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Poll
Question: Should children be spanked?
Absolutely yes! - 35 (18.6%)
In some cases, yes. - 85 (45.2%)
Maybe. - 14 (7.4%)
No, probably not. - 23 (12.2%)
Absolutely not! - 31 (16.5%)
Total Voters: 188

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 »   Go Down
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Author Topic: Spanking - Yea or Nay?  (Read 64042 times) Average Rating: 3
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« Reply #270 on: May 12, 2011, 03:53:33 PM »

3.   Apostles demands from parents maximum control over children life what always including spanking etc.

Have you talked to them that you are so sure about it?

Sould I presume you agree about 1,2,4 and 5?
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« Reply #271 on: May 12, 2011, 03:54:55 PM »

No, but this one is the most ridiculous.
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« Reply #272 on: May 12, 2011, 04:01:50 PM »

I always thought the "don't hit a girl" thing was stupid. Children should be taught not to hit anybody...
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« Reply #273 on: May 12, 2011, 06:37:37 PM »

I am not trying to be antagonistic, but what alternative response do you guys propose would have been appropriate to immediately and indelibly impress upon this child of limited reasoning and capability for language the dangerousness/forbiddenness of his behaviour?

That's a good question that we need to explore and not just default to spanking because it's the easiest answer.

NOTE: This was my post number 6666!  laugh
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« Reply #274 on: May 12, 2011, 06:41:12 PM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?
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« Reply #275 on: May 12, 2011, 06:44:31 PM »

I always thought the "don't hit a girl" thing was stupid. Children should be taught not to hit anybody...

Depends. If someone is beating up on your child, don't you think it would be appropriate for them to use a small amount of force to repel the attacker, even if its a girl?

I agree that the inequality is incorrect and that hitting boys should also be avoided. But I wouldn't have any more of a problem using force with a girl than I would a boy in a dire situation.
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« Reply #276 on: May 12, 2011, 07:51:26 PM »

I am not trying to be antagonistic, but what alternative response do you guys propose would have been appropriate to immediately and indelibly impress upon this child of limited reasoning and capability for language the dangerousness/forbiddenness of his behaviour?

That's a good question that we need to explore and not just default to spanking because it's the easiest answer.

NOTE: This was my post number 6666!  laugh

By all means. I don't claim to have answers, just pertinent (I hope) questions.
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« Reply #277 on: May 12, 2011, 11:25:54 PM »

No, but this one is the most ridiculous.
Then you obviously not appreciate holly fathers recommendation about kids education and 1Tim 3:4 is also not for you.
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« Reply #278 on: May 12, 2011, 11:25:54 PM »


Firstly, if children are brought up in the church, often they do not need spanking at all.






Kids “brought up in church .....” –  another great myth and speculation.

Hell full of people who “brought up in church”.

Kids whom disciplined well from day one often need no “spank”.




And topic not about how “OFTEN”,  topic about “YES” or “NOT”.

One enough to get  sentence and child was taken away giving to "lawful" GAY family etc.


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« Reply #279 on: May 13, 2011, 02:36:17 AM »

No, but this one is the most ridiculous.
Then you obviously not appreciate holly fathers recommendation about kids education and 1Tim 3:4 is also not for you.

You missed Tim 3, 3.
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« Reply #280 on: May 13, 2011, 08:00:16 AM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children. 
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« Reply #281 on: May 13, 2011, 08:17:54 AM »

I always thought the "don't hit a girl" thing was stupid. Children should be taught not to hit anybody...

Depends. If someone is beating up on your child, don't you think it would be appropriate for them to use a small amount of force to repel the attacker, even if its a girl?

I agree that the inequality is incorrect and that hitting boys should also be avoided. But I wouldn't have any more of a problem using force with a girl than I would a boy in a dire situation.

I meant not to hit anybody offensively (to initiate a fight, etc.)
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« Reply #282 on: May 13, 2011, 11:46:26 AM »

No, but this one is the most ridiculous.
Then you obviously not appreciate holly fathers recommendation about kids education and 1Tim 3:4 is also not for you.

You missed Tim 3, 3.

it should be a spanking, not beating
but ….. sound like you not in capacity to differentiate.



