Author Topic: Strange icons  (Read 463116 times)

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Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1170 on: October 18, 2015, 03:32:34 PM »
I've seen icons of the Three Youths in the Fiery Furnace before, but never one with the angel as Christ.



Is this canonical?
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Offline biro

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1171 on: October 18, 2015, 05:53:49 PM »
I have heard a couple homilies where the priest said the angel in that case stands for the pre-incarnate Christ. Can't remember the names of the priests, sorry.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1172 on: October 20, 2015, 10:46:36 AM »
I have heard a couple homilies where the priest said the angel in that case stands for the pre-incarnate Christ. Can't remember the names of the priests, sorry.

I've also heard/read EVERY jot & tittle is a reference to Him, including your referenced, above.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1173 on: October 20, 2015, 11:03:26 AM »
Russian style icons depict the Angel as Christ

https://russianicons.wordpress.com/tag/three-youths-in-the-fiery-furnace/



also
The Angel of the Lord appeared in the furnace and cooled the flames, and the young men remained unharmed. This “Angel of Great Counsel,” as he is called in iconography, is identified with the Son of God (Daniel 3:25, Isaiah 9:6). In the first Canon for the Nativity of the Lord (Ode 5), the Church sings: “Thou hast sent us Thine Angel of Great Counsel.” The emperor, upon seeing this, commanded them to come out, and was converted to the true God.

from   https://oca.org/saints/all-lives/2011/12/17


and given that the final OT reading of the Vespers of Holy Saturday is of the 3 youths, its hardly a tiny thing, the comparison of the Angel to Christ that the Church teaches.

The Angel saves the youths from the fiery furnace, so too our Lord saves us from Death and then we move (liturgically speaking) right into Pascha.


http://lent.goarch.org/holy_saturday/learn/
http://www.antiochian.org/content/orthodox-celebration-great-and-holy-saturday

and from the http://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/worship/the-church-year/holy-saturday
Following the evening entrance which is made with the Book of the Gospels, fifteen readings from the Old Testament scriptures are read, all of which relate to God’s work of creation and salvation which has been summed up and fulfilled in the coming of the predicted Messiah. Besides the readings in Genesis about creation, and the passover-exodus of the Israelites in the days of Moses in Exodus, there are selections from the prophecies of Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Zephaniah, and Jonah as well as from Joshua and the Books of Kings, the Canticles of Moses, and of the Three Youths found in Daniel are chanted as well. After the Old Testament readings the celebrant intones the normal liturgical exclamation for the singing of the Thrice-Holy Hymn, but in its place the baptismal verse from Galatians is sung: As many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Alleluia (Gal 3:27). As usual in the Divine Liturgy the epistle reading follows at this point. It is the normal baptismal selection of the Orthodox Church (Rom 6:3-11). If we have been united with him in a death like his we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his” (Rom 6:5).

This is not a jot or a tittle.....but a rather fundamental thing. 



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Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1174 on: October 20, 2015, 04:55:41 PM »
I see. But then how come other depictions of the pre-incarnate Christ, are uncanonical. For example, what makes this icon any different from Holy Wisdom, or some icons of the Hospitality of Abraham that show the middle angel with Christ's halo. Those are depictions of the pre-incarnate Logos, no?
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1175 on: November 04, 2015, 06:34:50 AM »
If it has been posted earlier, please apologise me
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Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1176 on: November 06, 2015, 11:51:55 PM »
Has anyone seen this before?



The figures on the bottom are the Royal Passion-Bearers. I rather like it.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1177 on: November 08, 2015, 09:32:49 AM »
I've never seen exactly such type of icon, however there are quite a lot of icons depicting royal passion-bearers, some of them are maybe far-fetched
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1178 on: November 08, 2015, 06:32:38 PM »

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1179 on: November 08, 2015, 10:38:10 PM »
Has anyone seen this before?



The figures on the bottom are the Royal Passion-Bearers. I rather like it.

