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Author Topic: Archbishop vs. Bishop of Rome  (Read 2199 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: February 26, 2009, 07:16:51 PM »

Origin thread:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19903.msg296359.html

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I have never tried to hide the fact.  If you ever attend one of our Liturgies you will hear us commemorate "our Holy Ecumenical Pontiff, Benedict, Pope of Rome" at least four times. 

Technical question....

It was Pope Saint Anastasius at the end of the 4th century who assigned the title "Archbishop of Rome" to those who hold the Roman cathedra.  "Archbishop of Rome" is the title used by the Ecumenical Councils.

When and why was he demoted from an archbishop to a bishop?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 07:26:16 PM by Nebelpfade » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2009, 07:49:15 PM »

Origin thread:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19903.msg296359.html

-- Nebelpfade



I have never tried to hide the fact.  If you ever attend one of our Liturgies you will hear us commemorate "our Holy Ecumenical Pontiff, Benedict, Pope of Rome" at least four times. 

Technical question....

It was Pope Saint Anastasius at the end of the 4th century who assigned the title "Archbishop of Rome" to those who hold the Roman cathedra.  "Archbishop of Rome" is the title used by the Ecumenical Councils.

When and why was he demoted from an archbishop to a bishop?

And when did he become Ecumenical, as didn't Pope Gregory the Great tell EP John the Faster that anyone taking that title was the precursor of Antichrist?

And when did he work his way into the diptychs of an Eastern Church?  Such was not the tradition of the first millenium, where no Church commemorated the Pope of Rome except the Patriarchs, when they commemorated all the Patriarchs.
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2009, 08:33:04 PM »

Technical question....

It was Pope Saint Anastasius at the end of the 4th century who assigned the title "Archbishop of Rome" to those who hold the Roman cathedra.  "Archbishop of Rome" is the title used by the Ecumenical Councils.

When and why was he demoted from an archbishop to a bishop?

I believe the "Bishop of Rome" part refers to the Holy See, while "Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman province" refers to the Metropolitan Archdiocese of Rome.  Both are part of the Pope's full, formal title.
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2009, 08:54:36 PM »

I believe the "Bishop of Rome" part refers to the Holy See, while "Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman province" refers to the Metropolitan Archdiocese of Rome.  Both are part of the Pope's full, formal title.

Is this because the Pope lives in one country, Vatican City State, where is is the reigning monarch but he also has control of a diocese, Rome, which is outside his country of residency?
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2009, 11:34:55 PM »

Origin thread:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19903.msg296359.html

-- Nebelpfade



I have never tried to hide the fact.  If you ever attend one of our Liturgies you will hear us commemorate "our Holy Ecumenical Pontiff, Benedict, Pope of Rome" at least four times. 

Technical question....

It was Pope Saint Anastasius at the end of the 4th century who assigned the title "Archbishop of Rome" to those who hold the Roman cathedra.  "Archbishop of Rome" is the title used by the Ecumenical Councils.

When and why was he demoted from an archbishop to a bishop?

He wasn't.  The Full title is:
Bishop of Rome
Vicar of Christ
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
Patriarch of the West (dropped 2006) 
Primate of Italy
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City
Servant of the Servants of God
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2009, 12:12:50 AM »

Origin thread:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19903.msg296359.html

-- Nebelpfade



I have never tried to hide the fact.  If you ever attend one of our Liturgies you will hear us commemorate "our Holy Ecumenical Pontiff, Benedict, Pope of Rome" at least four times. 

Technical question....

It was Pope Saint Anastasius at the end of the 4th century who assigned the title "Archbishop of Rome" to those who hold the Roman cathedra.  "Archbishop of Rome" is the title used by the Ecumenical Councils.

When and why was he demoted from an archbishop to a bishop?

And when did he become Ecumenical, as didn't Pope Gregory the Great tell EP John the Faster that anyone taking that title was the precursor of Antichrist?

And when did he work his way into the diptychs of an Eastern Church?  Such was not the tradition of the first millenium, where no Church commemorated the Pope of Rome except the Patriarchs, when they commemorated all the Patriarchs.

The translators of the 65 Ruthenian Liturgicon made it our Holy Ecumenical Pontiff, The 07 Liturgicon simply has our Holy Father which matches the Greek Liturgicon published by Rome.  When the 07 revision was submitted to Rome that was one of the changes they insisted on stating Ecumenical was a title belonging to the Patriarch of Constantinople alone.

The CCEO requires the Pope, the church's Patriarch/Archbishop, the province's Metropolitan, as well as the eparchy's bishop be commemorated in the diptychs by all priests.  Although I think most, if not all, the Eastern Catholic Church already did that.  Some churches, like mine, also add his commemoration to the litanies while others, like the Melkites, do not.

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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2009, 12:38:53 PM »

Origin thread:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19903.msg296359.html

-- Nebelpfade



I have never tried to hide the fact.  If you ever attend one of our Liturgies you will hear us commemorate "our Holy Ecumenical Pontiff, Benedict, Pope of Rome" at least four times. 

Technical question....

It was Pope Saint Anastasius at the end of the 4th century who assigned the title "Archbishop of Rome" to those who hold the Roman cathedra.  "Archbishop of Rome" is the title used by the Ecumenical Councils.

When and why was he demoted from an archbishop to a bishop?
Is this a serious question? I mean, Archbishops are a kind of bishop and I think you know that. Even a Patriach can be referred to as a bishop because he is one.
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2009, 12:39:50 PM »

I believe the "Bishop of Rome" part refers to the Holy See, while "Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman province" refers to the Metropolitan Archdiocese of Rome.  Both are part of the Pope's full, formal title.

Is this because the Pope lives in one country, Vatican City State, where is is the reigning monarch but he also has control of a diocese, Rome, which is outside his country of residency?
No its because Archbishops and Mertropolitans are also bishops. Geesh.
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2009, 02:06:35 PM »

What a weird thread...One of the EP's titles is, I believe, "Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome" along with "Ecumenical Patriarch".

What's the issue here anyway?
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 07:50:11 PM »

What a weird thread...One of the EP's titles is, I believe, "Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome" along with "Ecumenical Patriarch".

What's the issue here anyway?
That's a really good quesstion....
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2009, 08:32:59 PM »

What a weird thread...One of the EP's titles is, I believe, "Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome" along with "Ecumenical Patriarch".

What's the issue here anyway?

The EP's official title is Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome, and Ecumenical Patriarch.  He's still the Archbishop of the district of New Rome (aka Constantinople), his direct see, just as the Patriarchs of Antioch, Alexandria, Moscow, etc. are all either Archbishops of their respective cities or Metropolitans.
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