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« Reply #283 on: May 13, 2011, 11:46:26 AM »

Firstly, it should be a spanking, not beating or hitting of the head or in the stomach, or use of an instrument other than the hand. That is not spanking, that is brutality and abuse.

Spanking should be not as punishment but educational tool.

Any part of body may be used, and “instruments” as long it is reasonable (not need medical treatment).

Most Gentle lips slap for regular ongoing verbal issue – great lesson and remainder about issue.
Lips sensitive enough and need no strength application what so ever…
 (it is basic training in any sport specially in boxing – slap body part which responsible for error to make efficient emphasis about issue). Same on ballet and gymnastic etc. it is nerve system physiology.

To slap bottom 30-40 cm tiny tree branch – would be more efficient and safer rather hand.
it is impossible to damage tissue this way.(if it what people worry about)


1-2 slaps normally would do job to deliver message to the brain.

If it not work I would recommend sport as alternative education form. Not “for silly  fun” but performance stuff. There are basic standard for child: running, swimming, biking, chin ups, squats and lot of other exercise to sweat off, doing which kid may think about life. 

As holy father say – “metanoya” achievable only if our body struggle. Performance sport is about “struggle”.

I not like “modern Olympic humanism rubbish talk”,  but original cuberten’s Olympic creed  say:
Sport is model of real life , you may not win , but would struggle for sure ( it is not word by word). So it is rational and not antichristian. I do appreciate such educational tools as major one, and spanking as basic shock application to “sober” up same as drunk man need cold shower but not over froze tissue. 



So SPANKING used for sober UP.
It is not punishment it is wake up call.


I saw “swidden” coach slapping on cheeks “underage” athlete on Olympic games before event start (not for panishment), and look like she was ok with it.

Like to know was he prosecuted for this back home?

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« Reply #284 on: May 13, 2011, 02:48:52 PM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children. 


People take ethical opinions on all sorts of fields that they don't have experience in.
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« Reply #285 on: May 13, 2011, 08:46:05 PM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children. 


People take ethical opinions on all sorts of fields that they don't have experience in.
Just because you have opinions doesn't make them accurate.
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« Reply #286 on: May 13, 2011, 09:00:29 PM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children. 


People take ethical opinions on all sorts of fields that they don't have experience in.
Just because you have opinions doesn't make them accurate.

Peter, get a clue! I never suggested anywhere that that was the case. And the fact that you are implying that is probably just part part of your continual grudge (and how you developed this, I have no idea what-so-ever) against me. All I said was that the common conception that opinions on child-rearing from those without children are not worth considering, precisely what jah777 was suggesting, was inconsistent because we do this in all sorts of fields.
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« Reply #287 on: May 13, 2011, 11:01:38 PM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children. 


People take ethical opinions on all sorts of fields that they don't have experience in.
Just because you have opinions doesn't make them accurate.

Peter, get a clue! I never suggested anywhere that that was the case. And the fact that you are implying that is probably just part part of your continual grudge (and how you developed this, I have no idea what-so-ever) against me.
Dude, you're the one who needs to get a clue if you think I have a grudge against you. Cool
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« Reply #288 on: May 14, 2011, 01:36:22 AM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children.  


People take ethical opinions on all sorts of fields that they don't have experience in.
Just because you have opinions doesn't make them accurate.

For the record, can an opinion be or not be accurate, since it is a personal view on the world?  Unless DVE is maliciously deceiving himself, wouldn't his opinion by nature be accurate?   Wink
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 01:36:56 AM by vamrat » Logged
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« Reply #289 on: May 14, 2011, 02:32:59 AM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children.  


People take ethical opinions on all sorts of fields that they don't have experience in.
Just because you have opinions doesn't make them accurate.

For the record, can an opinion be or not be accurate, since it is a personal view on the world?  Unless DVE is maliciously deceiving himself, wouldn't his opinion by nature be accurate?   Wink
Well, I heard it this way: Opinions are like bellybuttons: everyone has one, and they're all pretty much useless.
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« Reply #290 on: May 14, 2011, 02:43:23 AM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children.  


People take ethical opinions on all sorts of fields that they don't have experience in.
Just because you have opinions doesn't make them accurate.

For the record, can an opinion be or not be accurate, since it is a personal view on the world?  Unless DVE is maliciously deceiving himself, wouldn't his opinion by nature be accurate?   Wink
Well, I heard it this way: Opinions are like bellybuttons: everyone has one, and they're all pretty much useless.

