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Author Topic: Peace on the forum  (Read 4758 times) Average Rating: 0
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Anastasios
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« on: February 15, 2009, 12:31:22 AM »

Dear Board Members,

There has been a lot of tension over the past few weeks in several threads, with some major personality clashes.  Many have gotten angry and some things have been said which should not have been said.

We are working to diffuse these issues behind the scenes and I ask you all to be patient with one another and us as we work towards this goal. It's the time of the Triodion; I believe that the Devil is very interested in our dissension and in assisting us to fail to be charitable towards one another.

If anyone feels that I have not done enough to keep the forum peaceful or have even disturbed the forum by getting involved in some of the controversies in a partisan way, I apologize and ask forgiveness.

In Christ,

Fr Anastasios
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 12:31:43 AM by Fr. Anastasios » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 02:46:58 AM »

As someone involved with these matters, I would like to say that I am pleased that the Admins are indeed acting to put things to rights (for one thing you can see the important change in wording in my Warning where the "knowingly" has been removed.  When I saw that I breathed a sigh of relief that the charge of lying has been removed.  Many thanks.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19559.msg289444.html )

Apart from the Admins I think that all the Moderators prefer to remain anonymous and use screennames.  Maybe that could change?

A positive note  -  coming here as I did as a refugee after several years on CAF, it was immediately noticeable that here on this Forum there is a quite different atmosphere and a quite different relationship between the Moderators and the members.  Apart from the praiseworthy Joe Monahan on CAF all the CAF Moderators prefer to live on the distant mountaintops of Olympus and make their presence known only to lock threads and suspend and ban members.  To borrow an American colloquialism:  They are there to "kick a...."

Here on OC.net Mods and Admins mix it up with members and take part in discussions.  I can appreciate that this sometimes causes tension when the role of Moderator conflicts with the role of participant.   But depite that small drawback I really do appreciate the relationship here where Mods will participate in threads and in general act very humanely.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 02:57:16 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 03:00:21 AM »

Apart from the Admins I think that all the Moderators prefer to remain anonymous and use screennames.  Maybe that could change?
NO! Angry Grin  I may be a moderator, but I am still a poster just like everyone else here.  As such, I share the same concern for my internet security that most other posters here share.  Nice try, though. Wink


Here on OC.net Mods and Admins mix it up with members and take part in discussions.  I can appreciate that this sometimes causes tension when the role of Moderator conflicts with the role of participant.   But depite that small drawback I really do appreciate the relationship here where Mods will participate in threads and in general act very humanely.
Thanks for the encouragement. Smiley  We certainly do try... Wink
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2009, 03:08:56 AM »

Apart from the Admins I think that all the Moderators prefer to remain anonymous and use screennames.  Maybe that could change?
Why?
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2009, 03:13:08 AM »

There has been a lot of tension over the past few weeks in several threads, with some major personality clashes. 
I wouldn't say that.
I would say that two posters disagreed, one poster refuses to accept what the other poster claims and refuted their evidence. Isn't that what a discussion forum is about? "Personalities" should not enter into it, and at any rate, how can anyone know someone's personality from a typed post?
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 03:15:48 AM »

Apart from the Admins I think that all the Moderators prefer to remain anonymous and use screennames.  Maybe that could change?
NO! Angry Grin  I may be a moderator, but I am still a poster just like everyone else here.  As such, I share the same concern for my internet security that most other posters here share.  Nice try, though. Wink

The Admins are identifiable.  But the Mods prefer anonymity?
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 03:18:37 AM »

The Admins are identifiable.  But the Mods prefer anonymity?

Yep. We're no fools. We've seen how many crackpots frequent the forum.
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 03:27:00 AM »

Apart from the Admins I think that all the Moderators prefer to remain anonymous and use screennames.  Maybe that could change?
Why?

I suppose because it is an offence against justice that a man should be censored and judged by those who are anonymous and use screennames.  If such serious actions have to take place on the Forum and especially when they involve a man's good name, maybe such actions ought to be left to the Admins who have identified themselves?


