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Author Topic: Fatima Once Again  (Read 11711 times) Average Rating: 0
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2009, 09:52:47 PM »


30 Days is one of Italy's best Catholic magazines....

Really?  I've never read it, though it looks kind of militant to me.  I wonder what some of our Catholic posters think.

You don't follow the European papers?

Here is its homepage in the Net
http://www.30giorni.it/it/default.asp

At the top you can choose various language editions.
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« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2009, 09:53:18 PM »

Dear Father,

There we have it John Paul II who thought himself to be the 'Successor of Christ' leading the march.

How many pedophiles are in the line? Is not written a tree is known by it's fruit.

What they should do is simply return to the Orthodox faith, get rid of the septicemic plague of the heresies of the papacy, let the Priests get married and have children so the children can grow up as normal minded people.

I think it is abnormal and not right to follow a 'Successor of Christ' into Orthodox Russia. I also think it is abnormal to have one scandal after another in the RC place
in the name of discipline that hurts people, especially children.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Please keep on topic.  The sex abuse scandal within the Roman Catholic Church has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum, and I am sure you can dig up an old thread if you are not done beating the dead horse yet.  When similar abuses happen within Orthodoxy we mourn and pray, we do not use such a condescending tone since it is insulting to the victims.  Again, please stick to the topic at hand and please avoid such underhanded discussion "techniques".  Do not let it occur again.

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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2009, 09:54:13 PM »


30 Days is one of Italy's best Catholic magazines....

Really?  I've never read it, though it looks kind of militant to me.  I wonder what some of our Catholic posters think.

You don't follow the European papers?

Here is its homepage in the Net
http://www.30giorni.it/it/default.asp

At the top you can choose various language editions.

Which issue did the page you posted come from?
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« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2009, 10:02:21 PM »

Which issue did the page you posted come from?

Information provided in message 41.
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« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2009, 10:09:11 PM »

What a shame. The archives only go back to 2003.
Guess we just have your word for it (again).
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« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2009, 10:22:37 PM »

What a shame. The archives only go back to 2003.
Guess we just have your word for it (again).

George, will you please stop trying to imply that I am a liar at every opportunity you get. One day you will have to answer for every idle word before the Saviour, you know.


Surely you are able to go to the library and consult the particular edition if you are so interested.   Not everything can be found on the Internet.
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« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2009, 10:33:30 PM »

Goodness me. Who said you were a liar?
Simple statement of fact: at this point we only have your word for it.
Calm down.
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« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2009, 10:39:46 PM »

What a shame. The archives only go back to 2003.
Guess we just have your word for it (again).

George, will you please stop trying to imply that I am a liar at every opportunity you get. One day you will have to answer for every idle word before the Saviour, you know.

Father bless,

I have to ask.  Has ozgeorge actually called you a liar explicitly, or are you just expressing your perception that he called you a liar?
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« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2009, 10:44:48 PM »

Dear Nebelpfade,

I don't see it as part of underhanded "techniques" at all. I remember not so long ago speaking with a Russian Orthodox Bishop who was very concerned about the Papal missionaries going to Russia and Ukraine. As a matter of fact
he sent some of the headline RC sex scandal American papers over there so
a strong movement against allowing them in might be embraced, thank God it was. Basically he advised them not to let the RC missionaries in. He loves kids.

One of the problems is that people these days are comfortable thinking that being polite no matter what is important. Most parents that love children are against behavior that is too commonly seen from the papal place.

I think that it is not right to say that part of praying and mourning excludes expressing support for victims by not bringing up how wrong the abusers are because they are power people. That is what the papacy is about, pedophiles also like exercise power. People get hurt in underhanded ways then.

Dear Pravoslavbob,

Nice to see you as well. I really don't think I'm being unfair for it much worse situation than it should be.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin



« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 10:50:25 PM by MatthewPanchisin » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2009, 10:52:32 PM »

I do like to observe these spats between Orthodox members...
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« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2009, 10:58:03 PM »

Dear Peter the Aleut,

Do keep in mind that Father Ambrose has heard many confessions from dudes and Mesdames in his many years of Priestly life and his perception no doubt might do well to call others to their perceptions if they can listen.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

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« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2009, 11:00:07 PM »

What a shame. The archives only go back to 2003.
Guess we just have your word for it (again).

