Author Topic: Strange icons  (Read 453444 times)

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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1035 on: June 20, 2015, 05:20:55 AM »
Must be the language; do Readers read? or sing?

A reader (anagnostis, chtets) chants, with the exception of the Ikos at Matins, which should be read in a monotone.

Icon painter at my church agrees with your translation, contrary to what I've heard before.....from priests.

The iconographer at your parish has it right. In my long experience, those who insist icons are written are overwhelmingly converts who only speak English.
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Offline mike

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1036 on: June 20, 2015, 06:19:39 AM »




Looks a bit like the Theotokos of Athos.



And was created from the very similar idea. I can't see anything wrong with the LA icon as long as the Athonite is OK.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1037 on: June 20, 2015, 06:22:18 AM »




Looks a bit like the Theotokos of Athos.



And was created from the very similar idea. I can't see anything wrong with the LA icon as long as the Athonite is OK.

There is the problem of the Native American "Christ" and "Mother of God" surrounded by mandorlas in the LA painting.  :police:
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 06:23:00 AM by LBK »
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Offline mike

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1038 on: June 20, 2015, 06:26:13 AM »
I cannot clearly see what is in those circles. I assumed there are some saints associated with LA.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1039 on: June 20, 2015, 06:32:38 AM »
I cannot clearly see what is in those circles. I assumed there are some saints associated with LA.

They are not. The motif on the left is of a native mother and child, the one on the right of a native warrior. Neither are shown with haloes, yet both are surrounded by mandorlas. This imagery is at best confused, at worst syncretist.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1040 on: June 20, 2015, 06:34:27 AM »
Why can't they be symbolical? Like Kosmos on Pentecost icon? Or that old dude on Nativity one?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1041 on: June 20, 2015, 06:38:23 AM »
Why can't they be symbolical? Like Kosmos on Pentecost icon? Or that old dude on Nativity one?

Kosmos is surrounded by the darkness of a world not yet enlightened by the Holy Spirit. The old man talking to St Joseph is the devil, trying to plant doubt into him about the paternity of the newborn Christ. Both these symbols are spoken of in hymns and prayers, and neither bears a halo, and neither are surrounded by a mandorla of divine uncreated light.
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Offline griego catolico

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1042 on: June 20, 2015, 07:08:05 PM »
Wow. A synaxis of the Orthodox Churches of my home town.

Most are fairly accurate visually.  Which is either scary or impressive.

Yes, depicted are the various Orthodox cathedrals in the Los Angeles area:

Holy Transfiguration (ROCOR)
Saint Sophia (Greek)
Holy Virgin Mary (OCA)
Saint Sava (Serbian)
Saint Nicholas (Antiochian)

I found the icon at Uncut Mountain Supply Icons .

I'm curious as why there is a man depicted standing on top of one of the towers and conversing with an angel.  ???

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1043 on: June 20, 2015, 08:34:25 PM »
If it wasn't quite so confused I would get one to pray for my hometown.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1044 on: June 20, 2015, 08:41:38 PM »
It also leads me to want to have a Seattle/ Washington one with both St John of SF and Shanghai and the newly canonized St Sebastian Dabovich included since they each have a firm connection to churches here.

Along with St Tikhon (who consecrated a now very old chapel in a nearby-ish mining town) it would be rather like a synaxis but also the cities.


Hmmmm
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1045 on: June 24, 2015, 05:55:52 PM »

I mean st. Nicholas in the left corner; usually in this place in the icons presenting st. George there is Christ also in such "aureola"
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 05:58:42 PM by Dominika »
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1046 on: June 24, 2015, 11:47:17 PM »

I mean st. Nicholas in the left corner; usually in this place in the icons presenting st. George there is Christ also in such "aureola"

It's possible that the inclusion of St Nicholas is to commemorate a family member or perhaps the person who commissioned the icon for someone called George. The usual way of doing this is to paint such saints in the borders of the icon, rather than as a medallion seen here.
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1047 on: June 25, 2015, 06:45:10 AM »
It's possible that the inclusion of St Nicholas is to commemorate a family member or perhaps the person who commissioned the icon for someone called George. The usual way of doing this is to paint such saints in the borders of the icon, rather than as a medallion seen here.

