Author Topic: Strange icons  (Read 75530 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eastern Mind

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 714
  • Faith: Seeker
  • Jurisdiction: Greece
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #405 on: October 09, 2013, 02:38:45 PM »
That icon reminds me of the "Sub Tuum" hymn.

LBK where are you???  :laugh:

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,023
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #406 on: October 09, 2013, 03:34:41 PM »

LBK where are you???  :laugh:

I was wondering the same thing!  :D
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #407 on: October 09, 2013, 05:37:01 PM »
Here I am!  :D

Where did this image come from?

I thought the inscription was trying to say "Fatima", but the first letter is an Y (ou in Slavonic), not a Θ (f in Slavonic). There's a chance it could be trying to say "The Mother of All" (Mama o Ultima) though it appears to be misspelled. If so, the picture is yet another piece of social commentary. Honorable in intent, but outside the boundaries of what icons are supposed to be.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 05:38:25 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,023
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #408 on: October 09, 2013, 05:43:06 PM »

I got it off someone's wall on Facebook.   No additional information was provided.  It was just in a set of icon images.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,300
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #409 on: October 09, 2013, 05:43:34 PM »
Hmm...



Oh man, that rules. I'd like to see some more Orthodox depictions from St. John's Apocalypse.

LOL! Wow.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #410 on: October 09, 2013, 05:47:28 PM »

I got it off someone's wall on Facebook.   No additional information was provided.  It was just in a set of icon images.

Any chance of a link? The other images might provide clues.  :)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,764
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #411 on: October 15, 2013, 11:04:56 PM »
I realize this isn't really an icon, but what would the use for this be other than perhaps decoration?


Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #412 on: October 15, 2013, 11:08:38 PM »
"The Hospitality of Abraham in the style of St. Alban’s Psalter, by Peter Murphy"



LBK ain't going to like this because although you can't depict God the Father as an "old man" nor at all, you can depict Him as a man in this particular icon. Making the icon so precise to bring out the noetic nature of the visitors to Abraham I think means you can no longer have your Trinity cake and eat it to.

Sorry orthonorm but you are wrong here. The icon is of the Trinity, not of the Father. In fact it's more of an icon of an icon since the angels with Christ acted as a type of the Trinity.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Irish Melkite

  • Information Mongeror
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 999
    • Byzantine Forum
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #413 on: October 15, 2013, 11:48:50 PM »
I realize this isn't really an icon, but what would the use for this be other than perhaps decoration?



It's supposed to represent the footprint left behind after the apparition of Our Lady of Pochaev. Strange.

Many years,

Neil 
"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

- Melkite Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), of blessed memory

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #414 on: October 16, 2013, 02:49:15 AM »
I realize this isn't really an icon, but what would the use for this be other than perhaps decoration?



It's supposed to represent the footprint left behind after the apparition of Our Lady of Pochaev. Strange.

Many years,

Neil 

It is indeed representing the miraculous footprint at Pochaev. It would have been far better to have a properPochaevskaya icon which features the footprint (many of them do).
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,943
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Christ Clothes
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #415 on: October 16, 2013, 06:40:49 AM »
"The Hospitality of Abraham in the style of St. Alban’s Psalter, by Peter Murphy"



Was the lamb's head in the chalice in the original?  I can't tell.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

No longer pasting here.

Offline Hawkeye

  • Διονύσιος ὁ Όμηρίτης
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 762
  • What does everyone look like?
  • Faith: More Neronov than Avvakum
  • Jurisdiction: Old Rite Chapelist
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #416 on: October 16, 2013, 06:46:10 AM »
Was the lamb's head in the chalice in the original?  I can't tell.

Looks more like a Bothan than a lamb to me.
Quote from: The Life of Ivan Neronov
[Ecclesiastics] conspired against him because they hated his teaching for its zealous emphasis on proper Christian conduct: with great courage he denounced all whom he saw behaving in an ungodly fashion... [As such] he was deprived of his priestly rank, bound in iron chains, and broken down in jails.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #417 on: October 16, 2013, 06:52:07 AM »
Quote
Was the lamb's head in the chalice in the original?  I can't tell.