George, will you please stop trying to imply that I am a liar at every opportunity you get. One day you will have to answer for every idle word before the Saviour, you know.

Father bless,

I have to ask.  Has ozgeorge actually called you a liar explicitly, or are you just expressing your perception that he called you a liar?

George has called me a liar four times explicitly in recent days and if he is the Moderator who composed my Warning he has also called me a liar in the Warning by stating that I have knowingly presented false information to the Forum.  I asked for this to be corrected several days ago and still hope that it will be.  It is very distressing that a moderatorial statement which bears false witness against a priest is displayed on OC.net, would you not agree?   Those chosen as Moderators have a serious responsibilty and ought to maintain a high level of probity.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19559.msg289923.html#msg289923

IN THE NAME AND BY THE AUTHORITY OF THE MODERATORS OF OC.NET:

The duly organized, empanelled, and sworn Grand Jury of OC.net, presents in the Moderators Forum of OC.net, that in the Faith Issues Forum of OC.net, Irish Hermit, hereinafter styled Defendant, on or about the 6th Day of February, 2008, did then and there claim that the Ecumenical Patriarch did commemorate the Pope of Rome as an Orthodox Hierarch and in support thereof did show a link to a video documenting said event, and said link did not show a video of any type, and furthermore that defendant's claim was knowingly and patently false, with actual video of said event being publicly available and not containing any commemoration of the Pope of Rome,

AGAINST THE PEACE AND DIGNITY OF THE FORUM.
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« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2009, 11:01:58 PM »

Dear Jakub,

Sometimes they can be helpful.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

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« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2009, 11:02:48 PM »

I do like to observe these spats between Orthodox members...
Well, at least there's no such thing as an Orthodox paedophile (apparently).
They only exist in the Catholic Church (apparently).
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« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2009, 11:11:49 PM »

That's right ozgeorge I'm an idiot even though you are not calling me one.
What does that apparently mean to you?

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 11:12:41 PM by MatthewPanchisin » Logged
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« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2009, 11:17:10 PM »

What a shame. The archives only go back to 2003.
Guess we just have your word for it (again).

George, will you please stop trying to imply that I am a liar at every opportunity you get. One day you will have to answer for every idle word before the Saviour, you know.

Father bless,

I have to ask.  Has ozgeorge actually called you a liar explicitly, or are you just expressing your perception that he called you a liar?

George has called me a liar four times explicitly in recent days and if he is the Moderator who composed my Warning he has also called me a liar in the Warning by stating that I have knowingly presented false information to the Forum.  I asked for this to be corrected several days ago and still hope that it will be.  It is very distressing that a moderatorial statement which bears false witness against a priest is displayed on OC.net, would you not agree?   Those chosen as Moderators have a serious responsibilty and ought to maintain a high level of probity.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19559.msg289923.html#msg289923

IN THE NAME AND BY THE AUTHORITY OF THE MODERATORS OF OC.NET:

The duly organized, empanelled, and sworn Grand Jury of OC.net, presents in the Moderators Forum of OC.net, that in the Faith Issues Forum of OC.net, Irish Hermit, hereinafter styled Defendant, on or about the 6th Day of February, 2008, did then and there claim that the Ecumenical Patriarch did commemorate the Pope of Rome as an Orthodox Hierarch and in support thereof did show a link to a video documenting said event, and said link did not show a video of any type, and furthermore that defendant's claim was knowingly and patently false, with actual video of said event being publicly available and not containing any commemoration of the Pope of Rome,

AGAINST THE PEACE AND DIGNITY OF THE FORUM.

A hint for you, Irish HermitOzgeorge didn't write that warning.  The warning was actually a team effort based on our common understanding that your lies have been publicly substantiated.  Now, are you going to go through the proper channels for complaining about the moderation here?  Another hint:  what you just did to complain publicly about it ain't it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 11:33:39 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2009, 11:22:05 PM »

That's right ozgeorge I'm an idiot even though you are not calling me one.
Are you?
I didn't think you were.