However, I wrote to express my appreciation over

1) the correction of the erroneous charge in my Warning and

2) my appreciation of the "hands-on" involvement of Admins and Mods and

3) the desire of the Admins to bring peace back to the Forum.   

I don't really want to get involved in another argy-bargy with you and Peter.  I respect the Admins' wish to stop the provocation and allow the Forum to return to a level of tranquillity.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 03:32:28 AM »

On CAF the mods had an admin handle and a regular posting handle. They didn't post in discussion as mods, they used their regular posting handles to post in discussions. They actually had MORE anonimity that way.
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 03:33:41 AM »

I don't really want to get involved in another argy-bargy with you and Peter. 
Then why did you request things extraneous to the stated purpose of your post like requesting that Mods reveal their identity? Your post was not simply to express ypour appreciation of :
1) the correction of the erroneous charge in my Warning and

2) my appreciation of the "hands-on" involvement of Admins and Mods and

3) the desire of the Admins to bring peace back to the Forum.
because it included this little gem:
Apart from the Admins I think that all the Moderators prefer to remain anonymous and use screennames.  Maybe that could change?
 
So which part of the stated purpose of you "appreciative" post does this fit into?
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2009, 03:35:34 AM »

On CAF the mods had an admin handle and a regular posting handle. They didn't post in discussion as mods, they used their regular posting handles to post in discussions. They actually had MORE anonimity that way.
Yep. They all thought they knew the Mods names on CAF, but in fact, they were nom de plumes.
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2009, 03:36:29 AM »

Apart from the Admins I think that all the Moderators prefer to remain anonymous and use screennames.  Maybe that could change?
NO! Angry Grin  I may be a moderator, but I am still a poster just like everyone else here.  As such, I share the same concern for my internet security that most other posters here share.  Nice try, though. Wink


Just a small addition if I may..... on all Orthdodox boards -Orthodox-Forum, Orthodox-Tradition, Orthodox-Rocor, Indiana, etc. - the Mods insist that participants identify themselves with their full and authentic name.  If you don't provide it, you'll be banned.

Why would such identification be seen as especially dangerous on OC.net?
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2009, 03:36:49 AM »

The Admins are identifiable.  But the Mods prefer anonymity?

Yep. We're no fools. We've seen how many crackpots frequent the forum.

Perhaps the moderators on this forum need to do their work a little better. There is another Orthodox forum in cyberland which has for years specified that members use their own name (even if it is their first name only), to divulge their status as layman, cleric or monastic, their religious affiliation (jurisdiction optional, plain "Orthodox" is accepted, other faiths and denominations are listed, including "other" and "undecided"), and country of origin. The first few posts of new members are moderated, then are allowed to post freely, but anyone, newbie or senior member, who engages in conduct unbecoming, is very quickly dealt with. There is none of the rancour, bickering and personal attacking which all too often blights OCNet.

Is it too much to ask the good folks of OCNet to raise their standards? The recent stoush involving Irish Hermit was utterly disgusting and shameful.
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2009, 03:39:39 AM »

I actually see an advantage to that method though. It is a little weird to have someone that is a mod get snippy with you on here. You don't know if they are snippy as a mod or as a "poster." I know that you all use a different color to post as a mod versus a regular poster. But often times you get your "parental tone" in your regular posting then switch to mod mode and warn. I have to say I for one find it confusing.

I can't use my real first name as long as my husband has his security clearance and is deployed and non-members can look at the site. All my internet traffic is constantly monitored for OPSEC violations. One of the disadvantages to having such an unusual first name Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 03:43:00 AM by Quinault » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2009, 03:40:29 AM »

On CAF the mods had an admin handle and a regular posting handle. They didn't post in discussion as mods, they used their regular posting handles to post in discussions. They actually had MORE anonimity that way.

Quite true.  The culture on CAF is one of secrecy.   Much is said about this in the lengthy thread in this Forum by the refugees from CAF.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13287.0.html
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2009, 03:40:48 AM »

The Admins are identifiable.  But the Mods prefer anonymity?