Wow, thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of such practice. It's very interesting :)
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1048 on: June 25, 2015, 07:02:16 AM »
It's possible that the inclusion of St Nicholas is to commemorate a family member or perhaps the person who commissioned the icon for someone called George. The usual way of doing this is to paint such saints in the borders of the icon, rather than as a medallion seen here.

Wow, thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of such practice. It's very interesting :)



Here's a more typical way of commemorating family members or patrons. This icon of St Nikita features St Simon the Kinsman of the Lord, Venerable Evdokia, and a guardian angel in the side borders. It's likely this icon was painted for someone called Nikita, where the other saints were the patrons of either his parents or Godparents.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 07:03:49 AM by LBK »
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1049 on: June 25, 2015, 07:21:17 AM »
^^ I was going to ask you for an example ;) So thanks :) And yeah, now I think that I've seen such icons (I mean with the additional patrons) like of st. Nikita you presented.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1050 on: June 25, 2015, 07:27:04 AM »
^^ I was going to ask you for an example ;) So thanks :) And yeah, now I think that I've seen such icons (I mean with the additional patrons) like of st. Nikita you presented.

Happy to help, Dominika.  :)
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1051 on: June 26, 2015, 06:07:49 PM »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1052 on: June 27, 2015, 06:25:05 PM »
I like it.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1053 on: June 27, 2015, 07:52:44 PM »


It's derived from Roman Catholic religious art. Here is an Orthodox icon of the Lamentation:

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1054 on: June 30, 2015, 12:46:37 PM »
Mary looks like an angry man.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1055 on: June 30, 2015, 01:27:58 PM »
Yea, I thought she looked angry....stared and then she looked sad and angry.....the painter caught her hours after wherein I would have been both! So, I figure they did it right.....disturbing.
Oh, and I don't see the male part of it.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1056 on: July 06, 2015, 07:27:58 AM »



I mean the cloth (usually in such icon Chris is presented without it)


St. Efrosinos the Cook - does anybody have an info about him in English?
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1057 on: July 06, 2015, 08:50:14 AM »


Great-martyr Marina subduing a black demon is a common sight in post-17th century icons. Some versions have her holding the demon by the horns. I'm not a fan of such portrayals, especially as they are rather late in historical appearance.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1058 on: July 06, 2015, 08:57:44 AM »
height=600]https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8143/7590511366_91573d3a96_c.jpg[/img]

The resolution of the image is too low for me to work out what the inscription is under the bishop shown next to Apostle Barnabas. He might be the patron who commissioned the icon, or a bishop of Cyprus. The land mass that St Barnabas is standing on has the shape of the island that is Cyprus, of which he is a patron, having served there as its first archbishop.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1059 on: July 06, 2015, 09:00:52 AM »
I mean the cloth (usually in such icon Chris is presented without it)


You're right, this is the first time I've seen Christ wrapped in such a cloth in this type of icon. It is probably an attempt to show him in a burial shroud.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1060 on: July 06, 2015, 09:05:08 AM »
St. Efrosinos the Cook - does anybody have an info about him in English?


Here's something:

Saint Euphrosynus the Cook was from one of the Palestinian monasteries, and his obedience was to work in the kitchen as a cook. Toiling away for the brethren, St Euphrosynus did not absent himself from thought about God, but rather dwelt in prayer and fasting. He remembered always that obedience is the first duty of a monk, and therefore he was obedient to the elder brethren.

The patience of the saint was amazing: they often reproached him, but he made no complaint and endured every unpleasantness. St Euphrosynus pleased the Lord by his inner virtue which he concealed from people, and the Lord Himself revealed to the monastic brethren the spiritual heights of their unassuming fellow-monk.