What does that apparently mean to you?
That something's upset you?
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« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2009, 11:25:27 PM »

While you guys sort this out let me quickly say, evil and wickedness know no boundaries...

Time in, commence the family feud...

Wish Richard Dawson was here...
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« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2009, 11:27:40 PM »

While you guys sort this out let me quickly say, evil and wickedness know no boundaries...
On the contrary, they do have boundaries (apparently). They are bounded by the edges of the Catholic Church. Haven't you been reading this thread?
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« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2009, 11:28:24 PM »

While you guys sort this out let me quickly say, evil and wickedness know no boundaries...

Time in, commence the family feud...

Wish Richard Dawson was here...
Notice that we just celebrated the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee, which means we are now into the season of the Lenten Triodion.  The dreaded Purple Demons have come out to play. Tongue
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« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2009, 11:29:40 PM »

What a shame. The archives only go back to 2003.
Guess we just have your word for it (again).

George, will you please stop trying to imply that I am a liar at every opportunity you get. One day you will have to answer for every idle word before the Saviour, you know.

Father bless,

I have to ask.  Has ozgeorge actually called you a liar explicitly, or are you just expressing your perception that he called you a liar?

George has called me a liar four times explicitly in recent days and if he is the Moderator who composed my Warning he has also called me a liar in the Warning by stating that I have knowingly presented false information to the Forum.  I asked for this to be corrected several days ago and still hope that it will be.  It is very distressing that a moderatorial statement which bears false witness against a priest is displayed on OC.net, would you not agree?   Those chosen as Moderators have a serious responsibilty and ought to maintain a high level of probity.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19559.msg289923.html#msg289923

IN THE NAME AND BY THE AUTHORITY OF THE MODERATORS OF OC.NET:

The duly organized, empanelled, and sworn Grand Jury of OC.net, presents in the Moderators Forum of OC.net, that in the Faith Issues Forum of OC.net, Irish Hermit, hereinafter styled Defendant, on or about the 6th Day of February, 2008, did then and there claim that the Ecumenical Patriarch did commemorate the Pope of Rome as an Orthodox Hierarch and in support thereof did show a link to a video documenting said event, and said link did not show a video of any type, and furthermore that defendant's claim was knowingly and patently false, with actual video of said event being publicly available and not containing any commemoration of the Pope of Rome,

AGAINST THE PEACE AND DIGNITY OF THE FORUM.



Im with you in this Fr. Ambrose you have my support....it's getting to a point that everything has to be politically correct just to be disscussed....just because i don't care for the vatican the pope and reunification it doesn't mean i hate them...as im accused of and warned
There own pope declared that the smoke of Satan has entered there church...so those  apparitions can be a product of it....
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« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2009, 11:31:16 PM »

Im with you in this Fr. Ambrose you have my support....it's getting to a point that everything has to be politically correct just to be disscussed....just because i don't care for the vatican the pope and reunification it doesn't mean i hate them...as im accused of and warned
There own pope declared that the smoke of Satan has entered there church...so those a apparitions are a product of it....
Are you saying that the apparitions at Fatima were apparitions of demons?
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« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2009, 11:38:52 PM »

George:

I was discussing this thread with my Priest, Fr. John Whiteford, and he certainly agrees that whatever appeared was not of God.
In the interest of decorum, and in the spirit of not insulting our RC guest, let me know, and I will PM you privately more info on what he said. Lips Sealed
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« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2009, 11:40:54 PM »

Dear ozgeorge,

That's what the Orthodox monks say, what do you think?

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
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« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2009, 11:42:07 PM »

I am locking this thread for a few minutes while I sort through the posts.  Stand by.