Not a lamb's head, but a calf's head.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,943
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Christ Clothes
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #418 on: October 16, 2013, 09:13:40 AM »
I saw this one after I saw the ones with Mary with her hair uncovered.

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

No longer pasting here.

Offline Eastern Mind

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 714
  • Faith: Seeker
  • Jurisdiction: Greece
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #419 on: October 16, 2013, 09:17:27 AM »
I actually really like that one. Hoping it's okay.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #420 on: October 16, 2013, 09:21:18 AM »
A step in the right direction, showing the Mother of God in her traditional form of dress. It would have been better, however, if the Child was shown clothed - not out of prudishness, but in keeping with iconographic tradition. This icon is, after all, a variant of the Znamennaya (Of the Sign, Platytera) type, where the Child, clothed, is shown over the Virgin's body, surrounded by a blaze of uncreated Light, echoing the passage of Isaiah 7:14 : Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Emmanuel.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,943
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Christ Clothes
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #421 on: October 16, 2013, 09:42:35 AM »
I can't upload, but here are some links of the Helper in Birth icons:

Uncovered hair, naked Christ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Virgin-Helper-in-Birth-Russian-Mini-Icon-3-x-2-5-Religious-Icon-/151092313083#ht_478wt_1161

Covered hair, clothed Christ.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8015991
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

No longer pasting here.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #422 on: October 16, 2013, 09:48:09 AM »
I can't upload, but here are some links of the Helper in Birth icons:

Uncovered hair, naked Christ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Virgin-Helper-in-Birth-Russian-Mini-Icon-3-x-2-5-Religious-Icon-/151092313083#ht_478wt_1161

Covered hair, clothed Christ.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8015991

The second one is much more preferable to the first.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,943
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Christ Clothes
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #423 on: October 16, 2013, 09:50:25 AM »
I can't upload, but here are some links of the Helper in Birth icons:

Uncovered hair, naked Christ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Virgin-Helper-in-Birth-Russian-Mini-Icon-3-x-2-5-Religious-Icon-/151092313083#ht_478wt_1161

Covered hair, clothed Christ.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8015991

The second one is much more preferable to the first.

I thought so.  With the more modern one I was able to post, is the depiction of Christ looking more like a real baby acceptable?  I know even when depicted as a child, He will usually look much older than, say, a baby or toddler.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

No longer pasting here.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #424 on: October 16, 2013, 09:55:01 AM »
I can't upload, but here are some links of the Helper in Birth icons:

Uncovered hair, naked Christ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Virgin-Helper-in-Birth-Russian-Mini-Icon-3-x-2-5-Religious-Icon-/151092313083#ht_478wt_1161

Covered hair, clothed Christ.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8015991

The second one is much more preferable to the first.

I thought so.  With the more modern one I was able to post, is the depiction of Christ looking more like a real baby acceptable?  I know even when depicted as a child, He will usually look much older than, say, a baby or toddler.

I was just about to post on that very detail. You are quite correct. The Child should always be shown as all-wise (as indicated by the scroll He is holding - as an adult, Christ holds either a scroll or a Gospel book, depending on the composition of the icon), and all-knowing, never as a generic, helpless baby.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 09:55:28 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Maria

  • Orthodox Christian
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,277
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #425 on: November 04, 2013, 06:17:49 PM »
Hmm...



Oh man, that rules. I'd like to see some more Orthodox depictions from St. John's Apocalypse.

Looks like a cartoon for children.
Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός
Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός
Ἅγιος ἀθάνατος
ἐλέησον ἡμας

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,300
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #426 on: November 04, 2013, 06:27:51 PM »
Hmm...



Oh man, that rules. I'd like to see some more Orthodox depictions from St. John's Apocalypse.

Looks like a cartoon for children.

So is that good or bad? Usually children are considered the epitome of human being or the worst of it. It is rather confusing.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,895
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #427 on: November 04, 2013, 06:37:24 PM »
Hmm...