Yep. We're no fools. We've seen how many crackpots frequent the forum.

Perhaps the moderators on this forum need to do their work a little better. There is another Orthodox forum in cyberland which has for years specified that members use their own name (even if it is their first name only), to divulge their status as layman, cleric or monastic, their religious affiliation (jurisdiction optional, plain "Orthodox" is accepted, other faiths and denominations are listed, including "other" and "undecided"), and country of origin.
Well, you know my name is George. You know my jurisdiction. What more do you want.


Is it too much to ask the good folks of OCNet to raise their standards? The recent stoush involving Irish Hermit was utterly disgusting and shameful.
You mean the bit where he publicly made false claims about the Ecumenical Patriarch (whether knowingly or not). Yeah, that was pretty disgusting.
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2009, 03:44:15 AM »

On CAF the mods had an admin handle and a regular posting handle. They didn't post in discussion as mods, they used their regular posting handles to post in discussions. They actually had MORE anonimity that way.
Yep. They all thought they knew the Mods names on CAF, but in fact, they were nom de plumes.
George, you revealed in the thread on CAF that you did not even know of the existence of CAF until the refugees began coming into OC.net.

I can assure you that everybody was aware that the Mods on CAF were not using their true names.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 03:58:33 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2009, 03:47:24 AM »

Goodness gracious, everyone.  This is supposed to be a "Let's make peace" thread, and there's already an argument.  It's almost midnight and tomorrow is Sunday.  Let's go to bed and pray for peace and a new beginning tomorrow.
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2009, 03:48:23 AM »

Goodness gracious, everyone.  This is supposed to be a "Let's make peace" thread, and there's already an argument.  It's almost midnight and tomorrow is Sunday.  Let's go to bed and pray for peace and a new beginning tomorrow.
Well it's already Sunday here and in New Zealand.
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2009, 03:50:32 AM »

Oh.  I can never keep track of these time differences.  Well whatever.   
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2009, 03:50:57 AM »

I think having a way to identify clerics/monastics/Khouria versus laity is an excellent idea. There is a level of respect that must be given to clergy period. It doesn't matter if you disagree or even personally think they are an idiot. People tend to treat people on-line differently than they would in person. And I find the tone some have used with Fr. Ambrose recently rude and uncalled for. Whether you disagree with him or not, the rudeness that I have seen him treated with is not acceptable at all in my opinion. Go back thru your posts and see if you would talk to a priest in person like you have to Fr. Ambrose. I doubt you would no matter how much you disagreed with them. Disagreement is fine, rudeness is not.
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2009, 03:52:54 AM »

Quote
You mean the bit where he publicly made false claims about the Ecumenical Patriarch (whether knowingly or not). Yeah, that was pretty disgusting.

Very good, George, you'll get a gold star. So a forum moderator's questioning a priest's credentials is OK, is it? So sad. So very sad.  Cry
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2009, 03:58:16 AM »

And I find the tone some have used with Fr. Ambrose recently rude and uncalled for. Whether you disagree with him or not, the rudeness that I have seen him treated with is not acceptable at all in my opinion. Go back thru your posts and see if you would talk to a priest in person like you have to Fr. Ambrose. I doubt you would no matter how much you disagreed with them. Disagreement is fine, rudeness is not.


George got into trouble for this, and justifiably so.  He got a colored dot by his name.  It would be nice to give him a fresh start now.   Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2009, 04:01:46 AM »

I think having a way to identify clerics/monastics/Khouria versus laity is an excellent idea. There is a level of respect that must be given to clergy period. It doesn't matter if you disagree or even personally think they are an idiot. People tend to treat people on-line differently than they would in person. And I find the tone some have used with Fr. Ambrose recently rude and uncalled for. Whether you disagree with him or not, the rudeness that I have seen him treated with is not acceptable at all in my opinion. Go back thru your posts and see if you would talk to a priest in person like you have to Fr. Ambrose. I doubt you would no matter how much you disagreed with them. Disagreement is fine, rudeness is not.
Being Clergy or a Presbytera makes no difference to the veracity of one's claims. To appeal to one's status as "proof" that what one says is true and that claims they are false are "unfair" is the fallacy of argumentum ad misericordiam

Very good, George, you'll get a gold star. So a forum moderator's questioning a priest's credentials is OK, is it? So sad. So very sad.  Cry
How dare you? How do you know I'm not a Priest? Actually, how do you know I'm not a Metropolitan? And, if that's the case, does that make any difference to the truth of what I claim?