-- Nebelpfade
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« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2009, 11:46:31 PM »

Whatever anyone thinks of Fatima, there is nothing worse than ingratitude.
For decades the Roman Catholics prayed for the freedom of our Faith in Russia.
Whatever you think of the Vatican and Roman Catholics, Pope Pius XI ordered all the faithful of his Church to pray the Leonine Prayers after every low Mass "to permit tranquillity and freedom to pro­fess the faith to be restored to the afflicted people of Russia." Thanks be to God, Who hears all prayers from sincere hearts, their prayers and ours were answered.
What have we done with this God-given freedom? Have we established the Unity of the Orthodox Church? Have we borne witness to the treasures of our Faith? No. Instead, we go on the Internet and write viscous things about one another's jurisdictions, clinging to ideas of "National Churches" as though we were Chrisimated into nations and ethnicities rather than the Church, thinking our ethnicity is holier than other ethnicities.
I tell you this: If we don't sort ourselves out soon, God will take the treasure of the Orthodox Church away from us and give it to a people who deserve it.
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« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2009, 12:13:49 AM »

 Satan didn't just enter the catholic church as smoke as the pope proclaimed at that time..he enter it fully at the time of the separation [schism],,,since then it  plotted. schemed,either to absorb or destroy holy Orthodoxy..if it wasn't for Islam. where the orthodox church had a better chance for survival and existence and protection..Rome would of wiped us out .....
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« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2009, 12:13:58 AM »

In the interest of decorum, and in the spirit of not insulting our RC guest, let me know, and I will PM you privately more info on what he said. Lips Sealed
No thank you. I already know (though I would say it was plani- that is prelest- rather than a "demonic apparition").
The only thing I wanted to hear from anyone in this thread about it was exactly what you said here:
In the interest of decorum, and in the spirit of not insulting our RC guest
Thank you for your example of charity.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 12:14:36 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2009, 12:17:56 AM »

if it wasn't for Islam. where the orthodox church had a better chance for survival and existence..Rome would of wiped us out .....
Where is your faith? Is it in Islam?
Our Lord promised that even the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Do you trust Him or do you trust Islam to protect the Church?
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« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2009, 12:22:29 AM »

i believe God allowed islam to protect us...From our own so called fellow christians............
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« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2009, 12:23:46 AM »

if it wasn't for Islam. where the orthodox church had a better chance for survival and existence..Rome would of wiped us out .....
Where is your faith? Is it in Islam?
Our Lord promised that even the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Do you trust Him or do you trust Islam to protect the Church?
I don't trust the Vatican.
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« Reply #76 on: February 13, 2009, 12:26:01 AM »

Dear ozgeorge,

Do you think you have the treasure of Orthodoxy?

The Orthodox Church Fathers don't see things the way you do. The Orthodox Priesthood is seen as a high office, heavenly, angelic.

"For the priestly office is indeed discharged on earth, but it ranks amongst the heavenly ordinances; and very naturally so, for neither man, nor angel, nor archangel, nor any other created power, but the Paraclete Himself instituted this vocation, and persuaded men while still abiding in the flesh to represent the ministry of angels." "On the Priesthood." St John Chrysostom, N&PNF, First Series, Volume IX. p. 46.

The articulated threat that God will take the treasure of the Orthodox Church away from us and give it to a people who deserve it, does not seem to me to represent the spirit of traditional Orthodox understandings.

Theologically God loves mankind, our Orthodox Priest's will not abandon us, for it is written where your heart is there will your treasure be. In my life time I have seen some go through hell for other people and not abondon the flock and even those that are not of their flocks.

Even under the heal of the Godless communist when many Orthodox Churches had been destroyed it was ultimately the Orthodox Priests that kept things together. They bring the Eucharist through the Royal doors to us even though we don't deserve it.

It is a well known fact among the Russian Orthodox that Rome has always wanted Russia to put her under the papacy, to remove those pious hearted Russians from the Orthodox faith. Indeed Russian Orthodox Bishops to this very day have lost sleep and have been very concerned about the activities of the Protestants and the RC's.