Oh man, that rules. I'd like to see some more Orthodox depictions from St. John's Apocalypse.

Looks like a cartoon for children.

So what's the grown-up way of depicting a sun-headed angel with a cloud body walking on candlestick legs feeding a book to someone?

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #428 on: November 04, 2013, 06:50:44 PM »
So what's the grown-up way of depicting a sun-headed angel with a cloud body walking on candlestick legs feeding a book to someone?


Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #429 on: December 03, 2013, 11:30:04 AM »
Kinda like this one:

Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline Hawkeye

  • Διονύσιος ὁ Όμηρίτης
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 762
  • What does everyone look like?
  • Faith: More Neronov than Avvakum
  • Jurisdiction: Old Rite Chapelist
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #430 on: December 03, 2013, 02:05:06 PM »
I wouldn't feel comfortable venerating it but, as a piece of art, I like it too.
Quote from: The Life of Ivan Neronov
[Ecclesiastics] conspired against him because they hated his teaching for its zealous emphasis on proper Christian conduct: with great courage he denounced all whom he saw behaving in an ungodly fashion... [As such] he was deprived of his priestly rank, bound in iron chains, and broken down in jails.

Offline rosc

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #431 on: December 30, 2013, 08:38:41 AM »


Can anyone tell me about this icon? I don't remember how I came across it, while searching for other icons on google is all I know. Haven't seen any others similar to it.

Also, recommend a good book about Theotokos icons?


Thanks


Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #432 on: December 30, 2013, 09:27:54 AM »


Can anyone tell me about this icon? I don't remember how I came across it, while searching for other icons on google is all I know. Haven't seen any others similar to it.

Also, recommend a good book about Theotokos icons?


Thanks



It's not really an icon, it is similar to various western paintings with titles such as Madonna of the Streets.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline dhinuus

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 570
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #433 on: December 30, 2013, 06:20:18 PM »
Icon from St. Gregorios Indian Orthodox Church, Punnamoodu, Charumoodu, Alappuzha District, Kerala, INDIA
NULL

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,470
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #434 on: December 30, 2013, 09:41:49 PM »
My goodness, what is up with that green Jesus? 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Partisan Pro-Chalcedonian Fanatic
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,620
  • #FeelTheBern
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #435 on: December 30, 2013, 09:44:28 PM »
My goodness, what is up with that green Jesus? 

Maybe they didn't have the ethnically appropriate color to work with so they used green instead.  :laugh:
Not everything I type or have typed in the past is reflective of the teaching of the Orthodox Church, or may not reflect my contemporary views on a subject. (5/30/2015)

I am scaling back posting because the crack in my computer screen makes it harder and harder to type.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Partisan Pro-Chalcedonian Fanatic
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,620
  • #FeelTheBern
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Not everything I type or have typed in the past is reflective of the teaching of the Orthodox Church, or may not reflect my contemporary views on a subject. (5/30/2015)

I am scaling back posting because the crack in my computer screen makes it harder and harder to type.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #437 on: December 30, 2013, 11:59:39 PM »
My goodness, what is up with that green Jesus? 

He is sick of your sins.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,470
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #438 on: December 31, 2013, 12:05:58 AM »
My goodness, what is up with that green Jesus? 

He is sick of your sins.

While that is undoubtedly true (to the extent that the immutable God can get himself so worked up over my sins), I'm not sure if that's the answer.  I want to believe there's some traditional Indian/Hindu meaning to the colour scheme that has been adopted.  I really want to.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #439 on: December 31, 2013, 12:33:44 AM »
My goodness, what is up with that green Jesus? 

He is sick of your sins.

While that is undoubtedly true (to the extent that the immutable God can get himself so worked up over my sins), I'm not sure if that's the answer.  I want to believe there's some traditional Indian/Hindu meaning to the colour scheme that has been adopted.  I really want to.

Hindu meanings in Christian iconography makes me green with sickness.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,470
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #440 on: December 31, 2013, 12:47:10 AM »
Hindu meanings in Christian iconography makes me green with sickness.