Well it's already Sunday here and in New Zealand.
I attended Liturgy this morning. I've baked double chocolate chip cookies. I've visited Gwen in the nursing home and now I'm making Pork in Apple Cider and Wholegrain Mustard Cream Sauce with gnocchi for dinner.
That's how I spent my Sunday. Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2009, 04:02:16 AM »

Look, fellas.  Fr. Anastasios intended this thread as an attempt to make peace after the recent hostilities, and already we see the hostilities carrying over into here.  Give it a rest and work to make peace so we don't have to lock this thread.  Okay?
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2009, 04:03:13 AM »

His dot isn't there now. But Fr. Ambrose still has one.

I don't think we should automatically believe someone because they are Clergy. But I do think we should "salute the office" and treat them with a certain level of respect even when we disagree.
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2009, 04:04:15 AM »

Phew, this thread has gone awry. Cry

Fr Anastasios started it as a way of promoting peace.

I replied to him and supported him in his hope for peace.

But then the contrary postings started.

Fr Anastasios is away for Sunday attending to his priestly duties in one of his parishes.

What say we allow this thread to rest peacefully, and when he returns on Monday he will tell us his throughts and what he wants from the Forum.
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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2009, 04:04:47 AM »

His dot isn't there now. But Fr. Ambrose still has one.

Fine.
I'll give myself one now.

 
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2009, 04:05:55 AM »

And if someone uses their status as clergy to back up a claim that is false that doesn't mean we should automatically drop all pretense of respect. You wouldn't do that in school I imagine Smiley I know I tried to do that to teachers when I was in school and learned my lesson quickly about how acceptable that behavior is Cheesy
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2009, 04:07:08 AM »

And if someone uses their status as clergy to back up a claim that is false that doesn't mean we should automatically drop all pretense of respect.
I'm not very good at pretence.
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« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2009, 04:08:11 AM »

Look, fellas.  Fr. Anastasios intended this thread as an attempt to make peace after the recent hostilities, and already we see the hostilities carrying over into here.  Give it a rest and work to make peace so we don't have to lock this thread.  Okay?
That goes for you ladies, too.
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« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2009, 04:09:53 AM »

Phew, this thread has gone awry. Cry

Fr Anastasios started it as a way of promoting peace.

I replied to him and supported him in his hope for peace.

But then the contrary postings started.

Fr Anastasios is away for Sunday attending to his priestly duties in one of his parishes.

What say we allow this thread to rest peacefully, and when he returns on Monday he will tell us his throughts and what he wants from the Forum.

Look, fellas.  Fr. Anastasios intended this thread as an attempt to make peace after the recent hostilities, and already we see the hostilities carrying over into here.  Give it a rest and work to make peace so we don't have to lock this thread.  Okay?
That goes for you ladies, too.

I agree. If I have caused trouble I apologize. Forgiveness Vespers is on the horizon. I often wish we could get everyone together online to have a forgiveness Vespers. It is so freeing to forgive and be forgiven.
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« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2009, 04:18:59 AM »

Well, you know my name is George. You know my jurisdiction. What more do you want.


Do you like chocolate chip cookies?  Do Greeks eat gnocchi?  Grin
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« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2009, 04:19:39 AM »

I agree. If I have caused trouble I apologize. Forgiveness Vespers is on the horizon. I often wish we could get everyone together online to have a forgiveness Vespers. It is so freeing to forgive and be forgiven.