After reading several of your post, I guess what I'm trying to convey to you is that there are older people that have been through a lot in life and may be much wiser than us.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
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« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2009, 12:29:51 AM »

It is a well known fact among the Russian Orthodox that Rome has always wanted Russia to put her under the papacy, to remove those pious hearted Russians from the Orthodox faith.
No. It isn't a "well known fact" that the that Rome wanted the "pious hearted Russians" (as opposed to those impious Arabs, Greeks, Australians, Americans, Asians etc). It is not a "well known fact" at all. It is simply something you personally believe to be true.
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« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2009, 12:33:11 AM »

if it wasn't for Islam. where the orthodox church had a better chance for survival and existence..Rome would of wiped us out .....
Where is your faith? Is it in Islam?
Our Lord promised that even the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Do you trust Him or do you trust Islam to protect the Church?
I don't trust the Vatican.
I trust Christ.
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« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2009, 12:35:33 AM »

if it wasn't for Islam. where the orthodox church had a better chance for survival and existence..Rome would of wiped us out .....
Where is your faith? Is it in Islam?
Our Lord promised that even the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Do you trust Him or do you trust Islam to protect the Church?
I don't trust the Vatican.


Neither do I, but nevertheless the situation is in God's hands. His will, and not ours be done.
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« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2009, 12:38:41 AM »

This section has recently erupted in a series of shameful displays and the moderation team has been bombarded with not only reported posts but private messages from a variety of posters, the vast majority being Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.  These members have expressed their deep concern over the content that appeared lately in the Orthodox-Roman Catholic section, as well as in certain other sections.  These members are Greeks, Russians, Americans, converts, cradle Orthodox, etc. and they have all said that they find that not only do such posts hurt the reputation of this site, but that of Orthodoxy as a whole.  This section is meant for civil debate and discussion concerning the similarities and differences within Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.  That means this section also functions as a second “convert” forum, in which members from a Roman Catholic background (whether Latin or Eastern rite) will read through to find answers to their questions.  We are supposed to be welcoming to these people, whether they are members, lurkers or guests.  You will not lead people to the Truth of Orthodoxy through malice filled posts, through the consistent use of straw-men nor through petty squabbles.  The internet is a powerful tool to introduce people to Orthodoxy, and though nothing will substitute the personal relationship between an inquirer and his/her Priest, too often do we have to remind people that Netodox does not equal Orthodox due to the nature of various posts.  Discussions get heated and people get passionate; this is natural, but we often have to step back and remember the audience we are playing to.  If a Roman Catholic, or Protestant, or Atheist friend were to approach you with questions, how would choose to address them and their concerns?  It is through love that you will lead these people to Christ’s Church, though an understanding of their beliefs, and often, through a gentle hand in “correcting” and guiding them. 

Now, to more specific concerns... 

Firstly, this forum is not becoming ‘politically correct’ to the point of censorship like certain members like to openly.  We try our best to maintain a welcoming environment at this forum for members of different faiths and Churches; it is no different than making this forum welcoming to all genders and all races.  The moderators prefer to take a light touch when it comes to moderation, to allow the freedom of speech and expression, but basic tact and freedom of expression do not have to be mutually exclusive!  We have been receiving countless complaints about the language and tone of certain posts.  The moderating team as a whole share the concerns with the forum members filing these reports and, as a team, we choose the best course of action.  Warnings, Post Moderations, Mutings, etc. occur after a period of discussion, unless the situation warrants a speedy correction.  There are Private, unmoderated forums in addition to the moderated forums.  If you believe your point of view is being so squelched due to the moderated nature of these forums, take them to the unmoderated forums.

Secondly, please provide proper sources and citations when formulating a response.  Gossip and hearsay do little for a discussion and create a situation in which no one can really respond, since it can be difficult to research pure speculation.  If something is solely your opinion and you have absolutely no academic grounds for it, just state so.  It will prevent drawn out exchanges between posters requesting sources and will prevent other misunderstandings.

Finally, do not air your dirty laundry over the public forum.  If you have a concern, go through the proper channels.  If you have a comment or complaint about a post or poster in this section, contact me privately.  If you have a complaint about my posts or decisions as a moderator, then ozgeorge is the global moderator overseeing this section too.  If you have a problem with a global mod, then take it one of the two administrators that focus on the forum content (both of them being ordained Priests).  Too much of this has happened lately and it needs to stop!  There is an unhealthy martyr complex appearing from some posters, and other posters appear to be wrapped up in a cult of personality of sorts.  We have a great moderator staff on this site, which I am proud and honoured to be a member of, and a great administrative staff... contact them when you have a problem. 