Nice.  And clean!  I usually heard it referring to the bottom and it's malevolent odor.
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« Reply #291 on: May 14, 2011, 02:54:34 AM »

No, I don't believe that spanking is an appropriate correctional method (even more so if it's just being used as a punishment).

Just to be clear, you do have children, right?

No, why would you assume that?

I just thought I would ask.  I generally do not take parenting advice from people who do not have children.  


People take ethical opinions on all sorts of fields that they don't have experience in.
Just because you have opinions doesn't make them accurate.

For the record, can an opinion be or not be accurate, since it is a personal view on the world?  Unless DVE is maliciously deceiving himself, wouldn't his opinion by nature be accurate?   Wink
Well, I heard it this way: Opinions are like bellybuttons: everyone has one, and they're all pretty much useless.

Nice.  And clean!  I usually heard it referring to the bottom and it's malevolent odor.
I thought about using that variant. Cool
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« Reply #292 on: May 25, 2011, 01:56:59 AM »


Most Gentle lips slap for regular ongoing verbal issue – great lesson and remainder about issue.
Lips sensitive enough and need no strength application what so ever…
 (it is basic training in any sport specially in boxing – slap body part which responsible for error to make efficient emphasis about issue). Same on ballet and gymnastic etc. it is nerve system physiology.

What? hahaha
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« Reply #293 on: July 13, 2011, 03:36:02 PM »

I have read all 292 posts in this thread (yeah 7 pages) and i wouldn't have commented other then i think most of you are missing some rli mega things.

1...The problem with personal experience...PeterTheAlute is right to bring up reacting against spanking because of emotionalism. That's what i think people base their reasons on especially if they was hit way too much it makes them knee jerk in the opposite direction or sometimes even it makes people the same with their own kids and justify being way to harsh on them. Both the extremes of people go find random bible verses to back up there position. What better authority to justify a position then a religious one eh??


2...The problem with using the OT verses....Neon Knights said that people are citing those verses to justify their position and i agree. There are a tonne of other verses in the OT to do with kids and teens and what you should do and people pick and choose which one they want to follow.

"This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard". Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death - Deut 21

The reason people cite random verses is based on a belief they have already got inside themself from their own experience. If they was interested in objective truth then they would look at the whole text and see what the whole religious ethos is not just a few old parts from one culture.


3...The problem with "spanking is different to hitting"... which is what monkvasyl said. Nah it's not. You might like to tell yourself it is but when a kid who is two or three years old, smacks another kid on the arm or face or head, even if its a "light tap" you tell them what?? YEP...."No, (insert celebrity fruit name in here) don't hit your brother" or just "NO hitting!!". So the definition of what constitutes a hit or a tap or a smack is dependent on whos doing it obviously. That is typical parental lies, self delusion and mixed messages for the kid.... they will grow up lying to themselves and unable to admit when they are wrong thas what your teaching them.


4...The problem with the "important thing is consistency"....which is what Nazarene brought up. How does this work if your doing something consistently damaging and you don't realise it?? "Whatever you do, make sure it's consistent"... don't really make any sense then huh??


5...The problem with using disapproval and disappointment which lizaSymonenko mentioned would sometimes sting more than a switch. It's true it does sting kids but isn't good because i never used to think OH there disappointed with what I DID or DONE i used to think OH there disapproving of ME and they dont like me. I don't even care if you tell a small kid "mommy is only cross at what your behaviour but mommy still wuvs you"..... i think that a kid hears "blah blah blah blah blah yawn blah.... i don't like you"


6... The problem with physical punishment. Margaret Anne said that..."As for a swat on the backside, that was a tactic that brought out quiet defiance in me as a child," and shes right, it does with some kids, it did to me. Plus then people who use physical punishment to small kids it goes back to argument number 3 which is rubbish as well. SolEX01 made me laugh loud saying that supernanny never smacks...haha.... SHES NOT ALLOWED TO lolOl


7... The problem with time out....Margaret Anne is right about this as well....what do you do with a kid who doesn't care about time out??...as a kid, i didn't care about anything, i had no toys of my own nothing of value because it used to get nicked off you from older kids. You couldn't confiscate anything off me, or put me in a room because it wouldn't have no effect on me. One lady in Bristol (a nice lady i feel bad for her now) but she put me on the bottom step to sit there for spitting food at her kid and i stayed there without a problem for aaaaages and then when she told me well done and i got off the step and back to the table to eat, i just smacked the kid in the face. Some kids especially defiant ones like i was, don't care about anything like that.


