dark beers help with milk production and easier letdown. A glass of wine or beer is perfectly fine while nursing if you have plenty of water and food with it. There is absolutely no need to pump after a glass of wine or beer. If all you ever feel is "warm" and not anything more there is minimal effect on the nursing baby. In fact up to two glasses have been proven to have "insignificant" effect on a nursing baby. I still wouldn't have more than a glass though since too much alcohol can dehydrate you. Just keep it to the evening when baby sleeps longer and it will help you both get more rest Wink The only effect I have seen in my 7 years of breast feeding is that my kids will sleep a little longer between the feeding with alcohol and the next-which means it will go from every two hours to 3-4 hours, which is perfectly OK in the night. Then the next feeding will be longer as well.

Wine in pregnancy is OK in extreme moderation as well. (drink it slowly) Especially in the case of pregnancy migraines since it is easier on baby and mommy if you have a glass of wine instead of 1000mg of pain medication.
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2009, 04:17:21 PM »

All that said-I have a bottle of Oregon Nog waiting for me as soon as I deliver! Hopefully it will make the postpartum cramps not quite as incapacitating. That will be after the shot of morphine has worn off Grin No pain meds during delivery, but bring it on for the postpartum contractions! They get worse every time and this is my 7th pregnancy, so my body is quite adept at shrinking my uterus back down quite quickly.

http://www.madeinoregon.com/detail.aspx?ID=845

My in-laws gave it to me for Christmas before they knew I was pregnant. It is my favorite wine.
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2009, 04:18:24 PM »

I drink a guiness a day for the first six weeks after giving birth. It has tons of calories and iron and dark beers help with milk production and easier letdown. A glass of wine or beer is perfectly fine while nursing if you have plenty of water and food with it. There is absolutely no need to pump after a glass of wine or beer. If all you ever feel is "warm" and not anything more there is minimal effect on the nursing baby. In fact up to two glasses have been proven to have "insignificant" effect on a nursing baby.

If you have links to studies/research on these points, they would be great to add to the reference library here at OC.net.
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2009, 04:26:12 PM »

http://www.earthyfamily.com/A-remBF.htm

I know in Europe it has always been quite common to give a nursing mom dark beer to slowly sip.

Malt, hops and barley all increase supply. Non-alcoholic beers work as well. But alcohol is in the milk within 30 minutes so if you feed, then drink then do the next feeding it isn't likely that the baby will get much alcohol at all.
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2009, 04:33:38 PM »

http://www.earthyfamily.com/A-remBF.htm

I know in Europe it has always been quite common to give a nursing mom dark beer to slowly sip.

Malt, hops and barley all increase supply. Non-alcoholic beers work as well. But alcohol is in the milk within 30 minutes so if you feed, then drink then do the next feeding it isn't likely that the baby will get much alcohol at all.

Thanks for the link; I sent it to the wife to read, too.
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2009, 04:35:13 PM »


There are links at the bottom of the OrthodoxWiki page:
http://orthodoxwiki.org/The_Rudder

One set of links to pages where they're available; another link to a PDF of the whole Rudder (220+ MB).
Thanks, brother!
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2009, 04:39:00 PM »

Currently "they" advise nursing mothers to drink the non-alcoholic beers instead. So all the research I could come up with would have a host of studies to the contrary. The idea is that it is better safe than sorry I imagine. And there are too many women that abuse the advice and have a pint rather than a glass. The key is to have additive free beer and sip it very slowly overe at least an hour or two with a meal and some water. And I detest beer in general so if I am going to drink it I want it "leaded" so it will help me relax and help with the horrible migraines I have for several months after giving birth.
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 04:42:35 PM »

Currently "they" advise nursing mothers to drink the non-alcoholic beers instead. So all the research I could come up with would have a host of studies to the contrary. The idea is that it is better safe than sorry I imagine. And there are too many women that abuse the advice and have a pint rather than a glass. The key is to have additive free beer and sip it very slowly overe at least an hour or two with a meal and some water. And I detest beer in general so if I am going to drink it I want it "leaded" so it will help me relax and help with the horrible migraines I have for several months after giving birth.

I miss beer terribly right now, so I do sneak a sip from Mr. Y but nothing more than that.  IMO, I'd rather do without completely than drink the near-beers out there.  Yech.  Wink
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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2009, 04:47:53 PM »

I miss soft cheeses and sushi! Not that faux sushi "California rolls" but the real stuff with lots of wasabi! Mmmmm! I only resort to a little wine for headaches during pregnancy if sleeping, a warm bath, cold compresses, caffeine, 500 mg of pain meds and a dark room don't help in the least. Then I wait until the pain meds wear off and have a sip of wine. A glass of wine is much easier on the liver than 1000mg of Motrin.
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« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2009, 05:03:07 PM »

I'm not a huge sushi fan, so I'm ok with California rolls.  Soft cheeses, though... mmmmmm.
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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2009, 05:05:33 PM »

We get the best fresh, white king (or ivory) salmon on earth here- so it is horrible not to be able to eat it. You haven't had really good sushi until you have had white salmon. Yum! It tastes incredible!
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« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2009, 05:16:46 PM »

We get the best fresh, white king (or ivory) salmon on earth here- so it is horrible not to be able to eat it. You haven't had really good sushi until you have had white salmon. Yum! It tastes incredible!

I think I would be more willing to eat sushi if I were closer to the ocean.  As far inland as we are, you just can't get sushi unless the fish has been frozen and shipped in.  And I refuse to eat the eel.
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« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2009, 05:21:33 PM »

We have fish in abundance here obviously. My brother actually works off loading the fishing/crabbing boats from Alaska.
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