We have a thread every year for the mutual asking of forgiveness.
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« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2009, 04:21:25 AM »

And if someone uses their status as clergy to back up a claim that is false that doesn't mean we should automatically drop all pretense of respect.
I'm not very good at pretence.

Well, now I accept your claim to Ozzie-ness.  Pretence is one of the things that Ozzies are not good at.   Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2009, 04:25:43 AM »

I agree. If I have caused trouble I apologize. Forgiveness Vespers is on the horizon. I often wish we could get everyone together online to have a forgiveness Vespers. It is so freeing to forgive and be forgiven.

We have a thread every year for the mutual asking of forgiveness.


But we can't see each other and touch each other. Forgiveness is different in person.
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« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2009, 04:26:06 AM »

I don't think we should automatically believe someone because they are Clergy. But I do think we should "salute the office" and treat them with a certain level of respect even when we disagree.

I agree.  The question is, how does this work out in a discussion forum?  George may have crossed the line, but where is the line in a place where lively debate is supposed to happen?  I guess I don't know the answer myself.  There are rules about how to treat clergy in our Churches, but how do they work out in real life?

It's like my friend who hates her job.  She works for her relatives and hates it.  So one day she quit.  Her relatives wanted her to come back, because she has some very specialized skills that are not easy to replace.  So her relatives called my priest to ask him to order her to go back to work.

Now in OO Churches, you're supposed to obey your spiritual father.  That's a really serious thing.  I don't know how it is in the EO Church, but in the OO Church you got to obey your spiritual father.  Unless he asks you to do something really obviously bad, like rob a bank or kill someone.  But that wasn't the case here.  The relatives just wanted my priest to tell my friend to go back to work.  

Fortunately, my priest refused to use his authority in that way.  Instead he called my friend to get her version of the story, then called back and forth between her and her relatives until a deal was reached.  I think the deal was that she went back to work, but got something like a fifteen percent raise and she only works four days a week now.  Or something like that.  So now she still hates her job, but she can't leave it because she can't find a place that will pay her that much money for working four days a week.  

Anyway, what if my priest had actually used his authority to order my friend to just go back to work?  Would it have been a sin for her to refuse?  Where do you draw the line?

Sorry for rambling on.  It's late and I probably don't know what I am typing.  I guess I just think we need to figure out how laypersons and priests should dialogue with each other on a discussion forum where lively debate is the norm.  I'm not saying we should insult priests.  That's just wrong.  However, I don't feel comfortable with a situation where we can't strongly disagree with them either.  We just need to find that balance.
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« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2009, 04:27:11 AM »

Do you like chocolate chip cookies?  Do Greeks eat gnocchi?  Grin
Yes and yes.
I am skiing in New Zealand this winter, so I'll come over and make you some. Actually, on second thought, may be I'd better not. Given your heart condition, I'm sure people will think I'm trying to bump you off with the fat content!

Here's the recipes:


Totally Chocolate Chocolate Chip Cookies

125gm dark chocolate (melted)
125gm butter
75gm brown sugar
160 gm flour (increased from her original 150gm)
30 gm cocoa
1 teaspoon baking soda
1 egg
1 teaspoon vanilla essence/extract
200 gm chocolate chip
handful of crushed walnuts

1. Cream the butter and sugar. ( I used the Magimix for this, take note, GFAB)
2. Pour in the melted chocolate, (cooled), and pulse until mixed
3. Add the egg and essence. Pulse again
4. Pulse in the sifted dry ingredients. At this point you should get a cohesive cookie dough that looks like very hard frozen dark chocolate ice cream.
5. Pulse in the nuts and choc chips.
6. Scoop out (using an ice cream scoop) levelled spoons of dough, onto a baking tray.
7. Bake at 180C for 18-20 minutes.


Mustard pork chops
Serves 2

I love the old French favorites, the sorts that evoke not the supercilious waiter and theatrically removed silvered dome of the big-name restaurants, but rather the small-town bistro, all warm wood and rough red wine.