"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #441 on: December 31, 2013, 12:53:03 AM »
Hindu meanings in Christian iconography makes me green with sickness.



Who is that? St. Severus? (He should be headless if it's a Chalcedonian statue.) :)
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,611
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #442 on: December 31, 2013, 12:53:34 AM »
My goodness, what is up with that green Jesus? 

He is sick of your sins.

While that is undoubtedly true (to the extent that the immutable God can get himself so worked up over my sins), I'm not sure if that's the answer.  I want to believe there's some traditional Indian/Hindu meaning to the colour scheme that has been adopted.  I really want to.

Is green the color of Uncreated Light?  :P :P ;)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,470
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #443 on: December 31, 2013, 12:57:03 AM »
Who is that? St. Severus? (He should be headless if it's a Chalcedonian statue.) :)

Learn;)

Is green the color of Uncreated Light?  :P :P ;)

I thought the Uncreated Light was pink! 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline dhinuus

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 570
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #444 on: December 31, 2013, 12:58:20 AM »
Hindu meanings in Christian iconography makes me green with sickness.
So did Christ himself establish the meanings of Byzantine iconography? Or was it influenced by the Hebrew tradition of the OT ?  Or did Hellenism influence Byzantine iconography? If it is the last, please let me know why pagan Greek (Hellenism) influence is ok in Christianity but pagan Indian (Hinduism) influence is NOT ok?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 01:00:53 AM by dhinuus »
NULL

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,470
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #445 on: December 31, 2013, 01:21:33 AM »
Hindu meanings in Christian iconography makes me green with sickness.
So did Christ himself establish the meanings of Byzantine iconography? Or was it influenced by the Hebrew tradition of the OT ?  Or did Hellenism influence Byzantine iconography? If it is the last, please let me know why pagan Greek (Hellenism) influence is ok in Christianity but pagan Indian (Hinduism) influence is NOT ok?

I'm pretty sure he was joking with me, not making a serious criticism. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,843
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #446 on: January 17, 2014, 06:17:19 PM »
Hindu meanings in Christian iconography makes me green with sickness.
So did Christ himself establish the meanings of Byzantine iconography? Or was it influenced by the Hebrew tradition of the OT ?  Or did Hellenism influence Byzantine iconography? If it is the last, please let me know why pagan Greek (Hellenism) influence is ok in Christianity but pagan Indian (Hinduism) influence is NOT ok?
Some people say that there is paganism in Christian art. They claim that the pictures of the son and moon on either side of Christ (this is especially clear in the Indian ikon posted above), which is sometimes seen, is a holdover from pictures of pagan deities. I do not know if this is the case.

Granted, just because something is pagan does not mean it is wrong, perhaps. We say that pagans could make some correct observations in their thought about God, but we do not consider they have Right Faith or the catholic faith.

On another note, Hinduism is perhaps the main polytheist religion to have survived after so many centuries. It is not clear to me whether Buddhism is polytheist, although I know at least some Buddhist sects have deities.

One thing I would question is how different our angels are from the polytheist deities. In both cases we are talking about divine beings created by the main deity. In the Abrahamic religion, the good angels are loyal servants of God, while in polytheism they are much more independent of the main deity. So that is a difference. In the Abrahamic religion, the angels are either with God and loyal servants or going against God and/or man.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 06:22:32 PM by rakovsky »

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,470
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #447 on: January 17, 2014, 06:45:46 PM »
One thing I would question is how different our angels are from the polytheist deities. In both cases we are talking about divine beings created by the main deity.

Not quite.  Angels aren't divine. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #448 on: January 17, 2014, 07:00:04 PM »
Well, they share with God some supernatural powers humans do not get. And IIRC, eg. Olympian gods were not equal in power either. Zeus was on the top, then his siblings, then offsprings of Kronos' children incest with each other, then gods born with lesser deities, then gods born with humans...
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,470
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Strange icons
« Reply #449 on: January 17, 2014, 07:01:59 PM »
Well, they share with God some supernatural powers humans do not get.

Humans share with God some qualities which angels do not, but that doesn't suddenly make humans divine. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10