This turned out to be somewhat lengthy, but it applies universally to this forum, and not just this section which I look after.  The moderators are proud of their sections and we are proud of our members, but unfortunately, sometimes we do shake our heads at the behaviour we witness.  Therefore I am making this appeal, especially in light of the time we are entering on the Liturgical calendar, to all members, the Church has always been communal and welcoming, try not to do anything that will harm your soul, avoid situations where you will harm the soul of another, and lastly, provide an atmosphere to those who are not Orthodox that will enrich and enlighten their souls.  The moderating staff has and will continue to intervene in such situations where we believe more harm is being done, then good.

Thank you all.

Yours in Christ,
Nebelpfade


P.S.:  Now let us try and steer this thread back on track, and enter into a healthy discussion/debate.  Otherwise, it will likely end up locked within the next few days as it continues to spiral.
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« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2009, 12:39:20 AM »

if it wasn't for Islam. where the orthodox church had a better chance for survival and existence..Rome would of wiped us out .....
Where is your faith? Is it in Islam?
Our Lord promised that even the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Do you trust Him or do you trust Islam to protect the Church?
I don't trust the Vatican.


Neither do I, but nevertheless the situation is in God's hands. His will, and not ours be done.
Amen!
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« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2009, 12:53:39 AM »

How come I don't get an Amen? I said practically the same thing!
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« Reply #83 on: February 13, 2009, 12:57:27 AM »

How come I don't get an Amen? I said practically the same thing!
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« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2009, 12:59:26 AM »

How come I don't get an Amen? I said practically the same thing!
I'll do you one better:ἀμὴν!
LOL! Cheesy
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« Reply #85 on: February 13, 2009, 01:17:40 AM »

It is a well known fact among the Russian Orthodox that Rome has always wanted Russia to put her under the papacy, to remove those pious hearted Russians from the Orthodox faith.
No. It isn't a "well known fact" that the that Rome wanted the "pious hearted Russians" (as opposed to those impious Arabs, Greeks, Australians, Americans, Asians etc). It is not a "well known fact" at all. It is simply something you personally believe to be true.

This is one of the most confusing responses that I have read of late on OC.net. Even a skimming of history would show MatthewPanchisin's personal view to be coincident with historical fact. What am I missing in this dialogue and this denial?
Whether history relates specifically to Fatima I've no idea. Is that your problem George?
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« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2009, 01:20:09 AM »

Dear ozgeorge,

You have mentioned:

"No. It isn't a "well known fact" that the that Rome wanted the "pious hearted Russians" (as opposed to those impious Arabs, Greeks, Australians, Americans, Asians etc). It is not a "well known fact" at all. It is simply something you personally believe to be true."

Do keep in mind that it is not right to import a meaning that was not part of my thinking into your rendition of what I was saying.

Actually in reality it is well known fact and is not something that I simply believe personally.

I see no point in any further conversation.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
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« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2009, 01:38:26 AM »

Matthew,

A well known fact?  The same splinter group kooks that are still hoping and praying for the conversion of Russia also claim that the Russia's consecration hasn't taken place yet and this is because the Pope's must not care about the Russians.

Fr. Deacon Lance
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« Reply #88 on: February 13, 2009, 01:39:31 AM »

our Orthodox Priest's will not abandon us

Matthew,
Our Orthodox Priests are capable of abandoning us, and this has been the case since the Early Church.
On June 9 we commemorate the Holy Nun Martyrs, Sts. Thecla, Mariamne, Martha, Mary, and Enmatha. They were Martyred in the 4th century after they refused to follow their Priest into idolatry. Before they were martyred, they spat in his face.

George
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« Reply #89 on: February 13, 2009, 07:53:20 AM »

How come I don't get an Amen? I said practically the same thing!

You don't have my good looks, Russian Convertness, and charm, George!  Grin
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