One of the priests of the monastery prayed and asked the Lord to show him the blessings prepared for the righteous in the age to come. The priest saw in a dream what Paradise is like, and he contemplated its inexplicable beauty with fear and with joy.

He also saw there a monk of his monastery, the cook Euphrosynus. Amazed at this encounter, the presbyter asked Euphrosynus, how he came to be there. The saint answered that he was in Paradise through the great mercy of God. The priest again asked whether Euphrosynus would be able to give him something from the surrounding beauty. St Euphrosynus suggested to the priest to take whatever he wished, and so the priest pointed to three luscious apples growing in the garden of Paradise. The monk picked the three apples, wrapped them in a cloth, and gave them to his companion.

When he awoke in the early morning, the priest thought the vision a dream, but suddenly he noticed next to him the cloth with the fruit of Paradise wrapped in it, and emitting a wondrous fragrance. The priest, found St Euphrosynus in church and asked him under oath where he was the night before. The saint answered that he was where the priest also was. Then the monk said that the Lord, in fulfilling the prayer of the priest, had shown him Paradise and had bestown the fruit of Paradise through him, “ the lowly and unworthy servant of God, Euphrosynus.”

The priest related everything to the monastery brethren, pointing out the spiritual loftiness of Euphrosynus in pleasing God, and he pointed to the fragrant paradaisical fruit. Deeply affected by what they heard, the monks went to the kitchen, in order to pay respect to St Euphrosynus, but they did not find him there. Fleeing human glory, the monk had left the monastery. The place where he concealed himself remained unknown, but the monks always remembered that their monastic brother St Euphrosynus had come upon Paradise, and that they in being saved, through the mercy of God would meet him there. They reverently kept and distributed pieces of the apples from Paradise for blessing and for healing.


Source: http://oca.org/saints/lives/2015/09/11/102581-st-euphrosynus-the-cook-of-alexandria
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1061 on: July 19, 2015, 12:42:03 PM »
I know these icons are Coptic, but generally we (EO) have very similar canons.

St. Joseph in the Egyptian covering in the icon od descent into Hades; interesting way of emphasis by Copts of Egypt's importance


Palms everywhere ;)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 12:42:20 PM by Dominika »
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1062 on: July 24, 2015, 12:39:21 AM »


This is an icon of St George (I think?) in "batik", found by a friend at an antique store.  Does anyone know anything about it?  Age?  Place of origin?  Etc.

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1063 on: July 24, 2015, 02:27:44 AM »
This is the original icon:



It is a famous one of St George, from Novgorod, Russia, painted in the late 14th century.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 02:28:16 AM by LBK »
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1064 on: July 28, 2015, 12:14:27 AM »
What's going on here?

http://www.orthodoxgoods.com/prjomoholo.html



(posted in this thread for lack of a better option; 'strange' meant as unique or uncommon here)

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1065 on: July 28, 2015, 12:17:55 AM »
What's going on here?

http://www.orthodoxgoods.com/prjomoholo.html



(posted in this thread for lack of a better option; 'strange' meant as unique or uncommon here)

It's an icon of Joshua, son of Nun. I suspect the bulk of the inscription is either OT scripture relating to him, or derived from it, but the cropping of the original mural icon has removed some of the text.
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1066 on: July 28, 2015, 12:19:38 AM »
That's interesting. I like it. :)
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1067 on: August 03, 2015, 02:37:55 PM »
Maybe not so strange. It's a Syriac icon
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1068 on: August 03, 2015, 02:42:26 PM »
Maybe not so strange. It's a Syriac icon


I really like this: both the icon and the subject.  :)

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1069 on: August 03, 2015, 02:43:45 PM »
Who is the saint on the left?  :angel:
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1070 on: August 03, 2015, 02:46:15 PM »
Who is the saint on the left?  :angel:

The apostle Thomas. 