This is possibly the easiest route to a proper, filling, and yet strangely delicate dinner. The pork is cooked for just enough time to take away pinkness but ensure tenderness within, and gloriously scorched without. The mustard, cider, and cream add comfort and piquancy. To soak up the gorgeous juices, and to serve as a fantastically quick potato substitute, I serve up gnocchi alongside. You could always add a little lemony fennel sliced thinly, or a green salad if you’re in the mood.

INGREDIENTS

• 2 pork chops, about 1 lb. total weight
• 2 teaspoons garlic oil
• 1/2 cup hard cider
• 1 tablespoon whole-grain mustard
• ⅓ cup heavy cream

DIRECTIONS

Cut the fat off the chops, and then bash them briefly but brutally with a rolling pin between two pieces of plastic wrap to make them thinner.

Heat the oil in a pan, and then cook the chops over a moderately high heat for about 5 minutes per side. Remove them to a warmed plate.

Pour the cider into the pan, still over the heat, to deglaze the pan. Let it bubble away for a minute or so, then add the mustard and stir the cream.

Let the sauce continue cooking for a few minutes before pouring over each plated pork chop.  If you’re having gnocchi with, make sure you turn them in the pan to absorb any spare juices before adding them to your plates.
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« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2009, 04:28:50 AM »

I don't think we should automatically believe someone because they are Clergy. But I do think we should "salute the office" and treat them with a certain level of respect even when we disagree.

I agree.  The question is, how does this work out in a discussion forum?  George may have crossed the line, but where is the line in a place where lively debate is supposed to happen?  I guess I don't know the answer myself.  There are rules about how to treat clergy in our Churches, but how do they work out in real life?

It's like my friend who hates her job.  She works for her relatives and hates it.  So one day she quit.  Her relatives wanted her to come back, because she has some very specialized skills that are not easy to replace.  So her relatives called my priest to ask him to order her to go back to work.

Now in OO Churches, you're supposed to obey your spiritual father.  That's a really serious thing.  I don't know how it is in the EO Church, but in the OO Church you got to obey your spiritual father.  Unless he asks you to do something really obviously bad, like rob a bank or kill someone.  But that wasn't the case here.  The relatives just wanted my priest to tell my friend to go back to work. 

Fortunately, my priest refused to use his authority in that way.  Instead he called my friend to get her version of the story, then called back and forth between her and her relatives until a deal was reached.  I think the deal was that she went back to work, but got something like a fifteen percent raise and she only works four days a week now.  Or something like that.  So now she still hates her job, but she can't leave it because she can't find a place that will pay her that much money for working four days a week. 

Anyway, what if my priest had actually used his authority to order my friend to just go back to work?  Would it have been a sin for her to refuse?  Where do you draw the line?

Sorry for rambling on.  It's late and I probably don't know what I am typing.  I guess I just think we need to figure out how laypersons and priests should dialogue with each other on a discussion forum where lively debate is the norm.  I'm not saying we should insult priests.  That's just wrong.  However, I don't feel comfortable with a situation where we can't strongly disagree with them either.  We just need to find that balance.

I absolutely know where you are coming from Salpy.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 04:29:45 AM by Quinault » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2009, 08:29:31 AM »

What could be the problem of using a REAL name. For one thing, it will make people more accountable for the things that are written. If you know you might possibly meet your Orthodox Brother in person, it might make one think about being charitable. I for one have NO problem with using my real name. 

It seems to me that if you are not posting addresses, etc. Internet security isn't a problem.
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« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2009, 10:09:40 AM »

What could be the problem of using a REAL name.  It seems to me that if you are not posting addresses, etc. Internet security isn't a problem.
I strongly prefer not using my real name, and I have absolutely no problem with admins, mods, or anyone else using a "forum name", if they desire.

On another forum once, a fellow poster was using her real name, as was I.  In one of her posts, she made a comment to which I thought "TMI".  Out of curiosity, I pieced together scattered info from other posts in the forum, and within a few minutes on the web was able to find her home address, age, telephone number, etc.  It scared me.  I quit using my real name.
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« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2009, 10:10:56 AM »

I was always curious how much people really use the PM method to resolve their debates.  I would think that if we pushed this more, at least people's arguments would not be public, and they can handle things between themselves like adults.  If you want a mediator, maybe we could set up something like that. 