8... The problem with no legal retaliation....Vamrat said that MK should allow the same choice to be made by the spankers without the fear of legal action.... is that you have to have laws about physical and emotional abuse and neglect. The only way you can have no fear for the parents is... no laws about it....which means parents would be free totally to do whatever the heck they wanted with their kids and kids would go back to being too vulnerable without anyone being able to be brought to justice for their crimes.


9...The problem with the natural consequences..... is that when people are like "oh i prefer natural consequences" those are the parents who pander to there kids way to much and even pull them out of the way when a "natural consequence" is about to happen to them lolOl then there kids grow up to never take responsibility and usually are weak and cant cope with life. And i will mention it here because i can't fit it in any other catagory but I disagree with Quinault on their no negotiation because it could go on forever, comment....if you want obedience, get a dog!!


10... The problem with being Orthodox and punishment....Alive is correct, people are mixing up correction with punishment..... i couldn't believe how far the thread got before someone mentioned that!!! I was told recently about the moderation on me when i described it as a sentence... "its not punishment its correction".... i was like, well it feels the same to me haha... but yeah there is a difference and if Orthodox people believe that sin is a virus and its all a sickness when we sin and that God is into healing.... then that should be the same when it comes to kids and when they do something wrong shouldn't it??? You don't need to be punished.... your just sick and need correction not punishment. Is it just me that can see the two standards in there huh??


The answers Wink....one of the real problems is that children are the center of their parents' world in a wrong and negative way and it annoys the heck out of me!!!! And i think it hurts the kids. You can tell them parents because they are in supermarkets and they talk rli loud like as if they are talking to the kid but really they are talking to everyone else thats listening because the PARENT wants the attention maybe from other parents or maybe just anyone. Its like their kid is their "project" and their being used for the parents to show off. UGH!!! Its a symptom and when ever i have got to know a person that does that, they have ALWAYS been the same type of person and there kid is apparently the center of their world and yet... not. Sadly.

Every kid should be important to their parents but in the right way. Allot of parents are more interested in their parenting style and getting it right NOT because its the best for their kid but because of what they look like to their friends or family or church. That means that their kids real needs gets pushed aside becuase the parent is way to rapped up in themself and what this all means to them....and their ego and their rights as a parent to be free to do what they see fit.

If your kid is important to you then you will actually know who they are and stop being bothered about YOUR opinions on smacking or not smacking or YOUR parenting style and how this all affects YOU and your beliefs.

One of the things that i learnt growing up in various kids homes is that you are invisible, noone cares about you and your not important, you get moved about like a piece of furniture in storage (im not saying that for sympathy, i had a good time growing up, i have got a good point) The reason its good is that it means that you are just a nom like everyone else, nothing special, not precious and you learn to deal with your place in the world. You don't grow up thinking that you are so special and that everyone is going to applaud every time you fart and you don't get rescued from situations by your parents, you just have to learn to deal with them. Dealing with them early on by yourself means that you dont have a crisis when your older when you can REALLy do harm to yourself like drugs and all that stuff because you figured out who you are early on. Now you can see why i think i am lucky to have not had parents from 5 upwards and also to not have had tight boundaries. It did me good, it was good for me personally.

* * *

Quotes that just blew me away...

seraphim98...
Quote
For older teens and maybe young adults, public caning for vandalism and similar level offenses is better than jail time.

Gorazd...
Quote
Psychologists would say that the greatest advocates of violent educations are the ones who suffered from that themselves when they were children, and now they subconsciously want to pass on the pain to their own children. I would whether there is some truth to that.


IPC....
Quote
Sometimes it's crucial to spank the child. The other night, I was in a family dinner, and my 2 years old nice was sitting next to me. As soon as the waiter placed the fondue on the table, the baby got excited and and tried to reach it, we told her it burns, but she insisted, and every time we stopped her, she started yelling, and hitting, and crying, she didn't listen to her papa. The last time the baby stood on her chair trying to reach the fondue, her papa spanked her, and the baby sat down immediately, cried a little bit, and after his papa conforted her, she behaved.