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1071 on: August 03, 2015, 02:48:16 PM »
Thank you.  :angel:
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1072 on: August 03, 2015, 02:57:40 PM »
Thanks for the hagiography of St. Efrosinos the Cook.  For some strange reason I always thought he was holding an onion.  Buy was I wrong.

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1073 on: August 03, 2015, 03:00:30 PM »
Thanks for the hagiography of St. Efrosinos the Cook.  For some strange reason I always thought he was holding an onion.  Buy was I wrong.

I see his icon quite a bit in local businesses. I find it comforting.  :angel:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 03:01:11 PM by biro »
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1074 on: August 03, 2015, 06:24:31 PM »
What is this?


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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1075 on: August 04, 2015, 12:45:37 AM »
What is this?



The inscription reads: The Mother of God praying at the Mount of Olives for protection against the power of Satan. The angel shown is Archangel Gabriel.

The image looks like a panel from a "life" icon, which has a central depiction of a saint, surrounded by small panels depicting aspects of their life.

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1076 on: August 05, 2015, 08:50:22 AM »
I find strange just some elements, not the icon as such
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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1077 on: August 05, 2015, 09:35:36 AM »
The above icon is inscribed Sobor (synaxis, assembly) of the Mother of God, and is the festal icon for the day after the Nativity of the Lord. The icon is also known as All Creation Rejoices in You, and is a visual counterpart to the hymn to the Mother of God of the same name, sung at the Divine Liturgy of St Basil the Great:

    All of creation rejoices in you, Lady full of grace,
    The assembly of angels and the race of men.
    O sanctified Temple and rational Paradise! O glory of virgins!
    From you, God was incarnate and became a child, our God before the ages.
    He made your body into a throne, and your womb He made more spacious than the heavens.
    All of creation rejoices in you, Lady full of grace, glory to you.


The version Dominika has posted is simplified compared to most other compositions, but retains some of the features distinctive to this icon type: the magi presenting their gifts to the enthroned Mother and Child, the assembly of angels, and things of earth such as hills and vegetation. The two haloed saints in the lower half are St John of Damascus on the left, and St Kosmas of Maiuma, iconographers who wrote a great number of hymns to the Mother of God.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline biro

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1078 on: August 05, 2015, 11:39:17 AM »
Wow! :) Neat.
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Offline Apostolos

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Re: Strange icons
« Reply #1079 on: August 05, 2015, 03:05:15 PM »
What's going on here?

http://www.orthodoxgoods.com/prjomoholo.html



(posted in this thread for lack of a better option; 'strange' meant as unique or uncommon here)

It's an icon of Joshua, son of Nun. I suspect the bulk of the inscription is either OT scripture relating to him, or derived from it, but the cropping of the original mural icon has removed some of the text.
Yes it's indeed Joshua of Naue, a mosaic on the exterior wall of the Katholikon of the Monastery of Hosios Loukas in Boeotia, Greece. Interestingly enough, the warrior's armor he is depicted wearing, is the Byzantine typical equipment of a heavily armed infantryman of the 10th-12th c. 

PS: I've never understood why in English the son of Naue is called Joshua, and the Christ is called Jesus, while technically both are "Jesuses"; even in the Slavic churches (correct me if I'm mistaken) they're both "Jesus" (Иисус)
Ἦχος Βαρύς

Ὁπλιτικῆς φάλαγγος οἰκεῖον μέλος
ὁ τοῦ βάρους σὺ κλῆσιν εἰληφῶς φέρεις.
Ἧχον τὸν ἁπλοῦν τὸν βάρους ἐπώνυμον
ὁ τοὺς λογισμοὺς ἐν βοαῖς μισῶν φιλεῖ.
Ἀνδρῶν δὲ ἄσμα δευτερότριτε βρέμεις.
Ὧν ποικίλος δὲ τοὺς ἁπλούς ἔχεις φίλους.