Just some thoughts. 
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What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2009, 12:27:54 PM »

I can't use my real name because it is so very easy to find people based on posting history. My first name is so unusual in the US that if I used it on a forum I would be found rather quickly. I live in a large city, but I doubt there are more than a handful (if that) of other people with my first name here. As long as my husband's security clearance is active and he is in the military I simply can't use my real name online. I could go by my middle name, but even that would be pushing it. Try googling your first and last name and city, you would be surprised to know that your info already could be online. Thus far even with my unusual name I am not on the first few pages of a google search of my name. (My amazon profile for reviews  pops up but that doesn't list my address).
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 12:34:56 PM by Quinault » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2009, 04:12:39 PM »

Hint: When I wrote that post last night, I was not hoping to rehash the past Smiley

Given that I need to do some forum maintenance, I think I will just do that in the middle of the day instead of waiting until night. Give everyone some extra time to do other stuff.
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« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2009, 11:44:24 AM »

Dear Forum Members,

The purpose of this peace thread was quite simply to make peace, not to rehash the same controversy from previous threads. My post served as a model wherein I asked for forgiveness for my shortcomings in dealing with recent situations and did not attempt to redress anything in specific but rather attempted to inspire mutual forgiveness and forgetting of past wrongs without precondition (I had expected a response like the Father of the Prodigal Son who did not ask for redress but was overjoyed at the return of his son).

Given that that did not happen, and a few additional points were brought up, I will in my capacity as founder and owner of this site make a few comments.

1) I appreciate Fr Ambrose (Irish Hermit)’s positive comments regarding our forum. However, I believe that the proposal for a policy amendment and return to specifics of his case diverted the thread and that this was ill advised.  I will say no more as Fr Ambrose and I have agreed to a one-on-one discussion to help address his personal case.

2) I disagree with George (Ozgeorge)’s assessment about personalities. While I agree that personalities “should not” be involved, I believe they are, and that it has become far more than an issue of two posters disagreeing over sources.  The way that various posters have responded has had a lot to do with the results. The assertion about typed messages revealing personalities is an interesting question for discussion which I think would make an interesting thread at a later date when the dust settles, though.

3) Moderatorial Anonymity and Poster Anonymity in general. Contrary to the opinions expressed by some posters, having one’s real name floating around a message board (the posts of which are indexed by various search engines and marketing firms) is not a good idea and does post a security issue for many people. I work in the Information Technology world. It is not a good idea to post one’s full name on a board such as this.  Fraudsters can get a good feel for someone from a message board and then use that information.  This is not to say that it is dangerous to post as oneself, but rather that there are associated risks that each person much determine for him or herself.  As such, I will not and will never ask posters to identify themselves publicly.  First name and last initial is really not that much more secure than full name.  The Orthodox world is a small world and anyone spending enough time on message boards can figure things out.  I have been tracked down by people before various times and I’m not willing to expose moderators to this against their will.

Moderators are chosen from among the pool of known and relatively long-standing participants, and are usually known to the Administrators.  If they are not, the Administrators get to know them and their personal details.  They are known to us, and if there is some concern about a moderator it can be expressed to the global moderator above the moderator, or if the concern is about a global moderator, it can be expressed to Fr Chris, the forum administrator.  If he is unavailable, a final possibility is to contact me.

As far as other Orthodox lists requiring full identification, that may be their policy, but it is not one I think well-advised for the above reasons.

4) I would like to address LBK’s statement about moderators: our moderators do their work to the best of their ability. We are all human beings with faults, and the moderators may not always live up to their potential, but they do give it their all.  I know the site you mention and it has never been a site I personally find very engaging or something I want to participate in regularly. OCnet, however, has led me to a lot of great friendships (including in person) and contacts all around the world. OCnet to me is a family, and sometimes families have interfamilial rivalries.  OCnet to me is about halfway between the seriousness of a forum such as the one you mention (which is good for very intellectual discussion) and a forum such as TAW which is to me a laid-back highly informal place.  Each forum has its own personalities and not all forums may be suited for all people.

Other forums may immediately act to quell problems but I find that in such situations there are usually people with hurt feelings that go unexpressed.  We have therefore often let disputes carry on for at least some time in public, even when they get rough, rather then just start banning or muting people without a chance to express themselves. Speaking personally, I have reopened threads where I know someone is going to criticize my decision rather than let that person feel that their voice is unimportant.

Deliberate and outright rudeness should be dealt with faster, and it is something we will try to rectify. Please offer your prayers for this intent.

5) Moderators as posters.  To address Quinault’s concern: a moderator is only acting as a moderator when writing in green as you stated; however, we are aware that vigorous posting in the same thread where moderation then occurs may result in ambiguity, especially in reference to source requests. This policy is being reviewed by the administrators and will be announced in due time.

6) Rehashing the issue of ozgeorge being rude to Irish Hermit: this issue has been dealt with. ozgeorge was given a warning for being rude to Irish Hermit, but the whole reason he was rude to Irish Hermit stemmed from his zeal to defend his patriarch, Patriarch Bartholemew.  The statement of LBK suggesting that it is acceptable on OCnet for moderators to question priests’ credentials ignores the action taken in this regard and constitutes bearing false witness and remembering past wrongs.  The policy of this forum is that all posters--not just priests--will be treated with respect and fairness, including by forum staff.  It is also the policy of this forum that if someone is warned and then serves out their punishment, the warning goes away, and the incident is forgotten as should be standard operating procedure for any Orthodox Christian.

Any further reiterations of ozgeorge being rude to Irish Hermit will simply be deleted by me.  Any claims that this forum supports moderators insulting or questioning the credentials of priests will be considered bearing false witness and punitive action will be taken.  This problem has been addressed numerous times, and it will not be discussed any longer in this public forum.

If the behavior is for some reason repeated, kindly report the post wherein such new behavior occurs, but barring that, this issue is closed for discussion.

To answer Quinault’s point though, warnings expire at a predetermined time.  If ozgeorge’s dot expired, Irish Hermit’s would have soon enough.  There is no unfair standard here: the software handles warning times unless modified manually.

Some final reiterations:

1) This forum recognizes that Fr Ambrose is an Orthodox priest in good standing and does not question his credentials.

2) Being a priest will not be grounds to be exempt from providing sources, especially in cases where a claim is made about an Orthodox patriarch, but the manner of delivery will be examined for future cases.

3) Requests for sources are not attacks on a person’s credibility but stem from a desire to see where the information is coming from and its context.

4) The policy of source gathering and moderators moderating in threads where they are posting will be reviewed and revised.

5) Insulting another poster will not be acceptable.

6) Moderation complaints should be addressed to the superior of the person who is being complained about. We actually do take such reports seriously.

7) Moderators and Administrators are volunteers who often work jobs. Priest volunteers also have parish considerations. If something takes a “long time” to resolve please consider this.

8 ) I am removing both Fr Ambrose and ozgeorge's warnings.

A restatement of this forum’s purpose:

OCnet exists for three reasons: to bring people into the Orthodox Church; to grow Orthodox people’s understanding of their faith; to provide fellowship amongst Orthodox people and non-Orthodox of good will.

Anything that jeopardizes this forum’s ability to meet these goals will be examined very seriously.

This thread will now be closed. Please do not open new threads about this thread. I will close such threads. If you have a genuine concern please address it to me privately and I will engage you in private.

If anyone feels so inclined, I will start a forgiveness thread early this year. Such a thread will only be for apologies and not to seek redress.  We should forget past wrongs.

Finally, any further tit-for-tats will result in me giving the forum additional "breaks" as needed.

Sincerely,

Fr Anastasios
Forum Owner and Co-Administrator
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 11:51:26 AM by Fr. Anastasios » Logged

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