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Author Topic: Source References Requested In Another Post  (Read 621 times) Average Rating: 0
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Orthodoc
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Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« on: February 14, 2009, 12:47:34 PM »

The 'Fatima' thread has been locked which does not allow FR Ambrose to reply with the source references requested.  And, since Father Ambrose has been maligned, insulted, accused of dishonesty, and his priestly vows have been questioned, I think he had the right to reply to the request before the thread was locked.  Apparently this was not done.

I am, therefore opening up a new thread with his replies which he has sent to me in a private email and requesting that you add it to the locked thread before you close it again.  Or that you allow this reply to stay before locking this thread also. You may question or disagree with his reply but a least you have given him the ounce of respect he deserves before locking the thread. It's the least you can do for this humble priest who has heart problems and is upset over the way he has been treated.

==================

Father Ambrose's Private email to me:

 

Fatima - source references
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1.   The words of the Lady of Fatima are easy enough to find on many websites and in hundreds of books on Fatima.  Here they are on an EWTB website:
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/FIRSTSAT.htm

See "The Third Apparition. july 13"


2.   It is easy enough for you to check who Fr Joaquin Alonso so.   He is THE archivist of Fatima and has a 26 volume edition on Fatima to his credit.

Here is the source of what I placed on the Forum:


 Father Joaquin Alonso, probably the top Fatima expert of the 20th Century. Father Alonso, who had many interviews with Sister Lucy, wrote in 1976:

". . . we should affirm that Lucia always thought that the 'conversion' of Russia is not to be limited to the return of the Russian People to the Orthodox Christian religions, rejecting the Marxist atheism of the Soviets, but rather, it refers purely, plainly and simply to the total, integral conversion of Russia to the one true Church of Christ, the Catholic Church." [17] 17. La Verdad Sobre el Sacradoto de Fatima, Fatima sin mitos, Father Joaquin Alonso, (2nd edition, Ejercito Azul, Madrid, 1988) p. 78. English translation by Joseph Cain. Original Spanish reads: ". . . podriamos decit que Lucia ha pensado siempre que "conversion" de Rusia no se entiende solo de un retorno de los pueblos de Rusia a la religion cristiano-ortodoxa, rechazando el afeismo marxista yateo de los, soviets, sino que se refiere pura y Ilanmente a la conversion total e integral du un retorno a la unica y verdadera Iglesia, la catolico-romana."

3.  The quote from Mortalium Animos by Pope Pius XI
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html

See paragraph 11

4.  The quote from On the Ecumenical Movement by Pope Pius XII
http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFECUM.HTM

See Section II, the last paragraph of the section. 

==============

Thank you,

Orthodoc


« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 12:56:18 PM by Orthodoc » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 01:13:34 PM »

I'm locking this thread - not as a punitive measure, or a censorial measure, but because it should stand alone at the moment fulfilling the request for sources from the old thread.

On a personal note: It saddens me to see the back-and-forth on these issues.  On the one hand, all clergy are to be respected as ministers of Christ performing His will on this earth - by virtue of their office.  On the other hand, in the course of conversation, one cannot assume that anything or everything said by a deacon, priest, bishop, or monk is correct or authoritative; the authority of the priest is often shined forth through his example and track-record.

I hope that those questioning the sources are not questioning the man; it seems so far that they are not.  But we should be ever vigilant to avoid personal attack as much as possible, saving judgment for Christ alone.  I also hope that those who are questioned about their sources do not interpret such questions as an attack on their person - far from it.

Finally, it seems to me that the points brought up about Fr. Ambrose's priesthood being "unproven," while they may be interpreted as an attack, was not intended to be so, IMO - rather, just as Fr. Chris and Fr. Anastasios were also brought up in the same conversation, it was merely making a point: just because someone is or claims to be a priest, doesn't make everything they say correct.  If we are respectful in our questioning, and open in our interpretation, then we can guard ourselves from both false information and, more importantly, destructive comments and feelings towards one another.

I ask forgiveness from any that I have offended in the course of dialogue on this site; while it may not be a humble request (I'm still working on that in my life), it is sincere.

- Cleveland, Global Moderator
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 01:15:25 PM by cleveland » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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