Author Topic: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?  (Read 409 times)

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Offline rakovsky

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Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« on: December 29, 2016, 06:45:18 PM »
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Thomas the Apostle (called Didymus which means "the twin") was one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ

In the Book of Thomas the Contender [ circa 2nd c. AD], part of the Nag Hammadi, it is said to be Jesus himself: "Now, since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion, examine yourself…"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_the_Apostle

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The apocryphal Acts of Thomas, written in the early third century, identifies him as "Judas Thomas", and fourth century historian Eusebius refers to him once as "Judas, who was also called Thomas".



  •     Judea had long been part of the Seleucid Empire, and a very common Macedonian name was Ptolemy, which, in Aramaic, was rendered as Talmai or Talmais. That might explain why he was also known as Judas , which basically identified him as Judean; because there was a desire to make it clear that he was of Judaic rather than Greek descent. Note that Bartholomew, the name of the Apostle who may have traveled to India with Thomas after Jesus' crucifixion, is believed to derive from bar Talmai, meaning "son of Ptolemy".

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In Aramaic, the name "Thomas" is "Tauma." In Aramaic, the word for "Twin" is "Taama." Tauma was also known as Taama. In Aramaic, "Tauma who was called Taama" will become "Thomas who was called Didymus" in Greek losing the wordplay and the meaning becomes more obscure.
[/list]
This explanation depends on the later texts that identify him as Judas Thomas, so it has not won much support.

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/14874/who-was-thomass-twin


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Notes on the Catalogues of the Apostles in Matthew 10:3, Mark 3:18, Luke 6:15, in all of which he is coupled with Matthew, whose twin-brother he possibly was; and in Acts 1:13, where he is coupled with Philip. The name belonged probably to his childhood, and we are wholly without the knowledge which can explain it. The various theories which attempt to do so, from the statement of the Apostolical Constitutions that he had a twin sister Lydia, to the view that the name was given by our Lord to signify his double or halting spiritual nature, are never more than, and are sometimes much less than, elaborate guesses
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 If Thomas is stiff and obstinate in his incredulity, he is also stiff and obstinate in his affection and allegiance. “In him the twins, unbelief and faith, were contending with one another for mastery, as Esau and Jacob in Rebecca’s womb.”
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 In all probability he was a twin, possibly of S. Matthew, with whom he is coupled in all three lists of the Apostles in the Gospels: in the Acts he is coupled with S. Philip. That S. Thomas received his name from Christ (as Simon was called Peter, and the sons of Zebedee Boanerges) in consequence of his character, is pure conjecture. But the coincidence between the name and his twin-mindedness (James 1:8 [Such a [hypothetical] person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.]; James 4:8) is remarkable.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/11-16.htm
Peter got his name from Jesus for a spiritual reason. It's easy to think Jesus also gave Thomas this new name as a play on words (Tauma v Taama) based on dual mindedness - Thomas ended up being very doubtful and then strongly faithful in John 21.

John translated Didymus into Greek for the reader. Tauma (Ptolemy) was his name, while Taama (Twin / Didymus) was his nickname based on his name Tauma.

Judas was said by Eusebius to be Thomas' other name, but that was centuries later, like the Acts of Thomas was.
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The additional names "Judas" and "Didymus" have causd further confusion in apocryphal literature in regard to Thomas, and have led to his identification with Judas of James, and hence, with Thaddaeus (see THADDAEUS), and also with Judas the brother of Jesus (compare Matthew 13:55 [Is this not the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother’s name Mary, and aren’t His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?]). Thus in the "Acts of Thomas" he is twice called the "twin brother of the Messiah."
James the Just was also known as Jesus' brother.
It sounds like Jude/Judas (not Judas Iscariot) was another brother. It's not clear that this was Thomas.
http://biblehub.com/topical/t/thomas.htm

Anyway, I don't think the apostles would have been confusing Jesus with Thomas even if they were twins, since they lived with Jesus for 3 years and Thomas is said to have touched the risen Jesus.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 06:53:06 PM »
Indian tradition (AFAIK) is that he was called "the Twin" because two of his fingers were joined together.  They were healed (i.e., separated) after he inserted them into the wounds of Christ eight days after Christ's resurrection. 
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 06:58:49 PM »
AFAIK Talmai, not Tauma, is Aramaic for Ptolemy.
"He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty." (Psalm 90:1)

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Offline Gamliel

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2016, 07:03:17 PM »
Some think his twin was Matthew, since they are listed together in spots. :-\

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 07:17:32 PM »
Indian tradition (AFAIK) is that he was called "the Twin" because two of his fingers were joined together.  They were healed (i.e., separated) after he inserted them into the wounds of Christ eight days after Christ's resurrection.
Thanks for sharing.

Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 09:16:09 PM »
AFAIK Talmai, not Tauma, is Aramaic for Ptolemy.

That's not really likely, as the 'p' was pronounced in antiquity, and Greek names in Syriac are usually more obviously from Greek, i.e., they preserve a Greek nominative ending. The "Syriac Bibliographical Database" at syriaca.org gives the unvoweled name as <pṭwlwm'ws>, so either "Ptolomaos" or "Ptolomeos." Talmai, which is Tulmai in Syriac, is probably a name native to the region. It is the name of King David's father-in-law, the king of Geshur and grandfather of Absalom (2 Samuel 3:3, 1 Chronicles 3:2).
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
   and have become learned in the Scriptures,
and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

(Giwargis Warda, On Compunction of Soul)

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2016, 09:57:13 PM »
AFAIK Talmai, not Tauma, is Aramaic for Ptolemy.

That's not really likely, as the 'p' was pronounced in antiquity, and Greek names in Syriac are usually more obviously from Greek, i.e., they preserve a Greek nominative ending. The "Syriac Bibliographical Database" at syriaca.org gives the unvoweled name as <pṭwlwm'ws>, so either "Ptolomaos" or "Ptolomeos." Talmai, which is Tulmai in Syriac, is probably a name native to the region. It is the name of King David's father-in-law, the king of Geshur and grandfather of Absalom (2 Samuel 3:3, 1 Chronicles 3:2).
Oh, I see, I had just overread this name while reading about St. Bartholomew.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2016, 10:23:57 PM »
Well, every one in 4,000,000 virgin births result in twins.

Offline FinnJames

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2016, 01:46:44 AM »
This is a very interesting discussion, but what is its relevance?

Offline CarolS

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2016, 10:27:54 AM »
This supposition is the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. One cannot be a Christian believer and even entertain this train of thought. In order for Thomas to be Jesus' twin, either he would also have God as his father- 2 Sons of God? Or else the Virgin Mary was not a
 Virgin and 2 children were conceived in the same womb by different fathers! Or maybe you doubt that Jesus is truly the Son of God, thereby both Jesus and Thomas are mere mortal humans.
Just because an idea is ancient does not make it less heretical.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2016, 11:04:04 AM »
This is a very interesting discussion, but what is its relevance?

 ;)
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2016, 02:19:24 AM »
This supposition is the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. One cannot be a Christian believer and even entertain this train of thought. In order for Thomas to be Jesus' twin, either he would also have God as his father- 2 Sons of God? Or else the Virgin Mary was not a
 Virgin and 2 children were conceived in the same womb by different fathers! Or maybe you doubt that Jesus is truly the Son of God, thereby both Jesus and Thomas are mere mortal humans.
Just because an idea is ancient does not make it less heretical.

Maybe she had 2 wombs.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 03:48:54 PM »
This supposition is the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. One cannot be a Christian believer and even entertain this train of thought. In order for Thomas to be Jesus' twin, either he would also have God as his father- 2 Sons of God? Or else the Virgin Mary was not a
 Virgin and 2 children were conceived in the same womb by different fathers! Or maybe you doubt that Jesus is truly the Son of God, thereby both Jesus and Thomas are mere mortal humans.
Just because an idea is ancient does not make it less heretical.

Maybe she had 2 wombs.

One Orthodox and one Roman Catholic??
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline hecma925

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2017, 02:05:05 AM »
This supposition is the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. One cannot be a Christian believer and even entertain this train of thought. In order for Thomas to be Jesus' twin, either he would also have God as his father- 2 Sons of God? Or else the Virgin Mary was not a
 Virgin and 2 children were conceived in the same womb by different fathers! Or maybe you doubt that Jesus is truly the Son of God, thereby both Jesus and Thomas are mere mortal humans.
Just because an idea is ancient does not make it less heretical.

Maybe she had 2 wombs.

One Orthodox and one Roman Catholic??

Does two womb=two lung??
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline biro

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2017, 08:50:00 AM »
Not funny.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey

Offline hecma925

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2017, 09:34:34 AM »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Who was Thomas' twin? Jesus?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2017, 11:04:08 AM »
Not funny.

Go find your humerus.

No, I agree with her.  It ends now.
Mor has spoken through George... this is the faith of the fathers!

The Church's bridegroom was never the Byzantine Empire.