That one looks ok.  I do wonder what the orthography says.

maybe

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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1180 on: November 09, 2015, 01:24:21 PM »
Source on right is not a parody?

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1181 on: November 09, 2015, 02:52:27 PM »
Another strange archangel Michael
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1182 on: November 09, 2015, 02:55:25 PM »
I would be happy to have a copy of that. 

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1183 on: November 09, 2015, 03:07:41 PM »
I like it. Is that from Rila monastery?
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1184 on: November 09, 2015, 05:38:09 PM »
I like it. Is that from Rila monastery?
Yes. How did you know that? ;)
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Offline biro

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1185 on: November 09, 2015, 09:51:45 PM »
I used to have a Roman Catholic version where the Archangel is stabbing the devil.

Is that who the old man on the floor is supposed to be?
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Offline Bob2

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1186 on: November 09, 2015, 10:21:09 PM »
I have heard a couple homilies where the priest said the angel in that case stands for the pre-incarnate Christ. Can't remember the names of the priests, sorry.

You will often hear it described in the Ode VIII Irmoi, for example in the Tone IV "I shall open my mouth..." Canon of the Theotokos:
"The Offspring of the Theotokos, saved the holy children in the furnace, He Who was then prefigured has since been born on earth, and He gathers together all the creation to sing, O all ye works of the Lord, praise ye the Lord"

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1187 on: November 10, 2015, 01:34:00 PM »

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1188 on: November 10, 2015, 02:14:57 PM »
I didn't know the Greeks invented the @ sign!
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1189 on: November 10, 2015, 02:19:09 PM »
I didn't know the Greeks invented the @ sign!

Think about how I feel.  I didn't know EO believed Jesus was born of St Mina!

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1190 on: November 10, 2015, 02:20:15 PM »
I didn't know the Greeks invented the @ sign!

Think about how I feel.  I didn't know EO believed Jesus was born of St Mina!



Shocking news at every turn!

but at least we know St. Mina did not do what is in your sig line....

« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 02:22:01 PM by DeniseDenise »
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1191 on: November 10, 2015, 06:21:39 PM »
I used to have a Roman Catholic version where the Archangel is stabbing the devil.

Is that who the old man on the floor is supposed to be?

It may be an Arian

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1192 on: November 10, 2015, 06:44:36 PM »
I used to have a Roman Catholic version where the Archangel is stabbing the devil.

Is that who the old man on the floor is supposed to be?

It may be an Arian

The inscription says "The Holy Archangel Michael torments the soul of the wealthy man" but I can't find a good enough image to read what's above the latter's head.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1193 on: November 12, 2015, 10:07:07 PM »
I used to have a Roman Catholic version where the Archangel is stabbing the devil.

Is that who the old man on the floor is supposed to be?

It may be an Arian

The inscription says "The Holy Archangel Michael torments the soul of the wealthy man" but I can't find a good enough image to read what's above the latter's head.

It actually reminds me of thangkas of wrathful deities in Tibetan Buddhism, such as Mahakala:

Quote
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- Berdyaev

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1194 on: November 13, 2015, 04:54:11 PM »


What's going on here? Why is the tiny man all pink and bleeding? Why is Christ dressed in green and pink? Why is Christ so upset? Why is it night? What do the inscriptions say?

Can anyone answer these questions?
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1195 on: November 13, 2015, 04:56:48 PM »
It appears to be a reference to abortion. The last word in the group of words on the left seems to be "abortion" or similar.

The little person Jesus is holding is probably supposed to be a fetus.
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1196 on: November 13, 2015, 11:09:53 PM »


What's going on here? Why is the tiny man all pink and bleeding? Why is Christ dressed in green and pink? Why is Christ so upset? Why is it night? What do the inscriptions say?

Can anyone answer these questions?

The inscription says "The Weeping of the Lord Jesus Christ for the Aborted" and the title at the bottom is "Christ the Grieving."
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1197 on: November 13, 2015, 11:14:07 PM »
Has anyone seen this before?



The figures on the bottom are the Royal Passion-Bearers. I rather like it.

