Author Topic: It's a shame to have long hair  (Read 245 times)

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Offline andrewlya

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It's a shame to have long hair
« on: June 23, 2016, 04:57:46 PM »
Hi all,
"Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him,"-1 Corinthians 11:14.

Why then are Jesus and many other holy people are depicted as having long hair?

I thought men of the O.T. would have long hair in general so what does this verse imply then?

Thanks for your thoughts.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 05:02:02 PM by andrewlya »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: It's a shame to have long hair
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2016, 05:09:33 PM »
Quote
If the pious practice among clergy and laity in the Christian community was to follow the example of the Old Testament, how then are we to understand the words of Saint Paul to the Corinthians cited earlier (I Cor. 11:14)? Saint Paul in the cited passage is addressing men and woman who are praying (cf. I Cor. 11:3-4). His words in the above passages, as well as in other passages concerning head coverings (cf. I Cor. 11: 4-7), are directed to laymen, not clergy. In other passages Saint Paul makes an obvious distinction between the clerical and lay rank (cf. I Cor. 4:1, I Tim. 4:6, Col. 1:7, and others). He did not oppose the Old Testament ordinance in regard to hair and beards since, as we have noted above, he himself observed it, as did Our Lord Himself, Who is depicted on all occasions with long hair and beard as the Great High Priest of the new Christian priest hood.

In our passage noted previously, Both not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? (I Cor. 11:14) Saint Paul uses the Greek word for "hair." This particular word for hair designates hair as an a ornament (the notion of length being only secondary and suggested), differing from [Gr.] thrix (the anatomical or physical term for hair). [1] Saint Paul's selection of words emphasizes his criticism of laymen wearing their hair in a stylized fashion, which was contrary to pious Jewish and Christian love of modesty. We note the same approach to hair as that of Saint Paul in the 96th canon of the Sixth Ecumenical Council where it states: "Those therefore who adorn and arrange their hair to the detri ment of those who see them, that is by cunningly devised intertwinings, and by this means put a bait in the way of unstable souls." [2]

In another source, The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary, we read the follow ing concerning the Old Testament practice: "To an extent, hair style was a matter of fashion, at least among the upper classes, who were particularly open to foreign [pagan] influence. Nevertheless, long hair appears to have been the rule among the Hebrews (cf. Ezek. 8:3), both men and women" [3] (cf. Cant 4:1; 7:5). Thus we observe that cropped or stylized hair was the fashion among the pagans and not acceptable, especially among the Christian clergy from most ancient times up to our contemporary break with Holy Tradition.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/clergy_hair.aspx
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Offline vamrat

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Re: It's a shame to have long hair
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2016, 05:27:11 PM »
Interesting.  The same word that St. Paul uses for "long hair" is used in Plutarch's Life of Lycurgus:

In time of war, too, they relaxed the severity of the young men's discipline, and permitted them to beautify their hair and ornament their arms and clothing, rejoicing to see them, like horses, prance and neigh for the contest.

Τότε δὲ καὶ τοῖς νέοις τὰ σκληρότατα τῆς ἀγωγῆς ἐπανιέντες, οὐκ ἐκώλυον καλλωπίζεσθαι περὶ κόμην καὶ κόσμον ὅπλων καὶ ἱματίων, χαίροντες, ὥσπερ ἵπποις, γαυριῶσι καὶ φρυαττομένοις πρὸς τοὺς ἀγῶνας.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Lycurgus*.html
https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%92%CE%AF%CE%BF%CE%B9_%CE%A0%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B9/%CE%9B%CF%85%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%8D%CF%81%CE%B3%CE%BF%CF%82
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: It's a shame to have long hair
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2016, 06:27:23 PM »
Hi all,
"Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him,"-1 Corinthians 11:14.

Why then are Jesus and many other holy people are depicted as having long hair?

To sum up what others have said: Because 1 Corinthians 11:14 doesn't say that.
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Offline LBK

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Re: It's a shame to have long hair
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 10:40:32 AM »
This old post might help:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48736.msg852509.html#msg852509

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
-1 Corinthians 11:14

This passage is so often mistranslated!  ::)

Here is the Greek of this verse:

14 ἢ οὐδὲ αὐτὴ ἡ φύσις διδάσκει ὑμᾶς ὅτι ἀνὴρ μὲν ἐὰν κομᾷ, ἀτιμία αὐτῷ ἐστι,

An acceptable modern vernacular translation of the bolded word koma is coiffed. The kom- root continues to exist in modern Greek, in the words kommotis/kommotria, the words for barber/hairdresser. So it is clear from the passage that styled hair, not long hair, is being frowned upon.

Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline wgw

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Re: It's a shame to have long hair
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 10:52:41 AM »
So alas, ironically, most "squares" of the 1960s who regularly visited the barbershop might be horrified to discover that the hippies with unkempt hair may have been followimg St. Paul better than they were, if only on that one point (but given that the KJV did translate it as "long" and thats what all Anglophones had thought was meant for centuries, you have to give them an E for Effort).

The real violators I suppose might be hollywppd types with short, highly styled hair.  I suppose the one time I got a very good haircut in my life, at a barbershop in Norway, at 15, when the barber insisted on modernizing my dull unstyled American barber-cut hair, I really transgressed this, although I did look good, and holding ones own aesthetically among the Norwegian teenagers is difficult even for a half-Swede, so there is that...

Offline Elisha

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Re: It's a shame to have long hair
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 12:40:41 PM »
So alas, ironically, most "squares" of the 1960s who regularly visited the barbershop might be horrified to discover that the hippies with unkempt hair may have been followimg St. Paul better than they were, if only on that one point (but given that the KJV did translate it as "long" and thats what all Anglophones had thought was meant for centuries, you have to give them an E for Effort).

The real violators I suppose might be hollywppd types with short, highly styled hair.  I suppose the one time I got a very good haircut in my life, at a barbershop in Norway, at 15, when the barber insisted on modernizing my dull unstyled American barber-cut hair, I really transgressed this, although I did look good, and holding ones own aesthetically among the Norwegian teenagers is difficult even for a half-Swede, so there is that...

You big sinner, you...go flog yourself.   ;) ;D

Offline andrewlya

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Re: It's a shame to have long hair
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 05:02:01 PM »
But was it not long-ish hair (up to shoulders) a common Hebrew hair "style" for men?

I know that pagan Egyptians, for example ,were skin heads, while Hewbrew Isralites men had longish hair, is it right or not?

So, when I read that verse from Saint Paul I was a bit confused by that, may be Saint Paul meant women-length wise hair (up to waist or something) is feminine and is for women rather than men? 
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: It's a shame to have long hair
« Reply #8 on: Today at 01:19:40 PM »

So, when I read that verse from Saint Paul I was a bit confused by that, may be Saint Paul meant women-length wise hair (up to waist or something) is feminine and is for women rather than men?
Maybe he didn't mean long hair?
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