What's worst a burnt baby because you don't hit girls, or a safe baby who learned her lesson?

What's better is a responsible adult who don't order fondue when they have a baby out with them or if another person orders it then move the baby away from the danger zone instead of slapping the baby for something an adult can and should deal with.

Papist...
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Being angry is not the worst thing that can happen to a person

wow what planet are you on??


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« Reply #294 on: July 13, 2011, 06:36:18 PM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn
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« Reply #295 on: July 14, 2011, 12:41:58 AM »

Poppy, you are the greatest post organizer ever. For reals.
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« Reply #296 on: July 14, 2011, 01:55:04 AM »

And i will mention it here because i can't fit it in any other catagory but I disagree with Quinault on their no negotiation because it could go on forever, comment....if you want obedience, get a dog!!


Teach a child to negotiate too much and you end up with no peace;

"Can you please go clean your room."
"After I clean my room can I watch a movie?"
"No, then we need to have lunch"
After I clean my room and eat lunch can I watch a movie?"
No,we aren't watching TV today."
"Then after I clean my room and have lunch can I play computer games?"

And on and on and on and on at infinitem.......

Negotiation is a valuable skill but teaching a child that they should only do "x" so that they can get "y" is an extreme disservice to them. In life we have responsibilities that we must attend to simply because they are necessary and you don't "get" anything out of doing it. Obedience is an important skill to have and negotiating everything with your child does not teach obedience or responsiblity.




Ok, so where did you get the idea that I want my children to obey like dogs or that I encourage no negotiation?
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« Reply #297 on: July 14, 2011, 12:26:30 PM »

And i will mention it here because i can't fit it in any other catagory but I disagree with Quinault on their no negotiation because it could go on forever, comment....if you want obedience, get a dog!!


Teach a child to negotiate too much and you end up with no peace;

"Can you please go clean your room."
"After I clean my room can I watch a movie?"
"No, then we need to have lunch"
After I clean my room and eat lunch can I watch a movie?"
No,we aren't watching TV today."
"Then after I clean my room and have lunch can I play computer games?"

And on and on and on and on at infinitem.......

Negotiation is a valuable skill but teaching a child that they should only do "x" so that they can get "y" is an extreme disservice to them. In life we have responsibilities that we must attend to simply because they are necessary and you don't "get" anything out of doing it. Obedience is an important skill to have and negotiating everything with your child does not teach obedience or responsiblity.




Ok, so where did you get the idea that I want my children to obey like dogs or that I encourage no negotiation?

Ok i shouldn't have said no negotiation, because you said that you think its a valuable skill. Its just negotiating "everything" with them that you think is not good. I dont like the whole obedience thing it does my head in. Sorry Quinault i din't read it properly.
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« Reply #298 on: July 15, 2011, 01:38:51 AM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.
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« Reply #299 on: July 15, 2011, 03:48:03 PM »

I would give a bit of my history concerning this. I was physically abused in my home by my step father which led to me to be removed from my mother's care from 10 years old on. I learned in that time the difference between spanking (something my biological father did, in moderation, and never anger, God rest him), and beating (what my step father did to me).

There is a huge difference. I spanked my son (who is 14 now, and taller than I am) when he was younger. He didnt turn out warped, or violent, or scarred or anything. Before I diciplined him, I would sit him down, explain his error, and the punishment that it brought. I made it clear to him that I loved him but that whatever it was would not be tolerated. After the deed was done (and I stopped crying....heh heh) I would go back in and talk to him. He has never held resentment (and often times agreed with what was done) and he's turning out to be a good boy. I hope he also does the same with his children. I know I will if the Lord blesses me.

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« Reply #300 on: July 15, 2011, 04:05:36 PM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Hey Poppy,
Just curious how you feel about priest imposed penance for sins? Say at confession you tell him about a reoccurring sin and he prescribes some sort of penance to help drive home a point or modify your behavior. Is that any different?  (As far as punishment goes)
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« Reply #301 on: July 15, 2011, 04:54:56 PM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Hey Poppy,
Just curious how you feel about priest imposed penance for sins? Say at confession you tell him about a reoccurring sin and he prescribes some sort of penance to help drive home a point or modify your behavior. Is that any different?  (As far as punishment goes)

well i don't like it lolOl But seriously what precedent is there for it?? Like where did the priest get that idea from??
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« Reply #302 on: July 15, 2011, 06:08:29 PM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Everyone has boundaries. Without boundaries, we are set to explore and accept all options without understanding or regard to consequence.

Parenting involves teaching children 20, 30, 40+ years of life experience. Punishment drives points home, not by hate, but through love. Is God devoid of this concept?
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« Reply #303 on: July 15, 2011, 10:01:58 PM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Everyone has boundaries. Without boundaries, we are set to explore and accept all options without understanding or regard to consequence.

Parenting involves teaching children 20, 30, 40+ years of life experience. Punishment drives points home, not by hate, but through love. Is God devoid of this concept?

I agree everyone does have boundaries but some are natural and some are made up. I think kids understand more consequences than adults let them. Sometimes adults make up Sooooo many boundaries that arn't necessary and smother their kid with them so that they can't even breathe. I don't know if God is devoid of this concept or not....you will have to give me examples.

If punishment is right then why doesn't God use it to drive a point home with you?? Is it Gods kindness and goodness  that leads to repentance or his punishment huh?? Romans 2
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« Reply #304 on: July 16, 2011, 05:02:25 PM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Hey Poppy,
Just curious how you feel about priest imposed penance for sins? Say at confession you tell him about a reoccurring sin and he prescribes some sort of penance to help drive home a point or modify your behavior. Is that any different?  (As far as punishment goes)

well i don't like it lolOl But seriously what precedent is there for it?? Like where did the priest get that idea from??

It is a very common practice throughout the history of the Church. There are cannons saying if you willingly miss church multiple times then you have to go a period without communion as penance, for example. And I think you are looking at punishment as having to be negative. Let's say I'm a Christian but had a bit of a falling out and I'm not really living the right life. If God sends something painful into my life as a wake up call to remind me of my sinfulness and help me repent then that is positive not negative. It isn't because of God's hate for me and my sin that he sent that hardship, it was because He loves me and wants me to wake up so I can live repentant and, God willing, inherit His kingdom. Pain doesn't equal bad.
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« Reply #305 on: July 16, 2011, 06:52:35 PM »

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Everyone has boundaries. Without boundaries, we are set to explore and accept all options without understanding or regard to consequence.

Parenting involves teaching children 20, 30, 40+ years of life experience. Punishment drives points home, not by hate, but through love. Is God devoid of this concept?

I agree everyone does have boundaries but some are natural and some are made up. I think kids understand more consequences than adults let them. Sometimes adults make up Sooooo many boundaries that arn't necessary and smother their kid with them so that they can't even breathe. I don't know if God is devoid of this concept or not....you will have to give me examples.

You will have to give me examples of unnecessary boundaries, as well. It's vague, and we may or may not agree with what a boundary is, or what is smothering.

If punishment is right then why doesn't God use it to drive a point home with you?? Is it Gods kindness and goodness  that leads to repentance or his punishment huh?? Romans 2

Obviously the OT God is depicted as sending punishment. Of course, the NT God isn't described in this way, but He is never changing. We also accept that God allows evil in the world, not just because of free will, but also for our sanctification. Many of us are brought back to God through pain and suffering. Though sin is not of God, allowing sin can be method of consequence and instruction. We apply this to ourselves with fasting.
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« Reply #306 on: July 16, 2011, 06:58:29 PM »

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Everyone has boundaries. Without boundaries, we are set to explore and accept all options without understanding or regard to consequence.

Parenting involves teaching children 20, 30, 40+ years of life experience. Punishment drives points home, not by hate, but through love. Is God devoid of this concept?

I agree everyone does have boundaries but some are natural and some are made up. I think kids understand more consequences than adults let them. Sometimes adults make up Sooooo many boundaries that arn't necessary and smother their kid with them so that they can't even breathe. I don't know if God is devoid of this concept or not....you will have to give me examples.

You will have to give me examples of unnecessary boundaries, as well. It's vague, and we may or may not agree with what a boundary is, or what is smothering.

If punishment is right then why doesn't God use it to drive a point home with you?? Is it Gods kindness and goodness  that leads to repentance or his punishment huh?? Romans 2

Obviously the OT God is depicted as sending punishment. Of course, the NT God isn't described in this way, but He is never changing. We also accept that God allows evil in the world, not just because of free will, but also for our sanctification. Many of us are brought back to God through pain and suffering. Though sin is not of God, allowing sin can be method of consequence and instruction. We apply this to ourselves with fasting.

Nope. I don't agree and i don't like it either so, i'm done. Thanks for the chat though.
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« Reply #307 on: July 16, 2011, 07:05:34 PM »



Nope. I don't agree and i don't like it either so, i'm done. Thanks for the chat though.

I think your avatar is the picture to the above caption  Grin
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« Reply #308 on: July 16, 2011, 07:58:16 PM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Hey Poppy,
Just curious how you feel about priest imposed penance for sins? Say at confession you tell him about a reoccurring sin and he prescribes some sort of penance to help drive home a point or modify your behavior. Is that any different?  (As far as punishment goes)

well i don't like it lolOl But seriously what precedent is there for it?? Like where did the priest get that idea from??

(A)It is a very common practice throughout the history of the Church. There are cannons saying if you willingly miss church multiple times then you have to go a period without communion as penance, for example. (B)And I think you are looking at punishment as having to be negative. Let's say I'm a Christian but had a bit of a falling out and I'm not really living the right life. (c)If God sends something painful into my life as a wake up call to remind me of my sinfulness and help me repent then that is positive not negative. It isn't because of God's hate for me and my sin that he sent that hardship, it was because He loves me and wants me to wake up so I can live repentant and, God willing, inherit His kingdom. (d)Pain doesn't equal bad.

(A) ok i didn't know that but about the eucharist i can understand that because it says not to eat or drink in a unworthy manner so, that's not punishment thats just something you have done yourself and those are the direct consequences of it. Noone is really imposing anything on you.

(b) Punishment IS negative!!!

(c) no but it is doing it by fear.... can i slap someone for banging into me several times.... to remind them and teach them?? Why would God remind someone of how sick they are (sin = sickness) by sending more pain in their life?? That is directly apposed to what the bible says about the kindness of God leading someone to repent AND all the other places where it says that when wrong is done to you then you should love back. Discipline isn't punishment isn't....discipline is about teaching someone a thing and punishment is about paying for the wrong you did. Like prison, that's punishment.

(d) I know pain doesn't equal bad because there is pain for healing and good purpose like surgery and childbirth and pain for negative purposes like mashing someone up to remind them that they disrespected you... that kind of thing, good for them because it will help them to learn?? NOT. what the bible goes on about and not what quotes i have read say either. There is other ways of teaching someone something without using punishment. (im not saying your one) but i think rubbish parents use that as a excuse.
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« Reply #309 on: July 16, 2011, 07:58:16 PM »



Nope. I don't agree and i don't like it either so, i'm done. Thanks for the chat though.

I think your avatar is the picture to the above caption  Grin

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« Reply #310 on: July 17, 2011, 10:37:13 AM »

How would you handle the terrible two's?

~ Dyhn
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« Reply #311 on: July 17, 2011, 12:57:05 PM »

How would you handle the terrible two's?

~ Dyhn

Patience. Lots of it. (Easy for me to say, we had two fairly passive girls). 
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« Reply #312 on: July 17, 2011, 02:58:28 PM »

Great post Poppy! I am left wondering how you would discipline a child and what your own plan would involve.

I am particularly interested in number 10

~ Dyhn

I don't think you can have a plan if you don't know the kid yet 'v(*-*)v'
and you cant punish a kid if you don't believe in punishment from God.... its not consistent.
generally i think all kids need to not have adult responsibilitys which usually turn out as worries or making desisions about stupid things but they should have proper responsibilities as soon as they can do them so that they learn to deal with the world. I wouldnt have to many boundaires or rules either i think rules crush a kid and make them a pathetic person.


Hey Poppy,
Just curious how you feel about priest imposed penance for sins? Say at confession you tell him about a reoccurring sin and he prescribes some sort of penance to help drive home a point or modify your behavior. Is that any different?  (As far as punishment goes)

well i don't like it lolOl But seriously what precedent is there for it?? Like where did the priest get that idea from??

(A)It is a very common practice throughout the history of the Church. There are cannons saying if you willingly miss church multiple times then you have to go a period without communion as penance, for example. (B)And I think you are looking at punishment as having to be negative. Let's say I'm a Christian but had a bit of a falling out and I'm not really living the right life. (c)If God sends something painful into my life as a wake up call to remind me of my sinfulness and help me repent then that is positive not negative. It isn't because of God's hate for me and my sin that he sent that hardship, it was because He loves me and wants me to wake up so I can live repentant and, God willing, inherit His kingdom. (d)Pain doesn't equal bad.

(A) ok i didn't know that but about the eucharist i can understand that because it says not to eat or drink in a unworthy manner so, that's not punishment thats just something you have done yourself and those are the direct consequences of it. Noone is really imposing anything on you.

(b) Punishment IS negative!!!

(c) no but it is doing it by fear.... can i slap someone for banging into me several times.... to remind them and teach them?? Why would God remind someone of how sick they are (sin = sickness) by sending more pain in their life?? That is directly apposed to what the bible says about the kindness of God leading someone to repent AND all the other places where it says that when wrong is done to you then you should love back. Discipline isn't punishment isn't....discipline is about teaching someone a thing and punishment is about paying for the wrong you did. Like prison, that's punishment.

(d) I know pain doesn't equal bad because there is pain for healing and good purpose like surgery and childbirth and pain for negative purposes like mashing someone up to remind them that they disrespected you... that kind of thing, good for them because it will help them to learn?? NOT. what the bible goes on about and not what quotes i have read say either. There is other ways of teaching someone something without using punishment. (im not saying your one) but i think rubbish parents use that as a excuse.

a- Every cause of punishment is something you do to yourself. Mom says don't touch, you touch. That is you bringing punishment on yourself. God says repent and be saved, you choose not to. That is your bringing punishment on yourself.

b- Punishment that brings about change isn't negative. The only part of punishment that could negative would be the pain but even then you admit that not all pain is negative. Let me quote, "there is pain for healing and good purpose".

c- Lets run with your analogy. If someone is sick, but doesn't believe they are, how can you get them to realize their sickness? Heal them? Maybe, but if they didn't think they were sick they may not recognize the healing. So we're left to make them sicker. You don't take medicine when you feel good. You have to feel bad enough to trigger your mind to remember, oh, I need medicine I need to feel better. This is what God does.

d- You are using too broad of a brush. Just because there may be an upside to punishment doesn't make it the best option in all situations. In your example, yes, beating someone up who disrespects you will not help. But that isn't a loving punishment either. That is a human trying to exact revenge which is God's alone. But a mother who spanks a child who repeatedly disobeys a specific rule isn't looking for revenge, she is correcting the child. It isn't smart to ban corporal punishment because some misuse it. It would serve us better to teach love and boundaries to those who need them. 

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« Reply #313 on: July 17, 2011, 03:36:58 PM »

I would give a bit of my history concerning this. I was physically abused in my home by my step father which led to me to be removed from my mother's care from 10 years old on. I learned in that time the difference between spanking (something my biological father did, in moderation, and never anger, God rest him), and beating (what my step father did to me).

(a)There is a huge difference. I spanked my son (who is 14 now, and taller than I am) when he was younger. (b)He didnt turn out warped, or violent, or scarred or anything. Before I diciplined him, I would sit him down, explain his error, and the punishment that it brought. I made it clear to him that I loved him but that whatever it was would not be tolerated. After the deed was done (and I stopped crying....heh heh) I would go back in and talk to him. He has never held resentment (and often times agreed with what was done) and he's turning out to be a good boy. I hope he also does the same with his children. I know I will if the Lord blesses me.

primuspilus

(a) The only difference there is.... is that one leaves a mark and the other doesn't always. It don't make it right.

(b) ok so by that amazing piece of logic then, the fact that my physical injuries healed in my case and i didn't turn out bad, means that what happened to me was ok?? What absolute crud reasons you use to justify what you do. And just because he is complient with what you did, don't add any weight to the rightness of your actions either. So hes a "good boy" now huh?? glad you got what you wanted.
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« Reply #314 on: July 17, 2011, 03:36:58 PM »

How would you handle the terrible two's?

~ Dyhn
depends on the kid.... i think thas where parents go wrong, they make it out to be a huge big thing about what their style is of parenting and forget that there is a kid they subject to all this crud.
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