Yes, I have a book which has this icon on the cover.

It's supposed to be representing this:

Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1198 on: November 13, 2015, 11:48:18 PM »
Due to the difficulty of making out most of the words, I refrained from trying to translate that icon earlier but that it's titled "The Removal of the Fifth Seal" should have clued me in.

Checking what's clear enough with Revelation 6:9-11 in Church Slavonic confirms that the above is indeed what is written at the bottom. The scroll in St. Nicholas' hands attributes the cry to them, saying "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge."
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 12:02:35 AM by Hawkeye »
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline Theophania

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1199 on: November 13, 2015, 11:55:09 PM »
It's certainly an appropriate verse for them! I own an icon of Grand Duchess Olga, the emperor's eldest daughter, and the scroll in her hand reads: "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry."
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1200 on: November 14, 2015, 12:26:01 AM »
I used to have a Roman Catholic version where the Archangel is stabbing the devil.

Is that who the old man on the floor is supposed to be?

It may be an Arian

The inscription says "The Holy Archangel Michael torments the soul of the wealthy man" but I can't find a good enough image to read what's above the latter's head.

Which wealthy man? Dives?

Or is "the wealthy man" a euphemism for the devil? (think Pluto, plutocracy, etc.)
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1201 on: November 14, 2015, 09:08:52 AM »
I used to have a Roman Catholic version where the Archangel is stabbing the devil.

Is that who the old man on the floor is supposed to be?

It may be an Arian

The inscription says "The Holy Archangel Michael torments the soul of the wealthy man" but I can't find a good enough image to read what's above the latter's head.

Which wealthy man? Dives?

Or is "the wealthy man" a euphemism for the devil? (think Pluto, plutocracy, etc.)

Not being able to read the second inscription, I really can't say. The word used («бога́тагw») simply denotes a rich man.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 09:11:55 AM by Hawkeye »
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1202 on: November 16, 2015, 01:57:00 PM »
It might simply be "the" rich man of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Quote
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1203 on: November 26, 2015, 11:39:50 AM »
Not sure, if it has been posted. And I don't know the background history of such type arch. Michael's
presentantion
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1204 on: November 26, 2015, 11:49:44 AM »
Wow!  :o That's the first time I've ever seen that image.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1205 on: November 26, 2015, 12:00:05 PM »
That type of icon is known as the Archangel Michael of the Apocalypse.

"Verily they that seek Thee, Lord, and keep the canons of Thy Holy Church shall never want any good thing.”
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1206 on: December 02, 2015, 10:33:18 AM »
A friend of an acquaintance had this one.

Appears to be the Virgin of Bethlehem, but with the evangelists painted in the corners.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:35:26 AM by Agabus »
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Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1207 on: December 02, 2015, 11:13:42 AM »
A friend of an acquaintance had this one.

Appears to be the Virgin of Bethlehem, but with the evangelists painted in the corners.



I think those are prophets. The figure in the upper left corner seems to be King David, due to the crown.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1208 on: December 02, 2015, 11:43:35 AM »
Yea, the upper left is likely David, the upper right is likely Habbakuk, and the lower left is probably Isaiah. I'm not sure about the lower right, though. The prophets fit well with the theme of the Virgin of Bethlehem.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1209 on: December 04, 2015, 12:14:09 AM »

Not an icon...but, it was sold on a site that sells special order icons from Bulgaria.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline biro

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1210 on: December 04, 2015, 02:23:58 AM »
Merlin?  :o
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1211 on: December 04, 2015, 01:48:42 PM »

Yes.  Merlin. SMH
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1212 on: December 13, 2015, 02:49:22 PM »

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1213 on: December 13, 2015, 04:18:28 PM »
Those people got some personality! My favorite is the "talk to the hand" lady...

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1214 on: December 13, 2015, 05:05:08 PM »
A monk, a businessman, and a judgmental Christian woman are rejecting the invitation? And a homeless man, a prostitute, and, um, a man with a tattoo are being received?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 05:05:35 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy